Fuel EXe Trek Fuel EXe Megathread!

[izzymtb]

Great vid above. I returned the Ex-e before its 30 day return policy due to the grinding issue. I thought I’ll wait until TQ/Trek gets as much kink out before going back to it. I think the bike is perfect besides the grinding noise. Then I saw my other LBS has the Pivot Shuttle SL X01 with the 24 month 0 interest in stock I could not pass that up. So I’m going to give that a try but I did just found out about some creaking issue also hopefully mine will be okay, will see.

 

[DugT]

I made a video. Comparison video between TQ and Fazua



An update I received today from TQ on Noise:

We are currently working on this topic. It has no influence on the motor’s performance or durability and seams to be no more than a peculiarity of one of the sprag clutches of our motor.

If the motor’s assist is very low (less than ~ 10W) it seams that the electric motors torque is not enough to rotate the clutch, but not fully engage it. This can lead to the weird rattling/grinding noise. The forces in such a scenario are however extremely low and do not put any mentionable wear on the internals of the motor.

From everything we know and all the 1000s of field testing kilometers we have already done this issue is nothing to worry about.

Nevertheless the low noise is one of our strongest USPs and we are working on a solution. We believe that some tweaks in the motor controller algorithm could reduce or even completely remove this noise. Our goal is to roll out a software update before the end of this year.

I think there is a typo and the first "not" should not be there. ....the electric motors torque is not enough to rotate the clutch, but not fully engage it. Here it is corrected, if I am correct.

..... If the motor’s assist is very low (less than ~ 10W) it seems that the electric motors torque is enough to rotate the clutch, but not fully engage it. This can lead to the weird rattling/grinding noise.

 

[DBSwiss]

I made a video. Comparison video between TQ and Fazua



An update I received today from TQ on Noise:

We are currently working on this topic. It has no influence on the motor’s performance or durability and seams to be no more than a peculiarity of one of the sprag clutches of our motor.

If the motor’s assist is very low (less than ~ 10W) it seams that the electric motors torque is not enough to rotate the clutch, but not fully engage it. This can lead to the weird rattling/grinding noise. The forces in such a scenario are however extremely low and do not put any mentionable wear on the internals of the motor.

From everything we know and all the 1000s of field testing kilometers we have already done this issue is nothing to worry about.

Nevertheless the low noise is one of our strongest USPs and we are working on a solution. We believe that some tweaks in the motor controller algorithm could reduce or even completely remove this noise. Our goal is to roll out a software update before the end of this year.

Thanks for getting that response from TQ. This is exactly what I was hoping for. It being a clutch issue makes sense and the explanation is reassuring.

 

[socal_rider]

My 9.8 XT has a serious crack / tick when pedalling, especially standing up and really cranking in it.
Checked crank tightness - Nope
Checked lock ring / chainring torque - Nope
Checked all bearings on the bike (cleaned and greased and torqued) - Nope
Dropped the motor and checked mounting bolts - Ah Ha!

No grease on the mounting bolts. (Cleaned / Greased / Torqued)
Absolutely perfect now.

Jsyk.

Mine has been creaking/ticking lately. I really noticed it first with standup hard efforts. I can now recreate the noise while coasting and just shaking the bike side to side. Kinda sounds like marbles down in the frame.

 

[prolix2]

Excellent points. My grind noise is not associated with any performance issues at all. Perfect performance from the motor and the transmission. I also have heard a rare isolated ticking noise. May be only two or three ticks at a time, And could not decide whether it was from the motor or the transmission or a twig in a spoke Or a frame creak. And extremely rare. So short-lived are the ticks that I can’t experiment with changing torque or weight distribution etc. Just a curiosity.

Further guessing on the grind noise is that it is a design thing combined with perhaps very slight production variability, combined with software inability to oordinate clutching with motor…. To a variable degree in a indeterminate number of motors.. combined with the fact that most people are high screeners, And the trails are noisy and tires are noisy and the motor is SO quiet.

 

[prolix2]

That reply has been sitting on my screen unsent for a day and half, before Robs answer from TQ, I have now ridden two new , unsold , EXEs and could only reproduce only the slighest question of a pissible grind in one On the other, where conds. were better to test, I could get no grind, just like when my bike was new.

 

[Moderator]

Hi All,

I've copied out several of the posts about the "grinding noise" into a new thread in the motors section.

This should make it easier for any of you to find and post updates on the issue rather than trying to find the information within the EXe Megathread.

TQ HPR50 Grinding Noise

OK, I''ve just now figured the factors that produce the grind sound, for me. Any time, and for me every time, the pedal rate and force i apply on the crank fall below what's needed to activate the motor, the grind sound occurs. For example this will occur while riding on a level surface in a...

www.emtbforums.com

Thanks, Mod.

 

[TorAtle]

I made a video. Comparison video between TQ and Fazua

The efficiency of the TQ isn't impressive. 750 meters of elevation vs 1200-1300 meters on the Fazua. Adjustering for the bigger battery, the Fazua is 40% more efficient in your test. Almost unbelievable.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The efficiency of the TQ isn't impressive. 750 meters of elevation vs 1200-1300 meters on the Fazua. Adjustering for the bigger battery, the Fazua is 40% more efficient in your test. Almost unbelievable.

Here’s the Strava data. The TQ was with original tyres too.

 

[Free_Tibet]

LOCKED / FROZEN SYSTEM ("Purple" screen") - Likely due to water ingress?:

Hi all,
Just to share my experience of a few days ago where my Fuel EX-e electrical system stopped responding. The screen had the normal display but it would not respond to the remote switch, nor respond to the button under the screen.

Nothing I tried would reset it - not the "10 second hold down", not disconnecting the battery, not unplugging the remote switch.
After disconnecting the battery it ended up with just a (purple) soft glowing screen - this being the backlight I believe. But no white letters or numbers at all. Just a dim purple glow of the backlight when the battery was connected.

Probably not a coincidence, but I had just finished doing a VERY light washing of the bike. Prior to washing the bike I had put painters masking tape on it - covering the display unit, the cable entry ports of the down tube, and the remote switch. I figured "better safe than sorry" in using the masking tape but potentially it wasn't enough, even when using a VERY low flow rate of a VERY low pressure of a garden hose.

When I took the battery cover off, there was no sign of water coming down the down tube.... just a tiny bit of water that looks to have got through the gaps at the side of the cover itself.

Took it into my Trek store late last week and am waiting to hear what they report back.

I LOVE the bike but I am thinking there may be some major vulnerability to water with the current parts design that would make me very concerned about getting caught in the rain during a ride.

It is my first e-bike I have owned (only 4 weeks in) so I am still learning about this New World that I have entered .

Perhaps owners should completely avoid anything but a damp rag when cleaning the bike frame and bars?

Hope this info helps others in some way.

 

[Mteam]

Went for my first proper ride on mine today.

Is there any way to override the fact that the motor cuts power to 110w max when the battery is below 10% charge?

This is a poor design decision, I should be able to decide how I want to use that last 10% not the bike choosing for me. I would imagine that it could be easy to change this behaviour with a firmware update, hope tq/trek read these forums.

I won't comment on range until I have had a few more rides, the manual seems to imply that it needs one full discharge/charge cycle before it gives full range,is that correct?

Aside from that I like the bike, the rear suspension is great, really firm to push against,but really supple over fast repeated hits. It's nice to ride a bike that feels like a bike , easier to pop the front end up etc.

 

[DBSwiss]

LOCKED / FROZEN SYSTEM ("Purple" screen") - Likely due to water ingress?:

Hi all,
Just to share my experience of a few days ago where my Fuel EX-e electrical system stopped responding. The screen had the normal display but it would not respond to the remote switch, nor respond to the button under the screen.

Nothing I tried would reset it - not the "10 second hold down", not disconnecting the battery, not unplugging the remote switch.
After disconnecting the battery it ended up with just a (purple) soft glowing screen - this being the backlight I believe. But no white letters or numbers at all. Just a dim purple glow of the backlight when the battery was connected.

Probably not a coincidence, but I had just finished doing a VERY light washing of the bike. Prior to washing the bike I had put painters masking tape on it - covering the display unit, the cable entry ports of the down tube, and the remote switch. I figured "better safe than sorry" in using the masking tape but potentially it wasn't enough, even when using a VERY low flow rate of a VERY low pressure of a garden hose.

When I took the battery cover off, there was no sign of water coming down the down tube.... just a tiny bit of water that looks to have got through the gaps at the side of the cover itself.

Took it into my Trek store late last week and am waiting to hear what they report back.

I LOVE the bike but I am thinking there may be some major vulnerability to water with the current parts design that would make me very concerned about getting caught in the rain during a ride.

It is my first e-bike I have owned (only 4 weeks in) so I am still learning about this New World that I have entered .

Perhaps owners should completely avoid anything but a damp rag when cleaning the bike frame and bars?

Hope this info helps others in some way.

I have hosed off my bike after every ride, using the ‘shower’ setting on my hose which is very low pressure. I never had an issue. Never covered up the display. you may have an issue with how the display was installed. They should be able to address that I would hope.

 

[Cell4soul]

View attachment 100361 View attachment 100362

Here’s the Strava data. The TQ was with original tyres too.

