ICR Headsets for the SZZS-specific CEF50 build

[mike_kelly]

It should be but it only has two holes for cables.

 

[petkevich]

It looks like Nukeproof offers the ICR headset in ZS56 that we need. It also appears to be made by TOKEN.

https://www.wiggle.com/us/p/nukeproof-neutron-zs56-headset-int-cable-routed-black-option

In the installation instructions it looks like it has 4 very well sealed ports.
View attachment 114657

View attachment 115013

Super helpful in setting up my cef50 headset. Thanks for the reference

 

[kimochi]

wonder if anybody already found a good headset alternative for LCE930?

 

[clix]

For the upper headset:

ritchey:
Comp Logic-E Cartridge Drop-In 1.5" Headset Upper

acros:
is52-upper part for integrated cable routing (ICR)
and also need
is52 headset cover - integrated cable routing

FSA:
https://www.bike24.com/p2422400.html

These are the few that I know of. I haven't tried any of them, so I can't comment if they 100% fit.

 

[kimochi]

For the upper headset:

ritchey:
Comp Logic-E Cartridge Drop-In 1.5" Headset Upper

acros:
is52-upper part for integrated cable routing (ICR)
and also need
is52 headset cover - integrated cable routing

FSA:
https://www.bike24.com/p2422400.html

These are the few that I know of. I haven't tried any of them, so I can't comment if they 100% fit.

thank you. I'll also keep on checking.

 

[mike_kelly]

New from Zhaosheng.

 

[92se-r]

Is there a headset without the holes if we request the holes in frame for routing instead?

 

[mike_kelly]

Yes, just a standard Zero Stack headset.

 

[92se-r]

Yes, just a standard Integrated headset.

Do you have a link for one that would fit? Also, have you guys had instances of loose or sloppy headset fitment causing creaking or do you think its just cheap headset bearings going bad? I noticed a few comments about creaking in headset area

 

[mike_kelly]

Could not tell you since neither of my bikes creak. I use the Token made Nukeproof ICR. I edited my comment above because the headset is a zero stack not an integrated. Acros makes a ZS56/66. But It seems there is a little confusion because some people believe they have a ZS52/66 headset. If you used a 52 in a frame milled out for 56 you certainly would get creaking. I am not sure what is going on but mine are definitely ZS56 on the top.

zs56 headset upper part

Semi-integrated headset (zs) for frames with 56mm head tube at the top. In our zs56-headset-upper-part the combination of stainless steel angular ball bearings and well thought-out sealings ensure longevity with minimum maintenance and...

acros-components.com

 

[92se-r]

Cane Creek 40 ZS56/28.6 Top Headset Black

Wonder why the Cane Creek 40-Series ZS - Zero Stack Headset is a mountain biker favorite in the Headset Upper collection? Part #BAA2202K. 40-Series Zero Stack headsets set the standard for performance, durability and value. Drawing from the premium 110-Series design, the 40-Series includes all...

www.worldwidecyclery.com

Would this work for the top?

 

[mike_kelly]

Yes if your frame is indeed ZS56.

 

[92se-r]

Yes if your frame is indeed ZS56.

Ill pop cups out and measure with calipers when i get it

 

[mike_kelly]

I should also note that the cef50 and lce930 are different, my comments were related to the cef50.
You can just measure the bearing, easier.

 

[92se-r]

Ahh yes, will be getting cef50

 

[mike_kelly]

Well lets go over to the conversation thread and ask people.

 

[patdam]

Could not tell you since neither of my bikes creak. I use the Token made Nukeproof ICR. I edited my comment above because the headset is a zero stack not an integrated. Acros makes a ZS56/66. But It seems there is a little confusion because some people believe they have a ZS52/66 headset. If you used a 52 in a frame milled out for 56 you certainly would get creaking. I am not sure what is going on but mine are definitely ZS56 on the top.

zs56 headset upper part

Semi-integrated headset (zs) for frames with 56mm head tube at the top. In our zs56-headset-upper-part the combination of stainless steel angular ball bearings and well thought-out sealings ensure longevity with minimum maintenance and...

acros-components.com

with this one i still had play on my pivot. solved by using upper part of this set (with original insert)

mod56/66 - angle headset 0,6°

With our mod56/66 angle headset you can change the steering angle of your bike in no time at all. This results in a maximum steering angle adjustment of up to 0,6° and it can only be fitted to frames that have been prepared for this...

acros-components.com

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Well lets go over to the conversation thread and ask people.

Old ZSSZ IRC upper headset:

Bearing size is 52OD x 40ID.

New ZSSZ ICR upper headset:

Bearing size is 52OD x 42ID.

The new is thinner by 2 mm.

Blue is old. Red is new. You're welcome!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

As others have probably stayed to clarify confusing systems: internal v. external. Both SZZS CEF50 and LCE930 are ZS.

ZS is just the bearing/w cup internal to the headtube of the frame.
It's also called "semi-integrated" as an older term.
Fully integrated means the frame manufacturer has the bearing "cup" made into the frame. So, no separate cup but has the internal bearing.

Need proof? See references .

