Derestricting bosch smart system

[manu.w]

… , Bosch and the others

 

[Mad_Angler1]

Can’t say it, but they are able to do whatever they want, we don’t OWN the motor, we just have a licence to use it, even thought we bought it

Oh I know this and I am a massive advocate of right to repair and contribute to heling making things better in the other places im in. Right now the boxes are a sticky plaster and really there needs to be some proper hacking done on the SW but that needs some good people to start to take an interest.

However for now im looking at what is the best option today

 

[Chromedomey]

Yeah, surprised the motors haven’t been hacked by those in the know with such things.

 

[SEBA]

eplus ebike seems to have matured their deristricting solution

 

[SEBA]

anyone noticed the 2 mandatory measurement ?!

 

[manu.w]

The “sensor” is a reed switch, and if the small magnet is put at the exterior of the wheel, the speed is too fast passing the reed switch…?

 

[megabobra]

The “sensor” is a reed switch, and if the small magnet is put at the exterior of the wheel, the speed is too fast passing the reed switch…?

I thought it could be that passing magnet on the wheel might interfere with the true rim magnet pickup within the motor housing.

 

[TPostma3]

Any long term reviews on the speedbox? Is it reliable? Does the bosch motor detect it often?

 

[Embt]

Update on My ride I've done 1000 miles with no error.

I've had my bike 13 months and 3kmiles in total
I mostly use it 17.4mph And 19.4mph depends on wind. Feels great

i always crank it up to 24mph on My last mile

 

[Mad_Angler1]

Has anyone torn down any of the current solutions for bosch and had a look at what they are doing ? I'd like to think they are replicating and replacing the singnal form the Hall sensor to the MCU and not just delaying it.

I'm intrigued at how accurate they are replicating the output. It should be fairly simple to do a full man in the middle replacement with decent micro controller.

Tbh I am really frustrated at how much work bosch is putting in to preventing frankly anything let alone derestriction.
This has all got me thinking and really we need some proper effort into SW hacks for the bosch as mod boxed are never the ideal solution.

Something else that also hit me was I wonder if magnet mod would work in the sense if the magnet was longer the pickup duration would be longer and that would replacicate a slower speed. What I'm not sure of is if Bosch are pickup up the rise, peek or fall of the change or are actilaly looking for a specific waveform.

Really could go with getting it on the Ocyloscope and see what's going on.

 

[Mad_Angler1]

Ok I'm leaning on either the Bikespeed RS or the Speedfun.

Seems to be very little info on either of these out there.

 

[Evanon]

Ok I'm leaning on either the Bikespeed RS or the Speedfun.

Seems to be very little info on either of these out there.

From my understanding bikespeed is better because it has lower max speed and that should prevent detection/errors even if you dont drive full speed.

 

[Jackware]

The issue with the RS-Bikespeed chip is that it doesn't work with the Purion 200 or Kiox displays as per their website and an email from them earlier this year;

Hello,
Thank you for your interest in our products. There is no tuning planned from us at the moment for bikes with your display.
best regards
Andreas Karl
bikespeed GmbH

 

[Evanon]

The issue with the RS-Bikespeed chip is that it doesn't work with the Purion 200 or Kiox displays as per their website and an email from them earlier this year;

Hello,
Thank you for your interest in our products. There is no tuning planned from us at the moment for bikes with your display.
best regards
Andreas Karl
bikespeed GmbH

The tunning works, just display dosent work, or works incorrectly.

 

[Jackware]

The tunning works, just display dosent work, or works incorrectly.

Yep, that's what I just posted, thanks for confirming...

 

[Mad_Angler1]

Tbh I'm ok with that.

Is there any power off delays needed with the Bikespeed ?

 

[Evanon]

2 bad that i have to lose warranty for the bike i bought 7 days ago and paid 7K..

 

[Mad_Angler1]

2 bad that i have to lose warranty for the bike i bought 7 days ago and paid 7K..

Loosing the warranty is debatable. What they don't know does not affect them. So a mod that does not cause issues won't affect anything.

Also under most countries they would have to prove the modification caused the failure you have but you would have to absolutely fight it.

Sadly in all of this I'm starting to build up a real distain for Bosch and while DJI is FAR from perfect I still hope they rattle the cages of the industry.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Also under most countries they would have to prove the modification caused the failure you have but you would have to absolutely fight it.

I don't believe this is the case, any manipulation modification will void your warranty regardless of whether it is the root cause of an issue.
Good luck fighting anything if they find out, which they can easily do if it's the Bosch smart system.

It's simple, if you want the best chance of keeping your warranty, don't modify your bike.

 

[Embt]

I don't believe this is the case, any manipulation modification will void your warranty regardless of whether it is the root cause of an issue.
Good luck fighting anything if they find out, which they can easily do if it's the Bosch smart system.

It's simple, if you want the best chance of keeping your warranty, don't modify your bike.

Ye I risked My warranty 8months in And I de restricted it 15.5 mph is boring.

Changing the speeds from 15.5 to 28mph is ideal.

Did 17.4 mph in the wind today then 20 on the way back.

18.6 mph is the optimal for speed and enjoyment on My bike.

