Lightcarbon LCES004 (Dengfu E10 alternative in USA)

[Sandur-Rx]

Thanks for posting your experience with the light carbon 004. I also have the LC 004 and am almost done with my build. I do have to build the battery cover yet. I was just wondering if you would share more information about the hardware you used. Specifically the frame hardware at the top and where you got it/ what is it called.

I know a guy that has a btf03 separate cover. I’m going to use that also for my custom battery. Pm me and I’ll give you his contact info if you like.

 

[KaroKönig]

Thanks for posting your experience with the light carbon 004. I also have the LC 004 and am almost done with my build. I do have to build the battery cover yet. I was just wondering if you would share more information about the hardware you used. Specifically the frame hardware at the top and where you got it/ what is it called.

The holding mechanism is made of 5x20 mm aluminum. Right and left as a guide and in the middle to move and lock

 

[Dave Rand]

Amazing looking bike!
Question, what sizing is the frame like?
I’m 5’10” and always between sizes.
cheers

 

[KaroKönig]

The frame size is L.
I´m 5´11" and it fits perfectly.

 

[jtran69]

Anyone able to find a decent full suspension frame that is made for M800, no adapter hack needed to mount the motor? I’m really interested. Ths!

 

[Dave Rand]

I ordered the Large mid March it should arrive. Cheers

 

[Dave Rand]

For anyone interested I found this website which has the Lightcarbon LCES004 listed. Was massive help in deciding frame sizing based of my previous bikes etc.

Geometry Geeks

The world's biggest open geometry database. Find bikes by name or numbers. Easily compare bike geometry side-by-side.

geometrygeeks.bike

 

[Dave Rand]

KaroKonig, quick question, do you have a part number for the Crane Creak headset?

thanks bud

 

[KaroKönig]

KaroKonig, quick question, do you have a part number for the Crane Creak headset?

thanks bud

Cane Creek AngleSet Kit ZS44/28,6 - EC56/40 Tapered Steuersatz

 

[Dave Rand]

Thank you

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Is called fire orange to green and is a flip-flop lacquer ?
View attachment 67237
View attachment 67236

Very impressive

 

[TCFlowClyde]

In any case, it will be a M600 motor of the latest generation and the battery is a self-made with 21700 cells and 777 Wh
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Wow! Excellent work, much respect I've got two of the OEM Bafang BT-F03 450 Wh batteries with the old 18650 cells, I would love to upgrade with the 21700 cells using my existing casing and BMS. I can get the 21700 cells and probably a $100 spot welder...this would be my first re-build attempt. Any chance that you might post a step-by-step breakdown of your next battery build? Much appreciated if so

 

[KaroKönig]

Wow! Excellent work, much respect I've got two of the OEM Bafang BT-F03 450 Wh batteries with the old 18650 cells, I would love to upgrade with the 21700 cells using my existing casing and BMS. I can get the 21700 cells and probably a $100 spot welder...this would be my first re-build attempt. Any chance that you might post a step-by-step breakdown of your next battery build? Much appreciated if so

I'm afraid that won't work in the existing case as the 21700 is bigger than the 18650

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Sure, I understand the 21700s are larger. But the old casing should match up fairly closely to your DIY casing...it's the exact frame battery recitical?

I'm afraid that won't work in the existing case as the 21700 is bigger than the 18650

Interesting. I just assumed the OEM case dimensions would match up with your DIY 21700 pack. I get that 21700 cells are larger...it's in the description . Perhaps, I would simply use a few less cell then in the rebuild? I'd still take a 700 Wh rebuild over the existing 450 Wh. I don't think I could fabricate the nice carbon cover and latch system you made...that is great work on your end and looks professional Your thoughts? Thx

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Sure, I understand the 21700s are larger. But the old casing should match up fairly closely to your DIY casing...it's the exact frame battery recitical?

