Update the EP 801 RS with the “classic” SHIMANO EP 801 (RISE 2025) ?

[Backflip]

Ok. Thanks.

Once ive made the changes using the eMax app, will the new values be reflected on the e-tube app as well?

Di you have any idea how the battery will be impacted by the changes

Sure the new values like e.g. max. torque range of up to 85Nm will be reflected in the E-Tube-Project software also, because you then can increase the individual torque values up to this limit.

If you will increase max. torque range and individual torque values and/or max. peak power, this for sure can drain your battery faster.
So I suggest to use the increased values e.g. only in Boost mode on one profile, so you can still save battery energy in Eco and Trail, but you can get full power and torque if you need it (e. g. on stiff hill climbs).
Some owners of Orbea Rise and Urrun bikes use the range extender for longer trips.
However, take care: There are some early production range extenders which are not capable to deliver the max. current which is necessary for max. peak power and max. torque, especially if their level is already low.
So in this case the range extender may power off the bike.
This is no problem at all and will not harm your bike or battery and you instantly can power on the bike again, but for sure may be annoying.
To prevent such a situation with such an early production range extender, either try to get a new range extender or just don´t use max. levels (like Boost mode) when using the range extender and the level of the range extender is quite low. Just use a lower setting for motor assistance in this case.
Maybe also this post can be interesting for you.

 

[BAh30]

Hi, How do i get a license key..

 

[Backflip]

Hi, How do i get a license key..

Please read the information on the eMax-Tuning website and the included documents and links and then send an email with your electronic bike data to the guys from eMax via this email address.

 

[BAh30]

Me again.

Any chance you have hands on experience with de restricting a ep6 rs? I know now what i need to do it but i cant find any reviews or discussion about results or...what to expect.

Thanks

 

[Backflip]

Me again.

Any chance you have hands on experience with de restricting a ep6 rs? I know now what i need to do it but i cant find any reviews or discussion about results or...what to expect.

Thanks

So why don´t you just contact the guys from EMAX?
They will send you all information you need and most probably also some references of users who had used their software already and are very happy with it.
Also you can check my other posts in this forum and you will find lots of information about derestricting DU-EP600 (EP6) or DU-EP801 based bikes (and for sure also their reduced "RS" variants which are used by Orbea) in there.
Just use the "search" - functionality in this forum or click on my profile and check my other posts.
Also please alway specify in detail what you want to achieve by "de restricting a ep6 rs"...
Do you want to increase max. peak power and/or max. torque range or do you want to increase max. motor support speed. Or both?
Do you want to use solely Bluetooth or do you have access to an interface from Shimano (see e.g. here)?
Sorry, but I am a bit tired of writing the same things over and over again.
Just found some interesting posts, see e.g. here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Hope that´s enough information.

 

[BAh30]

Hi,

talked to eMax over the last couple of days. I was able change the motors max power/torque ranges and it really made a noticeable difference. Im just waiting for a E600 display so i can fine tune the settings using the display.

Thanks

 

[JkdJEdi]

W

On an EP6-RS, you can change max. peak power (up to max. 500W on a DU-EP600) and max. torque range (up to max. 85Nm) as long as you currently have installed a motor firmware equal or less than 4.3.0 via the eMax - software tools (Bluetooth based eMaxMobileApp for iOS and Android or Windows based miniMax - program) already in the licence key free mode, see in chapter 12 of this document.
If you are already above this motor firmware and have installed motor firmware 4.4.1, then these settings can only be changed via cable bound SM-PCE1 or SM-PCE02 interface and the Windows based miniMax - program, but no more via Bluetooth. Maybe this forum post may be interesting too.

Why did they do that? So I have to plug my bike into a computer now!? Shimano is making a lot of fans.

 

[Backflip]

W

Why did they do that? So I have to plug my bike into a computer now!? Shimano is making a lot of fans.

