Levo Gen 2 Warranty extension & Firmware Update for all 2019/20 Levo/Kenevo with 2.1 motors

[TheBikePilot]

Have you got it in the top gear? It seems if the motor feels too much resistance you get the Red/Blue light..

 

[jimsydney2000]

Jim Sydney 2000 that's the exact same sound my bike started making a 2020 levo which had the motor replaced under warranty one month ago, but I'm not sure what the problem was. Others have posted videos with a similar sound and eventually the motors failed. It apparently is either due to a deterioration in the belt or the Sprague clutch, I have read on this forum.

Thanks Jeff, I just went and found the other posts, yes very similar and makes me concerned. Im hoping specialised ridercare might contribute some advice or suggestions to tell the local specialised shop to look at.

 

[windmill_81]

@Specialized Rider Care The latest software release makes "walking mode" completely useless. Love your products and have paid good money for them so I would like to have a perfectly working machine. Thank you.

 

[KennyB]

Works fine for me. It's walk assist, bit like pedal assist only works when you are pedaling.

 

[Jsmithjr732]

Works fine for me. It's walk assist, bit like pedal assist only works when you are pedaling.

Concern here is that walk assist is there to help when you can’t walk. I dunno...guess it could be seen the other way too. Nice to be able to hold the button and have it assist you up first.

 

[KennyB]

It does that, just got to admire the view for a wee bit.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Concern here is that walk assist is there to help when you can’t walk.

I'm not sure it's intended to be used when you can't walk ......

Boy this thread needs a clean out .. It's a sticky for questions and answers and is just full of unsubstantiated blabber .. and people asking the exact same question 6 times if they don't get an answer straight away .

 

[Matti]

Hi guys, galls and most of all @Specialized Rider Care,

I have had problems with my bike Turbo Levo 2019 pretty much since day one (March 2019). I have taken it to lbs many times and the power cable was once changed and updates have been made, but the problems haven't been rectified. I'm tired of taking the bike for guessing work at the lbs so I'm hoping for some guidance from you guys. The problems:
1. Sometimes the bike is stuck in trail mode and the controllers do not work
2. The bike turns on/off at will. Even during rides.
3. The bike won't turn off from the controller and I have to leave the charger port open to keep it from restarting.
4. It won't connect to Mission Control anymore. I have reinstalled the app, logged out and deleted the bike from my bikes. The app finds the bike but can't connect stating that the connection to the bike has been disconnected.
5. Water ingress is a real problem. I have been careful not getting it wet to the point that I'm neglecting washing it at all. Even though I have taken precautions of watering the electronics. When it rains badly enough the bike will shut down and wake up maybe 3 days later.

I love the bike when it works but I hate that I can't rely on it and am constantly nervous when taking it to rides.

Do you have any idea what single fault could be behind these problems? And before you say that pls check that all plugs are tightly secured, I have done that. I try to keep my bike well maintained but am no electronics engineer.

With kind regards,

Matti Vihiniemi from Finland

 

[salko]

It sounds like you have problems with TCU, try to get new TCU under warranty.

 

[Manxbiker]

Hi guys, galls and most of all @Specialized Rider Care,

I have had problems with my bike Turbo Levo 2019 pretty much since day one (March 2019). I have taken it to lbs many times and the power cable was once changed and updates have been made, but the problems haven't been rectified. I'm tired of taking the bike for guessing work at the lbs so I'm hoping for some guidance from you guys. The problems:
1. Sometimes the bike is stuck in trail mode and the controllers do not work
2. The bike turns on/off at will. Even during rides.
3. The bike won't turn off from the controller and I have to leave the charger port open to keep it from restarting.
4. It won't connect to Mission Control anymore. I have reinstalled the app, logged out and deleted the bike from my bikes. The app finds the bike but can't connect stating that the connection to the bike has been disconnected.
4. Water ingress is a real problem. I have been careful not getting it wet to the point that I'm neglecting washing it at all. Even though I have taken precautions of watering the electronics. When it rains badly enough the bike will shut down and wake up maybe 3 days later.

I love the bike when it works but I hate that I can't rely on it and am constantly nervous when taking it to rides.

