My Chinese frame and motor build. The CHEEB, V1.0 - Build Thread

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I have a theory that my M500 is only running at 12 amps.

the highest I’ve seen the Watts on the display is 580w.

it’s a 48v system
48x12=576

The controller should be good for upto 25 amps but if I can get it up to around 18 amps then it’ll definitely be at the level of the top competitors putting out 864watts

I’m in touch with Bafang, via MOSHON-E in the U.K. - first thing is to determine what amps my controller is set at.

if I can unleash the amps on the controller then that would be the dream!

 

[Animalector]

I have a theory that my M500 is only running at 12 amps.

Hey all,

The battery capacity and the peak power of the controller are somewhat unrelated. There were a couple of comments made to consider:
1. is the 800 Wh battery bigger than bosch 625Wh?
2. cell-wise it's similar to Bosch.

So, Bosch is a 36V system, that's 10 cell-banks in Series x 3.6V = 36V
The Dengfu battery is a 48V system which would be 13 cell-banks in series..... However, 13 x 3.6V = 46.8V, so sometimes Lithium is calculated using 3.7V per cell which is 48.1V.

The Bosch is 16.7Ah and the Powertube marketing material says they use 50 cells.. So that's 5 cells in parallel per cell-bank. 16.7Ah / 5 = 3.34Ah (3340mAh) per cell. This is pretty typical of a quality 18650 cell. the 16.7Ah x 36V gives 601Wh, so I don't know why they say 625Wh, but there's some marketing magic going on there.

So, let's assume Dengfu use quite similar cells. and the battery is relatively similar in dimensions Width x height. To get the additional voltage they must be using an additional 3 cell-banks in series. Since they likely use 5 cells in parallel per bank, they have the same (or similar Ah rating). A quick calculation 16.7Ah x 48.1V = 803Wh..

So in summary. the Dengfu must have an additional 15 cells in the pack which probably makes the pack longer, with (roughly) the same cell capacity and number of cells in parallel.

**edit** it's interesting that the rated voltage, the cell capacity and the marketing "capacity" often don't align. I don't really know where I was going with this... but anyway..

Andy

 

[WaXed]

Hey all,

The battery capacity and the peak power of the controller are somewhat unrelated. There were a couple of comments made to consider:
1. is the 800 Wh battery bigger than bosch 625Wh?
2. cell-wise it's similar to Bosch.

So, Bosch is a 36V system, that's 10 cell-banks in Series x 3.6V = 36V
The Dengfu battery is a 48V system which would be 13 cell-banks in series..... However, 13 x 3.6V = 46.8V, so sometimes Lithium is calculated using 3.7V per cell which is 48.1V.

The Bosch is 16.7Ah and the Powertube marketing material says they use 50 cells.. So that's 5 cells in parallel per cell-bank. 16.7Ah / 5 = 3.34Ah (3340mAh) per cell. This is pretty typical of a quality 18650 cell. the 16.7Ah x 36V gives 601Wh, so I don't know why they say 625Wh, but there's some marketing magic going on there.

So, let's assume Dengfu use quite similar cells. and the battery is relatively similar in dimensions Width x height. To get the additional voltage they must be using an additional 3 cell-banks in series. Since they likely use 5 cells in parallel per bank, they have the same (or similar Ah rating). A quick calculation 16.7Ah x 48.1V = 803Wh..

So in summary. the Dengfu must have an additional 15 cells in the pack which probably makes the pack longer, with (roughly) the same cell capacity and number of cells in parallel.

**edit** it's interesting that the rated voltage, the cell capacity and the marketing "capacity" often don't align. I don't really know where I was going with this... but anyway..

Andy

The manufacturers will typically use 3500mAh rated cells ie. Samsung 35E etc.
They will calculate the Wh from the Nominal Voltage x the total parallel cell Ah capacity
so;
36V x 17.5Ah = 630Wh
48V x 17.5Ah = 840Wh

this is far from reality of what the Battery pack actually can deliver

The Manufacturer Battery rated capacity is for (brand new A grade cell) operating at 0.2C discharge rate from 4.2V down to 2.5Volts

The E-bike battery pack will be running much higher currents than 0.2C (700mA for a 3500mAh cell)
The net effect is the delivered Ah reduces at you increase the discharge rate amperage

In an E-bike the battery LVC (Low Voltage Cutout) will generally be set at 3.0V so you also miss out on the lower end mAh capacity in the cell
also coupled with that is if you are running turbo mode (higher amps) the battery voltage drop/voltage sag) will make you hit the LVC sooner
and power is lost in the battery pack essentially heating it up

I would suggest the real usable capacity of a typical e-bike battery pack is more like 10% less than as stated
so the 630Wh rated battery pack used for the Bosch will deliver about 550Wh in the real world...

