Vitus E-Mythique LT Enduro EMTB - Bargain of the year

[Jimmylowblow]

Great video Neeko. Made it look easy. If I get a beest tool, how easy is it to get a log in?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Great video Neeko. Made it look easy. If I get a beest tool, how easy is it to get a log in?

Apologies for the delay Jimmy.
I have been told by others that it is getting increasingly more difficult to set up an account with Bafang to use the BESST Tool.

I set mine up near 2 years ago, in anticipation of building up the Dengfu E10. But it wasn't straight forward.

Whilst I'm a bit guarded about my own account details. I have seen some who have passed on account details to besst tool owners.

Alternatively, some distributors of the BESST Tool have provided their own account details to allow the buyer access to the software.
GBK (Green Bike Kits) did at one point. But I'm not sure if they still do.

It's worth asking. So I'll update the thread, if they say yay or nay

 

[Jimmylowblow]

Apologies for the delay Jimmy.
I have been told by others that it is getting increasingly more difficult to set up an account with Bafang to use the BESST Tool.

I set mine up near 2 years ago, in anticipation of building up the Dengfu E10. But it wasn't straight forward.

Whilst I'm a bit guarded about my own account details. I have seen some who have passed on account details to besst tool owners.

Alternatively, some distributors of the BESST Tool have provided their own account details to allow the buyer access to the software.
GBK (Green Bike Kits) did at one point. But I'm not sure if they still do.

It's worth asking. So I'll update the thread, if they say yay or nay

That would be good. Ordered a tool off ebay tonight. I'm interested in increasing the power of the R mode to 500.

 

[Dado]

Hello Jimmy. That 500 you mean support level parameter, right? It is sensitivity to pedalling. If you set to 500% it will be more like on/off. As even with low input to pedals you will be getting max set power from motor. Some people like it this way, some not.

With K1 Flash you do not have any issues with passwords.

 

[Jimmylowblow]

Hey, I mean the assistant percentage. From your video R seems to be at 400 and can be increased to 500.

 

[CarolinaCrawler]

Can't wait to see the video comparing the BESST pro and Go+. If Go+ will do everything the BESST tool will do it'll save the login headache.

 

[Dado]

Yes, Assistance percentage, they have renamed in latest Besst. I have to start naming it assistance. Default Bafang setting is 340%, Vitus put it on 400%. With this settings you wont get more power though.

 

[Dado]

Can't wait to see the video comparing the BESST pro and Go+. If Go+ will do everything the BESST tool will do it'll save the login headache.

In Go+ is still missing Assistance level - and this is what is the best about M510. You can set it as Bosch. Many people were complaining motor has high power and you do not need even to push into pedals.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hey, I mean the assistant percentage. From your video R seems to be at 400 and can be increased to 500.

Yes. I am now running the E-Mythique level 5 (Race Mode) at 500% with acceleration set to 6. Naturally, the over-run feature has increased. But This Is only for the highest level of assist

 

[jezhumphrey75]

on offer again at 2500.....kinda put off with all the broken ones on ebay though.

 

[Zimmerframe]

on offer again at 2500.....kinda put off with all the broken ones on ebay though.

I think you have to remember that they :

A: probably sold sh1tloads as it was cheap.

B: a large proportion of buyers would have been first time EMTB owners without experience.

With B - a large proportion of those (as it was winter) will have been jet washing the crap out of the bikes and also probably didn't cable check the bikes first to make sure all the connections were good. Though there did seem to be a lot of people with moisture issues with the switch and the display - still had zero issues with mine despite it being drowned several times, but then I generally don't wet wash if it can be avoided and then it's only sprinkled, plus I thoroughly dry it.

 

[namastebuzz]

on offer again at 2500..

There's also 10% off with the code EXTRA10 so now they're £2339.

 

[Zimmerframe]

@CarolinaCrawler

Bafang E bike battery lock | eBay

<p>From a 2023 Vitus Mythique LT E bike</p><br /><p>Fits bafang battery which is used in conjunction with M510 motor</p><br /><p>Any questions please let me know </p>

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Zimmerframe]

He also has a motor, speed sensor, cranks and the lower battery mount/connections ..

Items for sale by retrobikestuff | eBay

Shop eBay for great deals from retrobikestuff!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Just as I thought!!

A 32t chainring works better on the E-Mythique LT compared to the 34t.

I'll obviously use a better chainring, as this one cost me £7 (alloy chainring NOT STEEL). But the mechanical advantage (in conjunction with the parameter amendments of the M510 motor), have definitely improved the bike's performance. Both responsiveness, low end grunt and workable cadence to achieve motor power.

Obviously, swapping the drivetrain has helped aswell (couldn't get along with the Microshift stuff).

