I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase

[jd_3d]

Thanks for your reply @jd_3d , just to double-check: The LSS DT Version 2.0 - Planetary Gear Set includes the sun gear and cover for the DT wheelset, right?

Yes, if you want to get the latest and greatest v2.0 version, the LSS DT Version 2.0 - Planetary Gear Set is a full kit that has all the parts

Edit: @Luis MH, to clarify the LSS DT Version 2.0 has all the parts and the sun gear and cover are for the DT wheelset.

 

[Spitfire]

@jd_3d I'm using the LSS DT 2.0 on a Levo Expert. It works flawlessly and makes a huge difference for me. However, I do find it strange that you didn't choose a less restrictive ratio; I'm in the UK and still limited to 22mph. Are you aware that someone's planning on releasing a similar device that triples the top speed? Would you consider offering an upgrade that does the same?

 

[jd_3d]

@jd_3d I'm using the LSS DT 2.0 on a Levo Expert. It works flawlessly and makes a huge difference for me. However, I do find it strange that you didn't choose a less restrictive ratio; I'm in the UK and still limited to 22mph. Are you aware that someone's planning on releasing a similar device that triples the top speed? Would you consider offering an upgrade that does the same?

Hi @Spitfire, I'm glad the LSS DT 2.0 is working great for you. It's interesting, but I think you are the first person to want more speed increase than what the LSS provides. In the EU for 25kph bikes, the LSS should increase the speed to approximately 23.6mph (a little bit more than the 22mph you mentioned).

I thought long and hard about the best way to create a gear system that would fit in the incredibly small room between the rotor and frame, and it just so happens a planetary gear system reduces the speed by the 1.5x factor. There is no easy way to change it to triple the speed (without adding the complexity of more gears and then it may no longer fit). So it was not a choice of me trying to make it restrictive, but rather that's how the gear ratios naturally work for a planetary gear setup.

I have a US spec bike and the LSS increases the speed to ~30mph, yet I rarely find myself riding above 23-24mph. That seems to be the sweet spot in terms of pedaling cadence and motor power.

 

[Spitfire]

Hi @Spitfire, I'm glad the LSS DT 2.0 is working great for you. It's interesting, but I think you are the first person to want more speed increase than what the LSS provides. In the EU for 25kph bikes, the LSS should increase the speed to approximately 23.6mph (a little bit more than the 22mph you mentioned).

I thought long and hard about the best way to create a gear system that would fit in the incredibly small room between the rotor and frame, and it just so happens a planetary gear system reduces the speed by the 1.5x factor. There is no easy way to change it to triple the speed (without adding the complexity of more gears and then it may no longer fit). So it was not a choice of me trying to make it restrictive, but rather that's how the gear ratios naturally work for a planetary gear setup.

I have a US spec bike and the LSS increases the speed to ~30mph, yet I rarely find myself riding above 23-24mph. That seems to be the sweet spot in terms of pedaling cadence and motor power.

@jd_3d Thanks for the info. I thought you chose 1:1.5 arbitrarily, rather than due to mechanical constraints.

Anyway, I have to say that the LSS is an amazing add-on and a must-buy for anyone with a Levo. It really does make a huge difference.

 

[Nasty Nick]

With the LSS on my Shimano bike I don’t think the motor could power beyond 30 mph at the cadence 34 tooth chainrings generate. Maybe I’m wrong, but at the very least you’d need a good down slope on a pedally section.

 

[jd_3d]

Hi All. Just wanted to put a quick note here that I'll be on vacation from today until July 19th. I may not have access to the internet so my replies to any questions regarding the LSS may be delayed. I usually try to be very responsive so I just didn't want anyone thinking I dissapeared. Cheers.

 

[Junemi]

Hi All, I have been following this thread with great interest and was very impressed with jd’s innovative device. I purchased 2 off and had them sent to South Africa. Thankfully Shapeways couriered them so I received them in a week. SA Post Fitted the device this morning. The fit is perfect, simple installation. I have always been a fan of bolt-on mods. So Kudos to jd for simple and very effective device !

 

[Matt71]

without reading all of the above . will this work with a 2019 levo expert with saint rotors ?

 

[silverstone]

without reading all of the above . will this work with a 2019 levo expert with saint rotors ?

It only works with the stock brakes... calipers doesnt matter, but the disk does.