Interesting. I just assumed the OEM case dimensions would match up with your DIY 21700 pack. I get that 21700 cells are larger...it's in the description . Perhaps, I would simply use a few less cell then in the rebuild? I'd still take a 700 Wh rebuild over the existing 450 Wh. I don't think I could fabricate the nice carbon cover and latch system you made...that is great work on your end and looks professional Your thoughts? Thx

Ok, I see now. It's a soft battery pack with your fabricated cover and hardware. Your using foam padding to to prevent noise, and contain the battery pack. It's soft because you could efficiently pack more 21700 cells then if you created your own case. I just assumed the latter. I prefer to use the existing BT-F 03 case. I'll do some dimension measurements and see how many 21700 will fit it

 

[KaroKönig]

I think if you connect the cells across, even a 14S 4P is feasible in terms of space, so a good 1000 Wh

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Wow nice work

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Wow nice work

Dumb question and just curious...did you create a charge port? Or do you just remove the cover to recharge it?

 

[KaroKönig]

Dumb question and just curious...did you create a charge port? Or do you just remove the cover to recharge it?

I used the opening in the lock to install a charging socket

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I used the opening in the lock to install a charging socket
View attachment 83105

Yes, impressive. I too thought that would be a logical spot.

And you hard mounted your color Luna 860 c display....drilled holes in down tube to feed the wiring? Very clean handlebar/cockpit area too! Lastly, cool Aussie (great riding buddies).

Thanks for sharing your setup and the very clever DIY mods .

 

[Thediesel233]

In case anyone is still wondering.. I was able to order an E10 frame from Alibaba and it will be shipped directly to me in the USA.

$2287 delivered for a painted grey frame, m600 motor, and 840wh battery.

 

[brandond]

In case anyone is still wondering.. I was able to order an E10 frame from Alibaba and it will be shipped directly to me in the USA.

$2287 delivered for a painted grey frame, m600 motor, and 840wh battery.

Are you able to order from the dengfu webstore on alibaba or through a different vendor?
Would it be possible to post a link?
Thank you!

 

[ArtInvent]

I have built an LCES 004 in late 2021. I was inspired to get this frame after seeing KaroKönig and his beautiful creation. It is working very well for a few months now, it is now April '22, about 400 mi clocked. I took a 20 Ah 960Wh 48V pack and managed to shoehorn it into the frame and built an aluminum cover plate. Yes that is the biggest drawback with this frame is that it's built for smallish batteries and you have to either get one of those or work out a more custom solution. I looked into a Cheeb a la Rob Rides and found the Dengfu was not available in the US, I am in Southern California. I definitely would have bought a Luna x1, but waited for 6 months and they just couldn't get them at the time. Today I'd probably just buy an X2 they look pretty awesome and are actually in stock at the moment holy crow! And a bit less money than I ended up spending on this build ha. Although I do like building things and it was a good pandemic project.

My previous ebike experience was with a pretty old Gary Fisher hardtail converted with Bafang bbs02. Also 20 yrs ago: electricycle.com. That was pretty cool but obviously this is a huge step up. Upon first startup everything worked pretty well. Overall it's a fantastic bike and I would say the frame is extremely well done and the geometry is well worked out for such a long travel. The m600 is just about the perfect amount of power for me. The bbs02 for that matter has enough power but having a torque sensor is a big improvement. I guess I'm more interested in exploring and going on long rides like 30- 40 miles over very long climbs and extremely rocky trails, so comfort handling and stamina are of prime importance. Huge amounts of torque and power and speed are not really what I'm looking for. I can generally just leave it on PAS 3 and go all day, whereas on a BBS02 I would be mashing the pas level up and down constantly.

I guess the battery build was the most custom aspect of this. I took a pack that came in a Hailong case, the cells are 2170s. The eBay seller was called cowellcowinbattery based in SoCal. I pulled out the cell pack and it almost fit in the frame except the BMS was attached on one side and it just was too tight. So I ended up cutting the BMS off and soldering on some longer wires so to mount the BMS on a different side and then shrunk wrap it all back together. So far so good it's in there nice and snug with a bit of padding around it. Of course with this setup it's very streamlined looking but the battery is not easily swappable, read on and you will see why that is kind of a drawback.

