New Santa Cruz model

[irie]

In-depth motor breakdown

Nothing in that video suggests that water ingress problems with Bosch CX Gen4 been addressed with the CX Gen5 ...

 

[Dax]

Anyone in the loop know if SC are planning to bring out a longer travel bike with the Bosch gen5 to phase out the current shape Bullit, like they've done with the Vala and Heckler?

Seems likely but nothing confirmed. Gossip is that Pivot are going to do the same with the Shuttle LT in the next few months

 

[Redlemon]

I could see the big plough bike with the 800 battery too

I also think they will spec the 800wh.

Limiting the Vala to the 600wh was a mistake in my mind, full power eMTBs should always have a large battery option instead of being forced to plug in a range extender like SL eMTBs.

 

[Jhill]

Rumor is Bullit is next year. I’d assume 4 bar bosch but have heard one person mention seeing proto last winter and was vpp, my bet is they were confused. I’m not familiar with how Bosch battery system works but I’d hope the 600 could slide into an 800 down tube and fit giving the option to use either and then the extra carbon material would matter on a Bullit but personally I’d probably opt for the 600. I’ve never really even come close to killing my 630 shimano Bullit.

Oh and it better have a battery that comes out easily like the current and like Treks done. Otherwise I’ll like to see Danny and Peaty do a re do on the new bikes. I’ll bet the Vala can’t

 

[Biano44]

Have Santa Cruz missed a trick?

 

[TheMirrorVision]

Have Santa Cruz missed a trick?

DJI definitely appears to be the innovation leader with best-in-class performance in the lightest overall packaging. If DJI's system is as reliable as Bosch's after a couple of years then Bosch will really have to step up their game.

 

[Redlemon]

Have Santa Cruz missed a trick?

They didn't miss anything as it would be a major gamble to go DJI right now with no proven reliability or anything, going Bosch was the best decision for them.

DJI is also Chinese and DJI drones are about to get banned in the USA as a reference. Canada is also fighting against some Chinese products, specific import duties are definitely a possibility.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Rumour has it the gen5 might see an update to give it more power, like they did with the gen 4. A 100nm w 800w peak , along with their current advancements and serviceability, on a gen 5 would keep the focus on bosch IMO

 

[Jhill]

Going off DJI history and reputation I don’t think it’s much gamble, they basically take over whatever market they enter and this one appears no different. Also Bosch appears (no first hand experience) to follow the same German mentality of not being consumer convenient, any updates require you to bring your stuff in. It’s 2024 anyone with an ebike has a smart phone or laptop just let us flash the unit and be done with it like Shimano and I have no doubts DJI would be the same for any future fixes/improvements. Not mentioned in the review is also their charging technology blows everyone else out of the water. Good thing I won’t be in the market for another ebike for a while because by then I’m sure they’ll have more DJI equipped bike options.

 

[Redlemon]

Going off DJI history and reputation I don’t think it’s much gamble, they basically take over whatever market they enter and this one appears no different. Also Bosch appears (no first hand experience) to follow the same German mentality of not being consumer convenient, any updates require you to bring your stuff in. It’s 2024 anyone with an ebike has a smart phone or laptop just let us flash the unit and be done with it like Shimano and I have no doubts DJI would be the same for any future fixes/improvements. Not mentioned in the review is also their charging technology blows everyone else out of the water. Good thing I won’t be in the market for another ebike for a while because by then I’m sure they’ll have more DJI equipped bike options.

So you're telling me choosing a new player in the market with no history at all, very limited product support & distribution and no reliability data would be a safe bet for them ? Yeah right.

Santa Cruz faced a lot of criticism because of poor reliability of EP8 and Fazua systems in the last few years, I can guarantee you that finally going with a proven and reliable system like Bosch will pay off a lot for them.

 

[Jhill]

So you're telling me choosing a new player in the market with no history at all, very limited product support & distribution and no reliability data would be a safe bet for them ? Yeah right.

Santa Cruz faced a lot of criticism because of poor reliability of EP8 and Fazua systems in the last few years, I can guarantee you that finally going with a proven and reliable system like Bosch will pay off a lot for them.

Going off dji company history no I wouldn’t be too worried, anything they make they end up doing better than anyone else and it’s looking like the same will be happening here. Look how many people already complaining the Vala doesn’t have an 800w battery, the amflow is lighter than the Vala, has an 800w batt, more power, fast responsive touch screen and quick charging. With the loss of vpp now it makes the bike much more directly comparable to other offerings that are also 4 bar so we will see how the Vala plays out. Personally my ep8 has been flawless, can’t say the same on my friends Bosch with two rides that turns itself off after every impact.

 

[Biano44]

Rumour has it the gen5 might see an update to give it more power, like they did with the gen 4. A 100nm w 800w peak , along with their current advancements and serviceability, on a gen 5 would keep the focus on bosch IMO

Yes, I’d read about the same rumours of a near 20% increase power which makes the 600w battery decision all the more strange as more power will rinse the battery quicker.

