Shimano Battery Life Poll

[JJT]

What? You're just mentioning now that you're using STunlocker?
You do realise the motor uses more battery when motor assistance no longer stops at 15mph? and ANY climbing above 15mph uses tons more battery. This combined with a super draggy rear tyre is probably contributing far more to your range issues than you realise.
Stick a fast rolling rear tyre on, inflate it to 30psi and reset your settings to limit it to 15mph and then do a similar ride.


Shimano Steps batteries are rated to retain at least 60% of their original battery capacity after 1,000 charging cycles (pretty much impossible to manage within the 2 year warranty period). so yours if showing 83% you're wasting your time trying to get it warrantied.

I mentioned it in first post "Factory settings exc. EU-->US". Lets see, next time I will test EU settings

 

[Deanoemtb]

For those of you who have managed to get you batteries replaced under warranty you contact Shimano direct or do it through your local bikeshop? I'm in the situation now where my battery E8035 is at 80% after 42 cycles and range is significantly affected to how it was when I first got the bike. I'm now struggling to get 16 miles out of a full battery riding in eco only where I used to be able to get 25-30 miles using mixed power modes.
I contacted the bike manufacturer who said to chat with the shop I bought it from but they've switched off phone lines due to covid and seem to be ignoring the emails I've sent them. Was just wondering if anyone has contacted Shimano direct and sorted it themselves........

 

[GM_]

Hi All,

My battery stats (BT E8010, 504wh, top mount)
1) # of charging cycles = 92
2) remaining capacity = 87%
3) charger = EC-E6000 (slow charger)

The battery is 2 years old, always stored and charged inside the house. I usually finish my rides at 20 to 50% state of charge, then I recharge the battery to 100%. The above stats seems OK, but in practice the battery performance is much more worse.

I've read in this topic and also in the Shimano / Battery life topic, that some of you experienced, that the battery cuts off at lower charge percentage levels. The same issues exits for my battery as well.

I've reported the issue to my local bike dealer, with some detailed description, they forwarded it to the local Shimano representative, but there was no reaction. After while my dealer provided me replacment battery (17 cycles, 92% capacity) for testing, the outcome was really self explanatory.

The first the was done to ride short laps around the nearby streets on a flat terrain. Intial charge level was 20% for both battery. My battery (RED) depleted after 11 km if riding, and I was able to ride 21km with the replacment one (GREEN). My battery has very steep non linear discharge characteristic the other one is more or less linear.

My other test ride was 50km+ ride around the nearby hills. My battery shut down after 54,5 km, the other battery had 36% remaining charge level at the end of the ride.

This info was also shared to Shimano, (it was in 2020 Nov) and still no answer from them! I'm really pissed up on the attitude of Hungarian Shimano representative, this not the support that we expecting for such an expensive stuff.

Do you have any experience with warranty replacement? Are there anybody who had similar issues, and got a new battery from Shimano?

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

 

[Growmac]

Very interesting. How did you get those graphs? That's exactly the sort of thing that I need to obtain. I have just bought a new E8035 battery, so have that to compare to my 81% health battery.

 

[Dave_B]

Where did you buy your battery from?

 

[Growmac]

Got it from my local bike shop: TT Cycles in BoA. I ride with one of the guys from the shop so he sorted it for me.

 

[InRustWeTrust]

it's sad that shimano does not seem to care about everyone who has problems with their battery.

has anyone had help with battery replacement or troubleshooting of their battery by shimano?

 

[JimBo]

This post describes my theory - based on 5+ years' experience - on storing ebike batteries at 100% for daze/weeks/months on-end.
This post too...

 

[InRustWeTrust]

This post describes my theory - based on 5+ years' experience - on storing ebike batteries at 100% for daze/weeks/months on-end.
This post too...

Wow if this really works it is amazing, i am gonna try with my new battery to never leave it at 100% to see if I see a difference.

 

[GM_]

Very interesting. How did you get those graphs? That's exactly the sort of thing that I need to obtain. I have just bought a new E8035 battery, so have that to compare to my 81% health battery.

I've created this graphs manually in Excel, the battery percentage was read from Etube project (tablet version!) at the end of each lap / or at certain locations.

 

[electricbogaloo]

This post describes my theory - based on 5+ years' experience - on storing ebike batteries at 100% for daze/weeks/months on-end.
This post too...

Yeah what everyone describes here is basically the normal aging prices of Lithium ion batteries. As far as I know bosch uses similar if not the same cells, so the only difference would be the charger/BMS and the motor pulling energy. But those should be similar. Bosch batteries age too.

These cell types don't become some magic technology once Shimano or bosch put their label on the shell. So if you use them heavily in all kinds of temperatures and charge states capacity will drop really fast.

I also had to keep the battery fully charged for 2-3 days for trips with a campervan and I think that was about when it dropped to 99 and 98 percent health.