 

[K1W101]

Hi, I've got a 2018 Levo Expert Carbon at the moment and done the adjustment on app to increase speed which is excellent. I'm buying a 2019 Levo SWorks which, by the look of this forum, definitely can't have the same simply adjustment to get rid of the limiter? Can we buy JD's device and have it shipped to NZ?

 

[jd_3d]

Hi, I've got a 2018 Levo Expert Carbon at the moment and done the adjustment on app to increase speed which is excellent. I'm buying a 2019 Levo SWorks which, by the look of this forum, definitely can't have the same simply adjustment to get rid of the limiter? Can we buy JD's device and have it shipped to NZ?

Hi @K1W101,

Yes, you sure can. I recommend getting the 2.0 version for the SWorks:

LSS DT Version 2.0 - Planetary Gear Set by JD_3D on Shapeways

 

[brandolph]

Just ordered one of these for my 2019 expert.
Am I right in thinking this will throw off the total mileage reading in Mission Control?
And to verify, the new Blevo update has some setting to compensate for the lss so Blevo reads accurately?
Thanks!

 

[Indigo]

Yes, speed and total mileage in Mission Control will read less than actual.
BLEvo now has a Speed Multiplier setting, set it to 1.5 for LSS.

 

[Cryptwalk]

There is a copy of this being sold on fb groups now. Just FYI jd.

 

[jsalas2]

There is a copy of this being sold on fb groups now. Just FYI jd.

Saw this, is it a copy PLANET3 - mechanical e-bike derestriction device

 

[jd_3d]

There is a copy of this being sold on fb groups now. Just FYI jd.

Thanks for letting me know. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised as some of you even warned me to patent it way back when I first invented it. I really hope people will continue to buy my original and support me as I've supported all of you here

The copy one is not identical and has, in my opinion, multiple issues including potential safety issues.

 

[Nasty Nick]

The 3:1 ratio seems unnecessary. I never get to the cut off with LSS on my us spec decoy. I really like the LSS. Just an FYI it quieted down after the first ride. I added graphite powder per your recommendation and now it’s silent. The cover is awesome for keeping the graphite in and dirt out.

 

[Highflyer]

Thanks for letting me know. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised as some of you even warned me to patent it way back when I first invented it. I really hope people will continue to buy my original and support me as I've supported all of you here

The copy one is not identical and has, in my opinion, multiple issues including potential safety issues.

Ordered mine yesterday.

 

[SleepyWill]

"PLANET3 is an easily installed and reversible way to derestrict your e-bike. It uses a purely mechanical design utilizing a patent pending "

Let's hope they applied for that patent before this thread was started, otherwise they've thrown a lot of money down the toilet!

Not impressed that it appears to bolt onto the bike, even to my inexpert eye, it seems to have some severe design flaws.

You'll always have my support. Hurry up and dry glue!

 

[R120]

Looks like those guys have totally ripped off the idea, and not very well from the looks of things - I almost feel like sending them an email!

 

[TMS]

Sure it's more complex because it triples the speed. Can you two above explain those design issues?

But don't get me wrong. I'm not supporting either of these speed hack solutions. Sure I like to have more assisted speed to my Levo but I do not have the courage because warranty.

 

[SleepyWill]

Can you two above explain those design issues?

I mean, the really striking one to me is that it's using the bolts of your rotor to keep it on, and therefore actually mucking about with your brakes, but worst than that, has only cutout's for three bolts, so not only do you seem to have to halve the number of bolts holding your rotor on, but the three you do have left are interfered with. To achieve this, it's a double ply system, metal with plastic bonded onto the top. My question is, what's that metal going to rub against, and will it wear that instead of becoming worn itself.

Sure it's more complex because it triples the speed.

Nope, it seems to only be more complex to support the cut-outs so you can see the magnet going around, it's superfluous complication of separating the sun, moon and ?? Asteroid belt ?? teeth onto three separate components. And for why? Seemingly for bling factor. Then you get the problem of dirt and dust ingress into those windows, grinding down those plastic teeth a lot quicker than a fully covered design. I did wonder if the windows were only for a demonstration unit, but then why have the sun bonded to the back plate?

because it triples the speed

Er, yes, that... You understand that:

1) The moon cog has to be a certain size and distance from the hub to match the base one
2) The number of teeth on the cogs dictate the gear ratio
3) Both gear ratios must match, between the Sun and moon and moon and ??asteroid belt?? cogs

Well... it's hard to tell, but they seem out. To get the triple speed markup (and it's not anyway, that's completely false advertising) they couldn't fudge anything about the moon cog or the distance between the sun and asteroid cog without borking it, so it looks like they've fudged the ratio's instead.