 

[Bndit]

Going off DJI history and reputation I don’t think it’s much gamble, they basically take over whatever market they enter and this one appears no different. Also Bosch appears (no first hand experience) to follow the same German mentality of not being consumer convenient, any updates require you to bring your stuff in. It’s 2024 anyone with an ebike has a smart phone or laptop just let us flash the unit and be done with it like Shimano and I have no doubts DJI would be the same for any future fixes/improvements. Not mentioned in the review is also their charging technology blows everyone else out of the water. Good thing I won’t be in the market for another ebike for a while because by then I’m sure they’ll have more DJI equipped bike options.

All riders are not interested touch screens and all that shit while they are riding, some could say that there are people who rides to stay away all screens and enjoy nature and riding. And there are people who thinks that everything should not be owned by chinese. And there are people who appreciate ride quality over power. And there are riders using mainly trail mode and not boost all the time. And there are bike companies who also appreciate these things and make their bikes accordingly.

 

[Redlemon]

Going off dji company history no I wouldn’t be too worried, anything they make they end up doing better than anyone else and it’s looking like the same will be happening here. Look how many people already complaining the Vala doesn’t have an 800w battery, the amflow is lighter than the Vala, has an 800w batt, more power, fast responsive touch screen and quick charging. With the loss of vpp now it makes the bike much more directly comparable to other offerings that are also 4 bar so we will see how the Vala plays out. Personally my ep8 has been flawless, can’t say the same on my friends Bosch with two rides that turns itself off after every impact.

A large company like Santa Cruz can't be taking business decisions based on guesses, that motor didn't even hit the market yet....give it some time before any serious bike company even consider them.

I agree that Santa Cruz made a mistake restricting the Vala to the 600wh battery as a lot of riders want a full fat battery with their full fat motor instead of being forced into a range extender.

Anyway, the hype train here is crazy.

 

[Randy]

Going off dji company history no I wouldn’t be too worried, anything they make they end up doing better than anyone else and it’s looking like the same will be happening here. Look how many people already complaining the Vala doesn’t have an 800w battery, the amflow is lighter than the Vala, has an 800w batt, more power, fast responsive touch screen and quick charging. With the loss of vpp now it makes the bike much more directly comparable to other offerings that are also 4 bar so we will see how the Vala plays out. Personally my ep8 has been flawless, can’t say the same on my friends Bosch with two rides that turns itself off after every impact.

Looks to me that there are a couple of things going on with the battery size... Size small is not available on the Amflow, the battery is long and thin, guessing it's using the same cells as the Bosch. So, choice is short fat and ugly but accommodates a full range of sizes or long thin and better looking but restrictive. Hard for Bosch to make the latter decision if they have to support so many brands. Vala looks like the best of the Bosch bikes so far. Im just at the point of due a replacement bike and would buy the Amflow but it doesn't fit, Vala looks good and I don't mind the range extender but its ££ for Santa Cruz premium.

 

[Biano44]

Looks to me that there are a couple of things going on with the battery size... Size small is not available on the Amflow, the battery is long and thin, guessing it's using the same cells as the Bosch. So, choice is short fat and ugly but accommodates a full range of sizes or long thin and better looking but restrictive. Hard for Bosch to make the latter decision if they have to support so many brands. Vala looks like the best of the Bosch bikes so far. Im just at the point of due a replacement bike and would buy the Amflow but it doesn't fit, Vala looks good and I don't mind the range extender but its ££ for Santa Cruz premium.

What do you mean by the Amflow doesn't fit?

 

[mehukatti]

I think DJI will remain niche if no big manufacturer will adopt it. Kind of like Pinion - cool tech but very niche.

Also, DJI is untried tech. Will it last? If it doesn't, how does warranty work? Send it to some other country and wait for replacement? No dealer in my country.

Personally I aplaud Santa Cruz for going for the smaller 600Wh battery and making it fully integrated. Makes the downtube slim and keeps the weight down. Just use the range extended for those 3 hour+ rides - I don't want a pregnant downtube.

 

[Jhill]

Problem with the range extenders is what else do you need on a longer ride? Hint it fits where the range extender
goes. Funny not wanting touch screen we’ll see how many saying that now are the same complaining they don’t have it in 6 months when Bosch releases theirs that’s obviously coming and can be purchased for anyone who bought too soon.

Unless I misread the way it works I think the Trek has been the best new Bosch option. I think they made the downtube large enough for either battery and also it is easily removable. So one could use the 600 everywhere and if they have a back country exploration travel trip planned they can swap in the 800 and still have a water bottle. Then when in 600 use were only taking the extra material of carbon for the downtube and a latch, big whoop on a full e-bike.

I’m sure it’s a great bike and I’ve been on SC bikes for years but this one just seems to be trying to squeeze itself into to many categories it’s not an SL but not a full fat it’s not truly a Heckler replacement (can it do the same trip Danny did in Scotland?) etc.. and it’s a bit weird coming from SC that’s never been a company fixated on weight is now all a sudden more recently totally fixated on weight over usefulness, like even losing cable ports to save a couple hundred grams. Even though I’m on axs transmission it’s just an odd decision coming from them.

 

[Randy]

What do you mean by the Amflow doesn't fit?