Everything You Need To Know About Headsets - Cane Creek

A comprehensive guide on how to measure, identify, and understand headsets for bicycles. Visit our site to learn more.

canecreek.com

BBB Cycling - Buyer's Guide | Headsets

All information about headsets and their different types; Zero Stack, Integral and External Cup are discussed to make sure you will get the right headset bearing for your bike.

bbbcycling.com

 

[mike_kelly]

That is the confusion. Headset specs quote the internal bore of the headtube not the bearing size. So a ZS56 is a zero stack pressfit bearing cup for a 56mm bore headtube top.

 

[92se-r]

Yah i always understood headset part numbers to be head tube ID's and nothing to do with bearing sizes

 

[TCFlowClyde]

That is the confusion. Headset specs quote the internal bore of the headtube not the bearing size. So a ZS56 is a zero stack pressfit bearing cup for a 56mm bore headtube top.
View attachment 131206

Yup Mike confusing. I offered only bearing sizes for the new and old SZZS ICR. And that it's ZS.

But some headset companies like Chris King and Cane Creek have compatibility recommendations for 52 mm headset bearings that work for ZS and IS for various headset sizes ZS56/ZS44/ZS42 common in Mtbs AND newer E-mtbs. So, one doesn't always have to guess. Plus, they would rather sell the complete headset, so I guess manufacturers figure that's the least confusing for the consumer? Until, the bearings sizes are needed to replace or just be upgraded in my case...then the hunt begins!

My experience is that stock headset bearings are FSA generics-low to mid quality. So, I planned on upgrading at the outset. I also found the lower ZS cup on my other DIY E-mtb builds from Dengfu and Light Carbon to be out of spec and junk. Just like the SZZS one was when installed to see how bad the slack it created. I had my Acros 66 bearing set up for the upgrade install and works well as planned. Good upgrade! IMHO.

Both Old SZZS top cap worked with my 52/40 Enduro bearing upgrade. And for the New SZZS top cap, my new Hellbender 52/42 upgrade works.

Side note: I did get creaking after hard driven rain on the Old SZZS top cap that had a gap. I just re-greased with Park grease that seemed to help. Now using Phil Wood waterproof grease for extra protection. However, the New SZZS top cap has a taller bearing cup that looks to cover the gap to prevent water ingress. I'll know if I ride in the rain, which is rare here in the desert.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Both are snug when mounted...no play. New left (white plastic IRC insert/reducer) old right (black metal insert/reducer).

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Reducer measured at narrowest portion:
New

Old

Conclusion: +/-2 mm

 

[mike_kelly]

It is confusing because the industry also likes to round up. The 41.8mm size is half the time referred to as 42mm.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

It is confusing because the industry also likes to round up. The 41.8mm size is half the time referred to as 42mm.

! And ICR is still new to the mtb/E-mtb industry, so mainly proprietary with frame manufacturers. I'm glad a premium brand like Acros was responding to the E-mtb demands with oversized headsets for some ICR universal compatibility.

Unfortunately, both Chris King and Cane Creek have no plans to serve the ICR demand anytime soon according to my convos last year with corporate sales reps when searching for ICR. Quality but becoming a little overpriced.

I was hoping that WolfTooth brand was going to step up...they make some great headsets and are a smaller company, and like CC use Enduro brand sealed bearings in their well-machined assemblies...nice color choices too for those that want bling matching factor.

 

[mike_kelly]

I use Wolftooth everywhere else but like you pointed out they don't make bearings as big as the CEF50 uses. Too bad.

 

[El Topo]

Thanks for collecting the different options in this thread.

Is there a way to use a reach adjust, or angle head sets, on frames that use these ICR headsets?
I am about to finally pull the trigger on a E56, but then I noticed that tiny detail about it...

 

[mike_kelly]

The headset is very large because of the ICR headset. So most of the makers that supply headsets don't make their angle headsets for that large a size. I think the only possibility is the angleset made by Acro in Germany.

mod56/66 - angle headset 0,6°

With our mod56/66 angle headset you can change the steering angle of your bike in no time at all. This results in a maximum steering angle adjustment of up to 0,6° and it can only be fitted to frames that have been prepared for this...

acros-components.com

The problem is whether the ACRO angle headset works with the ICR top cap. But you can order the CEF50 without the ICR headset and they will put cable entries on the sides of the top tube like a normal internal cable route.
I have never figured out what kind of headset is used on the LCES930. The headtube size is non-tapered 1.5 but is it integrated or zero stack etc. Hopefully a 930 user will update us.

 

[patdam]

The headset is very large because of the ICR headset. So most of the makers that supply headsets don't make their angle headsets for that large a size. I think the only possibility is the angleset made by Acro in Germany.

mod56/66 - angle headset 0,6°

With our mod56/66 angle headset you can change the steering angle of your bike in no time at all. This results in a maximum steering angle adjustment of up to 0,6° and it can only be fitted to frames that have been prepared for this...

acros-components.com

The problem is whether the ACRO angle headset works with the ICR top cap. But you can order the CEF50 without the ICR headset and they will put cable entries on the sides of the top tube like a normal internal cable route.
I have never figured out what kind of headset is used on the LCES930. The headtube size is non-tapered 1.5 but is it integrated or zero stack etc. Hopefully a 930 user will update us.

take care, i think that ACROS ZS56/66 angle set don't fit on LCES50.