I don't know what happens with a planetary cog system if the ratios don't match, but I assume that the very best you can hope for is a dramatic wear rate, and the worst is that 90 euros worth of teeth are sheared off within a mile or two.

Maybe it's fine though, and I'm barking completely up the wrong tree, maybe they thought of this idea completely independently and don't even know about this one.

Caveat: I am not any kind of engineer, I don't know what I am talking about and am expecting to be corrected on most of my points, but that's what my laymans first look at it made me think.

 

[TMS]

Thank you for your reply. I understand your points.

You did notice that in planet3, the sun rotates with hub and not the ring? That affects the gear ratio. And I at least thought that those holes are just for the demo. And I also thought that rotor is bolted with six bolts but the sun is only bolted with three bolts.

Disclaimer, I am some kind of engineer but not mechanical.

Edit: I think too that planet3 is way more fragile and wear more rapidly than "the original" version.

 

[SleepyWill]

Yep I just came back for (yet another) edit to say that I had seen a new picture of it from the back, showing the dimples for the bolts, so it doesn't remove any bolts from your brake disk, that being said however, it still interferes with three of your bolts, and I don't know, it just seems totally unnecessary to have it anywhere near those kinds of forces anyway. What advantage does it bring? I can't think of any.

In terms of the maths, I don't know, maybe you can show me, but just by looking at it I still don't see it, surely to go that much slower around than the wheel is rotating, it would need much finer teeth than that? Obviously, all the designer needs do is post a video and prove it works as he claims... he's built a demonstrator, but why no actual demonstration before taking money for the product? I wouldn't have purchased the one in this thread without seeing the video posted, literally showing it working and hearing the talk about how it was designed and seeing people test the thing and report back.

 

[TMS]

Yes, the math. Gear ratios can be calculated. No need to see it although that's why the demo is made. Those are two different solutions. That's why you can have two different gear ratios with same teeth counts.

 

[SleepyWill]

No need to see it

As a (proven) customer to this product, I disagree. Perhaps the designer of this one needs to have a long hard think about why I wrote them off as untrustworthy from how they've (not) presented their product, and relying on people doing complex maths when all the photo's they've released are not giving enough information for anyone to actually do it.

If I were in a conversation with them right now, I would urge them to show a video of it working and release the information on how they've tested it. Plenty of room for two competing products, and I'll take back my criticism in a heartbeat if refuted!

 

[TMS]

Competition is always good for consumers.

R = ring teeth count
S = sun teeth count
P = planet teeth count
x1 = gear ratio when the sun on the rotor
x2 = gear ratio when the ring on the rotor

R = S+2P (actually we don't need P)

x1 = 1 + R/S
x2 = 1 + S/R

If R = 50 and S = 26, then
x1 = 2,92
x2 = 1,52

If I'm wrong I dont't mind. Just correct my reply then.

 

[Brendog78]

I agree that if using original rotor bolts that it wouldn't hold the disc on as securely. If they supply step shank bolts or metal spacing sleeves that go through the plastic you can both secure the planetary gear set and maintain correct torque on the break disk.

Either way sucks they ripped off a great idea.

 

[jd_3d]

Yes, as @TMS showed you can get a 3-1 gear ratio by reversing which part is bolted to the rotor. Since some of you asked here are a few of the issues I see with the 'copy' product:

1) 3 rotor bolts used to attach one of the parts. May not be able to achieve proper torque on those bolts and they may loosen due to plastic creep. Also makes it harder to remove.

2) The 3-1 ratio may make the walk assist no longer work or work very poorly

3) The 3-1 ratio has worse warranty implications because the number of battery charges to mileage ratio is going to be significantly out of a reasonable range.

 

[ccrdave]

personally, I do like the way its bolted to the disc, I don't see weakness there, the downhill boys only run four bolts on their discs they dont fall off but they do check them.
locktight the bolts and they wont move. And its easy to fit to any disc.

I dont understand the difference between the sun gear being attached to the back plate or sitting "loose" on the end cap, can somebody explain?
I dont condone copy cat rip-offs, I have had it done to some of my designs and it sucks