They have no size small, their size m is over 20mm longer than my current bikes

 

[Randy]

Unless I misread the way it works I think the Trek has been the best new Bosch option. I think they made the downtube large enough for either battery and also it is easily removable. So one could use the 600 everywhere and if they have a back country exploration travel trip planned they can swap in the 800 and still have a water bottle. Then when in 600 use were only taking the extra material of carbon for the downtube and a latch, big whoop on a full e-

I can’t get my head around cutting a honking great hole in the down tube - it’s just wrong from an engineering standpoint, especially after painstakingly removing removing every gram from the motor and the battery. Shame the clip on batteries are out of fashion, Lapierre glp3 with the new 800wh external battery feels like a good option.

 

[Jhill]

I can’t get my head around cutting a honking great hole in the down tube - it’s just wrong from an engineering standpoint, especially after painstakingly removing removing every gram from the motor and the battery. Shame the clip on batteries are out of fashion, Lapierre glp3 with the new 800wh external battery feels like a good option.

I see it as ease of use and convenience. I do a yearly trip of camping and biking all along the coast, this year made it all the way to whistler and back down to the Bay Area. I’ve always used my analog bike but next year plan to bring my bullit and may purchase a second battery so day two or three of camp I still have battery life and can swap the battery easily. Others may carry a battery with them (once again referring to Danny and Peaty epic trip). Others I’ve heard in cold winter climates bring the batteries inside to charge at night. Point is if the option is there it can be used or not used but if the option is removed now you can’t.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Yes, I’d read about the same rumours of a near 20% increase power which makes the 600w battery decision all the more strange as more power will rinse the battery quicker.

Definitely. Bosch mileage/watt is pretty good but 600w in the mountains will be restrictive. 850w with the extender covers a lot of ground though.
Eastern canada currently so 600w is fine most days

 

[Dirtnvert]

I see it as ease of use and convenience. I do a yearly trip of camping and biking all along the coast, this year made it all the way to whistler and back down to the Bay Area. I’ve always used my analog bike but next year plan to bring my bullit and may purchase a second battery so day two or three of camp I still have battery life and can swap the battery easily. Others may carry a battery with them (once again referring to Danny and Peaty epic trip). Others I’ve heard in cold winter climates bring the batteries inside to charge at night. Point is if the option is there it can be used or not used but if the option is removed now you can’t.

That 600w bosch plus 250w extender will last almost as long as 2x 625w with shimano motor. You get almost 30% more range/watt with bosch and the vala with those batteries compared to a bullet with 2 batteries is 12+ lb difference

 

[Jhill]

That 600w bosch plus 250w extender will last almost as long as 2x 625w with shimano motor. You get almost 30% more range/watt with bosch and the vala with those batteries compared to a bullet with 2 batteries is 12+ lb difference

Hmm well that’d be cool then but I’d like to see it tested

 

[Dirtnvert]

Hmm well that’d be cool then but I’d like to see it tested

Sorry *8+lb difference. Looks like tge vala might be able to be long stroked to 163r travel as well.
What qlwould you want tested? 85nm bosch v shimano tests have already confirmed close to 30% difference in mileage. I think that might be the ep801 pre power update as well

 

[jbrown15]

I can’t get my head around cutting a honking great hole in the down tube - it’s just wrong from an engineering standpoint, especially after painstakingly removing removing every gram from the motor and the battery. Shame the clip on batteries are out of fashion, Lapierre glp3 with the new 800wh external battery feels like a good option.

That’s why Crestline’s design is nice, bike can use either size batteries (600&800) and easily slides out the bottom.

 

[TheMirrorVision]

That’s why Crestline’s design is nice, bike can use either size batteries (600&800) and easily slides out the bottom.

While I like the look of Crestline's bikes a lot, the design compromises you have to make to do this make the downtube look positively pregnant compared to the Vala. You can see how much further the bottom of the downtube sticks out past the edge of the cranks (as a reference point for comparison) on the Crestline compared to the Vala.

 

[2WHLFUN]

A large company like Santa Cruz can't be taking business decisions based on guesses, that motor didn't even hit the market yet....give it some time before any serious bike company even consider them.

I agree that Santa Cruz made a mistake restricting the Vala to the 600wh battery as a lot of riders want a full fat battery with their full fat motor instead of being forced into a range extender.

Anyway, the hype train here is crazy.

I don’t want to carry the weight on normal rides. Love the idea of adding a range extender for the longer rides.

 

[JP-NZ]

Also Bosch appears (no first hand experience) to follow the same German mentality of not being consumer convenient, any updates require you to bring your stuff in. It’s 2024 anyone with an ebike has a smart phone or laptop just let us flash the unit and be done with it like Shimano and I have no doubts DJI would be the same for any future fixes/improvements. .

Bosch has been upgradable with the Flow app since 2022, no need to visit the LBS.

 

[jbrown15]

While I like the look of Crestline's bikes a lot, the design compromises you have to make to do this make the downtube look positively pregnant compared to the Vala. You can see how much further the bottom of the downtube sticks out past the edge of the cranks (as a reference point for comparison) on the Crestline compared to the Vala.

Funny, I personally prefer the look of the Crestline over the Vala (which looks like so many other 4-bar ebikes)