SZZS specific CEF50-main thread (initial builds and troubleshooting related only)

[ficorama]

Alright, alright! Good news for me...a perfect fit. One bling-bling, blue Ti main pivot bolt.. Costs $80, but only 4 days to get to my door.

I figure the shorter black alloy OEM one somehow caught enough of the inside bushing edge to bridge the gap when tightened down.

Now just waiting on my warranty front triangle replacement (days away now), and then I can finally finish the originally intended painted build.

Glad no one else had this type of bad luck with the frame.
View attachment 120144

frame and engine arrived.

first i went to check the pivot bolts. both screws are short 4.5 millimeters. they barely pass 1mm to the other side. I think I will make new ones from the thruaxle.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

frame and engine arrived.

first i went to check the pivot bolts. both screws are short 4.5 millimeters. they barely pass 1mm to the other side. I think I will make new ones from the thruaxle.

Yeah, my custom Ti thru pins started out as a spare 12x148 thru axle.

 

[Lehr]

Ok compromise on your compromise. If you're showing repair photos/videos in this main thread blur or block out your 3rd party logos to prevent advertising and cluttering up this main thread. And minimize future exchanges that distract and thus big down a really long thread!

For newer thread peeps feel free to post here a photo/vid of the build process and an initial quick complete build final buildup photo.

We'll keep this one as the main build, repair, and troubleshooting one.

Please everybody go to the sub thread for cool ride photos and/or vids for the CEF50 of ALL brands.

CEF50 Ride Pics and Vids (only)​

CEF50 Ride Pics and Vids (only)

www.emtbforums.com

It doesn't matter, I'm just confirming that you do advertise for specific traders.

 

[8Grunf]

Guys, how long does it take for shipping to Europe on your side ? Here it"s been shipped end of Jan, then it arrived in Greece on the 20, 5 days ago, then I only have one log saying the custom has been passed and now nothing.
It still does not show up in the GLS tracking, it's loooooooooooong... was it the same on your side ?

Exactly 2 months, shipped on January 23rd and received by GLS on March 22nd.

 

[brbr]

Exactly 2 months, shipped on January 23rd and received by GLS on March 22nd.

I hope I will be able to say the same thing in 5 days

 

[Lehr]

 

[69tr6r]

For the guys that have built these bikes and ridden them a bit. If you could do it all over, would you build this bike again, or purchase a fully built bike from a big bike brand? I ask this because there are some sales going on now, such as this Orbea Rise for $3975 - Orbea Rise H30 20mph E-Bike 2023 | Jenson USA. Seems like that price is getting a lot closer to the DIY Chinese bike. Thanks!

 

[mike_kelly]

For the guys that have built these bikes and ridden them a bit. If you could do it all over, would you build this bike again, or purchase a fully built bike from a big bike brand? I ask this because there are some sales going on now, such as this Orbea Rise for $3975 - Orbea Rise H30 20mph E-Bike 2023 | Jenson USA. Seems like that price is getting a lot closer to the DIY Chinese bike. Thanks!

I have previously owned a Rise H30. The CEF50 cost me around $3600 US. I like the CEF50 as well as the RIse but tech support is more difficult. Doable but not as easy as a local shop.
So for me I would recommend the Rise it is a great bike for the same price.

 

[69tr6r]

@mike_kelly Thanks! Just what I was looking for.

 

[patdam]

does somebody know where we can purchase suspension axle washers (i have broken those of swigarm) ?

 

[LAnton]

does somebody know where we can purchase suspension axle washers (i have broken those of swigarm) ?

Take a photo of the washers.

 

[ficorama]

my package is announced from March 4th, sent on March 10th, arrived on March 25th. to Croatia.

 

[patdam]

Take a photo of the washers.

exemple (it's the same on all axles). it's broken when i have tried to tighten the swing arm axel to recommended torque (12 nM)

 

[LAnton]

exemple (it's the same on all axles). it's broken when i have tried to tighten the swing arm axel to recommended torque (12 nM)
View attachment 137062

It's unpleasant when such little things happen. But they are easy to fix. Well, I bought bolts with a stock for CEF49 and CEF50. There are two versions of bolts with a thin edge and a thick one. Write to Jean, she will send you the bolts.

 

[69tr6r]

I have previously owned a Rise H30. The CEF50 cost me around $3600 US. I like the CEF50 as well as the RIse but tech support is more difficult. Doable but not as easy as a local shop.
So for me I would recommend the Rise it is a great bike for the same price.