Nothing to fancy. But a work horse of a derailleur for ebikes.

Anywho, I'll happily share my findings and experiences with you all so ride safe everyone.

FYI,

118 links for the chain

 

[Zimmerframe]

A 32t chainring works better on the E-Mythique LT compared to the 34t.

How so ?

The motor already cuts out at a cadence of 120.

It already responds poorly at higher cadences compared to other motors, dropping its power delivery rather than increasing it.

The motor works best in the midrange. Dropping the chainring size means you're at a higher cadence more frequently and you're also using all the smaller gears in the cassette more frequently which will lead to considerably faster cassette wear.

Might be ok on a Levo SL or a M820 bike.

Sorry Nicho, but this just sounds like your usual BS where you spout out useless information and never back anything up with any facts - it's tiresome.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Sorry Nicho, but this just sounds like your usual BS where you spout out useless information and never back anything up with any facts - it's tiresome.

...As always Zimms, it's a pleasure to bump paths with you the forum....again!!

It's up to you if you want to believe that I'm bullsh**ing you. I won't waste your time (or mine), convincing you otherwise.

Because 'clearly', you have access TO THIS!!!

So perhaps I'll take my leave from this thread, thus preventing a further........exchanging of option.

FYI, it's "Neeko"

 

[skismith]

@Neeko DeVinchi when my son had this bike, it was underpowered on climbs compared to the Bosch and both the 48v Fc02 and Fc01 510’s I own. We didn’t get into changing assistance / acceleration % before it went back under warranty.

As you have some experience adjusting the settings, what your take on this comparison if you up the settings- can the 36v 510 in the Vitus compete?

cheers

 

[Waynemarlow]

It already responds poorly at higher cadences compared to other motors, dropping its power delivery rather than increasing it.

Could that be more down to the rider not able to transmit force onto the pedals at higher cadences ? Certainly I don't find that at all and if the power curves are to be believed, then that should not be the case. You yourself claim the M510 works better at mid cadences, it maybe valuable for you to be able to log and see actually what torque you yourself are inputting at mid and high cadences. I would suspect you maybe dissapointed in your performance at higher cadences, its rare for older gents to be able to spin above 90rpm with loads of torque, genetics and age are against us.

My limited amount of riding on the Brose and Bosch Gen 4 motors are its they that are the mid range addicts, quite punchy at low cadences and then flattening off really early which leads the riders to think they are powerful motors. We recently had a drag race up a long tarmac based climb that just gets steeper and steeper with a Brose, Gen 4 and M510. The M510 was the winner by some way. But then was that the rider was fitter, better rolling tyres, better gearing, there are so many other variables.

We need actual dynometer readings before I would be convinced of a lot of the noise here on this forum

 

[Zimmerframe]

Could that be more down to the rider not able to transmit force onto the pedals at higher cadences ? Certainly I don't find that at all and if the power curves are to be believed, then that should not be the case. You yourself claim the M510 works better at mid cadences, it maybe valuable for you to be able to log and see actually what torque you yourself are inputting at mid and high cadences. I would suspect you maybe dissapointed in your performance at higher cadences, its rare for older gents to be able to spin above 90rpm with loads of torque, genetics and age are against us.

My limited amount of riding on the Brose and Bosch Gen 4 motors are its they that are the mid range addicts, quite punchy at low cadences and then flattening off really early which leads the riders to think they are powerful motors. We recently had a drag race up a long tarmac based climb that just gets steeper and steeper with a Brose, Gen 4 and M510. The M510 was the winner by some way. But then was that the rider was fitter, better rolling tyres, better gearing, there are so many other variables.

We need actual dynometer readings before I would be convinced of a lot of the noise here on this forum

The power graphs for most motors are fabricated/estimated. The Vitus M510 one isn't a true representation. The shapes are incorrect and on the positive, it actually puts out more power than stated.

I repeat tested the brose/bosch/M510 and the M510 was always the slowest on back to back climbs when ridden similarly - despite being the fastest on paper and what it should be like based on it's peak amps (though a brose 1.3 with 5.0.4 or above will be pulling 20 amps which is higher - a brose 2.1/2.2 will be less as they knocked the power down). The Gen4 is very willing in it's power delivery all through the range if you're putting in reasonable rider power - but lacks overall power compared to the Brose and the M510.

There's an anomaly on N510 how they've programmed it to respond to rider power and cadence used. The more power and higher cadence you put in, it generally backs off the power it gives out (great for range). You can see it if you watch the power meter in go/the display when you're climbing hard - push harder and the power goes down. Ease off slightly and the power goes up !!! Keeps you going at a consistent rate when you tire which is quite nice.

