Levo Gen 2 Warranty extension & Firmware Update for all 2019/20 Levo/Kenevo with 2.1 motors

[salko]

Still they cannot just reduce funcionality of the bike by lifting support reduction limit from 15 to 30%, this is a huge difference.

 

[Vittorio]

My walk mode function has proved useless as well. I really missed it on some really long pushes last Sunday. I initially thought it started working normally after a 10 second wait but that proved to be wrong. However happy to report that Vittorio's workaround of lifting the rear wheel to spin free in the air activates walk mode after five seconds every single time on my bike. I don't mind waiting five seconds for it to work. This is a great workaround that everyone should try. I first read about this while catching up on this thread yesterday but didn't have a chance to try it until today. Very happy to use this workaround until specialized fixes the glitch.

Another hint: once the walk mode is correctly engaged, if you release the walk button and push it again, the bike starts soon at 6 km/h.
You can repeat it as many time as you like and the behavior lasts until push again on pedals (you can feel the disengagement if you pedal with an hand or in a quite environment). Always workaround but, at least, if you have to push, then have a rest, and push again, you don't have to repeat the "starting procedure"

 

[Vittorio]

A pedelec regulatory change.

Mike, do you have a link to that regulatory change?
because I'm not able to find anything on the web
especially regarding the >10" before the normal speed
Are we sure 10" slow motion is set by Pedelec or did Specialized exceeded?

 

[Mikerb]

I am only repeating what Spesh Rider Care has given as the reason for the change. (earlier in this thread)

 

[Vittorio]

I'm still on the older firmware, but I notice a drop in support once the battery hits 30%

That doesn't sound right, according to manual support reduction starts from 15% battery remaining...

Pyr0, I agree.
No drop until 15% battery remaining, at that point big drop.
Not sure if there is another minor drop at 10%
For sure there is another drop at 5%, but the motor is still pushing: no need to check the motor power in MC, only try to go to zero support....
At 5% you are pushing as an old muscolar bike and the support just compensate the weight and the higher gear rate (feeling)

 

[salko]

I think from 15-1% you get more or less linear drop of motor support, at 1% motor suport is turned off completely and remaining battery is used only to keep TCU alive.

 

[Vittorio]

I think from 15-1% you get more or less linear drop of motor support, at 1% motor suport is turned off completely and remaining battery is used only to keep TCU alive.

I don't know if the drop is linear since 15% battery remaining, but at 5% you can notice (if you are pushing hard) another perceivable sudden drop.

 

[Eduardoramundo]

No idea, I don't plan on taking it apart. Warranty job.

Does that matter though - its a 2020 bike so we know its possibly got the motor fault weaknesses already well known.

The motor date is available via the app. I just wondered if it was one of the “new” motors.

 

[Jeff McD]

Thanks for that second tip on the walk mode workaround, Victoria. Was wondering if pushing on the pedals would affect the workaround and now I know. Nice job figuring out an effective workaround for us.

 

[Zimmerframe]

On the walk mode front, still no one seems to have worked out what the actual difference is ? To get you started :

This is a 1.3 motor rather than a 2.1. Walk mode slowly rises (over a couple of seconds) to 110w and then stays there.

Once you get to about 5km/h it drops back the power and keeps dropping back if the speed doesn't reduce (ie, walk mode pressed going downhill)

Maybe someone can do this on pre-firmware update and post firmware update bikes ?

Likewise, if you're claiming that assistance drops off at 30% battery, you need some evidence of this at 35%, 30%, 25%, 20%, 15%, 10%, 5% otherwise it's just hearsay.

 

[Eduardoramundo]

On the walk mode front, still no one seems to have worked out what the actual difference is ? To get you started :

This is a 1.3 motor rathet than a 2.1. Walk mode slowly rises (over a couple of seconds) to 110w and then stays there.

View attachment 38603

Once you get to about 5km/h it drops back the power and keeps dropping back if the speed doesn't reduce (ie, walk mode pressed going downhill)

View attachment 38604

Maybe someone can do this on pre-firmware update and post firmware update bikes ?

Likewise, if you're claiming that assistance drops off at 30% battery, you need some evidence of this at 35%, 30%, 25%, 20%, 15%, 10%, 5% otherwise it's just hearsay.

Its defo just hearsay. I rode mine down to 11% battery on 7.3.6 with no loss of power. Power reduction normally kicks in at 9%.

Walk mode is no worse than the old firmware once you have got passed the initial 10 seconds wait.

 

[eagerly]

On the walk mode front, still no one seems to have worked out what the actual difference is ? To get you started :

This is a 1.3 motor rather than a 2.1. Walk mode slowly rises (over a couple of seconds) to 110w and then stays there.

View attachment 38603

Once you get to about 5km/h it drops back the power and keeps dropping back if the speed doesn't reduce (ie, walk mode pressed going downhill)

View attachment 38604

Maybe someone can do this on pre-firmware update and post firmware update bikes ?

Likewise, if you're claiming that assistance drops off at 30% battery, you need some evidence of this at 35%, 30%, 25%, 20%, 15%, 10%, 5% otherwise it's just hearsay.

Actually the evidence is in the manual: no need to claim anything...this is for the 2019 levo:

 

[Zimmerframe]

Actually the evidence is in the manual: no need to claim anything...this is for the 2019 levo:
View attachment 38625

Well done, glad to see you're on the same page as the rest of us.

Ok, so we'll ignore that there's a firmware update and we'll ignore that the 2019 manual doesn't automatically update itself using quantum layering, we'll also ignore that some people have reported reduced assistance at 30% and 20%, so we can ignore my suggestion for people to test it - using mission control - to see what it's really doing, either for their own peace of mind or so we actually have something real to talk about..

Phew, that makes life so much easier.

 

[Vittorio]

On the walk mode front, still no one seems to have worked out what the actual difference is ? To get you started :
This is a 1.3 motor rather than a 2.1. Walk mode slowly rises (over a couple of seconds) to 110w and then stays there.
Once you get to about 5km/h it drops back the power and keeps dropping back if the speed doesn't reduce (ie, walk mode pressed going downhill)
Maybe someone can do this on pre-firmware update and post firmware update bikes ?

Likewise, if you're claiming that assistance drops off at 30% battery, you need some evidence of this at 35%, 30%, 25%, 20%, 15%, 10%, 5% otherwise it's just hearsay.

Eagerly posted an official answer to the second question.

About the first one, to get out of hearsay, I made some experiences (Mag 2.1 and 7.3.6 firmware).
With rear wheel in free air, before engaging the normal walk mode (about 5 km/h) it seems the speed sensor waits for 2 passages of the magnet (I made a dozen of trials and got always the same result)
So the initial time depends on the actual position of the magnet and the selected gear.
On 42T if the magnet is just before the sensor, the normal speed is reached in about 9", if the magnet has just passed the speed sendor it takes about 18".
On 11T and the magnet just before the speed sensor I timed 3" (but, with such a gear it's difficult distinguish the exact instant between slow and normal mode)

If the bike is on the terrain, on 42T, and there is any resistance, and the magnet has just passed the speed sensor, sometimes a time limit is reached before the speed sensor detects 2 magnet passages. The walk mode stops and after few seconds you get a speed sensor error (red led and the blue just below).
Initially I got it at least 3 times, trying to find explanation to different behaviours (different engaging times, sometimes sudden engaging, sometimes error ... )

10" is not a constant time, but probably you will use the walk mode when you can't climb any more and you are in the lowest gear, so 9-18" depending on the position of the magnet.
I agree: after the initial low speed transitory, the walk mode is the same as before.
But I don't like to be bound to manually "fit" the speed sensor just before the sensor (third tip ) and wait 9" lifting the rear wheel, before the normal walk mode engages.

I checked the Pedelec site Motor Vehicle Regulation for safer Cycling | ECF , this page and others and didn't find any rule about walk mode, neither on the web.
I'd like to know the original statement of this new rule, if anybody can help ...

 

[Vittorio]

Maybe walk mode starts slow, waiting for 2 passages of the magnet in front of the speed sensor, in order to allow the software to calculate the actual gear ratio, and then drive the bike at 5 km/h ?

 

[Vittorio]

Following my previous hypothesis I tried to "accelerate" the initial transitory speeding up 2 wheel rotation by hand: no way, it waits for his rotations.
I tried to continuously rotate the wheel by hand: after some seconds pedals stops!
So I think the software wants to "feel" resistance, in order to be sure you don't push the bike, and know the actual gear (or, better, the actual speed with the actual gear)

 

[Zimmerframe]

Thanks @Vittorio.

It's like someone sitting behind a desk somewhere, who needed to feel important, felt like they had to insist that "walk assistance" had to be changed so that it would only assist you once you were walking. They then determined walking to be having moved the bike 5 meters unassisted.

I can't see any reason Spesh would just make this change on their own.

It's unlikely that walk mode, without pushing the bike, breaks motors or sucks the life out of batteries. Walk modes are generally crap and don't work properly anyway and are so buggy they hardly ever work properly. If I use mine anywhere but on the flat, you have to re-start the bike to get assistance again because of some random walk mode bug (or regulation.......).

It's an unusual thing to change if you don't have to.

From your latest test, does that mean if you press and hole WALK... then push the bike for 5 meters / 2 revolutions .. it doesn't assist because it wants resistance ? not help ?

 

[Jeff McD]

Well perhaps everybody's bike is different, but I have never had to wait longer than five seconds for walk mode to kick in at full speed after lifting the rear wheel while pressing the button. Never absolutely never had to wait 18 seconds or even nine seconds.

 

[Vittorio]

Thanks @Vittorio.

It's like someone sitting behind a desk somewhere, who needed to feel important, felt like they had to insist that "walk assistance" had to be changed so that it would only assist you once you were walking. They then determined walking to be having moved the bike 5 meters unassisted.

I can't see any reason Spesh would just make this change on their own.

It's unlikely that walk mode, without pushing the bike, breaks motors or sucks the life out of batteries. Walk modes are generally crap and don't work properly anyway and are so buggy they hardly ever work properly. If I use mine anywhere but on the flat, you have to re-start the bike to get assistance again because of some random walk mode bug (or regulation.......).

It's an unusual thing to change if you don't have to.

From your latest test, does that mean if you press and hole WALK... then push the bike for 5 meters / 2 revolutions .. it doesn't assist because it wants resistance ? not help ?

Yes, you're right: if you push the bike (faster than the motor push) while pressing walk button, after some seconds (or pedal rotation, I don't know) pedals stop rotating, and if you keep the walk button pressed you will get an error.

 

[Vittorio]

Well perhaps everybody's bike is different, but I have never had to wait longer than five seconds for walk mode to kick in at full speed after lifting the rear wheel while pressing the button. Never absolutely never had to wait 18 seconds or even nine seconds.

On 42T sproket?
7.3.6 firmware?
I hope the behaviour is not varying from bike to bike.

 

[Wat WATT]

On 42T sproket?
7.3.6 firmware?
I hope the behaviour is not varying from bike to bike.

I just updated today, before reading this thread. I wouldn‘t if read before. Is there a way to go back to prev. FirmwAre. 6.1??

 

[Mcharza]

I just updated today, before reading this thread. I wouldn‘t if read before. Is there a way to go back to prev. FirmwAre. 6.1??

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation.

Keep riding your bike and keep four year warranty or downgrade and walk with your bike and get the two year warranty

 

[Wat WATT]

Lol

 

[Andy A]

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation.

Keep riding your bike and keep four year warranty or downgrade and walk with your bike and get the two year warranty

If you read an early post from Specialized rider care on this thread he clearly states that you don't have to have the firmware update to get the extended warranty, the warranty is valid from your purchase date, I am an 8 hour round trip to get back to Chris at Berkshire Cycles and I have put off that trip due to people having some problems when the update had been done, there is no way I want to drive 470 miles twice so I will wait until they have got this update spot on but in the meantime my motor warranty is now 4 years.

 

[Manxbiker]

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation.

Keep riding your bike and keep four year warranty or downgrade and walk with your bike and get the two year warranty

You get the 4 year warranty with whatever firmware you are on ?

 

[eagerly]

Well done, glad to see you're on the same page as the rest of us.

Ok, so we'll ignore that there's a firmware update and we'll ignore that the 2019 manual doesn't automatically update itself using quantum layering, we'll also ignore that some people have reported reduced assistance at 30% and 20%, so we can ignore my suggestion for people to test it - using mission control - to see what it's really doing, either for their own peace of mind or so we actually have something real to talk about..

Phew, that makes life so much easier.

So in your opinion, at every fw update the manual should be updated? Someone can talk about sensations, I was talking about design, please choose what you prefer no problem. Personally, I found that my motor updated to the latest FW works according to the design.
Your irony is really out of proportion here.

 

[Zimmerframe]

So in your opinion, at every fw update the manual should be updated? Someone can talk about sensations, I was talking about design

I wasn't saying that. I was saying that different people have reported different results in this thread AFTER the firmware update and trying to get people to actually check this using Mission Control. Saying that isn't the case because the 2019 manual says different, when in the same thread we have a walk mode which works differently to the manual and a 4 year warranty, which is different to what it says in the manual - pretty much means that you can't say "it says it in the 2019 manual" as proof as to what something is or isn't.

 

[eagerly]

I wasn't saying that. I was saying that different people have reported different results in this thread AFTER the firmware update and trying to get people to actually check this using Mission Control. Saying that isn't the case because the 2019 manual says different, when in the same thread we have a walk mode which works differently to the manual and a 4 year warranty, which is different to what it says in the manual - pretty much means that you can't say "it says it in the 2019 manual" as proof as to what something is or isn't.

I think that Specialized ,after the FW update should at least have included in the changelog this important modification to the logic! Instead they reported only modification to the power erogation and the walk mode, which is pretty easy to verify directly without the MC. And since I found the behaviour of my motor, updated to the latest firmware, not changed in regard to what we are talking, I prefer to think that these are only "sensations". Regarding the walk mode, the new firmware does not violate the design either, since the manuial reports:

 

[#lazy]

I had the motor run on issue while in turbo again today , would’ve gone on and on but stopped when braked . Don’t think it’s had the new update cos the walk assist is fine , does the update fix this or is it a new motor ? Ps wrist/hand is good now

 

[Murch]

I had the motor run on issue while in turbo again today , would’ve gone on and on but stopped when braked . Don’t think it’s had the new update cos the walk assist is fine , does the update fix this or is it a new motor ? Ps wrist/hand is good now ☺

You can stop the run on by back pedaling just a little bit and the motor will stop instant. Not a proper fix but works instead of relying on brakes.