My Chinese frame and motor build. The CHEEB, V1.0 - Build Thread

[Rob Rides EMTB]

This thread is the Official Technical "CHEEB V1.0" build thread. Most of your questions will probably have been answered if you read through the thread, so please take the time to do so before posting a question. If you just want to "Chat CHEEB" there is an alternative thread :

Dengfu E10 - The CHEEB V1.0 - Discussion

This thread is for generally discussing "The CHEEB" and the DENGFU E10, opinions, thoughts and so on so as not to clutter the main Cheeb build thread so it's easier for people for find technical information. Technical discussions and build information can be found in the main CHEEB build thread...

www.emtbforums.com

Please try and keep this thread professional and limited to technical build information so it's easier for people to find the information. Thanks ?

So, the CHEEB frame has just cleared U.K. customs. It should be with me in the next few days.

Motor and battery arrived a few weeks ago. Bafang M500, 95nm, 48v system with EU 250w rating. Battery is a 840Wh huge in tube battery.

Frame:
Full Carbon frame set with fairly (by China frame standards) modern geometry.

I ordered the XL, 510mm in reach. HA is 66 degree but I will run bigger fork and mullet, so likely end up around 64.5 ish.

The frame is from Dengfu. They even supply full leverage curve, anti squat, pedal kickback etc graphs and figures! No idea of accuracy, but at least they are included

Frame is called the Dengfu E10 and here is the link. For some reason its labelled as E11 on the charts, but the Dengfu E10 is the actual product.

WHY?

Ebikes are getting crazy expensive. Many brands are hitting over £10,000 for the high end builds.

A lot of people would like to get into ebiking but the big barrier to entry can be the price.

Can an ebike be built at a reasonable cost? What if you already own a lot of parts and would like to put them towards something new?

Since frame / motor sets are pretty much non existent in the ebike world, this seems like it could be a viable option to build your own decent ebike at a very reasonable price

I want to build a full carbon 170 / 150mm travel ebike for under £4k. I’m also super curious how it’ll perform against the big dogs.

I want to see what the associated risks of doing this are.How long does it take, shipping, warranty, build etc etc.

It’ll have a RockShox Zeb, Super Deluxe ultimate, DT Swiss H1700 wheelset, Shimano 10 speed drivetrain, and yes, it all comes in at less than £4000 for a full carbon ebike with proper components.

Goal is sub 24KG. I think I can do it!

COSTS:

The frame set, battery and motor costs, including U.K. Shipping and duties had a total cost £1,694.44

Current total build cost, even including tyre sealant is £3888.55. This could further be reduced by ‘downgrading’ fork to a Lyrik, the Shock to a Select, and the wheelset to a H1900 set from DT Swiss. With that kind of setup it’ll be around £3400.

I also want to try this Bafang motor as so many people are commenting about these drive units.

I’ll keep this thread updated with build and updates.

it may ride horribly, creak, crack and fall to bits. But, it may just be a super sweet ebike at a fraction of the cost of a big brand.... stay tuned!!

You’ll need some shock hardware. The size is as follows


16.5mm x 8mm linkage
32mm x 8mm frame mount

I got mine from @Offset

you can find it here - Shock Bushings | Dengfu E10 Bafang

www.offsetbushings.com
£24


UPDATE 12/12/20

Frame has arrived and so far it seems great. Finish is good quality, cable runs seem decent. Includes headset bearings, seat tube clamp, steerer tube expanding head doctor thing (bit like Hope's version), battery release key, wheel axle, bottom battery cover that can be removed with hex keys (x4 bolts).

EDIT 1/1/2021 New Build Vid:

 

[Mteam]

following with interest....

Surprised at that battery weight - seems very light for a genuine 840wh?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

following with interest....

Surprised at that battery weight - seems very light for a genuine 840wh?

It’s 48v system and a 17.5Ah battery.

So 48 x 17.5Ah battery = 840Wh total.

If it were a 36v system it’d provide 630Wh (36 x 17.5 = 630Wh) ?

 

[Mteam]

It’s 48v system and a 17.5Ah battery.

So 48 x 17.5Ah battery = 840Wh total.

If it were a 36v system it’d provide 630Wh (36 x 17.5 = 630Wh) ?

Ah ha, didn't twig about the 48v thing

 

[R120]

make sure you check all the bearings greased, often not on OEM frames

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

View attachment 46814

I'm reading that to mean that frame, motor. crank arms and battery were £1694 all in, is that correct?

Correct. Price also includes wiring harness, screen and headset bearings.

 

[Slowroller]

Luna has a new controller about to be released for the m500/600which will allow custom programming, from what I understand the PAS is pretty lousy with the stock motor. It'll also provide much higher power levels if one is interested in such things....

They're going to rebadge that same frame as well, Dengfu has given them exclusive rights in the US apparently.

