Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[Cigales]

@Cigales here is a shot of the torque tab I am using:
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There are some pretty major discrepancies from the tune you have posted it appears but I am not smart enough to determine if there is any answer to your problem all I know is that it works on my motor which puts out full power?


Edit: I had posted the wrong torque tab yesterday this is the correct one that I use.
As an experiment yesterday while I had the computer out I installed the last two tunes in the spreadsheet found here:
Bafang Ultra "Smooth" tune by Mike at Frey

Neither one worked well enough for me to abandon the one that I use. I had already tried the Smooth tune one and my Z1 came standard with the Luna tune. Also neither of which worked for me. Mostly to do with pedal feel relating to psi at single track pace and run on issues. I don't mind a little run on at higher speeds on the road because I can back off the pedals and let it make the shift for me but don't like it in the lower modes. I suppose I should also add the rest of my tabs, I apologize for the picture quality ones but I don't know how to make a screen capture in Windows.....

<image>
<image>
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Comparing yours to mine across the board we share little in common it seems? I don't know if the answer to your lack of power issue lies in there but I know for sure that this tune does work for me as well as my friend and his Z1. I especially like how the throttle acts within these parameters. When I got the bike with the LUna tune it would about buck you off during startup which is the only time I use it. It has a nice soft start now.

Also yes I do use a 52v battery most of the time but also have a 48v one too, both from DT with 21700 cells. Quite frankly I can run either without changing anything, even the option for 52v/48v on the display, and they both run the tune just fine. However I do like the 52v for it's hot off the charger higher voltage which gets me to the trailhead up the road faster......I also think the 52v has slightly better range but also it has been improving somewhat it seems with use and I don't use the 48v much? