TQ HPR50 Grinding Noise

[Bikenmike]

Thank you both for your input clearly we all agree that for the same torque the resulting bolt tensions which is what we're aiming for will be greater if we lubricate the threads. The question then is "are the torque settings specified by our bike manufacturers for lubricated or dry bolts"
It's my opinion that it's not practical to avoid getting a trace of lubricant on bolts in a normal workshop setting. So if the recommendations are for dry then by how much should we reduce the torque if the bolts have lubricant on them??

 

[DBSwiss]

Any update on the firmware fix from TQ? @Roman mentioned that they were going to have an update end of 2022 but the latest firmware I just got did not fix the issue. (It fixed another issue however with the motor in boost mode cutting out)

 

[mitea]

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Is this the grinding noise?

 

[Suns_PSD]

It's been documented that torquing using grease over torques things and can often stretch bolts pass their yield point. It's not the correct way.

 

[prolix2]

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Is this the grinding noise?

The frequency of the clatter sound is similar to mine.

 

[DBSwiss]

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Is this the grinding noise?

Yes, it is. There is a separate thread on here about this. It appears when the motor is only lightly engaged with less than 15 watts of output. Per TQ (Roman) it is caused by a clutch not fully disengaging/engaging. Apparently they are working on a formware fix that will likely try to avoid the range that produces the noise.

 

[Ddub]

Yes, it is. There is a separate thread on here about this. It appears when the motor is only lightly engaged with less than 15 watts of output. Per TQ (Roman) it is caused by a clutch not fully disengaging/engaging. Apparently they are working on a formware fix that will likely try to avoid the range that produces the noise.

What thread is it in?

 

[DBSwiss]

What thread is it in?

Sorry, this is that thread . I got my threads mixed up…

 

[rocky yeung]

Regarding the noise issue from possible clutch area, this 3D exploded view of the TQ motor is a great video to understand it better.

NOTE : This animation is not truely replicated the actual parts and size. The author made these by gathering all the images collected in Internet and tried to collaborate them.

 

[alleny]

Any update on the firmware fix from TQ? @Roman mentioned that they were going to have an update end of 2022 but the latest firmware I just got did not fix the issue. (It fixed another issue however with the motor in boost mode cutting out)

@Roman Please update the current status of the update that is supposed to fix/improve the motor grinding issues on the TQ motor. Supposed to be avail by end of year (2022)

 

[mitea]

@Roman Please update the current status of the update that is supposed to fix/improve the motor grinding issues on the TQ motor. Supposed to be avail by end of year (2022)

I guess they still havent been able to fix it. Thats the reason why there is no news.

 

[DBSwiss]

I guess they still havent been able to fix it. Thats the reason why there is no news.

I am wondering the same. I definitely still have the issue. Roman did confirm that it is indeed an issue with the clutch and not just a noise that has no impact. Hopefully, he will be able to give us an update here soon @Roman.

 

[mitea]

I am wondering the same. I definitely still have the issue. Roman did confirm that it is indeed an issue with the clutch and not just a noise that has no impact. Hopefully, he will be able to give us an update here soon @Roman.

I assume either they didn't find the time now to solve it by a firmware update or they learned that its not solvable by firmware and needs a hardware update. Since its very quiet I guess point two not unrealistic. Maybe there will be a redesign in the future and they want to keep the topic at low profile in the mean time.

 

[alleny]

I guess they still havent been able to fix it. Thats the reason why there is no news.

I think it's reasonable to ask for an update to the current status since Roman (and others) from TQ said a software update should be avail by the end of the year (2022).

 

[prolix2]

Any update on the firmware fix from TQ? @Roman mentioned that they were going to have an update end of 2022 but the latest firmware I just got did not fix the issue. (It fixed another issue however with the motor in boost mode cutting out)

My second, swapped, motor only occasionally makes the sound, so I'm worried that if they have a software change to try to correct for the noise they may have made a trade-off or a compromise for something else that may affect performance or naturalness of engagement. At the moment I'm thinking that I will wait and hear about others experience, if they come out with a Software Update, before getting mine done. What do you all think?

 

[DBSwiss]

My second, swapped, motor only occasionally makes the sound, so I'm worried that if they have a software change to try to correct for the noise they may have made a trade-off or a compromise for something else that may affect performance or naturalness of engagement. At the moment I'm thinking that I will wait and hear about others experience, if they come out with a Software Update, before getting mine done. What do you all think?

So far TQ @Roman has been radio silent. I have not heard about a fix or gotten any update. My bike still makes the same noise when the motor delivers below 20watts. If they try to fix it with a software update they would probably have to avoid the motor delivering any power below 20 watts which would make the delivery less smooth, I would think.
I kept the bike so far but not getting an update, makes me wonder. Not confidence inspiring.

