I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase

[Eljay]

Ah that makes sense!

 

[JAMh]

Hi

After several months using this item, I'm thinking about other ways to unlimit because I have sometimes a ERROR 114 (or 144) and it STOPS my motor. Blinks two lines in red and blue and after five seconds aprox it starts again.

It always happens going up. mostly in rough slopes but also in soft hills. In Turbo, trail and Eco, with high and low cadence, always at low speed (between 4 and 9 km/h); what makes my think that the "brain" thinks that bikes is stopped and cuts help.

I've cleaned it several times, remonted and grease without any problem.
Some of the times it's been really dangerous...

Anyone with the same problem?
Any suggestion?

 

[jd_3d]

Hi

After several months using this item, I'm thinking about other ways to unlimit because I have sometimes a ERROR 114 (or 144) and it STOPS my motor. Blinks two lines in red and blue and after five seconds aprox it starts again.

It always happens going up. mostly in rough slopes but also in soft hills. In Turbo, trail and Eco, with high and low cadence, always at low speed (between 4 and 9 km/h); what makes my think that the "brain" thinks that bikes is stopped and cuts help.

I've cleaned it several times, remonted and grease without any problem.
Some of the times it's been really dangerous...

Anyone with the same problem?
Any suggestion?

Hi @JAMh. I've never come across this issue nor heard anyone having this problem. However, I rarely ride that slow on the hills in my area. Have you tried taking off the LSS for a few weeks to see if the problem persists? If it was the Levo thinking the bike had 'stopped' I would think using a higher gear (slower cadence) would help the issue, since the bike would see less crank revolutions for each wheel revolution. Anyone know how to look up that error code?

 

[Mina08]

Ok changed back to the sram disc, still not happy with the gap, its slightly warped (bent), can i be sent a replacement?

 

[jd_3d]

Ok changed back to the sram disc, still not happy with the gap, its slightly warped (bent), can i be sent a replacement? View attachment 19322

Hi @Mina08, I'll PM you so we can troubleshoot further.

 

[Ginge]

WOW, Fantastic work @jd_3d , I'm well impressed, and a little jealous!

its took me 3 days (off and on obviously) but I've finally read every post! I have just picked up my 2019 Levo HT today.

I noted a couple of posts re this bike. but the most recent on Mid June ws that it may fit with the universal mount?

Has anybody tried this and do you think it will work.

I have attached some pics below, including the specs of the bike.

I'm not that clued up with MTBs so any help you could offer will be amazing?

(Please ignore the pannier rack)

 

[jd_3d]

WOW, Fantastic work @jd_3d , I'm well impressed, and a little jealous!

its took me 3 days (off and on obviously) but I've finally read every post! I have just picked up my 2019 Levo HT today.

I noted a couple of posts re this bike. but the most recent on Mid June ws that it may fit with the universal mount?

Has anybody tried this and do you think it will work.

I have attached some pics below, including the specs of the bike.

I'm not that clued up with MTBs so any help you could offer will be amazing?

(Please ignore the pannier rack)

Thank you @Ginge for the kind words. I'm impressed you read all 22 pages of this thread

Looking at your pics, it looks like your Levo HT still uses the old magnet placement which is a little more outboard like in the 2018 Levos. Your axle also looks very similar to the regular Levos so I'm guessing that part would fit. Obviously the rotor is different so that would need the universal fit rotor mount.

So if you like to tinker, you could try this:
Beta - LSS Gear Set for Levo 2017/2018 by JD_3D on Shapeways

Along with the mount:
Universal Brake Rotor Mount for LSS by JD_3D on Shapeways

I can't say it will work for sure, but if you go for it please report back or PM me with any questions.

 

[brandolph]

Question about mileage. Sorry if it's already been answered here.
I installed my lss with exactly 400 miles on bike. Now showing that I've done 120 more at 520.
Have I actually done 180 or 240 miles since install?

 

[55plusmxinsanity]

How much faster is it again? A fellow rider claims to be able to reach 40mph.

 

[jd_3d]

Question about mileage. Sorry if it's already been answered here.
I installed my lss with exactly 400 miles on bike. Now showing that I've done 120 more at 520.
Have I actually done 180 or 240 miles since install?

The multiplier is 1.5x. So 180 miles.

 

[jd_3d]

How much faster is it again? A fellow rider claims to be able to reach 40mph.

It increases the assist speed by 1.5x. So around 30mph for usa. Plenty fast in my opinion.