 

[CRFan1]

Being the owner of a luna X1 for about 3 months I can you tell this:

1) The frame is pretty damn nice and stout...looks like your frame is a variation of the same (makes sense because Luna is coming out with an X2 based on the new frame).
2) I have the M600 and its a fantastic, compact motor with a ton of power.....I have the Ludicrous controller in mine and honestly it's not needed. SO far the X1 owners have shown the motors to be very reliable, easy to maintain and if a new one is needed they are 550 dollars.
3) As stated, check all bearings...I just had to rebuild my rear hub due to a bearing not having any grease. I caught it in time and changed all 4 bearings.
4) I upgraded to a rockshox Vivid RC2 coil and its awesome. I also upgraded to some carbon rims and DT swiss 350 hubs (will be here in 3-4 weeks) from diycarbonbikes.com.
5) My bike has seen all kinds of nasty trail riding and it has been stellar. No real issues. It had some creaking when I got it but I lubed all the linkage and shock bolts and its quiet as a church mouse.
6) the PAS settings are not great.....on my bike, 1 is useless. 2 is too little and 3-4-5 are too much. I use 3 for all manner of trail riding and get a good 20 miles. If on pavement, 40 miles would be doable. Sounds like Luna will have an option for programming the controller soon.

Bottom line is I have about $4500 in this bike and it would cost double that if I bought a name brand. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by your build.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hey Rob,

Could you please post some links of where you ordered the frame and motor, I am having trouble finding it.

Here is the frame. Called the Dengfu E10.

E10 BAFANG- Dengfu Sports Equipment Co.Ltd

SMART AM FULL SUSPENSION E-BIKE FRAME E10 Use for: 29er Boost Suspension E-Bike Frame: E10 BAFANG Feature: Thru Axle (148mm) Material: full Toray

m.dengfubikes.com

the entire process is pretty drawn out. You have to email them (contact on that page) and that starts the process.

what follows is a rather sketchy feeling process, where you must PayPal a large sum of money to a random PayPal address.

I did a bit of due diligence before I proceeded including a fair amount of research on Dengfu, as well as google-fu on the PayPal ID. It all checked out OK.

As an individual purchase the process, as you may expect, is hardly Bezos style Amazon shopping. But at this price I guess it’s kind of expected.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Cheers is this the email [email protected]

That’s the one ?

 

[apac]

That’s the one ?

if you are interested in doing some in-depth reading about the motor and frame here is a thread that will be for you. Tear downs, wiring diagrams, user issues and plenty of geeky DIYing and potential hot rodding.....

Bafang M500/M600 thread

Since this seems to be an interesting motor, why not have a separate topic for it? I'll start with three quotes I have found about the motor on this forum, feel free to add more information that you can find. Over the last couple of days I had heard that there had been reports of the M600...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Frame has arrived. Quality seems very good.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Rob Rides EMTB is it ready yet?
Where's the video? ?
Really interested to see how this turns out.
I have a friend who would love to get into emtbs after having his bike stolen, but doesn't currently have the funds for a decent one, so we might grab the same frame and build it up to get him on the road again.
I know shipping times can change, but how long did it take from payment to delivery?

Good question! I’ll make a list of FAQ’s and add to opening post.

I ordered 26th October 2020 and frame arrived 12th December 2020. Motor and battery arrived a lot quicker, 14th November.

From what I can work out they ship battery motor and electrics from Netherlands. They likely have a storage facility there.

I assume the frames are built to order as it wasn’t actually shipped from China until around 4 weeks after I’d paid. Was shipped on 24th November 2020. So from ship date until delivery it was 18 days to get from China to UK, not too bad.

 

[patdam]

I am appy to find this tread to share our experiency. I have ordered one (XL also) for france, 7 weeks ago. I have received the motor + battery 2 week later and i am waiting for the frame (i hope before next year).

Why ? in first because i like to built my bike (i have built an cube AMS150 with BBS 7 years ago). I have purchased a cayon spectral on 2 years ago, good bike but with a big deffect for my use (high moutain), the walk mode. compared to BBS throttle it is a big shit. In first i wanted try to install the M500 on the canyon. But when i try to buy one, i found only frame manufacturer who sale it. And i found the dengfu, with some positive returns on endlessphere (mostly for LUNAX1). I confirm the common adivse about the (bad) communication with melody of dengfu, but if it is a quality prodcts, low importance. I have ordered mine in blue (may be the raison of long delay ?). i have ordered one more yoke linkage with the frame for modifed, my goal is to use 27.5 rear and 29 front. I have tried to obtain bases less long, but no way. I will see.

 

[patdam]

which rear shock you have purchase ? i will try to install an 215, could you post picture of right side (lower base axis) with your rear shock to see if possible ? i have a doubt.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

which rear shock you have purchase ? i will try to install an 215, could you post picture of right side (lower base axis) with your rear shock to see if possible ? i have a doubt.

Sure. I’ll take a pic with it installed. I have a 210x55 RockShox Super Deluxe. I’ll measure actual rear wheel travel when it’s installed.

I also will run 27.5 rear 29 front.

