Marin Alpine Trail E1/2 thread

[Cleggy]

Thanks for the input.

 

[mxh]

Right guys, back to spring weights.

I have a 450lb spring on my shock, its not easy to measure sag as the vernier can't fit in past the coils of the spring. But It appears that I am getting approx 3mm - 5mm more sag than the recommended 19mm.

From the few rides that I have done on the bike the 450lb spring feels great and I am not aware of having bottomed it out anywhere, however every single ride I am getting multiple pedal strikes.

Do I go a heavier spring? If so is 475lb enough or better to go 500lb?

Alternatively do I get 150mm crank arms instead of the 160mm?

I had the same issue (pedal strikes) on my non-e trail bike and adding more air in to the shock cured that.

Queries about pedal strikes usually get the response that it's all about technique, and there's certainly some truth in that.

However, I think the BB on these bikes is pretty low compared to many others on the market. I was getting a few pedal strikes, but my main issue was bashing the motor and/or chainring on various obstacles. My solution was upping the fork to 170mm, putting on a 36T chainring (instead of the standard 38) and putting a 29" wheel on the back.

Obviously that's not the cheapest way of resolving the issue, but for the type of riding I do (which doesn't include much in the way of flow trails, where the low BB would help) I'm liking the way the bike rides and haven't yet had any pedal strikes or motor hits.

By upping the travel AND putting a 29 on the back, I'm keeping the geometry sort of the same(ish) - however, with a pretty slack head angle of 63 degrees as standard, just putting a 29 on the rear wouldn't make it too steep - may be worth a try?

 

[Cleggy]

Queries about pedal strikes usually get the response that it's all about technique, and there's certainly some truth in that.

However, I think the BB on these bikes is pretty low compared to many others on the market. I was getting a few pedal strikes, but my main issue was bashing the motor and/or chainring on various obstacles. My solution was upping the fork to 170mm, putting on a 36T chainring (instead of the standard 38) and putting a 29" wheel on the back.

Obviously that's not the cheapest way of resolving the issue, but for the type of riding I do (which doesn't include much in the way of flow trails, where the low BB would help) I'm liking the way the bike rides and haven't yet had any pedal strikes or motor hits.

By upping the travel AND putting a 29 on the back, I'm keeping the geometry sort of the same(ish) - however, with a pretty slack head angle of 63 degrees as standard, just putting a 29 on the rear wouldn't make it too steep - may be worth a try?

I would be the first to admit my technique is not the best, and my lack of flexibility (too many years road cycling with ZERO muscle stretching pre or post ride) means its a struggle to drop the heels and keep them dropped.

I agree with you about bashing the motor bash guard, I've hit it a few times also.

This Marin has 160 crank arms my previous bike had 170, I changed it to 165 and added more air to the shock and that made a big difference on that bike.

As for the 29er option, it is something I am going to try the other bike was full 29er and I had a spare set of 29er wheels for it, I just need to sort out the rear rotor and magnet for the motors speed sensor.

Just yesterday I sold the other bike so there is cash sitting here to downsize front ring and/or increase the air shaft on the fork if needed.

Thanks for your real-world experience.

 

[iadmtb]

Queries about pedal strikes usually get the response that it's all about technique, and there's certainly some truth in that.

However, I think the BB on these bikes is pretty low compared to many others on the market. I was getting a few pedal strikes, but my main issue was bashing the motor and/or chainring on various obstacles. My solution was upping the fork to 170mm, putting on a 36T chainring (instead of the standard 38) and putting a 29" wheel on the back.

Obviously that's not the cheapest way of resolving the issue, but for the type of riding I do (which doesn't include much in the way of flow trails, where the low BB would help) I'm liking the way the bike rides and haven't yet had any pedal strikes or motor hits.

By upping the travel AND putting a 29 on the back, I'm keeping the geometry sort of the same(ish) - however, with a pretty slack head angle of 63 degrees as standard, just putting a 29 on the rear wouldn't make it too steep - may be worth a try?

