Focus Jam2 LTD Charging problem

[steve_sordy]

@Gasser Just tried it, didn't work for me.

 

[steve_sordy]

The bike has been indoors for about 90 mins and I have just started charging it!

It is definitely temperature related. Whether it is the temperature that affects the current sensed by the charger circuit or just the temperature and nothing else, I have no idea.

Don't forget that I had the exact same problem and cure (warmth) with the TEC pack! Same problem with two different batteries and two different chargers.

Whatever it is, the battery and/or charger is definitely not fit for purpose!

 

[highpeakrider]

So nothing charged till it had been in the house a period of time?
And that applies to both bike and TEC pack.
Or did it charge instantly?

Always the same socket in the garage or have you got multiple?

Only issue is if you take it back they may test it in a warm shop and say can’t find anything.

 

[steve_sordy]

So nothing charged till it had been in the house a period of time?
And that applies to both bike and TEC pack.
Or did it charge instantly?

Always the same socket in the garage or have you got multiple?

Only issue is if you take it back they may test it in a warm shop and say can’t find anything.

Correct!. When the batteries were low they would not charge until they were warm.
After I had brought them into the house and let them warm up to room temp, they charged without problem.
With either battery if they were not close to being discharged (3 bars for ex) they would charge even at 4degC.

I only have one socket in the garage, but it powers other stuff without a problem, and it has charged both batteries when they were not close to being discharged. I have used two different socket in the house without problem. I can see why you ask the question, but I doubt it is the garage socket.

The first time failure to charge happened, it was the frame battery and to isolate whether it was the battery or the charger I took the bike on the tow-bar rack to a local LBS and used their charger. So the bike was at the outside temp (6- 8degC), the battery was fully discharged, and yet it charged without problem! However, that charger was an earlier model that charges at 4A, whereas both mine are 4.5A. I have no idea if that is relevant, although it is a difference.

This suggests to me that it may be a fault with the latest battery chargers, but one that only manifests itself at low states of charge (zero to 2 bars) when the temperature is low (below 11degC).

 

[highpeakrider]

Would be interesting to swap with mine which has a different model number and I charge mine in a cold high peak garage at near zero in the depth of winter

 

[highpeakrider]

So having had a beer, logic says its the charger that has a temp cut off.
Leave bike in cold garage with partial charge, if cold does it charge?
Leave TEC pack with same charge in house warm in house does it charge,
If yes must be the version of charger.
If it stays cold we may be close enough to swap charger versions while its still cold enough to prove.

Unless JE James (Also supplied my bike) can give you my version of charger....

 

[steve_sordy]

So having had a beer, logic says its the charger that has a temp cut off.
Leave bike in cold garage with partial charge, if cold does it charge?
Leave TEC pack with same charge in house warm in house does it charge,
If yes must be the version of charger.
If it stays cold we may be close enough to swap charger versions while its still cold enough to prove.

Unless JE James (Also supplied my bike) can give you my version of charger....

I agree with what you have posted.
I'm out tomorrow (Sunday) and I will do my best to discharge the frame battery. I'l be taking the bike to JE James in Sheffield anyway for its first free service, so with luck the charger won't charge the battery and they can see for themselves!

 

[Peaky Rider]

Just come back from a very muddy ride and hosed (very carefully) the bike down.
Ambient temperature of 10 deg, battery down to red cell.
For the first time since the near freezing temperatures of January, the battery will not take a charge.
Guessing the current model of bike and charger that SS and myself have, may have more sensitive safety cut-outs and the battery just didn't like a cold shower.

 

[highpeakrider]

Think the three of us a close enough to try my 2018 version charger, neither bike, TEC pack are affected by cold weather.

 

[Peaky Rider]

After an hour in the warm my bike battery took a charge without any problem so I'm satisfied that either the charger or the BMS is being particularly protective of the battery cells when temperatures fall.

This problem has made me conclude that when the time comes to buy another bike, I will certainly be looking for one where the battery is simply and easily removed.

 

[highpeakrider]

I think we will see more integration as battery technology gets better.

The real question is do you have a fault or is this design intent by Focus?

In reality in the U.K. you must be using the bike within the quoted specification, and I don’t have any of these issues.

 

[Peaky Rider]

The real question is do you have a fault or is this design intent by Focus?
.

That IS the question.

I have found nothing that sheds any light on the matter in the manual so I might e-mail Focus and ask them.

 

[steve_sordy]

...............

The real question is do you have a fault or is this design intent by Focus?

................