 

[patdam]

27.5 rear and 29 front will modified a lot angles. 27.5 have 710 cm diameter and 29 750. it is the raison why i want rise a few the rear.

have you tools for crank plate ? i found it here
Bafang BBS axle tool locking ring nut second ring | Accessories | FasterBikes - Bafang / CYC Motorshop for your bike

i found also cranks arms (for M420), i have shortened it to make 154 length arms (not really know if necessary ? but i have nothing more to buid)
Achetez des Bras de Manivelle Bafang chez HBS (hollandbikeshop.com)

 

[patdam]

i see in charcteristic that BB height is 324mm. I hope it is with 27.5 wheel ? that is too short for my use, I need 350mm at least with 165 cranks arms length and 150mm travel. Using shortened arms will be necessary (alike LUNAX1 it's seem)

 

[paul-g]

What warranty do you get on the frame? What happens when it breaks, do they send you spares or a replacement?

ahhhh the first thing is to contact, but if it takes 10 days when you want to order imagine
how long it will be for a purported warranty return?
then you have to send it back.
then the argument starts.
remember you are not dealing with English law
best price i could get was
package 6kg
90x70x30
£158.20
FED EX
Buy This Service
Don't Need Protection?
£157.90
then you have to wait and wait and wait

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Some more pics of the frame.

Frame weight including all linkage and battery mounts / key lock etc is 4.2KG

Internal cable routing. All bolt fixings already in place. All looks fairly neat and well thought. Cable tidies already installed in the frame.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Coming next is painting. I already did a test and here’s the colour ? Purple chromacoat.

From rattle cans.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Looks good to me! Have fun with this! One weak spot on the X1 as an FYI is the upper and lower battery tray mounts. They are plastic and tend to crack. Haven't seen batteries falling out but I strengthened mine with epoxy and cloth (they had cracks) and I now strap the battery in for good measure because I do jump and ride nasty trails. No issues at all since. How is the battery mounting in this frame out curiosity? Thinking they changed it?

Battery secures into what looks like aluminium mounts at both ends. When I get a chance I’ll unscrew them again and take some pics.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Presumably, we all accept in our minds that there's a good chance with these "direct" and "cheaper" options that there will be risk, fear, issues if things are broken. I don't know enough about dengfu to know if they're after sales is good or bad, but it's going to be slow whatever just due to distances. At the same time, that risk and fear is offset somewhere in our minds with excitement and adventure ! It's different, we're being creative, it's a gamble ?! There will probably be challenges to be overcome. It certainly won't be for everyone !

It's the underdog, which we hope can be a champion ...

Agree. I think for a project like this, one has to be prepared to forgo usual warranty conventions. Considering that Rob is dealing directly with the manufacturer, he has bypassed the costs incurred pertaining to branding, marketing promoting and advertising, warranty and servicing liabilities, inventory static losses, etc. So if something goes wrong with the frame, just biff it and get another one. He might still end up ahead, without bothering with claims, cross cultural disputes, and delays associated with international re-shipping.

 

[patdam]

Looks good to me! Have fun with this! One weak spot on the X1 as an FYI is the upper and lower battery tray mounts. They are plastic and tend to crack. Haven't seen batteries falling out but I strengthened mine with epoxy and cloth (they had cracks) and I now strap the battery in for good measure because I do jump and ride nasty trails. No issues at all since. How is the battery mounting in this frame out curiosity? Thinking they changed it?

I have this problem of cracking with all chines battery (not built for TT), i solve it by use external straps to secure. I doing also for the shimano on the canyon, no cracks, but i losen it one time. How you doing to strap the battery inside the frame? I think it is not the same size but the same kind of fixation in the E10 than X1 (E09 for dengfu)

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Here are the individual costs of the parts by the way. In terms of warranty I personally think Dengfu would honour manufacturing defects etc. But a grey area with carbon frames if it cracks. I doubt I’d get the kind of goodwill a big brand would offer.

Absolute worst case is that I’d pay the replacement cost. Best case is free or discounted parts.

Look at the price of the battery. Just $350 for a 17.5Ah.

E10 21" in UD matt finish: $680
A headset for E10: $14
Rear thru axle for E10: $10
M500 Bafang motor 48V 250W: $650
Battery 48V 17.5Ah: $350

 

[Gary]

in charcteristic that BB height is 324mm. I hope it is with 27.5 wheel ? that is too short for my use, I need 350mm at least with 165 cranks arms length and 150mm travel. Using shortened arms will be necessary

Frame is listed as 20mm BB drop. So for 27.5x2.5 tyres front and rear that would actually equal a BB height of 335mm
But even if it were 324mm, That really isn't all that low for a 150mm travel bike anyway. it's a similar height my 170mm travel Eeb. (so this bike has 20mm MOAR clearance.

 

[patdam]

to complete cost communicate by rob

custom paint (1 color) + glossy finish = 63 USD

derailleur hanger 8 USD

set of all axis 60 USD

 

[patdam]

santa claus is pass today

 

[patdam]

with little modification of yoke, 215 shock pass. It will compensate mulet assembly

 

[patdam]

An recommendation. It will be necessary to perform holes on battery conexions plate, to avoid moisture accumulate and done short circuit. The most important problem for me is battery fixation. With my use, sure i lose it, if i do not find strongly solution to secure it.



Somebody have recomendations about assembly. What is the better to use for install pivot bearings cups on carbone frame. cooper grease, anti slide grease for carbone assembly or it is better to fixthose with glue (with what ?)