 

[Offset]

We've had a few orders for shock bushings for the E10, so I've just made a specific product for the bike on our site.

If you need shock bushings / hardware for the E10 you can find it here - Shock Bushings | Dengfu E10 Bafang

If you want offset bushings then it's just a case of noting the frame / shock models when ordering this Offset Bushings - Pair

Cheers guys!

Jeron @ Offset Bushings

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Just a heads up, Bafang have been in touch. They are looking at the firmware of my motor.

I highly suspect it’s quite detuned and providing only around 12 amps at the moment.

I’m hoping they can provide new firmware to unleash a bit more power for the Cheeb ?

 

[Tami]

Hi guys a few months ago i ordered a dengfu e10 large + 600motor+ 800w batt wanted to order a rockshock 160 mm 29 fork and 150mm rockshock shock on a 29 wheel front and 27 rear but i dont know what shock (size) i need to order and do i need to order shock bushings seperatly?? Im a little confused hope you guys can help me im 53y/180 cm / 100kg wont be jumping extreme

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Someone messaged

Hi guys a few months ago i ordered a dengfu e10 large + 600motor+ 800w batt wanted to order a rockshock 160 mm 29 fork and 150mm rockshock shock on a 29 wheel front and 27 rear but i dont know what shock (size) i need to order and do i need to order shock bushings seperatly?? Im a little confused hope you guys can help me im 53y/180 cm / 100kg wont be jumping extreme

View attachment 50446

You need a shock sized 210x55 and bushings can be purchased from @Offset here: Shock Bushings | Dengfu E10 Bafang

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Does anyone know why Rob purchased the Rock Shox in 210x52,5mm and not the 210 x 55 mm? On the webside of dengfu the Rear Shock is 210x55mm. So what size would be good for the dengfu e10 frame?

I did purchase the 210x55

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

No mtb parts (forks,shocks dt wheels)in stock last 2 months was it always like this or is it a corona thing

Maybe a bit more than you were intending but this *should* fit

Sold - 2020 Fox DHX2 210 x 55mm (Choice of 650 or 800 Spring): £475

Bike / Product Year: 2020 Manufacturer: Fox Model: DHX2 210 x 55mm (Choice of 650 or 800 Spring) Asking Price: £475 Location Caerphilly, South Wales Description Fox DHX2 2Pos-Adj Factory Coil Rear Shock 2020 Fits Specialized Turbo Levo 2019 onwards and many other brands. This shock is in...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Bafang have got back to me.

They are preparing stronger new software for the motor and sending me the BESST tool so I can install it via a laptop.

I’ll update the thread with progress.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Rob how far did the battery last in your experienced?

50 miles 5000 ft climbing. And I still didn’t totally deplete it. BUT when it gets under 20% it’s as weak as anything basically you are on fart power at this point ?

 

[CRFan1]

Bafang have got back to me.

They are preparing stronger new software for the motor and sending me the BESST tool so I can install it via a laptop.

I’ll update the thread with progress.

Let me know if you have any questions with the BESST tool. I cut and paste some general directions from the Luna forum they should apply:

FLASHING FIRMWARE

Note 1: These instructions apply to circumstances as they existed in early January. I fumbled around a lot in the process and am not able to outline the exact steps that work immediately, but the info here should enable you to get the job done. Proceed at your own risk.

Note 2: “the right COM port” (the correct COM port) did not seem to be an issue in my case. Also, sorry for the (over)abundance of detail.

1. With X-1 battery installed in your bike, open the BESST application, select offline mode (if that option is not available, see steps 3 and 4 of “INSTALLING THE BESST APPLICATION,” above)

2. Connect the BESST tool (hereafter abbreviated BT) to a USB port of PC.

3. Connect the BT’s triangular green cable ends to the bike (unplug the cable that comes out of the bike’s display and leads into the frame, and patch the BT into that path).