Do you have any idea what single fault could be behind these problems? And before you say that pls check that all plugs are tightly secured, I have done that. I try to keep my bike well maintained but am no electronics engineer.

With kind regards,

Matti Vihiniemi from Finland

The issue you have with the bike turning itself on and not turning off unless you disconnect the battery is similar to what I had last week.
It was a faulty power cable that had cracked near the connection to the motor.

 

[Matti]

It sounds like you have problems with TCU, try to get new TCU under warranty.

Hi Salko,
Is it common practice that I tell the lbs what to do? I mean I have been tempted to ask for a new motor and all but always respected their protocol. I guess I could ask them to try but that would be in my expense if it still won't work...

The issue you have with the bike turning itself on and not turning off unless you disconnect the battery is similar to what I had last week.
It was a faulty power cable that had cracked near the connection to the motor.

Hello Manxbiker,
I have heard about that cord being the cause of a lot of pain, but for me replacement of that same thing last year did not fix the issue. The same errors happened on the first ride, but then again after that the bike worked quite well for a while. Could be that, but only part of the problem as should not affect e.g BT.

 

[salko]

Hi Salko,
Is it common practice that I tell the lbs what to do? I mean I have been tempted to ask for a new motor and all but always respected their protocol. I guess I could ask them to try but that would be in my expense if it still won't work...

No it's not common to tell them what to do, but it is also not common they have not fixed your problem since March 2019 ... To me it is pretty obvious that all problems 1-4 could be related to malfunctioned TCU and since it has not been replaced I would definitely try this next. If you can simply reproduce any of the problems then I would just ask them if they can temporary swap the TCU from another bike and you can try to reproduce the problem with different TCU and that way you will have you diagnosis done very quickly.

 

[Gordonrides]

Another hint: once the walk mode is correctly engaged, if you release the walk button and push it again, the bike starts soon at 6 km/h.
You can repeat it as many time as you like and the behavior lasts until push again on pedals (you can feel the disengagement if you pedal with an hand or in a quite environment). Always workaround but, at least, if you have to push, then have a rest, and push again, you don't have to repeat the "starting procedure"

WHen you lift the rear wheel to let it spin freely are you also pressing the walk assist button? Or just spin the wheel alone?

 

[Gordonrides]

Finally new motor on the way. God knows how long it’ll take to ship - hearing so many shipping horror stories. No idea on build date till it arrives.

My understanding is that the replacement motors are coming from a warehouse in Amsterdam, but I could be worng. Just hearsay.

 

[Pacific Ryder]

Thanks Jeff, I just went and found the other posts, yes very similar and makes me concerned. Im hoping specialised ridercare might contribute some advice or suggestions to tell the local specialised shop to look at.

Hi All, I love my 2020 Levo comp but as part of this thread I have some concerns.

The motor makes a nasty grinding / scratching noise when in Turbo and usually when I first get on the bike.

If you look closely at the video it stops once I change to trail mode.


Its starting to happen more frequently and occasionally in trail mode.

I have asked a couple of Specialised dealers and they say just bring it in for the firmware upgrade and it will sort it out.

Im concerned it might be a sign of future problems and the motor may require replacing.

Has anyone had a similar experience or know what it might be, or what to suggest at the Specialised LBS.

PS yes unfortunately the right hand side of the frame has a few nasty scratches.

I have a 2020 and on my second motor. My first failed after less than 3 months and 450 miles. My new motor started making that same grinding noises as yours around mile 300 which was right around the same time that the FW came out so I took to the dealer. After the update the grinding stopped. After another 100 miles, it's back.

Local shop said that something was definitely wrong but until it fails and grenades, there is nothing that they can do.... Not really the answer that I wanted to hear....now I don't have much confidence in this bike. Mechanic went on to admit that there are still motors failing even after the FW update. Fortunate for us this shop is committing to have motor inventory on hand and are moving all warranty work to one central location. What does that tell you? Failures are all too common and need individual attention and staff.

FYI for comparison, my friend just had his motor replaced and it took 8 days as did mine so in comparison, we have it pretty good.

1/2 tempted to sell and go with another brand but the combo of this motor and frame-set is just sooo capable.....when working. .

 

[James_C]

a noisy motor should be enough to start a warranty claim. I think your shop is mistaken.