 

[55plusmxinsanity]

It increases the assist speed by 1.5x. So around 30mph for usa. Plenty fast in my opinion.

Thanks, this rider is claiming 3-1 on his product he bought. Same design as yours.

 

[jd_3d]

Thanks, this rider is claiming 3-1 on his product he bought. Same design as yours.

Yeah, that product copied my idea (but changed their design in a few ways). I guess it was bound to happen as I was very open about documenting the design and prototyping of it here on this forum. I try to be very helpful in answering people's questions on the LSS and in return people on here have supported it.

 

[Tango.Oscar.Mike]

Hi everyone, Hi JD! Sorry for chiming in here from nowhere, but that is exactly the topic / product I was looking for.

What a great ingenious idea / product you came up with! Fascinating!
Just got my brand new Levo 2019 last week and read through the whole thread - very interesting. Half way through I was eager to order one set of your LSS and did so with your provided link, only to find out a couple of pages later, that there is already a V2.0 available. So why do you still offer the original design, when there is a better version now?
Also if I would have known that the smal gear only lasts about 500km I would have ordered a spare immeditatley, because the shipping cost for these plastic parts are quite hefty and will double the gear price for me. Aynways, too late, but looking forward know the reason why V1 is still available.
Many thanks in advance!
Tom

 

[jd_3d]

Hi everyone, Hi JD! Sorry for chiming in here from nowhere, but that is exactly the topic / product I was looking for.

What a great ingenious idea / product you came up with! Fascinating!
Just got my brand new Levo 2019 last week and read through the whole thread - very interesting. Half way through I was eager to order one set of your LSS and did so with your provided link, only to find out a couple of pages later, that there is already a V2.0 available. So why do you still offer the original design, when there is a better version now?
Also if I would have known that the smal gear only lasts about 500km I would have ordered a spare immeditatley, because the shipping cost for these plastic parts are quite hefty and will double the gear price for me. Aynways, too late, but looking forward know the reason why V1 is still available.
Many thanks in advance!
Tom

Hi Tom,

Congrats on getting your new Levo! Regarding the LSS vs LSS 2.0, first I want to assure you there's nothing wrong with the original LSS, it will perform just as good as the 2.0. I made the 2.0 version mainly for better clearance for people running aftermarket rotors or people with the S-Works model with the carbon rear end which has less clearance. But otherwise the original LSS actually has more material so should be every so slightly stronger.

I agree it can be a bit confusing, so I will update the descriptions and clarify on the original LSS that there is a 2.0 version available. I didn't get rid of the old models because I don't like taking away choice from people. Sometimes an app or service gets a new 'upgrade' and I like the old one better and just wish I could use that if you know what I mean.

Anyway, you bring up some good points so I'll update the product descriptions and even mention the small gear expected life and link to a spare. BTW, on my 2019 Levo I'm still using the original LSS (haven't even bothered to update my bike to the 2.0) and I have over 1,000 km on it.

Cheers,

JD

 

[Tango.Oscar.Mike]

Sounds good! Thanks for coming back so quickly!
Looking forward getting the LSS! Will report back of course!

 

[MattyG]

Hi Guys ... I was an early adopter of the LSS on my 2019 Levo Expert and it's been going strong for many many months and no issues - huge thanks to jd_3d.

I also have a 2018 S-Works Levo with no speed limit due to a software hack/solution. We've ridden the two bikes side by side and even though the 2019 has the 38-40kph limit from the LSS it is still considerably faster than the 2018 S-Works with no limit. One reason is that it is very hard to sustain high cadence and deliver meaningful additional power through the pedals at high speeds. Another reason is the 2019 motor has more power than the 2018.

In my experience the LSS lets the 2019 Levo's operate at close to it's practical maximum speed. So even if there was a way to remove the limit completely you would rarely be going faster than the same bike with the LSS solition.

I think its a good idea to buy an additional set of parts as the shipping is expensive and takes a while to arrive, and the Levos are so much more fun to ride with the LSS mod. Good luck!