The reason for this is very easy and clear: Orbea didn´t like that everybody knows that Orbea is cheating their customers publicly and their reduced "RS" (Riders Synergy "BS") drive units are not "specially developed by Orbea" (like Orbea claims), but are just "ordinary" standard drive units with ordinary original plain motor firmware from Shimano with reduced settings for max. peak power and max. torque range, see e.g. here.
There is, there was and there never will be any "very special developed - RS -" motor firmware from Orbea - Orbea uses the ordinary original motor firmware from Shimano since the beginning of their "RS" drive units.
So Orbea for sure did not like it at all that everybody could easily increase these values on their "RS" drive units with the tools from eMax-Tuning already in the licence key free version and get the full potential of these motors.
So Orbea insisted that Shimano will create a new motor firmware on which this hidden functionality (which is available since many years already in the Shimano STePS system, long before the "RS" drive unit was "invented" already) will be deleted via Bluetooth in one of their next versions (which now happened).
However, because also in the future it is very important that Shimano (and Orbea) can use these functions for changing max. peak power and max. torque range after production (e.g. if Shimano uses a hub gear which is not able to withstand high torques) you most probably will still be able to use this hidden functionality also in the future via a cable bound PCE - interface and the Windows based miniMax - program from eMax-Tuning.
So, yes, you need to get access to such an interface (e.g. this SM-PCE02 one) and then also to a Windows computer - otherwise there is no way anymore to change these values if you are already on the latest motor firmware 4.1.x on a DU-EP801 or DU-EP600 drive unit.
And again: Never update accidentaly a Shimano STePS drive based bike to a new firmware if you don´t exactly know what you are doing and have a look to the compatibiltiy of eMax-Tuning first (see e.g. in chapter 12 of this document), if you are using these tools, otherwise this easily can ruin your day and create a lot of frustration.
The latest version 4.4.1 does not give any single advantage (but only disadvantages) compared to the previous version 4.3.0. Sounds strange, but is fact.

 

[TorAtle]

Tried eMax mobile app today. It's quite finicky, needed lots of tries to connect to, get bike information and program it, but I got it done in the end. After getting the bike information, I got a message saying that it was only able to program certain things (my bike is a 2025 Rise LT M10, motor version 4.3.0). "Motor speed modes" is not available, however "Motor performance settings" is. So I chose the original EP801 settings, transfered to bike, no problem. Output power is now displayed as 600W in all modes. To verify this was actually done, I uninstalled the app, got it set up again and it still shows 600 watts.

First try - can't really tell there is a difference to the RS 400W . I guess I should have done a baseline test first, a timed run up a steep climb, but I didn't.

Have you done the modification? Did you feel any difference?

 

[Backflip]

Tried eMax mobile app today. It's quite finicky, needed lots of tries to connect to, get bike information and program it, but I got it done in the end. After getting the bike information, I got a message saying that it was only able to program certain things (my bike is a 2025 Rise LT M10, motor version 4.3.0). "Motor speed modes" is not available, however "Motor performance settings" is. So I chose the original EP801 settings, transfered to bike, no problem. Output power is now displayed as 600W in all modes. To verify this was actually done, I uninstalled the app, got it set up again and it still shows 600 watts.

First try - can't really tell there is a difference to the RS 400W . I guess I should have done a baseline test first, a timed run up a steep climb, but I didn't.

Have you done the modification? Did you feel any difference?

Depending on the cadence you are using, for sure you will feel a difference when having a 50% plus on output power. So, if you are a high cadence biker, then you definitely will feel an increased peak power from 400W to 600W. However, if you are a low cadence rider, most probably the max. torque of 85Nm will limit your motor and you may not feel that much difference. So, depending on your cadence either max. peak power value or max. torque value is limiting you drive unit. This is also due to the fact that cadende, torque and power are physically related together. See also e.g. this post.
Below you will see the difference in moving the "sweet spot" of cadence from 45 to 67rpm when unleashing 600W instead of 400W on your Orbea bike with max. 85Nm of torque:

However, take care when you are using a range extender battery on your bike, because there are some early production types of these additional batteries which are not capable to deliver max. 600W peak power, especially if the battery level is already quite low. In this case it may happen that the bike will suddenly just power off under "heavy conditions". Neither drive unit nor battery will get any damage and you instantly can power on the bike again in this situation, however, for sure this may be annoying. So, best is to test this "heavy load" scenario if you are using a range extender.

Also take care NOT to update to a newer motor firmware (e.g. the latest version 4.4.1), because doing so, you cannot change these values any more via Bluetooth based eMaxMobileApp and if you then want to change these values, you need a cable bound PCE - interface from Shimano and to use the miniMax - program from eMax-Tuning.
You always will find the possibilities of eMax-Tuning on a DU-EP801 based bike in chapter 12 of this document and if you have any issues connecting via Bluetooth, then chapter 15 of this document is the way to go.
Due to the non standard Bluetooth protocol Shimano is using and the different Bluetooth chips smartphones are using nowadays, sometimes it needs some patience to get the first connection properly working.
However, once you have established a working Bluetooth connection with your smartphone to your bike, the connection will be stable and solid also in the future.