We have like minds. I also bumped up my travel in the front to 170mm and i’m also using a 29” wheel with a 2.5 tire in the rear. I didn’t experience any additional pedal strikes with my E2 vs. my Turbo Levo (installed 155mm cranks).

I did try the bike with a 29” rear with the stock front 160mm fork, but when I measured the HTA, it was steepened by over 1 degree. With the 170mm it corrected the HTA back to around 63 - 63.5. One thing I found surprising, when I matched up the stock 27.5 rear wheel with the 2.8 Vee tire, the height was shorter by at least an inch compared to my 29” rear wheel with a 2.5 Maxxis DHR II.

With the 170mm fork and 29” rear wheel, I say it definitely changes how the bike rides. I feel a bit more confident descending with this setup compared to stock and even compared to my Turbo Levo. For the past month, I’ve been reaching for the E2 to ride more often than my Turbo Levo.

 

[Fielonator]

Have you tried adjusting your shock with the spring you're using? Bit more preload should help with sag, bit more LSC damping should help keep the bike sitting up a bit more. Too heavy a spring and you'll struggle to use the travel and the bike may ride harshly.

 

[Cleggy]

Have you tried adjusting your shock with the spring you're using? Bit more preload should help with sag, bit more LSC damping should help keep the bike sitting up a bit more. Too heavy a spring and you'll struggle to use the travel and the bike may ride harshly.

As yet I have not added extra preload. (More preload would increase harshness wouldn't it?)

I did go to the Fox spring weight calculator and filled in all the data and it suggests the following:
500lb spring at 24.9% sag
450lb spring (my current setup) at 27.7% sag

 

[Fielonator]

Too much preload will make the shock feel harsh as it won't be sagged properly. It's not a great thing to adjust but it can make up for a little bit of sag. The damping is the way to go to control the ride properly. I went from a 350lb spring with moderate LSC and rebound damping (set up by the guy at the shop from the fox website) to a 400lb with hardly any LCS and some rebound. The rear end bobs a lot more now but is more poppy, which is what I was after. On a normal bike I'd have stayed with the 350 spring for the sake of pedalling, doesn't seem to be a problem with an emtb.

 

[Cleggy]

Too much preload will make the shock feel harsh as it won't be sagged properly. It's not a great thing to adjust but it can make up for a little bit of sag.

Yip I had read that, I've no real world experience though to compare.

Springs are "cheap" so I ordered a 500lb spring to test and compare thinking it would be here next week for when I have some annual leave. But as luck would have it, it arrived yesterday and I installed it last night. Out for a shred today to see how it goes.

 

[iadmtb]

I use this spring calculator:

Mountain Bike Spring Rate Calculator I

It was spot on with the sag measurement and which spring rate I should use.

 

[Cleggy]

I use this spring calculator:

Mountain Bike Spring Rate Calculator I

It was spot on with the sag measurement and which spring rate I should use.

Thanks, that one says 500lb spring. Notably this one tells you to adjust for heavier/lighter rider and to add 2% weight bias for recreational/beginner rider (which i class myself as) any other spring rate calculators ive seen do not go as fine grained as that.

I emailed TF tuned and gave them my details, bike details etc and they too said 500lb spring

I rode the bike today with the 500lb spring and noticeably less pedal strikes and any there were were not as harsh as previously, so I think I'll stick with the 500lb spring. But might at some point also shorten the cranks 10mm

 

[mxh]

500lb spring at 24.9% sag
450lb spring (my current setup) at 27.7% sag

Thanks, that one says 500lb spring

How much do you weigh?

I've always tried to get about 30% sag on the rear, especially on an e-bike where pedalling efficiency isn't so important, so would have thought you'd be better with 450lb or less.

Did you measure the sag with the 500 spring?

 

[Cleggy]

How much do you weigh?

I've always tried to get about 30% sag on the rear, especially on an e-bike where pedalling efficiency isn't so important, so would have thought you'd be better with 450lb or less.

