STEPS E8000 Motor Service

[sstenzz]

My 2019 Superior EXF 949R finally threw in the towel after barely 4000km, I'm no longer a Shimano fan.

The motor was starting to make a grinding noise so I followed the Yorkshire rebuild video.

I cleaned it up real nice and replaced the grease which had hardened to black in some places.

The bearings were all fine; then I dropped the torque sensor and cracked the magnet like a clumsy idiot.

Now I have a nice E010.

Is it possible to replace this part and have it work again? I'm thinking of salvaging it from another motor maybe.

Markus @ eMax tuning (great guy btw) told me this:

And if the magnetic ring is broken, game is completely over… You even cannot change the torque sensor to another one of another motor, because each motor need its own calibration data which will be measured and programmed in the Shimano production factory after its assembly in the final test. There is no chance to do this calibration on your own…

The torque sensor looks intact and the circuit boards look very good too, I was expecting a lot more crap inside.

Cheers

 

[KTMJack]

My 2019 Superior EXF 949R finally threw in the towel after barely 4000km, I'm no longer a Shimano fan.

The motor was starting to make a grinding noise so I followed the Yorkshire rebuild video.

I cleaned it up real nice and replaced the grease which had hardened to black in some places.

The bearings were all fine; then I dropped the torque sensor and cracked the magnet like a clumsy idiot.

Now I have a nice E010.

View attachment 119648
Is it possible to replace this part and have it work again? I'm thinking of salvaging it from another motor maybe.

Markus @ eMax tuning (great guy btw) told me this:

The torque sensor looks intact and the circuit boards look very good too, I was expecting a lot more crap inside.

Cheers

I did the same thing Dropped the torque sensor I replaced it and still had a E010

 

[sstenzz]

I did the same thing Dropped the torque sensor I replaced it and still had a E010

Did you replace the whole thing or just the magnet? My hope is that IF the sensor is good I just need the new magnet.

 

[KTMJack]

Did you replace the whole thing or just the magnet? My hope is that IF the sensor is good I just need the new magnet.

I replaced the whole sensor

 

[cream]

Hello,

I've repaired many Shimano steps motors, and I can tell you for sure that you can use a good torque sensor from another motor, no need for recalibration. E010 is a generic error, full error code will pinpoint your problem. If the magnetic ring is broken, then you'll have problem with the cadence sensor, which will also throw an E010 on the screen. The magnetic ring position is read by a sensor placed on a small PCB on the white plastic frame. There are several hardware revisions for E8000 electronics (and mechanics) and some will use different cadence sensor PCB among other things. These are not interchangeable across hardware revisions.

Full error codes:
E01020, 21,22 ---torque sensor related faults
E01030, 31----cadence sensor related faults

 

[cream]

Some closeups

Shimano electronics, a work of art, really. Too bad it's not reliable in EMTB environment.

Besides torque sensor problems, if you have a high mileage steps motor that you drive hard mostly on boost, check your internals and replace your grease. The original grease tends to breakdown at high temperatures and then it oxidize the metal helical gears and then.....

 

[sstenzz]

Well, are you saying I can just put a new magnet on and the E010 will go away then? The assembly is intact I had no error until the magnet cracked.

 

[cream]

Yes, that's what I am saying. Assuming no other part got damaged when you dropped it.

I still have some Shimano motor parts. I can send you a magnetic ring if you're in need.

 

[Spiff]

Its so weird, with the axle i have over here, it seems that it is just one solid piece with the plastic torque sensor mounted fixed on it. There is no need for a roller bearing in that area (there are only fixed parts) and the torque sensor assembly seems to be molded or glued on to the axle so there is no way to get it off.

Im thinkin they changed the design here?

Hi S13, I have a quick question about a two year old post and your 2020 E8000, you said that " the assembly with Torque sensor and large gear are bonded to the long Crankshaft, and that there is no way to get it off" . Was this final or you found a way to remove it.

If it is not possible to remove it, then looks like the removal and install of the large Ball Bearings (6808DD (40x52x7mm) and 6805ZZ (25x37x7mm)) are more difficult. Where you able to do it easily?

I have two motors that I alternate, and the cumulated odometer is around 15.000Km, and so far I had no need to open my motors yet. My first motor from 2018 and my original 504W (at 87%) battery are still running strong. My second motor from 2021 has just passed the warranty period, and although it has no symptoms (no wirring noise, heating...) I know from you and this thread that there is a risk of burnt and solidified grease, so I am planning to open and regrease it and I am re-reading this thread and I came to this old post and hence the question.