 

[mitea]

So far TQ @Roman has been radio silent. ... Not confidence inspiring.

One can say its suspicously silent from TQ side

 

[Free_Tibet]

I

So far TQ @Roman has been radio silent. I have not heard about a fix or gotten any update. My bike still makes the same noise when the motor delivers below 20watts. If they try to fix it with a software update they would probably have to avoid the motor delivering any power below 20 watts which would make the delivery less smooth, I would think.
I kept the bike so far but not getting an update, makes me wonder. Not confidence inspiring.

It was fantastic that TQ via Roman were involved on this forum even though it was just for a very brief period. Anyone else get the sense that TQ told Roman to stop being involved on this forum and hence the radio silence now? . I get why TQ might not want to communicate through forums, but it was nice to have some sort of open communications with them. I have the same problem re motor issues at low power so was interested to know what was happening re this. I will send an email to their Support Desk.

 

[DBSwiss]

I
It was fantastic that TQ via Roman were involved on this forum even though it was just for a very brief period. Anyone else get the sense that TQ told Roman to stop being involved on this forum and hence the radio silence now? . I get why TQ might not want to communicate through forums, but it was nice to have some sort of open communications with them. I have the same problem re motor issues at low power so was interested to know what was happening re this. I will send an email to their Support Desk.

I think you are correct. they are controlling communication. Maybe Trek even asked them to do it. Something I would expect from a large organization not a small one like TQ. I will also try to send an email to TQ and will update here if I hear anything.

 

[DBSwiss]

I think you are correct. they are controlling communication. Maybe Trek even asked them to do it. Something I would expect from a large organization not a small one like TQ. I will also try to send an email to TQ and will update here if I hear anything.

I sent an email to TQ last night but haven’t heard anything yet, today. Will update if I hear anything. Not holding my breath…

 

[Mteam]

I think you are correct. they are controlling communication. Maybe Trek even asked them to do it. Something I would expect from a large organization not a small one like TQ. I will also try to send an email to TQ and will update here if I hear anything.

TQ are not that small .

TQ company details

TQ Group was founded as a two-man company in 1994. Today the Group employs a staff of 1650 at 14 locations.

www.tq-group.com

1900 employees, 13 locations, 357 million euros in sales in 21-22.

I reckon the reason Roman hasnt posted is because he cant provide any update yet.

 

[mitea]

I reckon the reason Roman hasnt posted is because he cant provide any update yet.

His last activity in this forum was in november. And back then he was very active. He could at least inform us that there is no update but they are still working. So no answer at all after all what happened here is a bit fishy imo.

 

[prolix2]

It may be a problem that takes a lot of resources to define, analyze, and solve. They may have taken a look at it, and determined that it’s not worthwhile fixing it, comparing the resources to fix it to the minimal benefit to only a few riders and the minimal loss of PR? May be like the old Ford Pinto gas tank problem where Ford decided it was cheaper to pay for a few lost lives than to remodel the whole line. But in this case, such a rational decision would not be inhumane.

 

[mitea]

It may be a problem that takes a lot of resources to define, analyze, and solve. They may have taken a look at it, and determined that it’s not worthwhile fixing it, comparing the resources to fix it to the minimal benefit to only a few riders and the minimal loss of PR? May be like the old Ford Pinto gas tank problem where Ford decided it was cheaper to pay for a few lost lives than to remodel the whole line. But in this case, such a rational decision would not be inhumane.

Since low noise is one of their USPs I think this issue will be very high ranked internally. This isn't a minor issue like an LED thats not blinking. My guess is they still didn't fully understand what causes the issue or how to fix it purely by software or its a mechanical design flaw of the clutch and it needs a complete redesign which will be hard to update in the existing motor if not impossible.

 

[DBSwiss]

Since low noise is one of their USPs I think this issue will be very high ranked internally. This isn't a minor issue like an LED thats not blinking. My guess is they still didn't fully understand what causes the issue or how to fix it purely by software or its a mechanical design flaw of the clutch and it needs a complete redesign which will be hard to update in the existing motor if not impossible.

They should just say what it is and where it stands in a transparent fashion. I am not sure it really is a serious issue as mine has not gotten worse. Maybe it is similar to the clacking noise the Shimano EP8 makes on the downhill, a flaw but not an issue that impacts performance. If I was them I would be worried about people reading about it on social media like this forum and holding off on a bike with a TQ Motor worried that this is indeed a serious design flaw that may lead to motor failures. It would be nice if TQ would communicate in an honest and transparent way.

