I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase

[Tunny]

This thread is ace! There's alot of interesting threads on the forum but this is one of the best imo.

Keep up the good work with your device and any future developments. If this were to go into production it would be great to see a 2018 Levo version

 

[R120]

I've got a Specialized Kenevo with the magnet on the brake rotor. It looks like the badass box works with spoke mounted magnets. I don't think it a badass would work with a Kenevo though please correct me if I'm wrong.

No it don't think ti will, they make them for brose, but not I think for when the sensor is placed as it is on the specialized. Was more demonstrating that the what you where proposing is viable.

 

[R120]

It interesting as more and more bikes are moving to disc brake mounted magnets, not just Specilized.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Wow, what an interesting and clever device. I think you're just about to make some serious coin. Especially all those 2019 levo owners who are waiting for blevo or other apps to unlock it, which doesn't seem to be happening.

 

[steve_sordy]

I sincerely hope that you have patented this device. You are doing all the work and telling the world how to make one. If one of the big bike makers gets wind of this they may patent it just to stop you producing it!

 

[jd_3d]

I sincerely hope that you have patented this device. You are doing all the work and telling the world how to make one. If one of the big bike makers gets wind of this they may patent it just to stop you producing it!

No patent, I literally just made it over the past 2-3 weeks. I'm not even sure if it is patent-able? I mean planetary gears have been around for 100s of years, can someone find a new use for them and patent that use? I hope not, but that would seriously suck if Specialized or some other bike company patented it only to squash the idea.

If that happens, I'll double-down and design a new method to overcome the limit

 

[steve_sordy]

I believe that if you have any ambitions to make and supply these then you need to check patent laws.
People cannot patent wheels, levers, pivots, bearings, gears, lubrication, hydraulics, basic batteries, internal combustion engines and so much more; but they can use all of these things in new ways to come up with something that is patent-able because nobody else has ever combined them in that innovative way before.

I am not a patent lawyer (or indeed any kind of lawyer), so you must do your own homework. But please, do take steps to protect your intellectual property! Strangely, seeing as you have published your ideas for all to see, you may find that having done so on this Forum, with its time-dated posts, will have at least proved when you came up with the idea along with a clear exposition of its development.

Take heart from the feedback that you have received from interested members. You seem to have a simple mechanical way of overcoming speed limitations placed upon eBikes.

CAUTION: But this is something that every bike manufacturer will be able to do very cheaply indeed but they cannot do so legally. Therefore will you be legally allowed to register a patent that is designed to facilitate something illegal? Any contract to do something illegal is "ultra vires", it means "outside the law". In other words any contract to do something illegal is automatically void and has no force. So you may be unable to secure a patent and therefore unable to provide any protection at all for your idea.

 

[craig landau]

after seeing this i was thinking , would it be easier to adjust the wheel size in the system, eg my wheel dia is 720 mm @ 2261 mm per rev , lets say it spun 100 times per min , 60 min per hr = 13.566 kph
if i put in a size of 600 dia - 1130 mm per rev 100 rpm x 60 = 6.780 kph
wouldnt that trick the motor to go faster ????

 

[MattyB]

after seeing this i was thinking , would it be easier to adjust the wheel size in the system, eg my wheel dia is 720 mm @ 2261 mm per rev , lets say it spun 100 times per min , 60 min per hr = 13.566 kph
if i put in a size of 600 dia - 1130 mm per rev 100 rpm x 60 = 6.780 kph
wouldnt that trick the motor to go faster ????

It would, but the manufacturers have got smart to this and are making it far harder - they know legislators want to see them doing the maximum to ensure their systems are operated in line with the law.

 

[MattyB]

I believe that if you have any ambitions to make and supply these then you need to check patent laws.
People cannot patent wheels, levers, pivots, bearings, gears, lubrication, hydraulics, basic batteries, internal combustion engines and so much more; but they can use all of these things in new ways to come up with something that is patent-able because nobody else has ever combined them in that innovative way before.

