I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase

[Mhugdoc]

I guess my previous post is not posted yet as the moderator apparently is screening it.

 

[MattyG]

Hi MattyG, welcome to the forum! I realized I need a picture that shows the name of each part as this should make it less confusing when referring to a specific piece so I just did that here:

View attachment 10238
Based on your description it sounds like the sun gear is not sitting tight to the wheel hub, is that correct? Is it slightly loose, or really loose? If it is only slightly loose could you wrap a layer of electrical tape on the hub to make it a tight fit? There should be no sliding between the sun gear and the hub. The cover also mounts to the hub so is it also loose?

Now that I think about it, if the sun gear is able to rotate on the hub it would negate the gear reduction and I think you would be left with the usual speed limit so maybe that is what's happening here. If you have any pictures that could help as well.

Previous post updated. The Sun Gear is really loose, I am away from the bike now but guessing 1mm gap around sun gear versus hub. Cover is similarly loose.

I'll try the electric tape plan, but potentially for these hubs we'd need a smaller hole for the Cover and Sun Gear. (Edit - I will try rubber washers)

I was surprised that it was bang on 25 kmh given the chaos of Sun Gear slipping around hub and Planetary Gear would have been doing who knows what. Beating the 'system' is always a bit of fun.

 

[MattyG]

Mattyg
See the post above yours. I have the expert and had the exact same problem.
I went to Lowe’s and picked up some #13 rubber washers. I placed about 8 or 10 on over the hub then put the inner gear on over the washers. This created the right fit and worked great. I even had to put one over the dust cover as it doesn’t fit snug like it does on the comp.
Good luck!

Thanks Mhugdoc,
Those washers sound great, I couldn't find #13 on Lowes site, I am in Australia, do you have the dimensions so I can try and find them locally? Thanks in advance.

 

[MattyG]

Also just on the subject of top speed - I've been messing around with an unrestricted 2018 Levo (set to max 75kmh via BLevo). My experience is that getting much higher than 40kph on the flats is unrealistic unless you change the cassette. The reason is that you end up with a very high cadence very quickly as you speed up and you still need to add power to get pedal assist. At least for me, it proved hard to add much power when spinning at extremely high cadence. So I think the +50% from the Planetary Gear is pretty close to what would be useful in the real world.

 

[jd_3d]

Thanks @MattyG and @Mhugdoc for all the feedback. MattyG, yes you hit the nail on the head, I didn't realize the different specs of bikes use different rear hubs (I had checked rotors, and thankfully the rotors are the same). So it looks like there are 3 completely different rear hubs each of which probably have different diameters:

Rear Hubs:
Turbo Levo & Comp Carbon - Specialized, sealed cartridge bearings

Turbo Levo Expert - DT Swiss 360, 3-pawl design, SRAM XD driver body

S-Works Turbo Levo - Roval Traverse SL, DT Swiss Star Ratchet, 54t engagement, SRAM XD driver body

I can easily make a few LSS variations for the different hubs but I'll need to know the exact diameter of the hub body. Does anyone have a pair of calipers that they could measure the hub diameter for the Levo Expert (and S-Works)?

@Mhugdoc, looking forward to reading your post when it gets approved I wonder if an external hyperlink triggered a review to make sure it wasn't spam?

 

[Mhugdoc]

Oops. They are #10 0-rings.

Sorry no calipers.

 

[Mhugdoc]

Here is the o-rings

 

[oldfox]

I can easily make a few LSS variations for the different hubs but I'll need to know the exact diameter of the hub body.

Exactly 19mm diameter for my DT-Swiss HXC 1200 would be very kind. At the moment I use an aluminium tube with 19mm inner and 22mm outer diameter.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I guess my previous post is not posted yet as the moderator apparently is screening it.

Sorry for the delay, as you had under 10 posts some posts get incorrectly flagged as potential spam (pics / links etc) and need manually approving. You're all good now!

 

[oldfox]

So, here is my provisional solution for a thinner axis:

 

[Mhugdoc]

My o-ring fix isn’t that trick. In fact I may try and modify it due to the sun gear not sitting flush. Hopefully new part options will be available for different diameter hubs.