That said, you can get it to still perform. I finally beat some of my own Kenevo climb records on the Mythique, it's just learning how much power to apply and at what cadence (by using the display to work out when it's feeding you peak power). High cadences it's awful if you want maximum assistance - though obviously if you're strong and fit, there's a good chance you can hit an optimum point where the rider power means you're still going really fast rather than relying on just the motor and turbo surfing.

 

[Zimmerframe]

We need actual dynometer readings before I would be convinced of a lot of the noise here on this forum

We keep talking about Dyno's. It would be nice. Bearing man was going to build one but didn't get round to it.

You still have the problem of real world responses though, so even a dyno won't tell you how the motor will respond when you're actually using it, only how it should in theory.

I tried real world dynoing the Bosch, brose, M510 on the same mini loop/climb descend to get an average (go as hard/fast as you can in both directions) - short enough that other factors hopefully wouldn't come into play and not on the same day. Using Strava, so not accurate, but hopefully good for comparisons when used in the same circumstances.

The Bosch test :

The Brose test :

I crashed the next day going fun fast and fractured my sternum, so never did the M510 test.

Different riders will all have different experiences though as we all ride in different ways and have different expectations - the most important thing is just enjoying your bike and not getting into an arms race of "what might be better".

I still enjoy the E-Mythique/M510 the most.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

@Neeko DeVinchi when my son had this bike, it was underpowered on climbs compared to the Bosch and both the 48v Fc02 and Fc01 510’s I own. We didn’t get into changing assistance / acceleration % before it went back under warranty.

As you have some experience adjusting the settings, what your take on this comparison if you up the settings- can the 36v 510 in the Vitus compete?

cheers

It's difficult to say at this point @skismith . Usually, I prefer to have concrete data to verify any facts if I'm comparing.
The only Bosch Gen4 emtb which I have (which is rideable as I'm awaiting for parts on a side project build) is my Whyte E150 which has been set up as a mullet E160.

Myself and my two cousins did do a weekend ride recently and with my E-Mythique, Megawatt and E160 which we swapped between all three. From what they claimed, it was more circumstances on the trail which they noticed strengths and weaknesses between the M510, EP801 and Bosch Gen4. But discrepancies existed between the three bikes and I had no way of measuring either motor and the performance.

E.g. all three bikes use 36v 630wh batteries. The Bosch Gen4 battery seemed to have the least amount of percentage left after our ride. But the bike was predominantly used in EMTB Mode. Whereas the EP801 was used in Trail and the M510 ranged between level 2, 3 & 4. Notwithstanding, the tyres, gearing, wheelset, hub engagement, weight of each bike, geometry etc, all varied.

If I were to simply go off feeling and base my opinion on which motor was the best using the Megawatt, E-Mythique and E160 for consistent predictable power, I would say the EP801. For raw power, perhaps the Bosch Gen4. But I couldn't say that the M510 powered by a 36v battery was that lacking, that it wasn't able to keep up. Especially, when you're in the right gear and cadence.

But again, too many discrepancies between the bikes. So at this stage, I can't provide concrete or factual evidence to validate that the M510 (powered by a 36v battery) can contend with the Bosch Gen4, Brose, Yamaha, Shimano etc.

What I can say is that changing the parameters of the M510 motor on the E-Mythique and going to a 32t chainring, has improved the bike's performance. Considering, my XL bike weights a bit over 26kg. Giving the bike a mechanical advantage and raising the acceleration and assistance for all levels of assist and reducing the startup angle, has allowed the bike to engage quicker from standstill and maintain speed and watts without any sudden spikes or dips in terms of power, speed and battery consumption.

Essentially, I've made the bike more efficient

 

[Waynemarlow]

Be interesting for you to get yourself onto say a Zwift static setup where both cadence and power output is measured accurately and recorded. I was a tad dissapointed to say the least how little power I could maintain at anything above 90rpm. Sure short bursts but anything prolonged forget it.

Sorry I just do not buy into people doing loops on various bikes to dyno test motors, there are just too many variables to be anything like accurate to openly state those results on a forum.

Going back a stage with 32T v 34T have you guys worked out just how much the 25kph cut off effects the gearing. There is no point having gearing that will reach 40kph if you yourself cannot pedal to that speed on the flat.

 

[skismith]

It's difficult to say at this point @skismith . Usually, I prefer to have concrete data to verify any facts if I'm comparing.
The only Bosch Gen4 emtb which I have (which is rideable as I'm awaiting for parts on a side project build) is my Whyte E150 which has been set up as a mullet E160.

Myself and my two cousins did do a weekend ride recently and with my E-Mythique, Megawatt and E160 which we swapped between all three. From what they claimed, it was more circumstances on the trail which they noticed strengths and weaknesses between the M510, EP801 and Bosch Gen4. But discrepancies existed between the three bikes and I had no way of measuring either motor and the performance.