 

[Justride]

Hello , just got a 2020 levo and had and had already purchase the LSS for 2019 , but want the 2020 to get a large. To answer the question will it work the answer is yes but had to use some O-rings as the cover does not stay put because of the change to the spacer for 2020 ( wonder if this was intentional ha ha )
After install did about 100 Street miles with no problems ,
Although yesterday after my first trail ride on this thing I started to encounter the same problems as someone just mentioned , Low speed climbing engine cuts out and flashes with the red and blue lights . Discontinued for a while tried a few different things to no avail . Luckily I had the old parts with me and pulled off the LSS and no further problems on the ride , and yes I did more slow steep climbs .
Any thoughts ? I do hear there’s a problem with the power cords and some of the 19s but figured this should’ve been fixed for 2020?
Inquiry coincidence that as soon as I took off the LSS I had no more problems

 

[Justride]

Hi

After several months using this item, I'm thinking about other ways to unlimit because I have sometimes a ERROR 114 (or 144) and it STOPS my motor. Blinks two lines in red and blue and after five seconds aprox it starts again.

It always happens going up. mostly in rough slopes but also in soft hills. In Turbo, trail and Eco, with high and low cadence, always at low speed (between 4 and 9 km/h); what makes my think that the "brain" thinks that bikes is stopped and cuts help.

I've cleaned it several times, remonted and grease without any problem.
Some of the times it's been really dangerous...

Anyone with the same problem?
Any suggestion?

Hi , posted another at end , but I just got 2020 and added lss . Same issue first time I tried to climb in the dirt . Low speed issue. Removed lss and all good .?!

 

[jd_3d]

Hello , just got a 2020 levo and had and had already purchase the LSS for 2019 , but want the 2020 to get a large. To answer the question will it work the answer is yes but had to use some O-rings as the cover does not stay put because of the change to the spacer for 2020 ( wonder if this was intentional ha ha )
After install did about 100 Street miles with no problems ,
Although yesterday after my first trail ride on this thing I started to encounter the same problems as someone just mentioned , Low speed climbing engine cuts out and flashes with the red and blue lights . Discontinued for a while tried a few different things to no avail . Luckily I had the old parts with me and pulled off the LSS and no further problems on the ride , and yes I did more slow steep climbs .
Any thoughts ? I do hear there’s a problem with the power cords and some of the 19s but figured this should’ve been fixed for 2020?
Inquiry coincidence that as soon as I took off the LSS I had no more problems

Thanks @Justride for the info. I actually tried to duplicate this phenomenon by riding slowly in the lowest gear but was unable to. Maybe I need to find a steeper hill and try again, but I'm wondering if Specialized has perhaps updated their firmware and added additional checks? Like maybe they now have something in there that will error out if it thinks you are riding too slow? I'm not sure how else the LSS would cause it to throw an error only in slow speed uphill climbing.

 

[JAMh]

Thanks @Justride for the info. I actually tried to duplicate this phenomenon by riding slowly in the lowest gear but was unable to. Maybe I need to find a steeper hill and try again, but I'm wondering if Specialized has perhaps updated their firmware and added additional checks? Like maybe they now have something in there that will error out if it thinks you are riding too slow? I'm not sure how else the LSS would cause it to throw an error only in slow speed uphill climbing.

Finally I took it off and no more problems.
For sure the reason is the speed, as seeing the bike speed in the GPS it was 0.0 when it was stoping assitance. Maybe too much "radial length" in each LSS return compare to original. Is it double?

It would be great to have another version with less desmultiplication. If you consider it, I can help you. I have a lot of experience in mechanical design and 3D printing, but will be stupid to start from zero.
Do you agree?

 

[jd_3d]

Finally I took it off and no more problems.
For sure the reason is the speed, as seeing the bike speed in the GPS it was 0.0 when it was stoping assitance. Maybe too much "radial length" in each LSS return compare to original. Is it double?

It would be great to have another version with less desmultiplication. If you consider it, I can help you. I have a lot of experience in mechanical design and 3D printing, but will be stupid to start from zero.
Do you agree?

Thanks @JAMh for the additional info. What I find strange is there are over 50 people with the LSS and we've been using it for 10 months and no one has had this issue (at least that I'm aware of), but suddenly 2 people have the exact same issue, so I'm wondering if Specialized changed something in the Firmware. Do you know if your bike is running a newer version of the firmware, or when was your bike last in the shop? The other bike that had the issue was a 2020 model, so it is certainly using the latest firmware.

Regarding the LSS, it slows down the rotation of the magnet by a factor of only 1.5x, so it is already quite minimal. It gives a 50% speed increase currently. I'm not sure if people would want it if it only gave them 25% speed increase?

Another factor is the space is very small to fit the LSS so its difficult to significantly change the planet and ring gear radii without increasing the size of the LSS, but if you have some ideas please PM me. There's a good planetary ratio calculator here.