 

[MattyG]

My o-ring fix isn’t that trick. In fact I may try and modify it due to the sun gear not sitting flush. Hopefully new part options will be available for different diameter hubs.

Sorry Mhugdoc, are you saying the o-rings aren't working that well?

 

[jd_3d]

So, here is my provisional solution for a thinner axis:

Awesome setup @oldfox! I like your ingenuity. Thank you for measuring the axle diameter, I created a new version for the Levo Expert and created a product that contains just the sun gear and cover with the new smaller diameters. I set the inner diameter to exactly 19mm, so hopefully it is a good fit. For anyone with a Levo expert that doesn't want to mess with shimming the axle you can grab the new parts here:

LSS Cover and Sun Gear for Levo Expert w/ DT Swiss by JD_3D on Shapeways

For anyone who does get the new parts, please let the community know if they fit well

 

[Mhugdoc]

So here is my tweek:
I had one to many o-rings. I put enough o-rings on the hub so that when I put the sun gear over an o-ring the o-ring that the sun gear was on wouldn’t push in on the hub. Also I found it MUCH easier to put the initial o-rings on the hub until flush with the ring gear, then I put the sun gear on, holding it flush against the ring gear then tucked the final o-ring under the sun gear. Easy peasy. Then I put the dust cover on then one o-ring over that,centered, then mounted wheel. Works beautifully!!
If and when we get hub specific parts I may switch but this is solid.
Also I put a spare magnet in my SWAT tool just in case.

 

[Mhugdoc]

 

[jd_3d]

If and when we get hub specific parts I may switch but this is solid.
Also I put a spare magnet in my SWAT tool just in case.

Your setup looks solid, thanks for the pics. I actually did create hub specific parts but I put the info in a reply to someone (above) which may make it easy to miss. I'll create a new post with the info so it's easier to find.

 

[jd_3d]

Part VII

The beta version of the LSS seems to be working well for several people, but it brought to light one big difference between the different specs of Levo's. The Levo can be spec'd with 3 different hubs, and the Levo Expert's hub axle has a smaller diameter.

If you happened to have purchased the beta LSS and have a Levo Expert with the smaller diameter hub axle, I have created new versions of the sun gear and cover so they should hopefully fit better. I set the inner diameter to exactly 19mm. For anyone with a Levo Expert that doesn't want to mess with shimming the axle you can grab the new parts here ($15 for white, $20 for black):

LSS Cover and Sun Gear for Levo Expert w/ DT Swiss by JD_3D on Shapeways

For anyone who does get the new parts, please let the community know if they fit well

 

[MattyG]

Part VII

The beta version of the LSS seems to be working well for several people, but it brought to light one big difference between the different specs of Levo's. The Levo can be spec'd with 3 different hubs, and the Levo Expert's hub axle has a smaller diameter.

If you happened to have purchased the beta LSS and have a Levo Expert with the smaller diameter hub axle, I have created new versions of the sun gear and cover so they should hopefully fit better. I set the inner diameter to exactly 19mm. For anyone with a Levo Expert that doesn't want to mess with shimming the axle you can grab the new parts here ($15 for white, $20 for black):

LSS Cover and Sun Gear for Levo Expert w/ DT Swiss by JD_3D on Shapeways

For anyone who does get the new parts, please let the community know if they fit well

That's awesome jd_3d, I'll order Levo expert parts now. I am getting a total of three LSS as I have two mates who are keen (one with Comp and one with S-work). Is your understanding that the S-works Levo is fine with your original design? If you are not sure I can try and fit to his Sworks bike this afternoon and report back.

 

[Meursault]

2019 S-Works owner subbing to this thread.

Took my bike out for the first time today and it is a boat anchor on the street and fire roads over 20mph.

Must. Remove. Speed. Restriction.

Thanks for all your hard work on this JD_3D! As soon as the S-Works is confirmed I'd like to try it out!