I am not a patent lawyer (or indeed any kind of lawyer), so you must do your own homework. But please, do take steps to protect your intellectual property! Strangely, seeing as you have published your ideas for all to see, you may find that having done so on this Forum, with its time-dated posts, will have at least proved when you came up with the idea along with a clear exposition of its development.

Take heart from the feedback that you have received from interested members. You seem to have a simple mechanical way of overcoming speed limitations placed upon eBikes.

CAUTION: But this is something that every bike manufacturer will be able to do very cheaply indeed but they cannot do so legally. Therefore will you be legally allowed to register a patent that is designed to facilitate something illegal? Any contract to do something illegal is "ultra vires", it means "outside the law". In other words any contract to do something illegal is automatically void and has no force. So you may be unable to secure a patent and therefore unable to provide any protection at all for your idea.

I don’t really agree with this tbh. Protecting your gadget with a patent may sound sensible, but unless you also have the resources to protect it in court the time and expense of getting it is worthless.

Besides, let’s be honest - who is most likely exploit this idea? Is it a major western player who would damage their brand selling a product that facilitates buyers in breaking the law, or a nameless far eastern manufacturer operating from a country with no meaningful IP law, selling direct via eBay? It’s unfortunate, but a patent is completely worthless in this situation. You would be better partnering with an eastern manufacturer, have them supplied direct and take a cut. It will still be vhard to make it pay though, even if demand is strong.

 

[R120]

TBH if thinking of monetising it, then maybe charging to download the instructions is the way forward? Aside from finding a manufacturing partner, you have to deal with warrantying, after sales, and customer service and that's often what sinks small companies. You would also have to deal with the insurances etc in case someone injured themselves when using it, I would have thought.

At the end of the day this is a niche product, which would be very popular, but I would have thought the costs of getting ti to market probably wouldn't mean much if any profit left in selling at a reasonable price, unless you have the time and ability to make them yourself.

 

[Jimmy Gipsy]

I read everything, congratulations you deserve

 

[Sepp62]

You could market your design via Shapeways - Create Your Product. Build Your Business

 

[Slowroller]

As someone who turns rotors purple on the regular, I'm wondering how much heat might make it all the way down to your thermoplastic? Testing will tell I guess

 

[jd_3d]

You could market your design via Shapeways - Create Your Product. Build Your Business

Hey Sepp,

Yes, I've been using Shapeways for many years they are great (even put a few items up for sale many years ago). I think this may be the best way to go since the Nylon material has a much higher glass transition temp (i.e, resistance to softening at higher temps) vs. PLA from a consumer 3d printer. Only downside is the costs would be significantly higher than printing from home, but I still think it could be within reason vs. comparable products that do the same thing.

 

[jd_3d]

As someone who turns rotors purple on the regular, I'm wondering how much heat might make it all the way down to your thermoplastic? Testing will tell I guess

Yeah, that is a bit of an unknown as well. Using Nylon should significantly increase the temperature range it can handle. Next time you heat up your rotors can you feel the center of them and let me know how hot they feel?

 

[jd_3d]

First failure! On a ride today I started hearing strange sounds coming from the rear wheel. I stopped at a park and inspected and the dust cover was completely chewed up. See all that gunk on it? That's my frame's clear coat and paint (thankfully it's on the inside which you can't see anyway).

At first I couldn't understand how it happened, but then I realized my stupidity. Recall I had switched my rotor bolts to titanium? Well, not only did I not properly torque them with a torque wrench, I didn't even use loctite. At the time I was in prototyping mode and wasn't concerned with those things. But I never went back and installed them properly. So, after ~80 miles the rear brake rotor had become completely loose (it was literally flopping around).

So, ironically, nothing was actually wrong with my planetary gear set, in fact the dust cover valiantly sacrificed itself to keep my rotor from falling off the bike. It also kept all my titanium screws from popping out.

I also learned that in the case of a failure of the planetary gearset you can simply take the magnet and put it directly on the rotor. The super-high magnetic attraction keeps it there and the bike works like normal with the original speed limit. That's what I did on the ride home after tightening the rotor:

Just wanted to make this quick post as I think it's important to show not only the successes but the failures as well. Off to buy some loctite!