But Bosch is very well made apparently

 

[Mad_Angler1]

I don't believe this is the case, any manipulation modification will void your warranty regardless of whether it is the root cause of an issue.
Good luck fighting anything if they find out, which they can easily do if it's the Bosch smart system.

It's simple, if you want the best chance of keeping your warranty, don't modify your bike.

There are pretty laws on this around cars as they used to love to pull this stunt but manufactures don't get to bully people into doing what they want especially in the UK and EU.

Again I'm not saying it's not going to be a fight but a motor failure due to water ingress can not be blamed on a derestriction.

IV spent my life in working around issues like this and dealing with this very thing. They can threat, they can shout and scream however they also have to prove it directly contributed to the failure.

And again where there is no evidence a unit has been fitted it's not even an issue.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Again I'm not saying it's not going to be a fight but a motor failure due to water ingress can not be blamed on a derestriction.

Sure, it would be underhand for a company to try and blame a failed, water damaged motor on a manipulation device, but that's not the point I'm making.
By fitting a manipulation device, you have knowingly voided your warranty, so they are within their rights to reject a warranty claim regardless of the issue?

 

[manu.w]

Not only the warrenty! If they think you (their software) manipulated the speed , they decide (they already do it) to brick the motor you bought , ,making it unusable!!!
So you buy something you don’t really own

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

This is true, nearly every issue I've read with a manipulation device failing has caused the smart system to go into limp mode or a 500 series error, which you need a certified Bosch dealer with updated software to remove.

Any certified dealer could (if they wanted to) easily see if a manipulation device was used from the copious amounts of data the smart system logs on every ride, regardless of wether you've removed the device before taking it in.

There goes your warranty, and if the dealer really wanted to be difficult they could refuse to clear the error leaving your motor bricked.
So now you're left with a 5 grand paper weight as only the Bosch software can clear the error.

You might think of getting round it by buying a new motor online, but that new motor needs to be paired to the rest of the system by, you guessed it a certified Bosch dealer with up to date software, who could refuse as their system shows your bikes warranty has been voided....

I'm not saying this is at all likely to happen, you'd have to be very unlucky, but under their t&c it could.

The right to repair legislation is a nonsense when the system can be locked behind Bosch's licenced software which they absolutely will not release to any other company.

 

[ScubaDrunk]

Hi everyone. Happy new year.

New member here with new eMTB in the United Kingdom.

I'm looking to derestrict my eMTB. Happy to keep the derestrict to a maximum speed of 25 Mph/40 Kph if that keeps me below the error codes potentially being activated.

Bike is a 2023 model that's been sat in the LBS since August 2023 by the looks of things.

Motor is a Bosch Gen 4 Performace Line CX Race edition with Rim Magnet sensor.

Just checked my firmware on my new eMTB. Looks like it hasnt been updated (not sure if this is good or bad).

My questions are as follows:

1. Should I update the firmware if im going to derestrict OR leave firmware on the current version as per the attached pic?

2. What are the PROs of updating the firmware from current version to latest version?

3. What are the CONs of updating the firmware from the current version to latest version?

4. Which derestrict is the safest bet to go for at the moment considering the type of motor and speed sensor I have (Happy to keep the derestrict to a maximum speed of 25 Mph/40 Kph if that keeps me below the error codes potentially being activated.)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[manu.w]

Hi everyone. Happy new year.

New member here with new eMTB in the United Kingdom.

I'm looking to derestrict my eMTB. Happy to keep the derestrict to a maximum speed of 25 Mph or 40 Kph if that keeps me below the error codes potentially being activated.

Bike is a 2023 model that's been sat in the LBS since August 2023 by the looks of things.

Motor is a Bosch Gen 4 Performace Line CX Race edition with Rim Magnet sensor.

Just checked my firmware on my new eMTB. Looks like it hasnt been updated (not sure if this is good or bad).

View attachment 152799

My questions are as follows:

1. Should I update the firmware if im going to derestrict OR leave firmware on the current version as per the attached pic?

2. What are the PROs of updating the firmware from current version to latest version?

3. What are the CONs of updating the firmware from the current version to latest version?

4. Which derestrict is the safest bet to go for at the moment considering the type of motor and speed sensor I have (Happy to keep the derestrict to a maximum speed of 25 Mph or 40 Kph if that keeps me below the error codes potentially being activated.)?

Thanks in advance.

If you can, ask or find a dealer that is willing to activate the reed-switch sensor of the motor.

Being able to tune the riding modes is a plus, I don’t know at what version they implemented that?

 

[ScubaDrunk]

If you can, ask or find a dealer that is willing to activate the reed-switch sensor of the motor.

Being able to tune the riding modes is a plus, I don’t know at what version they implemented that?

Thanks for your reply

What exactly does the option you have mentioned above give me the ability to do?

I'm trying to get answers to the following questions, but if the option you have mentioned above ticks all the boxes to my questions, please could you explain how.

1. Should I update the firmware if im going to derestrict OR leave firmware on the current version as per the attached pic?

2. What are the PROs of updating the firmware from current version to latest version?

3. What are the CONs of updating the firmware from the current version to latest version?

4. Which derestrict is the safest bet to go for at the moment considering the type of motor and speed sensor I have (Happy to keep the derestrict to a maximum speed of 25 Mph/40 Kph if that keeps me below the error codes potentially being activated.)?

Many thanks in advance again for your help and support.