 

[JAMh]

Thanks @JAMh for the additional info. What I find strange is there are over 50 people with the LSS and we've been using it for 10 months and no one has had this issue (at least that I'm aware of), but suddenly 2 people have the exact same issue, so I'm wondering if Specialized changed something in the Firmware. Do you know if your bike is running a newer version of the firmware, or when was your bike last in the shop? The other bike that had the issue was a 2020 model, so it is certainly using the latest firmware.

Regarding the LSS, it slows down the rotation of the magnet by a factor of only 1.5x, so it is already quite minimal. It gives a 50% speed increase currently. I'm not sure if people would want it if it only gave them 25% speed increase?

Another factor is the space is very small to fit the LSS so its difficult to significantly change the planet and ring gear radii without increasing the size of the LSS, but if you have some ideas please PM me. There's a good planetary ratio calculator here.

I didn't update firmware since I bought TL at Nov2018.
I only update the App, but for me it started almost when I bough it. Talked about it some private groups and some friends told me they have the same problem but they solve it increasing cadence. I can solve it going up faster, but sometimes it is not possible.

Anyway, LSS is a very nice idea, but I need a special version. Will talk by PM.

Thanks

 

[Justride]

I didn't update firmware since I bought TL at Nov2018.
I only update the App, but for me it started almost when I bough it. Talked about it some private groups and some friends told me they have the same problem but they solve it increasing cadence. I can solve it going up faster, but sometimes it is not possible.

Anyway, LSS is a very nice idea, but I need a special version. Will talk by PM.

Thanks

Jamh,
What kind of magnet did you use ? I found one at work that fit but is has a hole in it , meant to have a screw through it . It was available so I tried it and it seemed fine until I did the slow climbing. Wondering i

 

[Justride]

 

[Justride]

2020 levo , ( difference in spacer?) and you can see my magnet , couldn’t be issue ?

 

[jd_3d]

2020 levo , ( difference in spacer?) and you can see my magnet , couldn’t be issue ?

Hi @Justride, thanks for the pictures. That magnet looks like it might be significantly weaker than a solid neodymium magnet. It's important to get a good quality magnet with high magnetic strength. Neodymium magnets range from a strength of N35 to N52. Normal 'fridge' magnets only have a strength of around N5.

Since it looks like you are in California, maybe I can send you a planet gear with magnet to see if it fixes your issue? I'll PM you.

 

[Quiui]

JD-3D
I got your system at the first of the year. I have a Carbon Comp Turbo with the system mounted on it. I had to make an inner ring to support the inner gear but all of it works just fine with one exception. I do not get a speed increase and am still limited to 16MPH. Everything rotates freely, I have the right magnet and everything looks good but it just doesn't change anything.

 

[jd_3d]

JD-3D
I got your system at the first of the year. I have a Carbon Comp Turbo with the system mounted on it. I had to make an inner ring to support the inner gear but all of it works just fine with one exception. I do not get a speed increase and am still limited to 16MPH. Everything rotates freely, I have the right magnet and everything looks good but it just doesn't change anything.

Hi @Quiui, for the LSS to work properly the center gear (sun gear) needs to stay stationary relative to the wheel that rotates. So it sounds like in your setup the sun gear may be loose, which is allowing it to spin. In this situation there would be no speed increase. So, check to make sure the sun gear is tight on the axle so that it doesn't rotate.

Also, it looks like you are in the USA, correct? US based bikes should have a speed limit of 20MPH when stock, so I'm not sure why yours is cutting out at 16MPH. Do you know why that is? Do you have a Europe spec bike?

 

[Quiui]

Hi @Quiui, for the LSS to work properly the center gear (sun gear) needs to stay stationary relative to the wheel that rotates. So it sounds like in your setup the sun gear may be loose, which is allowing it to spin. In this situation there would be no speed increase. So, check to make sure the sun gear is tight on the axle so that it doesn't rotate.

Also, it looks like you are in the USA, correct? US based bikes should have a speed limit of 20MPH when stock, so I'm not sure why yours is cutting out at 16MPH. Do you know why that is? Do you have a Europe spec bike?

Thanks for the reply.

I bought the bike last year in October here in Reno, NV. USA. At that time I did not know if E-Bikes were restricted, we regularly run down hill in the high 20 to low 30 mph range on the trails in our area. I will check with the selling shop. I will also check on the gear movement although it seems to be working as you stated. I also ordered a second set for when my original one wears out, although at this rate it might not. Thanks for you assistance.