In a recent post from sstenzz, there is thes picture where he removed the large gear from the Sprag roller clutch in a 2019 Motor, but in S13 2020 motor the Torque Sensor assembly and sprag roller clutch would still be attached to the crankshaft

​

 

[S13]

No i was not able to separate the torque sensor and crankshaft. But removing the ball bearings can be done perfectly without separation. Perhaps a bit fiddly to get the bearing puller behind them, but from what i could remember they came off without too much trouble. The only thing you cant replace is the needle bearing that is in between the crankshaft and torque sensor. But that needle bearing is a low wear item, so probably doesnt need replacement anyway.

 

[Spiff]

Thank you S13.

 

[Spiff]

After three years reading you guys, I finally opened my E8000 purchased in 2H2021, it has 7500Km and I clean it carefully without water spray, the weather here is dry, although sometimes I have to cross shallow rivers.

After opening the motor I have to say that everything is perfect. No signs of water or grit, all bearings rotate smoothly with no signs of corrossion and the grease is not burnt. The only minor issue is that in some of the gears the grease has migrated out of the teeth. So I will add some Molykote PG75 to the gears and Motorex waterproof grease to the crankshaft seals and thats it.

S13, unlike your 2020 motor, my 2021 motor has the crankshaft big black gear with a sprag clutch inside, the Torque sensor is not glued and it is possible to disassembly as usual. The other black large gear does not have sprag clutch, there are only two of them.

 

[sstenzz]

Yes, that's what I am saying. Assuming no other part got damaged when you dropped it.

I still have some Shimano motor parts. I can send you a magnetic ring if you're in need.

The replacement magnet fixed my motor, E010 Error gone I couldn't be happier \o/

The new lithium grease makes the motor sound a bit different but it works perfectly.

I'm very grateful, thank you cream.

 

[Spiff]

I just found this photo in a German forum, and it shows a E8000 broken bearing, and it can be seen that it it looks like an ENDURO MAX Bearing, that is, balls are not in a cage so there is more space to add adittional balls. So the correct bearings would be:

https://www.bike24.es/productos/174429

https://www.bike24.es/productos/174407

Is this right or I am missing something.

 

[S13]

I would argue that the cage of that bearing was disintegrated a long time ago. And what you see now is just all the balls piling up on one side. As far as i can tell, the lower right corner shows no balls at all?
So no Max bearing if you ask me.

Max bearings are designed for pivot mechanisms under high load (like suspension). Probably not good for any significant amount of RPMs anyway.

 

[sstenzz]

Just an update on my situation, the range seems slightly improved with the new grease (5-10%).

The old hardened black grease was definitely problematic, the new lithium grease is rated up to +180ºC vs. Molykote PG-75 which only goes to +130ºC.

The lithium grease makes the motor sound different but I'm not really bothered, it sounds like it has more grunt but there are no grinding or clicking noises; the bearings appeared fine when inspected.

IMG_7359.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Keep in mind that the sounds are amplified when recorded, it doesn't sound that loud in reality.

Please let me know if you have any feedback.

Cheers

 

[Spiff]

Max bearings are designed for pivot mechanisms under high load (like suspension). Probably not good for any significant amount of RPMs anyway.

I agree that Max bearings are designated for low angular movements and not high RPM, but the crankshaft bearings rotate at rider cadence, than is, a maximum of 120 RPM, I do not know if it is feasible for Max bearings.

 

[S13]

I agree that Max bearings are designated for low angular movements and not high RPM, but the crankshaft bearings rotate at rider cadence, than is, a maximum of 120 RPM, I do not know if it is feasible for Max bearings.

But why would it matter? The regular bearings are more than capable of handling the load. Its the dirt and moisture ingress that destroys them. And a Max bearing wouldnt perform any different in that regard.

 

[Spiff]

But why would it matter? The regular bearings are more than capable of handling the load. Its the dirt and moisture ingress that destroys them. And a Max bearing wouldnt perform any different in that regard.

Cranks get impacts from rocks and this impact is directly transferred to the crankshaft bearing, and more balls in the bearing would better distribute the impact.

Anyway, If I had to replace bearings in any of my two motors I would buy the bearing after removing the old bearing seal and checking if it is caged or not.

 

[Bearing Man]

Cranks get impacts from rocks and this impact is directly transferred to the crankshaft bearing, and more balls in the bearing would better distribute the impact.

Anyway, If I had to replace bearings in any of my two motors I would buy the bearing after removing the old bearing seal and checking if it is caged or not.

Because there is no race inside a max bearing, if used as a radial bearing, the balls run against each other and cause significant wear and premature failure. Years ago, when the Bosch main motor bearings were failing regularly, a rumour spread through the forums that MAX bearings were the way to go because of their strength. They all lasted 5 minutes and people soon went back to radial bearings.

 

[Spiff]

Bearingman, thank you, it is clear now.

BTW, your web Performancelinebearings is not working?

 

[Bearing Man]

Bearingman, thank you, it is clear now.

