Pole Voima swing arm CRACKED

[Plummet]

Both swingarms on my 2nd gen Voima crumpled landing a small jump but clearly there must have been cracks growing for a while. The rips in the failed swingarms started exactly where the problem spot is where the lower linkage bolts up.

Pole replaced swingarms and linkages just before they went under. Took about 3 months from warranty request to get the redesigned swingarms.

View attachment 139512

6’4” 235lbs. Guess you could say I’m hard on bikes as this is definitely not my first cracked frame.

Some POV video from our local to give an idea of what kind of riding led to the failure in case that’s helpful:

That fucken sucks. Now you have an expensive wall hanging.

What bike are you going to get next?

 

[Blownoutrides]

That fucken sucks. Now you have an expensive wall hanging.

What bike are you going to get next?

So far so good with the redesigned swingarms. Had planned to sell the Voima once they’d arrived and get a Crestline but I think I’d have to pay someone to take the Pole off my hands now that they’re done.

Hoping we’ll see more selection in the long travel ebike market in the next couple years. I’m tall so prefer a 29” rear and a longer chainstay to go with the longer reach. Only a few manufacturers have started offering chainstays that are actually proportional. Right now I think only Crestline ticks all the boxes, but after this experience with a boutique manufacturer I’m a little gun shy.

Curious what the next iteration of the Bullit and Kenevo (non-SL) will look like. They should be landing in the next year or so.

What’s your game plan?

 

[Plummet]

So far so good with the redesigned swingarms. Had planned to sell the Voima once they’d arrived and get a Crestline but I think I’d have to pay someone to take the Pole off my hands now that they’re done.

Hoping we’ll see more selection in the long travel ebike market in the next couple years. I’m tall so prefer a 29” rear and a longer chainstay to go with the longer reach. Only a few manufacturers have started offering chainstays that are actually proportional. Right now I think only Crestline ticks all the boxes, but after this experience with a boutique manufacturer I’m a little gun shy.

Curious what the next iteration of the Bullit and Kenevo (non-SL) will look like. They should be landing in the next year or so.

What’s your game plan?

Oh that's better, I thought the broken bits were the new swingarm.

Crestline also. But it's expensive as feck in nz. About the same price as a whole complete voima just for the frame.

I'm about a year put from being able to swap out. Hopefully a Phoenix will rise from the ashes of pole in that time allowing for part replacements and a better resale value.

If the bike goes down in that time I'll be back full time on the mtb until the cash allows for a frame upgrade.

 

[Rudolf Diesel]

Oh that's better, I thought the broken bits were the new swingarm.

Crestline also. But it's expensive as fuck in nz. About the same price as a whole complete voima just for the frame.

I'm about a year put from being able to swap out. Hopefully a Phoenix will rise from the ashes of pole in that time allowing for part replacements and a better resale value.

If the bike goes down in that time I'll be back full time on the mtb until the cash allows for a frame upgrade.

I went crestline as well. get it underway before the pole cracked.
not to many options for long travel emtb's out there.

 

[Durrti]

I’ve gone the way of the Orbea Wild, and the lack of travel is made up in spades with the playful nimble way the Wild rides. Don’t miss my 190/190 at all.

 

[Plummet]

I’ve gone the way of the Orbea Wild, and the lack of travel is made up in spades with the playful nimble way the Wild rides. Don’t miss my 190/190 at all.

I still want big travel for my e. Iove the playfulness of my 165/170 mtb. But also love smashing dh chunk on a big travel monster. Sooo much fun.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I only know 2 people in my local markets that bought Poles (not Voimas). Both broke, one rear end and one was the frame. One broke after about 20 minutes of riding. It's just an inferior method of bicycle production, plain and simply.

Funny thing is that our terrain, while chunky and plenty of janky drops and g-outs, mostly isn't real big.

The Crestline is the best full power e-bike made right now and I'd be curious if they would sell you just the frame, without the Bosch motor, so that those with broken Poles can get something useful from their Voimas that end up 'totaled'.

Really sorry that this happened to you guys/ gals.

 

[Plummet]

I only know 2 people in my local markets that bought Poles (not Voimas). Both broke, one rear end and one was the frame. One broke after about 20 minutes of riding. It's just an inferior method of bicycle production, plain and simply.

Funny thing is that our terrain, while chunky and plenty of janky drops and g-outs, mostly isn't real big.