The operating spec is 0degC to 40degC. I could not charge the battery at 11degC. That temp is not at all severe, it will cover anywhere from September through to March in the UK. and a wider range in Germany I expect. This cannot be a normal problem. I am convinced that there is a batch issue on either the charger, the BMS, or the battery. I incline away from the battery because the TEC pack also suffered. I also incline away (but a bit less) from the charger because I have tried two different ones. That leaves the BMS. But to be honest, I don't really know.

PS: Today the start button had no effect. There was me in the car park, about to lead a guided ride of seven people and my bike wouldn't fire up! Fortunately there is a bike shop with an emtb qualified service guy there. He just pressed the on button for ten seconds and it came on! (YEY!). He called it a hard reset. Anyone heard of that before?

 

[Andy A]

The operating spec is 0degC to 40degC. I could not charge the battery at 11degC. That temp is not at all severe, it will cover anywhere from September through to March in the UK. and a wider range in Germany I expect. This cannot be a normal problem. I am convinced that there is a batch issue on either the charger, the BMS, or the battery. I incline away from the battery because the TEC pack also suffered. I also incline away (but a bit less) from the charger because I have tried two different ones. That leaves the BMS. But to be honest, I don't really know.

PS: Today the start button had no effect. There was me in the car park, about to lead a guided ride of seven people and my bike wouldn't fire up! Fortunately there is a bike shop with an emtb qualified service guy there. He just pressed the on button for ten seconds and it came on! (YEY!). He called it a hard reset. Anyone heard of that before?

Yes my dealer told me about it I always press mine and hold it for a few seconds until it starts up

 

[steve_sordy]

Yes my dealer told me about it I always press mine and hold it for a few seconds until it starts up

The manual says 3 secs, press twice if the bike has not been used for a while. That didn't work, nor did longer presses; I just didn't press for ten secs before giving up. My patience would have been greater, but I was up against the clock with six riders waiting for me to meet them three mins ago!

 

[BigFoot]

I should receive on Monday two new chargers and two tec batteries.
I will start testing later in the week.
But it sounds like with the current set up, if the battery goes below 25%, It will have to be charged in the house but we’ll see ?

 

[Peaky Rider]

Love the logo on the chainstay which says "Engineered in Germany".
Maybe on the other chainstay it should say "With questionable Chinese components"

 

[BigFoot]

Love the logo on the chainstay which says "Engineered in Germany".
Maybe on the other chainstay it should say "With questionable Chinese components"

LOL
I sent focus Europe and focus USA email about three or four weeks ago a link to this forum and I got no reply from either One of them .
It would be nice if someone could get one of their engineers to read all these posts so we can get to the bottom of this .

 

[Andy A]

LOL
I sent focus Europe and focus USA email about three or four weeks ago a link to this forum and I got no reply from either One of them .
It would be nice if someone could get one of their engineers to read all these posts so we can get to the bottom of this .

Having only just bought this bike it would be very reassuring if some engineer from Focus could at least comment on these problems as I thought I had bought a quality German product and that had a lot to do with me buying one!

I wonder where the batteries for other makes such as Specialized/Canyon/Haibike etc are made are they possibly from China as well?

 

[Peaky Rider]

LOL
I sent focus Europe and focus USA email about three or four weeks ago a link to this forum and I got no reply from either One of them .

After a month with my Jam I found I was carrying the bulky, 2.2 kilo TEC battery around with me and using little more than one cell on it to complete my normal 25 mile rides.

I emailed Focus in Germany explaining this to them asking if they had any plans to bring out a half size TEC battery as one of these would be perfect for my requirements.

I received a reply very quickly saying that they were not, but were actually looking at a bigger battery (read into that what you will), but at least they do sometimes reply.

PS Does anyone know why Focus pulled out of the US?

 

[steve_sordy]

I didn't manage to run the frame battery into the red on Sunday, so after I'd cleaned and lubed it, I ran it around the village for a few miles in boost until I got one red bar.

Today, I took the bike into JE James Sheffield for its first free service and to get the charging problem sorted once and for all. The first thing I did when I got there was to ask the workshop team to try to charge the bike with the charger I had brought with me (the replacement one). Fingers crossed......and........ yes! It wouldn't charge! (Yey! ). So at least they had experienced it for themselves. I told them that if they left it to warm up it would charge eventually. They have hung on to the bike for several days to do the diagnostic checks, discuss with Focus etc. I told them that it wasn't just me and I mentioned the EMTB forum; I even provided a link address to this thread.

Then they had a go at me for trying to charge the bike when it was cold! Their view of what "0degC to 40degC operating temperature" meant was different to mine. I replied that their view was nowhere mentioned before I bought the bike, and not in the manuals either. If their view was to hold, that would mean that I could not charge the battery at temperatures of 11degC or below (the highest temp of a failure for me). I could feel myself starting to get very cross when they said it would be better to wait for the diagnostic checks. I stalked out and went across the road to the sales building.