EDIT: A fellow member on here reminded me I need a name for this product, he helped me come up with the idea of calling it The LSS (informally short for The Levo Speed Solution).

 

[njn]

I like it. Dust cover looks a bit small and the gap too big, but that can be refined.

Loctite should help, but you might not be able to get the rotor bolts torqued to spec. The printed part may deform or flex when tightening.

As for the legality, a disclaimer is should suffice.

 

[jd_3d]

I like it. Dust cover looks a bit small and the gap too big, but that can be refined.

Loctite should help, but you might not be able to get the rotor bolts torqued to spec. The printed part may deform or flex when tightening.

As for the legality, a disclaimer is should suffice.

Hi Njn,

To clarify, the printed parts do not touch the rotor bolts in any way. It would not be safe to torque the bolts onto plastic, as you would not be able to achieve proper torque. That is why I designed the retaining ring that clips directly on the rotor to hold the ring gear in place (see the images on page 1).

To install 'The LSS' (my new name for it, short for Levo Speed Solution) you do not need to unscrew your rotor bolts at all, the gears slip right over them.

 

[outerlimits]

I know your LSS just clips onto the rotor.
Have you thought a stick could dislodge it, causing problems.
Have you looked into a more secure and universal way of attaching to the rotor ?
Maybe sandwich the rotor between the LSS and a plate on the inside of the rotor ?

 

[njn]

I missed a few details on first few posts, props on the clip system.

 

[Maastricht]

It would, but the manufacturers have got smart to this and are making it far harder - they know legislators want to see them doing the maximum to ensure their systems are operated in line with the law.

Next generation TCU's are expected to have an on board GPS receiving function. We could question ourselves why would Specialized add this feature?

A sending function could be used against theft? But why would they like to add a GPS receiving function?

 

[khorn]

.......or could be used to prevent de-restriction.


Karsten

 

[m1bjr]

You could market your design via Shapeways - Create Your Product. Build Your Business

Yup - I bought someones printed Wahoo mount for my quite unique Trek Madone 9 mount. Great idea for a small volume product like this.

 

[m1bjr]

Next generation TCU's are expected to have an on board GPS receiving function. We could question ourselves why would Specialized add this feature?

A sending function could be used against theft? But why would they like to add a GPS receiving function?

To expand the capability of the head unit into a navigation tool too - like a Wahoo/Garmin/etc

 

[m1bjr]

Being able to make an electronic adjustment is so much easier. And can plug in between the sensor and harness so easy to fit remove (inside the motor outer casing on a Levo).
This is a simple inductive sensor on most emtb, and a simple firmware program divides the incoming sensor frequency by 2, once above a certain threshold.. its arguably far easier than a mechanical solution.

 

[MattyB]

...I think this may be the best way to go since the Nylon material has a much higher glass transition temp (i.e, resistance to softening at higher temps) vs. PLA from a consumer 3d printer. Only downside is the costs would be significantly higher than printing from home, but I still think it could be within reason vs. comparable products that do the same thing.

Yep, if this can be made reliable and robust I would not worry too much about the price - it should still be cheaper than the alternatives, and Levo buyers are used to paying a premium...

 

[Maastricht]

To expand the capability of the head unit into a navigation tool too - like a Wahoo/Garmin/etc

What would be the added value of a GPS receiving function in the bike on top of the GPS receiver which is already part of these Wahoo/Garmin type devices?

I think @khorn is right but we will see what the future will bring.

 

[nicklej]

Just caught my eye on this thread. Absolutely wicked how such a simple idea can be made by the right person for the enjoyment of people on here.

Hopefully you can get a small batch into production for people who want one and I hopefully no other 3rd party manufacturers click onto this. Defo a space to watch!

 

[craig landau]

i read somewhere that you remove the magnet from the wheel and attach to the crank , mount the sensor on the frame to pick up the crank magnet and it will do the same thing ur doing