The Crestline is the best full power e-bike made right now and I'd be curious if they would sell you just the frame, without the Bosch motor, so that those with broken Poles can get something useful from their Voimas that end up 'totaled'.

Really sorry that this happened to you guys/ gals.

It would be nice if I could by a motorless and batteryless Crestline. I doubt troyden would go for it. But maybe if enough people asked he would work a frame bail put package for pole owners than benefited both of Crestline and voima owners.

 

[Onetime]

It would be nice if I could by a motorless and batteryless Crestline. I doubt troyden would go for it. But maybe if enough people asked he would work a frame bail put package for pole owners than benefited both of Crestline and voima owners.

Unfortunately you wouldn’t be able to use your old Voima battery. Ours are vertical and the Crestline uses a horizontal battery. Also I don’t think you can order it with the swingarm sensor/rotor magnet so derestricting it would be harder to do. I also don’t like how the control unit is on the underside of the top tube and a Kiox display on top. I don’t want or need a Kiox display. I love my Voima and I’m going to keep on riding it until I can’t anymore. Then I’ll consider a new replacement. I’m still hoping they get bought out and can continue producing awesome bikes. Sure there have been some breakage, but all bike companies have had their issues with breakage. They’re unique, they are one of the few that make a long travel, full power Bosch race motor with great geometry that rips up as well as it does down. Having said that, I do like the look of the new Nicolai Saturn 16 MGU. It has the new Pinion MGU and belt drive so it should be virtually maintenance free. The problem for me is it’s only 160/160 travel. Awesome looking bike though. They also sell another model with the Bosch race motor and a regular drivetrain too, but also only 160/160.

 

[Darkyhs]

Somehow I get a feeling that Pole will continue. In the event they go on, I am thinking to ask to buy the "new" swing arm(s) directly to ensure if they have any issues in the future, at least the bike is covered and I no longer have the fear of breaking the bike and remaining with an amazing Allu Front Triangle on my wall. What's your opinion on this?

 

[tooFATtoRIDE]

Somehow I get a feeling that Pole will continue. In the event they go on, I am thinking to ask to buy the "new" swing arm(s) directly to ensure if they have any issues in the future, at least the bike is covered and I no longer have the fear of breaking the bike and remaining with an amazing Allu Front Triangle on my wall. What's your opinion on this?

I have exactly the same view and I would like to have a spare set. However, until the bankruptcy proceedings are concluded, nothing could be sold and that includes swing arms.

 

[ilostmypassword]

Hi Leo,
Yesterday after riding my Voima (april 2022, before led), a cap a small swingarm almost felt off. It seems to be glued in. Just glue it in again? Is the cap a part of the structure (I guess so ;-)).
What can I do about it? Other side seems to be OK.
Thanks,
Sander, the Netherlands

View attachment 127480

If this was an aeroplane it would be fine

 

[RoJo]

So far so good with the redesigned swingarms. Had planned to sell the Voima once they’d arrived and get a Crestline but I think I’d have to pay someone to take the Pole off my hands now that they’re done.

Hoping we’ll see more selection in the long travel ebike market in the next couple years. I’m tall so prefer a 29” rear and a longer chainstay to go with the longer reach. Only a few manufacturers have started offering chainstays that are actually proportional. Right now I think only Crestline ticks all the boxes, but after this experience with a boutique manufacturer I’m a little gun shy.

Curious what the next iteration of the Bullit and Kenevo (non-SL) will look like. They should be landing in the next year or so.

What’s your game plan?

Crestline performance and service is excellent.
Sure they might be "boutique" but having the best product available buys them some security, plus look at the major brands: Kona, Nukeproof/Vitus, and even Trek, so I don't think that buying a big brand is necessary safer.

 

[Joselete!]

The worst of the omens has come true, the right swim arm of my Pole Voima V1 has cracked.
3980 km of enduro and pure pleasure that have come to an end.
Now what? I have tried to open a ticket to support but when you upload photos and files, upon completion, the website goes blank and I do not receive any confirmation email.
I am totally saddened, it is not even 2 years old and it is without a doubt the best bike I have had in my 25 years of riding in all forms.

 

[Durrti]

Keep me posted if anyone breaks a left/non-drive side arm as I still have my original. Pole sent me a new set when my broke, but only wanted the broken one back.

 

[Bollox]

Keep me posted if anyone breaks a left/non-drive side arm as I still have my original. Pole sent me a new set when my broke, but only wanted the broken one back.