After my story about the 4A charger working when the 4.5A would not, the sales guy went and found a 4A charger and put it on one side. But sadly, this was too late to test it on the now warmed up bike! But the implication was that this would be my charger when I eventually collected my bike. They told me that they would get to the bottom of this. I would have felt reassured about that, if the workshop team across the road had not tried to blame me for trying to charge a cold bike in the first place!

 

[highpeakrider]

That’s balls as mine charges from cold all the time, we are using different stores as mine came from Chesterfield.

If they don’t prove it and the weather stays cold we can swap charges and TEC packs.

 

[steve_sordy]

That’s balls as mine charges from cold all the time, we are using different stores as mine came from Chesterfield.

If they don’t prove it and the weather stays cold we can swap charges and TEC packs.

I believe that we have already established that your battery is a 4.0 amp charger. Mine and those of others with this problem all have 4.5 amp chargers. I suspect that Focus will come to accept this before too long.

 

[Andy A]

Hi Steve my charger says on the back 4.5 output is that bad! I haven't had a problem with it yet but I haven't charged it much yet!

 

[steve_sordy]

Hi Steve my charger says on the back 4.5 output is that bad! I haven't had a problem with it yet but I haven't charged it much yet!

It might be. It depends upon whether the basic design of the 4.5A charger is wrong, or whether it is a batch problem. Or even whether it is the charger that is the problem. Having had a lot of time to think about this, I am becoming convinced it is the charger. It is not the BMS (two separate types of battery: one in the frame, and the TEC pack). Nor is it the batteries, because they do charge when a 4A charger is used or when the temperature is higher.

Make the most of the current cold weather, run the battery right down, either one, it doesn't matter. Then try charging. If it charges then you are OK and it may be that the charger is a batch problem, or you are falsely reassured because the temperature isn't cold enough.

 

[highpeakrider]

It might be. It depends upon whether the basic design of the 4.5A charger is wrong, or whether it is a batch problem. Or even whether it is the charger that is the problem. Having had a lot of time to think about this, I am becoming convinced it is the charger. It is not the BMS (two separate types of battery: one in the frame, and the TEC pack). Nor is it the batteries, because they do charge when a 4A charger is used or when the temperature is higher.

Make the most of the current cold weather, run the battery right down, either one, it doesn't matter. Then try charging. If it charges then you are OK and it may be that the charger is a batch problem, or you are falsely reassured because the temperature isn't cold enough.

Also the charger you guys have is 100V - 240V whereas mine issue free is just 240V

 

[steve_sordy]

Also the charger you guys have is 100V - 240V whereas mine issue free is just 240V

Well, that is another notable difference, but as with the charging current, I have no idea whether it is significant. To be honest, I doubt whether those differences are the cause of the problem. The cause is probably something else, it's just that the differences are easy to identify.

 

[BigFoot]

Well, that is another notable difference, but as with the charging current, I have no idea whether it is significant. To be honest, I doubt whether those differences are the cause of the problem. The cause is probably something else, it's just that the differences are easy to identify.

Steve it’s not the bike, my original charger and both your original and your replacement chargers are defective .

I just carried out the following charging test at 0°C I only have 120 V coming out of my wall socket in the United States so I don’t think it’s whether you’re in Europe or the US makes no difference .
My original charger which is pictured below charges OK at 35% battery 0°C
but it consistently will not charge at 18% battery or 2% battery .

 

[BigFoot]

My two replacement chargers ,charge perfectly at a 35% battery at 18% battery and a 2% battery all at 0°C outside temperature .
Please compare serial numbers .
I would have focus or the dealer get you two or three new chargers or open up some brand new bikes out of the box take their chargers and I’m sure you’ll find one of them that will work at 0°C
Pictured below is a watt meter which I monitor the charging current coming out of the wall socket it generally pulls 175 W when the charger is charging properly .

If you look closely you can see it pulling 176watts
I would have the manager or owner of your bike shop read my posts on this thread I’ve done the tests properly and there seems like there’s some chargers out there that don’t work .

A mountain bike should charge inside or outside it shouldn’t matter what the temperature is you’re not going to bring a muddy bike inside and warm it up just to charge it that doesn’t make sense .

Let me know if you find a working charger ?

 

[Andy A]

I totally agree with you it isn't the bike it's the charger, I have only just got mine and charged the bike once and the tec pack once and it charged fine my serial number is different to yours though 1826 1673 no idea if that makes a difference but so far so good and as for not charging when it's colder hmmmm mine charges fine in a cold garage at home.