I wish I'd had mine looked at earlier , hadnt realised how noisy it had got till I got a new one. Mine was just electrical whining though. didnt sound like it going wrong. Then the clutch failed, which was more obvious with the racket/no drive!

If you are particularly worried about a component you could always buy one as a spare to use whilst yours is fixed under warranty.

 

[Grannyjones]

I've done 1500 miles on my Turbo Levo 2020 Comp and the motor has yet to fail, I purchased it in May 2020 so I assume I've got one of the newer more reliable motors ?
I've heard the motors with the problems were failing at around 700 miles!
Do the motors fail without warning ? Do they appear to be working at 100% and then suddenly fail completely ? My biggest fear with motors has always been driving to somewhere 70 miles away only for the bikes motor to fail within the first few miles creating a wasted trip!

 

[salko]

Not neccesary, mine failed at 4kkm.

 

[Manxbiker]

I've done 1500 miles on my Turbo Levo 2020 Comp and the motor has yet to fail, I purchased it in May 2020 so I assume I've got one of the newer more reliable motors ?
I've heard the motors with the problems were failing at around 700 miles!
Do the motors fail without warning ? Do they appear to be working at 100% and then suddenly fail completely ? My biggest fear with motors has always been driving to somewhere 70 miles away only for the bikes motor to fail within the first few miles creating a wasted trip!

You won't have a newer motor in a 2020, I bought a levo in June 2020 and the motor date from 2019, you can find out the motor date in mission control

 

[Grannyjones]

I keep worrying about it failing every time I go out on it! (after reading so many reports) But so far it's worked perfectly.

I use Turbo mode a very lot, hardly ever use Eco unless its flat and easy, the routes are very hilly sometimes very rough & rocky and the bike has seen loads of mud and water in the washout 2020 summer round here

 

[MrSimmo]

I keep worrying about it failing every time I go out on it! (after reading so many reports) But so far it's worked perfectly.

I use Turbo mode a very lot, hardly ever use Eco unless its flat and easy, the routes are very hilly sometimes very rough & rocky and the bike has seen loads of mud and water in the washout 2020 summer round here

I wouldnt worry mate, I’ve done 1500 odd miles on my 2020 with a motor from 2019. Same weather here. Mines been fine so far.

I’m pretty sure with the vast majority of failures you can still ride the bike, you just wont get any assistance; so it would be a royal pain but you should get back ok. A lot of people report noises before it fails so chances are you should get back before it pops. Would ruin the ride but does give you an excuse to do the ride again ?

 

[Trax]

I have posted this already in a other thread but think this one is better attended.

I own a Levo carbon comp 19. First Motor died after 400km. Second Motor have 1200km and i have now nearly 100km on the new motor firmware 7.3.6.
My experience with new firmware on my hometrail (18km / 500m steep uphill / rocky fast downhill - flowtrail - some jumps)
- Support is nearly the same
- its noisy after 200m uphill but not that bad as the first motor, i think the update did nothing to noise, its the hardware.
- Some times motor disengage later after stop pedaling. Befor update i had this only in turbo, now i feel a late disengage in eco and trail. Some times it feels that motor dosent stop at all with no torque on pedals. Dont like that, its hard to change gear correct.
- I think i have more battery drop, abbout 10%, can that be? I ride the same round about 2 times a week, therefore have a very good comparison.
- The walk assist is poor now, there are stairs up i have to go, its the biggest noticable difference for me. Befor it was a very good walk assist, in low gears not to fast but very powerfull.

Overall, for me its a downgrade

 

[Vittorio]

WHen you lift the rear wheel to let it spin freely are you also pressing the walk assist button? Or just spin the wheel alone?

Pressing the button !

If you "help" the wheel to rotate, in order to speed up the two passages of the magnet in front of the speed sensor, doesn't work.
The motor has to "feel" some resistance.
If you rotate the wheel only one turn, the motor has to turn by itself the wheel other two turns.
If you keep on turning the wheel (for instance by hand or pushing the bike faster than the motor) after some seconds the crank stops and after a while you get an error.
The same error if you press the walk button on a steep terrain and the two passages don't take place before a given time.