Pretty sure that it's the non-drive side on mine that went (can't remember, and at work)- what would you want for your spare (which may crack the next day :-/ )?

 

[Tomska23]

I will be conducting an experiment on my swingarms. It includes sanding down all the surfaces to smooth finish that are prone to cracking due to fatique and or the combination of heavy riding.
There are multiple sources on metallurgy that study the effects of surface finish to fatique strength. The studies would almost always correlate rougher surface finish to worsened fatique strength in alloys (7075 used in pole). Every crevice between the machining lines that are left during roughening with a ball-head mill leave possibilities for fatique microscopic cracking which then starts its journey to form a visible crack in the alloy. Reducing these stress concentration points in this high stress area most likely will reduce the amount of stress concentrations and give a longer fatique life to the alloy. One could argue that removing alloy from the surface would create a smaller section of the profile and thus lead to higher stress. This is not a thing that should be taken into account since the low points between the grooves are already that minimun cross sectional area and removing the high points of the machining marks would make the cross sections even with the low points. When designing the parts in CAD you make a cross section based on the model and the ball-mills end point will follow that profile leaving a minimun of that designed cross sectional area. All the high points are not considered in the CAD models but rather left from the machining process as additional material. More material in this and in many case does not correlate to higher capability to withstand forces but rather make it more vulnerable to cracking.

Enough said. Id like to hear your opinions too before i make anything permanent. Lets argue!

 

[Plummet]

View attachment 140740
I will be conducting an experiment on my swingarms. It includes sanding down all the surfaces to smooth finish that are prone to cracking due to fatique and or the combination of heavy riding.
There are multiple sources on metallurgy that study the effects of surface finish to fatique strength. The studies would almost always correlate rougher surface finish to worsened fatique strength in alloys (7075 used in pole). Every crevice between the machining lines that are left during roughening with a ball-head mill leave possibilities for fatique microscopic cracking which then starts its journey to form a visible crack in the alloy. Reducing these stress concentration points in this high stress area most likely will reduce the amount of stress concentrations and give a longer fatique life to the alloy. One could argue that removing alloy from the surface would create a smaller section of the profile and thus lead to higher stress. This is not a thing that should be taken into account since the low points between the grooves are already that minimun cross sectional area and removing the high points of the machining marks would make the cross sections even with the low points. When designing the parts in CAD you make a cross section based on the model and the ball-mills end point will follow that profile leaving a minimun of that designed cross sectional area. All the high points are not considered in the CAD models but rather left from the machining process as additional material. More material in this and in many case does not correlate to higher capability to withstand forces but rather make it more vulnerable to cracking.

Enough said. Id like to hear your opinions too before i make anything permanent. Lets argue!

View attachment 140739

You are 100% correct. Sharp direction changes in a design create stress risers and points of additional load that can lead to failure. Sanding back the machining at the point of failure will not reduce the strength, it will increase it slightly, until you get to a point of starting to remove base material.

However, and its a big however. The stress riser that's killing swing arms is the sharp direction change from thinner width section to the thicker width section. As you can see with this broken swing arm (not mine) the crack propagated from the radius point where minimal machining marks exist.

You cannot sand away this design flaw. I expect the result of sanding to smooth will be negligible. If it is going to fail there with the loads you are apply it will do so whether you sand it or not. Maybe it will give you and extra week before failing or 2 weeks. But ultimately the design flaw remains.

Also consider that as soon as you sand it you will remove any warrantee that may still exist. As we sit right now, there is still a chance that Pole will continue in some form or another, and there is a chance that your warrantee will remain intact. My call is to wait it out until we the outcome of the insolvency is declared. Also as soon as you sand it, you will reduce the value for a potential buy should you decided to sell. Hold out and wait. See what will happen with Pole. Then if there is no warrantee's and if you dont care about resale, the go about removing stress risers.

 

[Plummet]

Unfortunately you wouldn’t be able to use your old Voima battery. Ours are vertical and the Crestline uses a horizontal battery. Also I don’t think you can order it with the swingarm sensor/rotor magnet so derestricting it would be harder to do. I also don’t like how the control unit is on the underside of the top tube and a Kiox display on top. I don’t want or need a Kiox display. I love my Voima and I’m going to keep on riding it until I can’t anymore. Then I’ll consider a new replacement. I’m still hoping they get bought out and can continue producing awesome bikes. Sure there have been some breakage, but all bike companies have had their issues with breakage. They’re unique, they are one of the few that make a long travel, full power Bosch race motor with great geometry that rips up as well as it does down. Having said that, I do like the look of the new Nicolai Saturn 16 MGU. It has the new Pinion MGU and belt drive so it should be virtually maintenance free. The problem for me is it’s only 160/160 travel. Awesome looking bike though. They also sell another model with the Bosch race motor and a regular drivetrain too, but also only 160/160.