4. Turn on bike’s power the usual way. Note that the display will probably light up on connection to the BT, but you still need to power the bike on at battery. Click “CONNECT” in the BESST app (abbreviated hereafter as ‘BA’).

5. Choose “update” from tools menu in BA (left side of screen), then in the next screen, click the “service tool” button. You have to click connect then "read" to get the BESST tool to read the S/N of your motor. It will not update until you get it to do this.

6. Click “Get a file from local” and navigate to choose the firmware file you want to apply.

7. Click the green oval “Update” button at bottom of screen and to upload the file into BT. This goes pretty quickly; when it’s loaded you’ll hear a single beep.

8. Unplug/replug the BT from/to the cable leading into frame to start the upload to bike; the app’s red progress bar should go (pretty quickly) up to 100%, then two beeps should sound.

9. To check the (hopefully new) firmware version, hit ‘Reset’ in upper right of screen, then ‘Connect,’ then ‘Read.’ (maybe ‘Clear,’ then ‘Read’ would do?). If you don't do this, the old FW version will continue to display, regardless of whether the FW updated successfully.

 

[marcos]

If you order the clamp from Dengfu ( I think it comes as part of the kit of headrace, clamp and wiring retainers ) you won't have to worry about the size.

I was thinking in buy a wider one, 2cm wide. Yo know killing time until mine arrives
I have noticed that the seat clamp in Rob's it is much narrow than the frame place for it.

I think that in carbon frames the wider the better somehing like this:

 

[Waynemarlow]

I was thinking in buy a wider one, 2cm wide. Yo know killing time until mine arrives
I have noticed that the seat clamp in Rob's it is much narrow than the frame place for it.
View attachment 50599
I think that in carbon frames the wider the better somehing like this:
View attachment 50598

I was thinking in buy a wider one, 2cm wide. Yo know killing time until mine arrives
I have noticed that the seat clamp in Rob's it is much narrow than the frame place for it.
View attachment 50599
I think that in carbon frames the wider the better somehing like this:
View attachment 50598

34.9 won't be far off.

 

[Curiousman]

sorry i thought you wrote seat post. I unfortunately do not know what seat clamps are.

Seat clamp = 34,9

 

[patdam]

My frame is being shipped next week but yeh they can’t send the battery or motor yet hopefully it don’t take to long be nice to have it sorted in a couple of months

I am curious to see internal battery box design of the new rev of E10. Please post pics when you recive it

 

[Waynemarlow]

You mean the bearings in the frame for installing the headset? Are they really in the box? Do they not need to be pressend on the upper and lower part of the headset?

They come as the usual bearing set, as in bearing cup and bearing + usual fork lower bearing mount and top covers. Mine were an almost perfect hand tight interference fit and unlike a lot of the Ali frames, didn’t need a press.

 

[RyeNiel]

Quick question....just bought a fox dropper 150*31.6mm for the e10. Is this the right?.

cheer

31.6mm yes

 

[RyeNiel]

Hi all. The motor and battery arrived today. But unfortunately this wire is damaged upon opening. I get in touch with melody and they said they will send a new one along with the frame.

 

[RyeNiel]

Motor
Battery
Charger

 

[Funfunfun]

Hi All,

Planning the same mullet setup but will use fox shock float float x2 210 55 and fox fork 38. Would you still recommend shock offset to reduce bb and increase slack...cheers

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

..thanks Rob, may be I‘m stupid, but is there an order button? A shop function? I only see the descrioption. Do I have to order by email or phone? Thanks!

You have to email them with for a quote / order:

[email protected]

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hi All,

Planning the same mullet setup but will use fox shock float float x2 210 55 and fox fork 38. Would you still recommend shock offset to reduce bb and increase slack...cheers

I just used stock bushings and the BB height is around 347mm and head angle of just under 64 degrees which is fine for me personally. You could experiment with business, they are pretty cheap if you want to give it a go.

 

[thaeber]

I would go for a Zeb and a Vivid R2C Coil - would like to know, if the 216 x 63 would fit. That would squeeze some more travel out of the frame. To compensate the effect on the rear, I would combine it with a mullet setup, Zeb 29“ on the front at 170 mm travel. The bigger dia of the front wheel would compensate the longer rear shock, angels remain at same level, only the BB would be appr. 15 mm higher. Ride more plush with more Sag. What do You think?