Did you measure the sag with the 500 spring?

old school measurement, had to stand on my mums scales as my digital ones that do lbs/kg have went awol, 14st 3 on hers. 25kg bike. +3kg for drinking water, helmet, shoes, body armour

hard to measure sag, prongs of my vernier does not fit in past the coils of the spring and doesn't extend long enough to use the eye-to-eye distance for measuring.

Eye ball and a tape measure using the bottom out rubber with the 450lb spring looked to be approx 24mm and with the 500lb looks like 19mm bang on, but obviously could be plus or minus until a more exact measurement is found.

Both springs ride great for my very average/below average riding ability.

 

[Cleggy]

Rotor magnet.

Looking for input from those who have used different wheels on their E1 / E2

Once you fit the magnet to the rotor on the alternative rear wheel, is there any setup you need to do within the controller and or the etube app? Or is it automatically detected and just works?

I'm curious to try a 29er rear wheel. Presumably I'd also have to change the millimeter wheel size somewhere too to keep the speed and distance accurate?

 

[mxh]

Rotor magnet.

Looking for input from those who have used different wheels on their E1 / E2

Once you fit the magnet to the rotor on the alternative rear wheel, is there any setup you need to do within the controller and or the etube app? Or is it automatically detected and just works?

I'm curious to try a 29er rear wheel. Presumably I'd also have to change the millimeter wheel size somewhere too to keep the speed and distance accurate?

No setup required - it just works.

If you're putting a 29 on, then if you want accurate speed / odo then you'd need to get the wheel size adjusted on the motor software.

But I've left mine as it was - so at a real 25kmh (when the assistance cuts out) I'm actually doing 26.3km/h. I'm OK with that

 

[Cleggy]

No setup required - it just works.

If you're putting a 29 on, then if you want accurate speed / odo then you'd need to get the wheel size adjusted on the motor software.

But I've left mine as it was - so at a real 25kmh (when the assistance cuts out) I'm actually doing 26.3km/h. I'm OK with that

Thank you

 

[Fielonator]

Can anyone tell me the headset type for an E2 please? The spec says FSA #57, but there are several of those and it doesn't give the type and sizes. I'm considering a reach adjusting headset and have been stopped at the first step.

 

[Cleggy]

FSA No 57, Sealed Cartridge Bearings, 1 1/8" (steerer) x 1 1/2” (lower)

 

[Fielonator]

Thanks, but not what I was after. Headsets are sold in sizes specific to the bearing cup and fitment into the frame, e.g. EC49-ZS56 would mean the top bearing is external to the frame (EC) and the bottom is internal or zero stack (ZS). I expect the numbers are either the bearing size or cup depth. This isn't clear from the FSA type, but what I'll need to know in order to choose the new headset that will fit. I'm at work so I can't check my bike, but I expect the top bearing is external, bottom is zero stack.

 

[Fielonator]

The numbers given are the head tube diameter. Just checked.

 

[iadmtb]

No setup required - it just works.

If you're putting a 29 on, then if you want accurate speed / odo then you'd need to get the wheel size adjusted on the motor software.

But I've left mine as it was - so at a real 25kmh (when the assistance cuts out) I'm actually doing 26.3km/h. I'm OK with that

I’m curious about something. I didn’t adjust any parameters to account for the 29 rear wheel I installed on my E2. Understanding the range reading is an estimate, would the 29 rear wheel give you more range or less?

 

[Fielonator]

That's made my brain hurt.

 

[Cleggy]

I’m curious about something. I didn’t adjust any parameters to account for the 29 rear wheel I installed on my E2. Understanding the range reading is an estimate, would the 29 rear wheel give you more range or less?

same battery and motor so same range more or less

I say more or less because 29er will roll a tiny bit better so should give a tiny bit more range but really thats too simplistic a way of looking at it because tyre compound, elevation gain, wind resistance, etc etc will also affect range

 

[Fielonator]

My initial thoughts were that as the indicated speed was lower than actual, the estimated range would also be lower that the actual. Then I got to thinking about how much the battery would be affected by the increased effort of turning a larger wheel, offsetting the increased rolling efficiency. It was at this point I gave up as my brain was hurting. I'd like to see the experiment done on video.