 

[jimbob]

Yeah what everyone describes here is basically the normal aging prices of Lithium ion batteries. As far as I know bosch uses similar if not the same cells, so the only difference would be the charger/BMS and the motor pulling energy. But those should be similar. Bosch batteries age too.

These cell types don't become some magic technology once Shimano or bosch put their label on the shell. So if you use them heavily in all kinds of temperatures and charge states capacity will drop really fast.

I also had to keep the battery fully charged for 2-3 days for trips with a campervan and I think that was about when it dropped to 99 and 98 percent health.

Out of interest, do you have any evidence they use the same cells? Or do you mean the 18650 cell format?

Different cells can have very different performance based on just very small changes to the chemistry.

 

[electricbogaloo]

Not really. I think it's jthe cell format but at least for the shimano batteries people have dissasembled them and know which cells are in use. I think for bosch this is the same. But I can't link it right now. I just don't think that they use vastly different designs. Every ebike battery should behave and age roughly in the same described pattern. BMS can influence this but in the end every battery will age with time in relation to how it was treated and if you empty any lithium battery with high energy drain at some point the BMS will shut it off to avoid deep discharge.

Found something:

sonstige(s) - Bosch-Akku-Leistungsabbau

Hallo zusammen, ich bin jetzt ziemlich genau zwei Jahre lang meinen Bosch Powerpack 400 gefahren. Ich habe mich immer gefragt, wie es dem Akku geht, da ich ihn unter den wahrscheinlich härtestmöglichen Bedingungen rangenommen habe. Ich habe auch noch ein Powerpack 500, vor einigen Monaten...

www.pedelecforum.de

Steps-Akku BT-E8010 "504Wh", extern (Reichweite, Probleme, Fragen)

Es wurden immer die höchsten Unterstützungsstufen benutzt.

www.pedelecforum.de

So BT-8010 uses Sony I Murata VC7 18650 3500mAh 8A

and Bosch 500 Power Pack: probably Samsung 35E

But it sounds like they often switch between models and the 8035 battery could use different ones than 8010 which would explain the faster aging.

It sucks that magazines and youtubers are not disclosing that information. They could open the batteries without having to worry about warranty as much. But they probably don't want to ruin the bonds to the manufacturers. I wanna get in depth analysis not some stupid ass drag race.

 

[Milan]

Hi Gents, I would like to ask a small favor from those , who have 8035 battery and NO DEGRADATION with more than 10 cycles !
Could you please check with your dealer readout the FW version of the battery ?
View attachment 44567
Mine has been read out today by my dealer&service, and I have catched this part that battery has a FW inside.
If you check that with Etube app or STunlocker , than this info is hidden. Ergo you can not upgrade the fw on the battery by yourself.

That made my theory that i believe there is a bug in the Battery Management System (BMS) and if we can find a battery which has 100% health and 10 or more cycles and higher FW version. Than that is it.

Certainly ,how you store and charge and use your battery will affect the lifetime.
However I trully beileve that I checked mine on 9th cycle and said 100% and when it hit 10th cycle than it dropped 90% can not be coincident. There was nothing in between like 98%, or 97% etc... immediatelly 10% out. That is why I do have this theory.

With your kind help, I think we can have some understanding and might be a root cause here. That's why I am counting on the support of this nice community !

Of course mine has been offcially claimed at Shimano as well by my dealer. I will feed you back about the answer.

Thanks again !

I have just filed a warranty claim 77% (92 cycles), if I get a new one I can observe this daily. I bike daily 30 to 60 km. I can follow all the best practices as shown in this thread.

 

[Milan]

Not sure if this thread is about ALL Shimano batteries or just the 8035, I downloaded ST-unlocker yesterday to check mine after reading this and becoming curious.
I've got the 8010 battery and the bike is a 2019 model, so the battery is at least 2 years old. It said the health was 95% and had 43 cycles/chargers(?). So I'm guessing that it doesn't count every recharge as a cycle as I only part charge it sometimes to a guesstimate of around 60/70% of full charge? I only finish to fully charged the night before a big ride. And in the 18 months I've had the bike, I would have charged it a lot more than 43 times.
The 'Better Half' has the same motor and battery as mine, though only has 1/10th of the mileage at 250km and her battery reads 99% and 6 cycles. Again, I've charged it more than 6 times. Hope all of this is of some help

Yes, 8035 spoils it. Guika and all 8035 owners, we should probably have a separate thread. There is definately something wrong with this type of battery. Bought an old Ghost last week with an external battery, 2 yrs old or so, 94% and 42 cycles.

 

[jimbob]

Yes, 8035 spoils it. Guika and all 8035 owners, we should probably have a separate thread. There is definately something wrong with this type of battery. Bought an old Ghost last week with an external battery, 2 yrs old or so, 94% and 42 cycles.

Could be a good idea to start a separate thread. There is a lot of information contained in here on the 8035 problems seen, would be good to also summarise and put into one place.