After doing some research on the Rise, I am leaning toward building a CEF50. I have most of the parts already since I have a big passion for mountain biking and I'm a bike parts hoarder. Jean has sent me an initial quote - just under $2k shipped with the 48V/700Wh battery. I want to build the lightest bike I can. Which battery should I go with? I plan to do 10-12 mile rides in New England terrain, which is rolling, punchy climbs. Thanks!

 

[mike_kelly]

If you have the parts then the CEF50 is a good choice. I got my wife's bike to 39lbs with the 340whr 36v battery. She has ridden 22 miles with 2000ft of constant elevation gain. So for short rides the smaller battery is lighter.

 

[69tr6r]

If you have the parts then the CEF50 is a good choice. I got my wife's bike to 39lbs with the 340whr 36v battery. She has ridden 22 miles with 2000ft of constant elevation gain. So for short rides the smaller battery is lighter.

Thanks @mike_kelly Would a 48v vs 36v battery give me better power? I've asked Jean for the options for batteries.

 

[mike_kelly]

Thanks @mike_kelly Would a 48v vs 36v battery give me better power? I've asked Jean for the options for batteries.

THe voltage has nothing to do with power. A 360whr battery has 360whr no matter what the voltage. One concern is an external extender battery. Although SZZS does not offer one it can be purchased from 3rd parties but the frame must be modified to accept a 3rd party external battery connector. The problem is that 36v are common, 48v less common but available and 43v is like from mars, nothing is available.
I have an article here on EMTB about adding an external battery. I have been using mine on my bike and my wifes bike with good results for 6 months. The only caveat is that you need to choose a waterproof right angle connector coming out of the frame that handles 20amps. It must clear your crank arm on the left side and it is handy to choose one that will be a direct swap out for the mounting holes of the original connector.

CEF50 External battery build

I took a chance on the CEF50 because I wanted a very light eMTB. Because of that I chose a light battery and planned to get an external battery to supplement the internal on long rides. Two things got in the way, Bafang is way behind on delivering internal batteries let alone their promised...

www.emtbforums.com

There are a number of DIY battery builders in this group. @Laton made an external battery fitting in a frame bag. But be aware that you need skill in building electronic components and have the right tools like a battery welder. I have a lot of experience designing and building drones. I was once prying apart a lithium battery case to replace the batteries and my knife tip just touched one of the vacuum bags in a lithium cell. I just barely got it outside before I burned my house down.

 

[69tr6r]

THe voltage has nothing to do with power. A 360whr battery has 360whr no matter what the voltage. One concern is an external extender battery. Although SZZS does not offer one it can be purchased from 3rd parties but the frame must be modified to accept a 3rd party external battery connector. The problem is that 36v are common, 48v less common but available and 43v is like from mars, nothing is available.
I have an article here on EMTB about adding an external battery. I have been using mine on my bike and my wifes bike with good results for 6 months. The only caveat is that you need to choose a waterproof right angle connector coming out of the frame that handles 20amps. It must clear your crank arm on the left side and it is handy to choose one that will be a direct swap out for the mounting holes of the original connector.

CEF50 External battery build

I took a chance on the CEF50 because I wanted a very light eMTB. Because of that I chose a light battery and planned to get an external battery to supplement the internal on long rides. Two things got in the way, Bafang is way behind on delivering internal batteries let alone their promised...

www.emtbforums.com

There are a number of DIY battery builders in this group. @Laton made an external battery fitting in a frame bag. But be aware that you need skill in building electronic components and have the right tools like a battery welder. I have a lot of experience designing and building drones. I was once prying apart a lithium battery case to replace the batteries and my knife tip just touched one of the vacuum bags in a lithium cell. I just barely got it outside before I burned my house down.

Thanks, and excuse my ignorance. But why would anyone choose 48v instead if 36v if the power is the same?

 

[mike_kelly]

Thanks, and excuse my ignorance. But why would anyone choose 48v instead if 36v if the power is the same?

If you were using the same cells a 48v battery would require more cells but that means the pack would have a higher watt hr rating. So given a 3.7v 10000mah cell a 48v would require 13 and a 36v would require 10. You might have enough space in the down tube for a few more cells but not a whole parallel set, that the 36v might require. So the 48v would be 48x10000ma=480whr where the 36x10000=360whr. So you squeeze more time on the trail out of the 48v battery simply because you have to add a few more cells to make 48v. Now this is a simplification you are not going to use 10,000ma cell but a parallel combination to make 10,000ma.
The 48v requires less current to produce the same power so technically the batteries and motor can be made with lighter conductors to make the whole thing lighter. But it is suggested for economy of scale the makers may build for the highest conductor requirement losing that benefit for the higher voltage battery.