 

[RyeNiel]

..thanks Rob, may be I‘m stupid, but is there an order button? A shop function? I only see the descrioption. Do I have to order by email or phone? Thanks!

You can still order the E10 frame. Just email them. Though it may take some time. I ordered 1st week January and they said it will be ship 1st week of March. The battery and motor arrived today though?

 

[Zimmerframe]

To fit the longer shock into the fram, one option would be to use offset bushings. At 6 mm bolts, they offer up to 3 mm adjustment per bushing, resulting in 6mm length compensation if 2 bushings are used. 8 mm more travel at the shock (63 instead of 55) , would mean appr. 20 - 25 mm more travel depending on ratio...

Have you read the thread ? You might want to take the time to go through it as many of the questions you may have been answered already - in this case already 4 times - for instance :

My Chinese frame and motor build. The CHEEB, V1.0 - Build Thread

I have a theory that my M500 is only running at 12 amps. the highest I’ve seen the Watts on the display is 580w. it’s a 48v system 48x12=576 The controller should be good for upto 25 amps but if I can get it up to around 18 amps then it’ll definitely be at the level of the top competitors...

www.emtbforums.com

If we all just keep starting again with our questions and proposals without reading the thread, it just makes the thread really really really long and then no one can be bothered reading it and this just happens more and more.

Please don't take me wrong, I'm not having a go at you - I'm just saying that you'll probably find many of the questions you have already have answers and you'll probably find several other ideas you'd not considered.

 

[Waynemarlow]

To fit the longer shock into the fram, one option would be to use offset bushings. At 6 mm bolts, they offer up to 3 mm adjustment per bushing, resulting in 6mm length compensation if 2 bushings are used. 8 mm more travel at the shock (63 instead of 55) , would mean appr. 20 - 25 mm more travel depending on ratio...

You may need to check on the clearance of the crosspiece at the top of the top of the rear triangle just behind the seat tube as it will get very close to touching with the longer travel. My 200 x 57 gives 0.5mm clearance at full travel with standard bushings, to give some idea. You may have to accept a higher BB and not use offset bushings.

 

[Moderator]

Generally i share that i know to help. If i do not answer, it is because i have already answered upper. But as telepathy don not weel working. the questioner do not know that he must seek.

May be useful. Possibility to simply flag with 1 click a question already answered could be clarified the thread ?

What ROB think ?

This has been a very popular thread with lots of people learning and discovering on the go.

I plan to go though the thread at some point and move/copy information into new threads in the new DIY Build section so it's easier for people to find and discuss the relevant subjects.

Don't panic if you think something you've posted has been deleted, it's most likely just been moved into a new thread which is more relevant for the subject.

 

[Moderator]

Following a marathon thread tidy, there are now several new threads to make it easier for you to find/discuss the information on the relevant subjects - so don't panic if you think your post has gone - it's most likely been moved, but may have been deleted if it's already been answered :

Dengfu E10 - The CHEEB V1.0 - Discussion

This thread is for generally discussing "The CHEEB" and the DENGFU E10, opinions, thoughts and so on so as not to clutter the main Cheeb build thread so it's easier for people for find technical information. Technical discussions and build information can be found in the main CHEEB build thread...

www.emtbforums.com

Dengfu E10 / Bafang - Buying/Pricing

I'm reading that to mean that frame, motor. crank arms and battery were £1694 all in, is that correct? Correct. Price also includes wiring harness, screen and headset bearings.

www.emtbforums.com

Dengfu E10 Suspension/Wheel Options

I ordered the XL, 510mm in reach. HA is 66 degree but I will run bigger fork and mullet, so likely end up around 64.5 ish. The frame is from Dengfu. They even supply full leverage curve, anti squat, pedal kickback etc graphs and figures! No idea of accuracy, but at least they are included...

www.emtbforums.com

Bafang M500/M600 Tuning & The BESST Tool

You can download the BESST Tool from there, you then need to contact them to obtain an ID/Password : https://bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/service/besst/ They can give you a basic password. But each ID/Password links to their system and has different abilities and can change different things.

www.emtbforums.com

 

[RyeNiel]

Nice