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

This might be irrelevant, but on the older EP8 (not a 801) changing footwear for something with a firmer sole helps a lot in getting the most out of the motor.obviousy if riding clipless this won't apply.

 

[BAh30]

Tried eMax mobile app today. It's quite finicky, needed lots of tries to connect to, get bike information and program it, but I got it done in the end. After getting the bike information, I got a message saying that it was only able to program certain things (my bike is a 2025 Rise LT M10, motor version 4.3.0). "Motor speed modes" is not available, however "Motor performance settings" is. So I chose the original EP801 settings, transfered to bike, no problem. Output power is now displayed as 600W in all modes. To verify this was actually done, I uninstalled the app, got it set up again and it still shows 600 watts.

First try - can't really tell there is a difference to the RS 400W . I guess I should have done a baseline test first, a timed run up a steep climb, but I didn't.

Have you done the modification? Did you feel any difference?

Connectivity wise i found it best to power up the bike last ie: phone BT, emax app then bike. Yes. Once youve made the changes, go to the etube app, using the one of the default proflies, i left the 1st one alone ie; 500w/85nm at each PAS and customized the nm levels in the 2nd so that in eco mode the nm is 55nm, in trail its 70nm and in turbo its 85. Sweet spot for me seems to be using a 70 rpm cadence....
YMMV

 

[markloch]

Depending on the cadence you are using, for sure you will feel a difference when having a 50% plus on output power. So, if you are a high cadence biker, then you definitely will feel an increased peak power from 400W to 600W. However, if you are a low cadence rider, most probably the max. torque of 85Nm will limit your motor and you may not feel that much difference. So, depending on your cadence either max. peak power value or max. torque value is limiting you drive unit. This is also due to the fact that cadende, torque and power are physically related together. See also e.g. this post.
Below you will see the difference in moving the "sweet spot" of cadence from 45 to 67rpm when unleashing 600W instead of 400W on your Orbea bike with max. 85Nm of torque:
View attachment 157545

However, take care when you are using a range extender battery on your bike, because there are some early production types of these additional batteries which are not capable to deliver max. 600W peak power, especially if the battery level is already quite low. In this case it may happen that the bike will suddenly just power off under "heavy conditions". Neither drive unit nor battery will get any damage and you instantly can power on the bike again in this situation, however, for sure this may be annoying. So, best is to test this "heavy load" scenario if you are using a range extender.

The first time I used the range extender after bumping up max power/torque I ran into this on a steep climb. My Urrun had just a few miles on it; I thought I broke it! Off/On then again, then it occurred to me to disconnect the extender, all good after that.

I'd consider a new range extender (and give my current one to my stepson - he has a Rise, and birthday coming up) if I knew I was getting one that isn't an 'early production type'. I got mine last summer, ordered from Orbea through LBS. Is there a sub-model designation or s/n range that you are aware of that corresponds to the older extenders? Mine shows "Model: EBT360-070P3D9A 10INR19/66-2"

Do you have numbers (or a sense/guess) at what maximum(s) - power and/or torque - an early-model range extender can handle?

Currently when using the extender I stick to profile #1 which is set to 150/300/400 via eMax and I use it for flats and modest hills (basically the long approaches to the longer and steeper climbs). Given the moderate terrain I can't recall if I tend to stick to eco/trail (150/300) and have avoided boost (400) - it's been a while since I've used the extender but will this weekend and see if the battery cuts out at boost on steeper climbs.

Also via eMax are max torque range 20-85Nm and power limit fine tune 600W. Does that 20-85Nm apply to profile #1?

 

[Backflip]

The first time I used the range extender after bumping up max power/torque I ran into this on a steep climb. My Urrun had just a few miles on it; I thought I broke it! Off/On then again, then it occurred to me to disconnect the extender, all good after that.

I'd consider a new range extender (and give my current one to my stepson - he has a Rise, and birthday coming up) if I knew I was getting one that isn't an 'early production type'. I got mine last summer, ordered from Orbea through LBS. Is there a sub-model designation or s/n range that you are aware of that corresponds to the older extenders? Mine shows "Model: EBT360-070P3D9A 10INR19/66-2"

Do you have numbers (or a sense/guess) at what maximum(s) - power and/or torque - an early-model range extender can handle?