 

[TPX]

Part VII

For anyone with a Levo Expert that doesn't want to mess with shimming the axle you can grab the new parts here ($15 for white, $20 for black):

LSS Cover and Sun Gear for Levo Expert w/ DT Swiss by JD_3D on Shapeways

HI, so can you buy the full version for a DT set rather than buy both versions to make it work?

 

[oldfox]

Short info: The 19mm diameter is from my DT Swiss HXC 1200 Carbon Wheelset, not from the Levo Expert. Probably it's the same, because 19mm is also the size of the frame intake. (<-- sorry for my shitty english!)

 

[jd_3d]

That's awesome jd_3d, I'll order Levo expert parts now. I am getting a total of three LSS as I have two mates who are keen (one with Comp and one with S-work). Is your understanding that the S-works Levo is fine with your original design? If you are not sure I can try and fit to his Sworks bike this afternoon and report back.

I still haven't heard from anyone on the fitment for S-works with the carbon rear end, so if you are able to test-fit it on your mates bike that would be great! Also would be good to know the axle diameter on the S-works model (hopefully 19mm!).

 

[jd_3d]

HI, so can you buy the full version for a DT set rather than buy both versions to make it work?

Hi TPX, yes I can add another product for the DT swiss, but I'm still not 100% sure on the fitment yet. I just saw on the forums that @oldfox has and aftermarket wheelset (DT Swiss HXC 1200 Carbon Wheelset ) in which he measured the 19mm (which may have a different axle size then the Levo Expert wheelset). I will do it as soon as I'm more certain on the fitment.

 

[jd_3d]

Short info: The 19mm diameter is from my DT Swiss HXC 1200 Carbon Wheelset, not from the Levo Expert. Probably it's the same, because 19mm is also the size of the frame intake. (<-- sorry for my shitty english!)

Thanks for the clarification oldfox. I didn't realize you had an aftermarket wheelset. Hopefully all the DT Swiss axles are the same diameter for the Levos. Fingers crossed.

 

[Meursault]

I still haven't heard from anyone on the fitment for S-works with the carbon rear end, so if you are able to test-fit it on your mates bike that would be great! Also would be good to know the axle diameter on the S-works model (hopefully 19mm!).

I'll try to buy a cheap caliper from harbor freight and measure it in the next couple days. Here is one for just $2 6 In. Utility Caliper

Thanks! BTW, I'm in SF Bay Area - are you nearby?

 

[Highflyer]

Hi jd_3d, I have the S-Works. Tell me or show me exactly what needs to be measured and I will do it right now !!

 

[jd_3d]

Hi jd_3d, I have the S-Works. Tell me or show me exactly what needs to be measured and I will do it right now !!

Thanks Highflyer. It would be great to get measurements from several people to ensure there is consistency. We need 2 measurements:

Axle
Using calipers, measure the rear hub axle diameter on the non-drive side (near the brake rotor). Also check if the axle diameter is consistent throughout the length.

LSS Frame Clearance
The best way I can think of to measure is to cut out a cylinder (maybe out of cardboard) that is 60mm in diameter and 8.5mm thick. That would represent the dimensions of the LSS. If you put an inner hole in it too (equal to the axle diameter) then you can mount it on your wheel and then mount the wheel on the bike and make sure it's not touching anywhere.
If it does touch, I actually have a small taper on the LSS so it actually tapers down to 57.5mm diameter on the side that is against the frame so you can factor that in too.

I realize this is a lot of work, so it may be better for someone who has an S-Works to borrow someone's LSS for a fitment test.

 

[jd_3d]

I'll try to buy a cheap caliper from harbor freight and measure it in the next couple days. Here is one for just $2 6 In. Utility Caliper

Thanks! BTW, I'm in SF Bay Area - are you nearby?

That would be great, thanks! I live in Southern California.

 

[Highflyer]

Understood. Can you post some close up photos of your LSS fitted so I can see the clearance. Take the pictures from the side and also in plan view.

 

[jd_3d]

Understood. Can you post some close up photos of your LSS fitted so I can see the clearance. Take the pictures from the side and also in plan view.

Yes, check out the clearance photos on this post:
I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase - EMTB Forums