E.g. all three bikes use 36v 630wh batteries. The Bosch Gen4 battery seemed to have the least amount of percentage left after our ride. But the bike was predominantly used in EMTB Mode. Whereas the EP801 was used in Trail and the M510 ranged between level 2, 3 & 4. Notwithstanding, the tyres, gearing, wheelset, hub engagement, weight of each bike, geometry etc, all varied.

If I were to simply go off feeling and base my opinion on which motor was the best using the Megawatt, E-Mythique and E160 for consistent predictable power, I would say the EP801. For raw power, perhaps the Bosch Gen4. But I couldn't say that the M510 powered by a 36v battery was that lacking, that it wasn't able to keep up. Especially, when you're in the right gear and cadence.

But again, too many discrepancies between the bikes. So at this stage, I can't provide concrete or factual evidence to validate that the M510 (powered by a 36v battery) can contend with the Bosch Gen4, Brose, Yamaha, Shimano etc.

What I can say is that changing the parameters of the M510 motor on the E-Mythique and going to a 32t chainring, has improved the bike's performance. Considering, my XL bike weights a bit over 26kg. Giving the bike a mechanical advantage and raising the acceleration and assistance for all levels of assist and reducing the startup angle, has allowed the bike to engage quicker from standstill and maintain speed and watts without any sudden spikes or dips in terms of power, speed and battery consumption.

Essentially, I've made the bike more efficient

 

[skismith]

Some good info there, I’d be interested to know if the 36v version m510 has the same performance as the 48v . The current required for the 36v must be significantly higher as battery voltage drops due to range. This must impare the the 36v motor more .

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

More than likely @skismith . Increasing voltage usually increases efficiency in terms of flow of energy from battery to motor.

Although on a personal note, I am curious whether the BTF16 630wh battery can still discharge at -20°

 

[Zimmerframe]

Oh Lordy ..

It begins again .. Neeko thinks he has an audience ..

This is merely a warning from experience. Ignore it if you like.

For those who haven't been through this countless times before, he will use big words he doesn't understand. He will promise the world, and not deliver. He will post pictures and images and wow the world with - actually nothing you haven't seen before ..

Whilst I have every respect for him, and wish he'd focus his energies and abilities (which he has many) to actually answering questions with an answer.... and using his own abilities to develop knowledge rather than just self promotion. He doesn't. Each time we go through this, it's the same ..

The Myth is a great bike. Don't then be drawn into BS land.

@Neeko DeVinchi do some useful testing and provide some useful results. PLEASE ! for once ! Take this as an opportunity !

 

[namastebuzz]

E Mythique is now 38% or 39% off at CRC.

Plus another 10% off with the code EXTRA10.


So the VRX is now £2430 , the VRS is £2160 and the VR was £1800 but think it's out of stock...

 

[Waynemarlow]

It begins again .. Neeko thinks he has an audience ..

Hey Zim, has Neeko stepped on your patch or something, bit harsh, I thought this was a free forum where people can state what they like and peer reviews will either debunk or condone such witterings.

Guys be a little careful with gearing and gut feelings. Think of how torque is either magnified or not by changing the front ring. In the case of the 34T v 32T debate by fitting a 32T ring you will increase ever so slightly the torque of the tyre when it hits the turf of each individual gear on the cassette. Just a small amount mind you ( about 6% increase ) but you will sacrifice speed over the ground ( higher gearing ) of each ring.

Now to compensate that speed drop you have to increase the cadence slightly, pushing the motor into a higher rpm where it may or may not be more efficient and feel to the rider, working better. Is this the percieved gut feeling Neeko was referring to.

I always maintain that you should use every gear on a ride, most have now around 10T -50T cassettes on board which means if we start to get all technical and use a gear chart we quickly see that using a 34T front ring on a 10 tooth rear, you can hit about 42kph @90rpm cadence. On a 32T front ring 38kph @ 90rpm and on a 30T 35kph @90 cadence. Can I ask the question then, how many of you can cycle at 42kph for any length of time on the flat with no motor support ( regulated to 25kph here in the EU, 32Kph in most of the US ) ?

For anyone who wants to delve into and properly understand what gearing does for you and your bike the calculator below is great tool

Ritzelrechner - Graphical Gear Calculator for Bicycles

The bicycle gear calculator displays graphically the gearing of derailleur gears and gear hubs. It can be used to compare different setups to find the optimal gearing for all kinds of bicycles.

www.gear-calculator.com

 

[blacklab14]

Anyone else having trouble taking the battery out?

Mine gets really stiff and really difficult to take out, any ideas how to help this?