I have a few issues with how the motor is programmed regarding battery usage and not sure what the solution is. Obviously it's common knowledge now that the M600 is not programmable as previous Bafangs. I don't have much issue with the power level setups. My biggest gripe is when the battery is showing 20% on the display, the actual voltage of the pack is nearly 46 volts which is still pretty high and I certainly would not call that 20%, more like 45%. But at this point the motor seems to go into limp mode limiting max power output to about 225 W. At indicated 0% the the power cuts out, yet the battery is still over 42V. So I went to some lengths to put in a fairly huge battery, but I'm not getting all the energy that I want to out of it. Yes such conservative battery limits will keep your battery in wonderful shape for years, but I only take it down to these lower levels like once a month, so I think it will last for years anyway. I have read elsewhere here on the forums that someone came up with a way to adjust that shut off level down closer to like 38 volts or something which is much more reasonable. So I will investigate if I can get this firmware going on to my bike, at this point I don't have a besst tool yet and these firmwares seem highly experimental.

I believe I got the motor on Alibaba from China from a place called Greenpedel. I actually bought a silent PEEK gear from Luna but then on disassembling the motor I found already a plastic gear in it. I guess at some point Bafang started putting in plastic gears from the factory, although I've still heard of some motors new that are noisy. I find the motor to be pretty quiet, not as quiet as a bbs02 but acceptable.

Finding the right dropper post for this was a little challenging because the seat tube takes that angle bend so it's a bit on the short side. But I found one with really the perfect amount of travel so it worked out.

Otherwise my only gripe is that the little display dpc241 is small and stealthy however it's horrible, dim, you can read your speed and the pas level and everything else is microscopic. I might ask if anyone knows which displays work with this motor. My display is a little odd in that there are two cable connections coming out the back of it, a connection to the motor but also a connection on the back of it to the throttle. Other displays I can't tell if there's a throttle connection on them. Or do you use a separate connection wire coming from the motor harness to the throttle? I think there might be an extra wire that I tucked up inside the frame somewhere but I can't really remember hah.

Photo album of build: eMTB Build - LightCarbon LCES 004

 

[patdam]

I might ask if anyone knows which displays work with this motor.

All bafang screan in CAN bus working with M500/600, exemple DPC860C

I'm interseted to have your data on your battery (size available in frame, etc..) i have ordered an frame with same space for battery (light carbon LCES1075) and if i have the dimensions, i can build the battery during expecting of the frame

 

[TCFlowClyde]

View attachment 85930

I have built an LCES 004 in late 2021. I was inspired to get this frame after seeing KaroKönig and his beautiful creation. It is working very well for a few months now, it is now April '22, about 400 mi clocked. I took a 20 Ah 960Wh 48V pack and managed to shoehorn it into the frame and built an aluminum cover plate. Yes that is the biggest drawback with this frame is that it's built for smallish batteries and you have to either get one of those or work out a more custom solution. I looked into a Cheeb a la Rob Rides and found the Dengfu was not available in the US, I am in Southern California. I definitely would have bought a Luna x1, but waited for 6 months and they just couldn't get them at the time. Today I'd probably just buy an X2 they look pretty awesome and are actually in stock at the moment holy crow! And a bit less money than I ended up spending on this build ha. Although I do like building things and it was a good pandemic project.

My previous ebike experience was with a pretty old Gary Fisher hardtail converted with Bafang bbs02. Also 20 yrs ago: electricycle.com. That was pretty cool but obviously this is a huge step up. Upon first startup everything worked pretty well. Overall it's a fantastic bike and I would say the frame is extremely well done and the geometry is well worked out for such a long travel. The m600 is just about the perfect amount of power for me. The bbs02 for that matter has enough power but having a torque sensor is a big improvement. I guess I'm more interested in exploring and going on long rides like 30- 40 miles over very long climbs and extremely rocky trails, so comfort handling and stamina are of prime importance. Huge amounts of torque and power and speed are not really what I'm looking for. I can generally just leave it on PAS 3 and go all day, whereas on a BBS02 I would be mashing the pas level up and down constantly.