BTW, your web Performancelinebearings is not working?

Thanks for the heads up @Spiff , I just typed www.performancelinebearings.com and the re-direct seems to be working again now. Although we haven't been called Performance Line Bearings for 2 years now

 

[Spiff]

@S13, @Dario and others, for the motor that had the grinding issue, can you please provide the last digits of your motor Serial Number.

The reason is that it looks to me that these digits are Motor Version, and it would be interesting for others to know the version number of the motors with the bad sprockets than end in the grinding and failures. If my theory is correct, you would have a Version number of F72 or F73A,B or C


I have two motors and I have already opened both of them:

• Version F71 (Last digits of the SN):
  • E8000 motor was in bike purchased in September 2018.
  • It does have the 3 sprag clutch.
  • Large Metal sprocket has a width of 8,3mm
  • The small PCB in the white plastic frame has 1 Integrated circuits.
  • NO grinding issue, I only regreased

• Version F73D (Last digits of the SN)
  • E8000 Motor purchased in a Shimano distributor (NOT ebay) in mid 2021.
  • It does have only 2 sprag clutch.
  • Large Metal sprocket has a width of 9,1mm
  • The small PCB in the white plastic frame has 2 Integrated circuits.
  • NO grinding issue, I only regreased.
  • Power usage improved 28% after regrease

 

[S13]

Ill try to look up the serial# later, but for now i can tell that my faulty grinding motor was one of the later models, one of the last before the EP800 series came out. Bought new on a Canyon bike in 2019.

It had the 2 clutch system and the wider big metal sprocket. Also 2 IC's on the small PCB.
Grinding problems occurred after about 5000km if i recall correctly. Regreasing only helped for a short period of time. Eventually ive replaced the sprockets with a set from an older type E8000, one with the narrow big metal gear. That solved the grinding issue.

It seems that Shimano was aware of the problems with that sprocket. Probably had a lot of returns with sprocket failure due to burned grease. So they made the sprocket wider on a new revision E8000, probably in an attempt to get more grease between the sprockets and to distribute the heat over a wider area. Also eliminating the 3rd clutch could potentially lessen the heat generated in that sprocket.
But still the same problem occurs on these new revision motors... And now they have created a new problem where the margins on the wider sprockets are so small, that rubbing on the side of the teeth occurs and the problem that they were trying to solve in the first place is now exacerbated even more.

The only thing i can think of to remedy this problem is to just regrease the gears every 2000 - 5000km or so (depending on how heavy you use the motor).

 

[Spiff]

I have a motor purchased from a Shimano distributor in 2021 (EP8 was released at the end of 2020) and with official warranty and I just opened it and it is fine, no rubbing or grinding marks and no burned grease:

• Version F73D (Last digits of the SN)
  • E8000 Motor purchased in a Shimano distributor (NOT ebay) in mid 2021.
  • It does have only 2 sprag clutch.
  • Large Metal sprocket has a width of 9,1mm
  • The small PCB in the white plastic frame has 2 Integrated circuits.
  • NO grinding issue, I only regreased.
  • Power usage improved 28% after regrease

 

[Spiff]

I updated the "E8000 Bearing Change" document, in second post of this thread:

STEPS E8000 Motor Service

I've just serviced my E8000 motor and replaced some bearings, it's now working quietly and smoothly like new. If anyone needs any advice, I've got the bearing numbers and some pictures to help see what goes where. Gimme a shout if you are stuck.

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Strindberg]

Hej, here is my Motor I serviced two years ago
(Story in this thread)

 

[Spiff]

Hej, here is my Motor I serviced two years ago
(Story in this thread)
View attachment 121557

Thank you, this SN does not match my theory, so looks like my theory for the Version number is not valid

 

[sstenzz]

Follow up to my grindy motor noise problem, after reading WHEN should you stop pedalling to not DESTROY your motor ? I bit the bullet and dismantled it again on the kitchen table as a nice surprise for my girlfriend before breakfast.

Bearing Man told me its a gear noise and not bearings; more grease wouldn't help me either.
(The brown stuff is not rust it's lithium grease, I will clean it more thoroughly later)

e8000.MOV

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

If the video quality is poor in the browser the file can be downloaded for 1080p.

The only damage seems to be the small helical gear under the big black plastic one but I'm not 100%.

I know Bearing Man doesn't recommend Molykote PG-75 but I have to use something later, so probably PG-75.
I really didn't like the lithium grease, it seems to have broken down quickly (petroleum-based).

franciscoasismm had the same problem and sound in this video E8000 odd sound​

He says the motor still works half-well.

Any feedback is most welcome.

Cheers

 

[andrzejwodejszo]

For 10000% bearings at main motor (last element in Your video. This element is very silent normally when You rotate it by hands.