Those Numbers are crazy. TQ and Trek really dropped the ball on the range. The TQ motor is really inefficient. My Rise with the EP8 RS had noticeably more power and range than my EXe. It sounds like the Fazua Ride 60 has better range and power as well. I am ok with the power delivery of the EXe, I didn’t expect the 50 nm motor to be as powerful as a 60 nm motor. The range performance really bothers me. There is no way the EXe should get less range than the Rise, given less power and same size battery. The range is my only complaint about the EXe. Everything else is incredible.

You really went 1,300 meters elevation, all in full power (boost, turbo or whatever they call it)? If so, that is truly incredible and Has me questioning my Trek purchase.

 

[Mteam]

View attachment 100361 View attachment 100362

Here’s the Strava data. The TQ was with original tyres too.

The average speed of the tq ride is 50% faster than the fazua ride, that would drain the battery on the tq quicker for every meter of height gained,wouldn't it?

And knuts test of the tq motor on the front page of the site gave it similar height gain figures to the ep8 rs in the rise.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The average speed of the tq ride is 50% faster than the fazua ride, that would drain the battery on the tq quicker for every meter of height gained,wouldn't it?

I stopped a lot on the Fazua ride. The TQ was a continuous ride

 

[Mteam]

I stopped a lot on the Fazua ride. The TQ was a continuous ride

Strava average speeds are moving averages though,so it should have accounted for( ie excluded) stopped time.

 

[Zimmerframe]

For anyone curious about range/altitude and so on with the Fuel EXe, there is a separate thread dedicated to discussing it :

Fuel EXe - Trek Fuel EXe - Trying to understand range and altitude possibilities

I am looking at the Trek EXe and what the reviewers are getting getting for range. I am hearing a solid 2 hrs and 4500M of elevation using full power. I would be mostly under mid power likely now comparing this to my last bigger ride I am trying to compare this to my numbers from Strava. 500M...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

Went for my first proper ride on mine today.

Is there any way to override the fact that the motor cuts power to 110w max when the battery is below 10% charge?

This is a poor design decision, I should be able to decide how I want to use that last 10% not the bike choosing for me. I would imagine that it could be easy to change this behaviour with a firmware update, hope tq/trek read these forums.

I won't comment on range until I have had a few more rides, the manual seems to imply that it needs one full discharge/charge cycle before it gives full range,is that correct?

Aside from that I like the bike, the rear suspension is great, really firm to push against,but really supple over fast repeated hits. It's nice to ride a bike that feels like a bike , easier to pop the front end up etc.

You will destroy your battery very quickly, because Li-Ion batteries don't like to be drained at high current at lower voltages.

So, if TQ (among others) has done this, it's to save yourv battery!

Thierry

 

[Mteam]

You will destroy your battery very quickly, because Li-Ion batteries don't like to be drained at high current at lower voltages.

So, if TQ (among others) has done this, it's to save yourv battery!

Thierry

If that's the case ,it's a bit strange that Bosch or Shimano don't do the same with their systems . With Bosch and Shimano you get to use turbo mode all the way down to zero percent.

If tq do it to protect the battery that's fine,but I guess I need to account for the fact that the bike is essentially out of charge at 10%.

 

[DBSwiss]

I just had my second event where after a battery charge cycle I turned on the bike only to discover the charger had turned off before completion, i.e. <100%. I’m thinking it may have to do with the 4414 error I’ve been getting. Hopefully the new firmware update will fix this charging issue too.

Moral of the story: After charging, turn on the bike to make sure it’s fully charged to 100%.

On a positive note, the charger does a great job of charging from 20-80% quickly. Makes a mid day top off reasonable so you can go for another ride. (Going from 80-100% takes an additional hour.)

That brings up a question I have been thinking about. Is it really good for the battery to charge to 100% and keep it there for an extended time? I drive a Tesla and Tesla recommends changing to 80 or 90% and only to 100% when needed (with the original battery chemistry. The more recent Fe chemistry has no limitation on charging). Has anyone seen anything about charging recommendations On the Fuel EXe? I have also seen reports on other bike where they charge to 100% but if they stay plugged in, they drain down to 80% again. I wonder if that is for retaining the life of the battery.

 

[Emailsucks98]

I made a video. Comparison video between TQ and Fazua

Great video, thanks for that. I'm wondering if the TQ motor may just be optimized for efficiency at lower wattage, whereas the Fazua maybe the opposite. Not talking about the app settings, but the actual design of the motor. Given the difference in torque it kind of makes sense.

The TQ seems to have good range in eco/trail mode, but the boost mode isn't that powerful and kills the battery quickly. I liked tuning mine so all 3 modes are between eco and trail (100/120/150w) but with more "assist" than stock. I got 1100 meters of vert using those settings and had 15% battery left.