 

[Yozha]

If you were using the same cells a 48v battery would require more cells but that means the pack would have a higher watt hr rating. So given a 3.7v 10000mah cell a 48v would require 13 and a 36v would require 10. You might have enough space in the down tube for a few more cells but not a whole parallel set, that the 36v might require. So the 48v would be 48x10000ma=480whr where the 36x10000=360whr. So you squeeze more time on the trail out of the 48v battery simply because you have to add a few more cells to make 48v. Now this is a simplification you are not going to use 10,000ma cell but a parallel combination to make 10,000ma.
The 48v requires less current to produce the same power so technically the batteries and motor can be made with lighter conductors to make the whole thing lighter. But it is suggested for economy of scale the makers may build for the highest conductor requirement losing that benefit for the higher voltage battery.

Mike, do you think you can fit a 252*77mm external battery in the frame triangle (I'm planning to build a lightweight bike with a 48 volt battery and extender, but I'm suddenly thinking about the size limitation)...?

 

[mike_kelly]

Mike, do you think you can fit a 252*77mm external battery in the frame triangle (I'm planning to build a lightweight bike with a 48 volt battery and extender, but I'm suddenly thinking about the size limitation)...?

Each bike size makes a big difference. My large barely fits my bottle battery. So you need a measure from the size of frame you are using.

Just let us know what size frame you are going use.

 

[Yozha]

Each bike size makes a big difference. My large barely fits my bottle battery. So you need a measure from the size of frame you are using.

Just let us know what size frame you are going to use.

My height is 178 cm (legs are short). I haven't decided exactly L or M yet. What do you think is the best frame size (I'm leaning towards M)?

 

[69tr6r]

My height is 178 cm (legs are short). I haven't decided exactly L or M yet. What do you think is the best frame size (I'm leaning towards M)?

I'm the same height with long legs. I prefer a medium size. I've been riding mountain bikes for a long time. New geometry, like this frame, are much larger bikes than even 5 years ago. I also like a smaller feeling bike.

It really is personal preference, especially when you fall between sizes. It would be good if you can test ride a new mtb and see what modern geometry feels like.

I hope that's helps

 

[ficorama]

Paintjob done

 

[mike_kelly]

My height is 178 cm (legs are short). I haven't decided exactly L or M yet. What do you think is the best frame size (I'm leaning towards M)?

69tr6r is right. With modern geometry the reach is different. I find I would rather have an extra large but the headtube sizes are too small and the reach is too long. So I get a large, to reduce the reach, and extend the headtube . So it is difficult to guess.

 

[Yozha]

69tr6r is right. The radius of action is different in modern geometry. I find that I would like to have a very large size, but the steering tube dimensions are too small and the radius of action is too large. So I take the large to reduce the reach and lengthen the steering tube. So it's hard to speculate.

Thanks for the tips guys! My son rides MTB's too, he's growing a bit shorter so far (175cm) and I want him to be comfortable riding (we swap bikes) so yeah, I think I'll go with a size M.

In that case, Mike your thoughts... Will a 252*77mm external battery in the M frame triangle? (from the photo, the smaller battery will fit in your frame).

I want to build a lightweight bike isped with a small battery + external battery. I think the best option is to match 48v 480wh internal battery + external battery. But I'm afraid that 252*77mm will be too big for a size M frame....

p.s.
sorry for my english - a translator is helping me

 

[mike_kelly]

Thanks for the tips guys! My son rides MTB's too, he's growing a bit shorter so far (175cm) and I want him to be comfortable riding (we swap bikes) so yeah, I think I'll go with a size M.

In that case, Mike your thoughts... Will a 252*77mm external battery in the M frame triangle? (from the photo, the smaller battery will fit in your frame).

I want to build a lightweight bike isped with a small battery + external battery. I think the best option is to match 48v 480wh internal battery + external battery. But I'm afraid that 252*77mm will be too big for a size M frame....

p.s.
sorry for my english - a translator is helping me

No problem @Yozha, I will measure my wife's medium.

 

[ruigato]

Hi,

Can you recommend a seller with a complete bike that uses this frame?
Do it my self and it’s too much for me,

Thanks!

 

[patdam]

Hi,

Can you recommend a seller with a complete bike that uses this frame?
Do it my self and it’s too much for me,

Thanks!

CEF50 and M820 provide a very good bike. But I don't think that is a good idea to purchase it if you don't "love" develop, personalize and put hand inside the mechanic. Mostly today with big brands overstock.