 

[Vittorio]

To go along with what Zimmerfrane is saying, if you look at a discharge graph for a 3500mah 18650 lithium battery you will see that voltage decreases at pretty much a linear rate until around the last 20% of capacity where it starts dropping off sharply. Your perception of less power is therefore correct but is not due to software. It is a result of the battery not being able to supply a set voltage throughout the discharge.

View attachment 38724

Zimms suggestion of looking at the voltage and current will verify what you are "feeling".

A bit OT, but I hope this data can be interesting...
Regarding the discussion about the support drop at 15% and 5% and the voltage drop
Data collected during a single trip 3050m vertical drop
700 Wh battery, I always let the battery 1 minute before taking the screenshot (the battery recovers about 0,2V compared to the moment of the stop)

The voltage ranges from +15.5% to -7% referred to 36V nominal voltage at 5% battery remaining (always refer to nominal voltage)
The BMS never allows the battery to go under -12%. It would heat and damage the battery pack. Don't compare with a single cell without BMS. Maximum and minimum voltage are comparable to my old Yamaha 400 Wh e 500 Wh batteries.
In the graph you can see the curve is linear until 10% battery remaining, and the support drop is not due to a battery voltage drop.
The motor support was 15% when I got the support drop at 15% battery remaining, and I barely noticed; completely different when I was at 40% support (I looked back to see who was attached to my bike )

 

[Vittorio]

Specialized, the walk button is now not completely useless, but almost useless, yes.

I guess you start with a slow crank rotation to assure the bike never "walk" at more than 5 km/h, and wait for two magnet passages in order to calculate the crank/wheel rotation rate. After this initial transitory you know the ratio and thus the crank rotation speed needed to drive the bike at 5 km/h.

But you always know the crank/wheel ratio, when I'm pedaling normally (TCU knows cadence/speed)
So it's useless to wait for two magnet passages to calculate the ratio again .
The only case the ratio is unknown is if the bike is running free (for instance downhill) and the biker changes sprocket pedaling slowly, then stops and starts with the walk button.
Nevertheless in that case you know the ratio is unreliable since crank was rotating and motor not pushing (likewise the actual walk mode if I push the bike), and you will start the walk procedure.
In other cases, when the biker and the motor pushed until stop, or the bike runs freely and the crank is steady (both the most likely situations), you know the ratio and can avoid the initial transitory.

Maybe I'm missing something and be wrong, that's not my job.
But the "new" walk mode is a noticeable step backwards.

 

[Grannyjones]

I have a 2020 Levo purchased in May 2020...

The Walk assist has been rubbish from new.

Never updated the firmware as it's never been back in the bike shop since.

When pressed it does nothing at first, most of the time! Then kicks in intermittently at varying levels of torque.

On all the Demo Bikes I tried (2019 Levo and Kenevo) the Walk assist was great yet on my bike it's crap.

 

[jimsydney2000]

Hi All,

I had the firmware update done and it does feel a little down on power. The grinding noise has got a lot quieter which is good but it is still there. Since I mainly ride in eco and trail where there isnt a problem, my LBS recommends waiting until there is a problem and then we get it sorted. Also he pointed out I still have 3.5 years warranty, so Im pretty well protected what ever the outcome. Like everyone else Im just a little weary of having a long push home at some stage. So we will wait and see what happens.
On the flip side Im still riding 4 times per week so things are not too bad.

 

[VOOBOY]

@Specialized Rider Care, any plans to deliver the firmware update through mission control?

 

[galaga187]

Had my motor replaced by a well known shop. First ride out noticed what sounded like a loose pebble inside the motor casing. After riding downhill it would stop for a bit - I eventually realised it was in the lowest gears the outside of the chain catching chainguide as the shiny new washer is a bit too thick.

 

[NIBW]

Just spoke with the LBS, they got the motor in last week but now the service manager left the shop and they can’t tell me when they might fix. Almost a month in the shop and not clear what I’m waiting on and less clarity of when it’ll be done. This is normally a very reputable shop.
Timeline has been.
Aug 19-25 just to run diagnostic and tell me motor is bad
Aug 26 - Sept 4 warranty claim and shipment of motor
Sept 5 - ? Wait for shop manager to return to work unknown
Ugh...