 

[chtabajara]

All the same crap pattern happen with me, brand new bike, two months of use.


The range that was shown when the battery was up to 9 cycles was 100km in eco mode, now when it has turned 10 cycles, health has dropped to 90% and range dropped to 89 in ECO mode. Today I did a trail until I ran out of battery(to try to "reset the bms" and I didn't have an eco reserve. 51km with 1200 meters of elevation gain

My battery stats (BT E8035, 504wh)
1) # of charging cycles = 10
2) remaining capacity = 90%
3) charger = EC-E6002

 

[Growmac]

The range that was shown when the battery was up to 9 cycles was 100km in eco mode, now when it has turned 10 cycles, health has dropped to 90% and range dropped to 89 in ECO mode. Today I did a trail until I ran out of battery(to try to "reset the bms" and I didn't have an eco reserve. 51km with 1200 meters of elevation gain

Yep, all exactly the same as we have all found. Just rubbish.

 

[Milan]

All the same crap pattern happen with me, brand new bike, two months of use.


The range that was shown when the battery was up to 9 cycles was 100km in eco mode, now when it has turned 10 cycles, health has dropped to 90% and range dropped to 89 in ECO mode. Today I did a trail until I ran out of battery(to try to "reset the bms" and I didn't have an eco reserve. 51km with 1200 meters of elevation gain

My battery stats (BT E8035, 504wh)
1) # of charging cycles = 10
2) remaining capacity = 90%
3) charger = EC-E6002

Very sad though, how about we set up a thread for E8035, provide sufficient stats and talk to Shimano? I love my bike and I am certain that even if Shimano warranties the battery, I will very soon face the same issue: fast degrading and loss of range. It has nothing to do with proper care. This particular battery, unfortunately, is designed to degrade faster than other types.

 

[Milan]

What shall we call this new thread "Shimano BT-E8035 Integrated Battery Issue: very fast degrading and loss of range"?

 

[chtabajara]

What shall we call this new thread "Shimano BT-E8035 Integrated Battery Issue: very fast degrading and loss of range"?

agree!

 

[chtabajara]

I know that the range indicator is just an estimate and we shouldn't take that into account. But I think it would be cool to compare the bt8010 to the bt8035 battery. up to 9 cycles always showed 100km of automatic in ECO mode, when it went to 10 cycle it dropped to 89.

Anyone with an 8010 battery with 40 cycles or more who can confirm this information? how many km of range is shown on the display with a full load.

 

[Milan]

I know that the range indicator is just an estimate and we shouldn't take that into account. But I think it would be cool to compare the bt8010 to the bt8035 battery. up to 9 cycles always showed 100km of automatic in ECO mode, when it went to 10 cycle it dropped to 89.

Anyone with an 8010 battery with 40 cycles or more who can confirm this information? how many km of range is shown on the display with a full load.

This ECO mode thing is basically reading of the battery capacity. So, if you have a new bike, the range it shows is 100 km. If you have an old bike, like I do, it shows you prior to your ride 76 km. It only tells you the current capacity of the battery. Which basically means that if you do not use the battery much, you can do 76 km but if you start using it in a way that corresponds the ups and downs, you will end up having the range that is adequate to the capacity. If not clear enough, any user of any Shimano battery might have in ECO mode a certain range. This range represents the capacity of the battery. If you happen to be an owner of E8035 and your battery tells you 76%, you most likely know that you will be happy to make 20-30 km. If you are an owner of any other type and it tells you 94 km range, you will be able to make 40-45 km using the assistance reasonably going ups and downs. I am getting skinnier and skinnier so please do not respond with the weight and stuff like that. E8035 is a crap and there needs to be done someting about it.

 

[Milan]

Hi all unhappy e8035 owners, I have moved our cause here Shimano BT-E8035 Issue , please provide you stats and if havng sufficient numbers we can get in touch with Shimano. Anybody having a warranty lawyer who would be willing to helps us with this?

 

[Monkey Dog]

One year of ownership this month.
E8010 battery, 2136k, 99% health and 18 cycles.
I'm happy with that

 

[jimbob]

At 18cycles in 1 year, you need to be riding more!

 

[OldGoatMTB]

One year of ownership this month.
E8010 battery, 2136k, 99% health and 18 cycles.
I'm happy with that

Very similar results. 33 cycles, 2002 km, 99% health.

 

[rafaellop]

In addition to the distance giving some elevation would be useful or at least the riding style, commuting or mountain biking, etc. 2kkm on flat is not the same for one battery as 2k in the mountains for another.

 

[Growmac]

In addition to the distance giving some elevation would be useful or at least the riding style, commuting or mountain biking, etc. 2kkm on flat is not the same for one battery as 2k in the mountains for another.

The charge cycles give you that information much better than anything else. Km/cycle actually might be a pretty good way of measuring how well the battery is doing?

 

[rafaellop]

Mine is 4700 km, 83%, 117 cycles. What would you say about the usage?