 

[Kepler]

Although I have no doubts about Rob's testing in relation to meters climbed compared to the Fazua, to be fair, they were completely different rides. A real comparison would be the same climb back to back with the two bike systems. As a third comparison, below is my ride from yesterday on my exe. There was a lot of flat bitumen on this ride hence the decent average speed but I didn't need to work particularly hard (as seen by my heart rate) to achieve close to 60km and 674 metres of elevation. Again a completely different type of ride (80% paved, 20% dirt)

Looking at the efficiency specs of both motors, the TQ is rated at greater then 90% and the Ride 60 at approx 80%. based on this the TQ is rated at 324Whr to crank and the Ride 60 360 Whr to the crank. This gives the Ride 60 a 10% advantage.

I think bottom line, no one should be disappointed with either one of these systems. No doubt we are in a golden age of ebikes.

 

[jeromep71]

Hello, Do you have any idea about the availability of the new firmware for our Fuel EX-E. I think I read that it should be released in early November. For information, the first Fuel EXE arrive in France. I find this Ebike really great (despite the 4414 error that I also have). It is super handy, stable and very playful... the best.
It's a totally upgraded Fuel 9.5. It's a veritable enduro machine that weighs 18.00 kg (ready to go riding).
FYI, I had a Rail 9.8 previously.

 

[Free_Tibet]

Hello, Do you have any idea about the availability of the new firmware for our Fuel EX-E. I think I read that it should be released in early November. For information, the first Fuel EXE arrive in France. I find this Ebike really great (despite the 4414 error that I also have). It is super handy, stable and very playful... the best.
It's a totally upgraded Fuel 9.5. It's a veritable enduro machine that weighs 18.00 kg (ready to go riding).
FYI, I had a Rail 9.8 previously.

I had my bike in at the Trek store today for a repair. I do not know what version was previously installed but it had the "latest" firmware available when I purchased in on 30-September. Today they found there was a more recent firmware update available and they installed it. I am not sure when it was released. Any way we can check what the installed version number is?

 

[rdbowden]

Although I have no doubts about Rob's testing in relation to meters climbed compared to the Fazua, to be fair, they were completely different rides. A real comparison would be the same climb back to back with the two bike systems. As a third comparison, below is my ride from yesterday on my exe. There was a lot of flat bitumen on this ride hence the decent average speed but I didn't need to work particularly hard (as seen by my heart rate) to achieve close to 60km and 674 metres of elevation. Again a completely different type of ride (80% paved, 20% dirt)

Looking at the efficiency specs of both motors, the TQ is rated at greater then 90% and the Ride 60 at approx 80%. based on this the TQ is rated at 324Whr to crank and the Ride 60 360 Whr to the crank. This gives the Ride 60 a 10% advantage.

I think bottom line, no one should be disappointed with either one of these systems. No doubt we are in a golden age of ebikes.
View attachment 100431

When you have a moment could you include a link to the efficiency numbers you posted? I am referring to this "Looking at the efficiency specs of both motors, the TQ is rated at greater then 90% and the Ride 60 at approx 80%." I found the Fauza efficiency number, but I could not locate the TQ one.

 

[Mteam]

When you have a moment could you include a link to the efficiency numbers you posted? I am referring to this "Looking at the efficiency specs of both motors, the TQ is rated at greater then 90% and the Ride 60 at approx 80%." I found the Fauza efficiency number, but I could not locate the TQ one.

see here FAQ.

its stated in the 4th question down

 

[jeromep71]

I had my bike in at the Trek store today for a repair. I do not know what version was previously installed but it had the "latest" firmware available when I purchased in on 30-September. Today they found there was a more recent firmware update available and they installed it. I am not sure when it was released. Any way we can check what the installed version number is?

Thanks

I tried to get the firmware version but I can't get into setup mode from the console on the Fuel. On the TQ documentation, it says this

Setup-Mode activate
Switch off the drive system.
Press and hold the button on the Display (pos. 5 in Fig. 1) and the DOWN button on the Remote (pos. 2 in Fig. 2) for at least 5 seconds.

But this manipulation does not work and I have an error message !!!

 

[Mteam]

Thanks

I tried to get the firmware version but I can't get into setup mode from the console on the Fuel. On the TQ documentation, it says this

Setup-Mode activate
Switch off the drive system.
Press and hold the button on the Display (pos. 5 in Fig. 1) and the DOWN button on the Remote (pos. 2 in Fig. 2) for at least 5 seconds.

But this manipulation does not work and I have an error message !!!

the manual is wrong, you need to start the process with the system switched on, not switched off.

 

[rdbowden]

see here FAQ.

its stated in the 4th question down

Thanks!

 

[jeromep71]

the manual is wrong, you need to start the process with the system switched on, not switched off.

OK, thanks

I now go into the console setup but I can't find the firmware version.