Currently when using the extender I stick to profile #1 which is set to 150/300/400 via eMax and I use it for flats and modest hills (basically the long approaches to the longer and steeper climbs). Given the moderate terrain I can't recall if I tend to stick to eco/trail (150/300) and have avoided boost (400) - it's been a while since I've used the extender but will this weekend and see if the battery cuts out at boost on steeper climbs.

Also via eMax are max torque range 20-85Nm and power limit fine tune 600W. Does that 20-85Nm apply to profile #1?

Unfortunately I don´t know how to distinguish the range extender batteries via serial numbers. Most probably they differ in the firmware of the BMS, the battery management system (the electronics inside the battery pack), but I don´t know which firmware is better and which is worse.
I suggest not to use Boost mode with high peak power at all if you are using a range extender (especially when it is low in level already). Best is to just step down to e.g. max. Trail mode when using a low level range extender, so you can avoid accidentally and sporadic power cut offs.
Also it is very important that the plug of the range extender as well as the charge port where the range extender is connected to has perfect clean contacts - take care that they are not ent, wet or corroded, otherwise such a bad contact can also lead to sporadic cut offs when using the range extender. There are some special contact cleaner sprays for electric contacts which may help a lot.
Max. peak power values and torque range are always valid for both profiles, however in each profile and each mode (BASIC mode with Eco, Trail and Boost or FineTune mode with up to max. 15 active settings) you can define the max. torque in that individual setting.

 

[markloch]

Unfortunately I don´t know how to distinguish the range extender batteries via serial numbers. Most probably they differ in the firmware of the BMS, the battery management system (the electronics inside the battery pack), but I don´t know which firmware is better and which is worse.
I suggest not to use Boost mode with high peak power at all if you are using a range extender (especially when it is low in level already). Best is to just step down to e.g. max. Trail mode when using a low level range extender, so you can avoid accidentally and sporadic power cut offs.
Also it is very important that the plug of the range extender as well as the charge port where the range extender is connected to has perfect clean contacts - take care that they are not ent, wet or corroded, otherwise such a bad contact can also lead to sporadic cut offs when using the range extender. There are some special contact cleaner sprays for electric contacts which may help a lot.
Max. peak power values and torque range are always valid for both profiles, however in each profile and each mode (BASIC mode with Eco, Trail and Boost or FineTune mode with up to max. 15 active settings) you can define the max. torque in that individual setting.

So far so good, used trail (300) on the approach then boost (400) climbing the trail (about 800ft so far). Display @ 8 bars, RE showing 2. Back to Trail for a while. As I recall I can start feeling the drop when RE drops to 1.

View attachment 1743893793320.jpeg

 

[BAh30]

So far so good, used trail (300) on the approach then boost (400) climbing the trail (about 800ft so far). Display @ 8 bars, RE showing 2. Back to Trail for a while. As I recall I can start feeling the drop when RE drops to 1.

View attachment 157617

you know what you could do is have profile one set up as if the bike was still running the OE settings before using the emax app . Then set up the 2nd profile using 500w on all PASs and then something like 50 on eco. 70 on trail and 85 on turbo. SO you can toggle back and forth.

 

[markloch]

you know what you could do is have profile one set up as if the bike was still running the OE settings before using the emax app . Then set up the 2nd profile using 500w on all PASs and then something like 50 on eco. 70 on trail and 85 on turbo. SO you can toggle back and forth.

Yup that's what I sort of what I have #1 is 150/300/400, max 85nm for the RE, #2 is "fine-tune" max 600 for main battery only. I rode RE almost to the first summit (~1900ft climb); I could have made it if I stuck to 300 but was lazy and ran at 400 for much of the way. 400 seems fine with the RE. I stuck with #1 on the main battery for the rest of the ride, until a paved winding ascent with tourist traffic where speed is crucial (up out of Muir Woods for those who know the area).

 

[Backflip]

you know what you could do is have profile one set up as if the bike was still running the OE settings before using the emax app . Then set up the 2nd profile using 500w on all PASs and then something like 50 on eco. 70 on trail and 85 on turbo. SO you can toggle back and forth.

This is only partially true, because the max. peak power can only set "globaly" on the bike and so is always valid for both profiles! Only max. torque values can be set individually in each profile of a DU-EP600, DU-EP800 or DU-EP801 based bike...
But the trick is to use BASIC mode (with "only" the 3 settings Eco, Trail and Boost) in one profile and in the other use the (new and great) FineTune mode (in which you can activate up to 15 setings). In this way you can program also different max. peak power values for Eco, Trail and Boost (in BASIC mode in one profile) and another max. peak power value for FineTune - mode in the other profile.