Yeah, I don't need the kiox display either and would prefer the control unit on top.
But If i wrote down a geo spec sheet that i think is ideal for me the mullet crestline RS 180 is pretty much it.

So I am still keen.

But a gearbox e bike is intriguing to me. If a 180mm model comes out i'll be looking real close. 160mm is dead to me.....
I also need to replace my mtb. So, im hoping the voima holds out for another year or so and ultimately that pole continues so I can get back to the solid business of riding the bike like i stole it.

Right now I'm a bit reluctant to send features that might break the bike. I like sending those features!

 

[TheSnowShark]

If I had bought the Voima, I think I would seriously consider remaking these parts with carbon ..

 

[Plummet]

If I had bought the Voima, I think I would seriously consider remaking these parts with carbon ..

That's a multi hundred hour exercise. Possible, but very very time consuming.

 

[TheSnowShark]

By coming together among the owners, this should significantly reduce costs... but it is certain that remaking molds will be a very big job..

 

[Plummet]

By coming together among the owners, this should significantly reduce costs... but it is certain that remaking molds will be a very big job..

Its something I could do if there was enough demand. But I suspect it would be like herding cats trying to get commitment out of owners. It would take some time to undertake the process as well. Prototype, testing,,,,, maybe 6 months minumum. Probably 1 year in reality. Hell i'd want to test a protoype for at least 6months before unleashing it on anyone.

 

[Plummet]

By coming together among the owners, this should significantly reduce costs... but it is certain that remaking molds will be a very big job..

If i was going down the CNC route it would something like this. Milled out one piece to get rid of the delaminating issue.
It would be heavier bur we would remove the stress risers at the failure points......

I'll wait and see what happens with Pole. Then if it dies a death I could look at making some parts. But it is a big undertaking and i dont have a cnc mill. So it would all be subbed contracted at full rates.....

 

[TheSnowShark]

Its something I could do if there was enough demand. But I suspect it would be like herding cats trying to get commitment out of owners. It would take some time to undertake the process as well. Prototype, testing,,,,, maybe 6 months minumum. Probably 1 year in reality. Hell i'd want to test a protoype for at least 6months before unleashing it on anyone.

Time is not a big deal, as long as a solution is possible at the end of the tunnel..

 

[Plummet]

Time is not a big deal, as long as a solution is possible at the end of the tunnel..

Well time is a big deal to anyone who now doesn't have a bike to ride.

Do they wait 6 to 12 months or do they move on, cut their losses and buy a new bike.

 

[TheSnowShark]

It's always better than hanging it on the wall for the rest of your life !

 

[Plummet]

It's always better than hanging it on the wall for the rest of your life !

Yeah, but there's a cost involved. Do you sink more money into something that another part could break on and be costly to fix or put that towards a new frame.

If my frame breaks I will be seriously asking that question. Should I invest the time, effort and money into a repair or move on and buy a frame that is supported.

 

[TheSnowShark]

Obviously it's a matter of personal choice... but I think if I was involved, I would do it !

 

[RustyIron]

Lets argue!

I'm your huckleberry.
To begin with, long before you start thinking about your swingarm, you need to get to work on that crack in your garage floor.

I feel for you Pole owners. You're really getting boned But I'm not surprised that the company is having problems. Their machined frames caught my eye when they came out. Not because I like them, but because it seemed like a goofy idea. Everyone else is hydroforming or making carbon frames in molds. It's an economical and well established process. But Pole wanted to machine each part in a very expensive machine using a time-consuming process. I couldn't figure that one out, but just assumed that they knew more about production than I do, and wrote it off. In retrospect, we can see it's a bad idea.

But regarding your actual question, I'm not 100% certain. Maybe your idea will help mitigate potential failure. But it will be VERY time consuming. If I was in your position, I'd keep a very close eye on the swingarm. If a minute crack starts to form, I'd reinforce it and weld it up. Maybe reinforcing and welding would be a good proactive measure. I'd do that before grinding it down.