 

[Mteam]

They should just say what it is and where it stands in a transparent fashion. I am not sure it really is a serious issue as mine has not gotten worse. Maybe it is similar to the clacking noise the Shimano EP8 makes on the downhill, a flaw but not an issue that impacts performance. If I was them I would be worried about people reading about it on social media like this forum and holding off on a bike with a TQ Motor worried that this is indeed a serious design flaw that may lead to motor failures. It would be nice if TQ would communicate in an honest and transparent way.

They did( post#11 in this thread) , they just said it was a characteristic of the motor under certain scenarios,mainly when the motor was producing very low power. They said it does not harm the motor in any way,and is not indicative of a fault

 

[GolfMaster52]

They did( post#11 in this thread) , they just said it was a characteristic of the motor under certain scenarios,mainly when the motor was producing very low power. They said it does not harm the motor in any way,and is not indicative of a fault

My girlfriend got her 9.7 Exe in July of 2022. No early motor issues or noises, had all of the service bulletin work completed and has loved the bike for 1800 miles. Two rides ago, said she could occasionally hear a clicking noise as she pedaled. I ensured everything was tight, cleaned the drive train, and lubed the chain. During our ride yesterday, it started making the sound again. Now, it is constant regardless of mode, cadence, or torque put on the motor. I rode it and it sounds like the Predator from the Schwarzenegger movie. The chainring was tight and no discernable loss of power, just a constant, noticeable sound that was never there before. She rode it directly to the LBS. They checked the chainring lock nut and it was at 50nm, so she just left it for them to look into. I'm certain after 1800 miles she has encountered every scenario the motor could and it was never a characteristic before. Is it irrational to think that this known sound is only now occuring 8.5 months later could be indicative of a fault or that something is failing? Hopefully, it can be resolved quickly.

 

[Mteam]

My girlfriend got her 9.7 Exe in July of 2022. No early motor issues or noises, had all of the service bulletin work completed and has loved the bike for 1800 miles. Two rides ago, said she could occasionally hear a clicking noise as she pedaled. I ensured everything was tight, cleaned the drive train, and lubed the chain. During our ride yesterday, it started making the sound again. Now, it is constant regardless of mode, cadence, or torque put on the motor. I rode it and it sounds like the Predator from the Schwarzenegger movie. The chainring was tight and no discernable loss of power, just a constant, noticeable sound that was never there before. She rode it directly to the LBS. They checked the chainring lock nut and it was at 50nm, so she just left it for them to look into. I'm certain after 1800 miles she has encountered every scenario the motor could and it was never a characteristic before. Is it irrational to think that this known sound is only now occuring 8.5 months later could be indicative of a fault or that something is failing? Hopefully, it can be resolved quickly.

I think I've heard the clicking sounds you're referring to on other peoples motors via you tube, and I think thats a different noise to the one that started all these "grinding sound" threads.

If its the same clicking as I've heard on other you tube videos then I think it is a fault, and not normal, but I dont think its the same as the grinding sound that started this thread and that TQ say is just a normal characteristic of the motor under certain limited circumstances.

At the end of the day you can only take the bike back to trek and see what they say.

 

[prolix2]

My girlfriend got her 9.7 Exe in July of 2022. No early motor issues or noises, had all of the service bulletin work completed and has loved the bike for 1800 miles. Two rides ago, said she could occasionally hear a clicking noise as she pedaled. I ensured everything was tight, cleaned the drive train, and lubed the chain. During our ride yesterday, it started making the sound again. Now, it is constant regardless of mode, cadence, or torque put on the motor. I rode it and it sounds like the Predator from the Schwarzenegger movie. The chainring was tight and no discernable loss of power, just a constant, noticeable sound that was never there before. She rode it directly to the LBS. They checked the chainring lock nut and it was at 50nm, so she just left it for them to look into. I'm certain after 1800 miles she has encountered every scenario the motor could and it was never a characteristic before. Is it irrational to think that this known sound is only now occuring 8.5 months later could be indicative of a fault or that something is failing? Hopefully, it can be resolved quickly.

“Sounds like the predator “…. awesome description. Almost makes me wish I had it.

 

[GolfMaster52]

I think I've heard the clicking sounds you're referring to on other peoples motors via you tube, and I think thats a different noise to the one that started all these "grinding sound" threads.

If its the same clicking as I've heard on other you tube videos then I think it is a fault, and not normal, but I dont think its the same as the grinding sound that started this thread and that TQ say is just a normal characteristic of the motor under certain limited circumstances.

At the end of the day you can only take the bike back to trek and see what they say.

Thanks for the info. I read through the forum, I guess I didn't realize there were 2 separate noises. I know some issues where resolved with the re-torquing of the chainring lock nut. But, you're exactly right. We'll just have to see what Trek says. I can say, she has loved every minute of riding it, so far.