I guess the battery build was the most custom aspect of this. I took a pack that came in a Hailong case, the cells are 2170s. The eBay seller was called cowellcowinbattery based in SoCal. I pulled out the cell pack and it almost fit in the frame except the BMS was attached on one side and it just was too tight. So I ended up cutting the BMS off and soldering on some longer wires so to mount the BMS on a different side and then shrunk wrap it all back together. So far so good it's in there nice and snug with a bit of padding around it. Of course with this setup it's very streamlined looking but the battery is not easily swappable, read on and you will see why that is kind of a drawback.

I have a few issues with how the motor is programmed regarding battery usage and not sure what the solution is. Obviously it's common knowledge now that the M600 is not programmable as previous Bafangs. I don't have much issue with the power level setups. My biggest gripe is when the battery is showing 20% on the display, the actual voltage of the pack is nearly 46 volts which is still pretty high and I certainly would not call that 20%, more like 45%. But at this point the motor seems to go into limp mode limiting max power output to about 225 W. At indicated 0% the the power cuts out, yet the battery is still over 42V. So I went to some lengths to put in a fairly huge battery, but I'm not getting all the energy that I want to out of it. Yes such conservative battery limits will keep your battery in wonderful shape for years, but I only take it down to these lower levels like once a month, so I think it will last for years anyway. I have read elsewhere here on the forums that someone came up with a way to adjust that shut off level down closer to like 38 volts or something which is much more reasonable. So I will investigate if I can get this firmware going on to my bike, at this point I don't have a besst tool yet and these firmwares seem highly experimental.

I believe I got the motor on Alibaba from China from a place called Greenpedel. I actually bought a silent PEEK gear from Luna but then on disassembling the motor I found already a plastic gear in it. I guess at some point Bafang started putting in plastic gears from the factory, although I've still heard of some motors new that are noisy. I find the motor to be pretty quiet, not as quiet as a bbs02 but acceptable.

Finding the right dropper post for this was a little challenging because the seat tube takes that angle bend so it's a bit on the short side. But I found one with really the perfect amount of travel so it worked out.

Otherwise my only gripe is that the little display dpc241 is small and stealthy however it's horrible, dim, you can read your speed and the pas level and everything else is microscopic. I might ask if anyone knows which displays work with this motor. My display is a little odd in that there are two cable connections coming out the back of it, a connection to the motor but also a connection on the back of it to the throttle. Other displays I can't tell if there's a throttle connection on them. Or do you use a separate connection wire coming from the motor harness to the throttle? I think there might be an extra wire that I tucked up inside the frame somewhere but I can't really remember hah.

Photo album of build: eMTB Build - LightCarbon LCES 004

 

[Dave Rand]

Very nice pictures.
I’ve just started my build
Hopefully get the battery cover finished this weekend just the brackets to make and Tig on. Also starting on the battery build tomorrow

“Lovely frame” let down by having to make a battery cover it would be soooo easy for Lightcarbon to manufacturer one for us battery builders

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I'm using the bigger color display Luna's 860c for Bafang M600. I like the center mount HUD. Color works well in direct AZ sunshine. Pros: just mentioned, Cons: could be half the size, the power/selector large and cheaply made, big wire connector flanges show...trying to keep the E-mtb as stealth as possible

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Very nice pictures.
I’ve just started my build
Hopefully get the battery cover finished this weekend just the brackets to make and Tig on. Also starting on the battery build tomorrow

“Lovely frame” let down by having to make a battery cover it would be soooo easy for Lightcarbon to manufacturer one for us battery builders

View attachment 86032

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View attachment 86036

Bravely done...looks great!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I have another smaller LCES004 in my build stand for a buddy ride and motor/parts backup. Looks a lot like the Trek Rail...I luv it...rides like my analog Enduro rig.

I use the four batteries: 2 smaller 450 Wh, and 2 bigger 600 Wh for M600. I typically use the 450s and backpack one on local rides with popular trails to keep the battery tube stealthy. I use the building 600s at night or when on remote adventure trips where none will see it

The meager battery capacity is the biggest down side...poor engineering by Bafang. For you battery builders, I would be interested in using the 21700 cell packs and ditch the Bafang (sell them) 600s.

So, thank you for leading the way on to upgrade to this major flaw Other the frame rocks and motor is robust

 

[Dave Rand]

We all need to email Lightcarbon and get them to do a cover