 

[iadmtb]

Sorry didn’t mean to cause any confusion. I was just curious about it. I know there’s other factors to consider, but my buddy has the same exact bike as I do and we rode the same trail together last weekend and his range and battery level was more than what I had at the end of the ride. The only major difference between the two bikes was my 29” rear wheel. We both were on Eco the entire time and started off with the same battery level.

 

[mxh]

Sorry didn’t mean to cause any confusion. I was just curious about it. I know there’s other factors to consider, but my buddy has the same exact bike as I do and we rode the same trail together last weekend and his range and battery level was more than what I had at the end of the ride. The only major difference between the two bikes was my 29” rear wheel. We both were on Eco the entire time and started off with the same battery level.

Maybe your buddy put in more effort so the bike didn't need to give as much assistance?

But by how much was the difference - was it huge, or just a couple of kms?

 

[iadmtb]

It was noticeable. From what I remember it was at least a 2-3 mile difference in range, battery life about 3-5 percent more. We both were averaging the same cadence, approximately 75-85 rpm.

Again, other factors may have come in to play and this is definitely not a great scientific comparison.

 

[chownr]

Just got a great deal on an Alpine Trail E2. First impressions are great. Friendly/stable playful and build quality appears great. Looking forwards to getting many more miles under my belt

 

[coney]

G’day! Managed to pick up a deal on a secondhand e2 recently, and am super stoked with this beast of a machine. It’s so much fun!

Got a couple newb questions tho…

…wondering if anyone here can recommend any frame protection kits, either full invisiframe or other…

…and whether transport on a folding arm bike rack is a good idea or not…as in, one like this where the bike sits atop the racks arms on it’s downtube. Have used this for years with analogue bikes and it’s bombproof, am loathe to change up, but the e2 battery sheath seems merely a flexible plastic cover and I’m wary of it on longer highway trips etc. Have seen a few threads already on here about racks and wet weather travel…thought I’d ask your opinions.

Cheers for your time, happy trails

 

[chownr]

G’day! Managed to pick up a deal on a secondhand e2 recently, and am super stoked with this beast of a machine. It’s so much fun!

Got a couple newb questions tho…

…wondering if anyone here can recommend any frame protection kits, either full invisiframe or other…

…and whether transport on a folding arm bike rack is a good idea or not…as in, one like this where the bike sits atop the racks arms on it’s downtube. Have used this for years with analogue bikes and it’s bombproof, am loathe to change up, but the e2 battery sheath seems merely a flexible plastic cover and I’m wary of it on longer highway trips etc. Have seen a few threads already on here about racks and wet weather travel…thought I’d ask your opinions.

Cheers for your time, happy trails

Congratulations. Ive had mine for 2 weeks and absolutely love it. I just bought 3m of 100mm Helitape off of ebay and cut lengths/widths and shapes to suit. I do this on all my bikes and the good quality tape stands the test of time at a fraction of the cost of branded tape.

Enjoy your riding

Rich

 

[coney]

Congratulations. Ive had mine for 2 weeks and absolutely love it. I just bought 3m of 100mm Helitape off of ebay and cut lengths/widths and shapes to suit. I do this on all my bikes and the good quality tape stands the test of time at a fraction of the cost of branded tape.

Enjoy your riding

Rich

Top tip Rich, cheers eh. Might give that a nudge, seems fiddly but…

Just took mine out yesterday for 40kms and 1200m vert in 2.5 hours from my doorstep…gotta love this thing eh.

Tangential question-do you (or anyone here) carry tools in the steerer? Think the 38 Elite is limited there; so what other solutions have people used to carry tools on the bike? Cant stand bags eh.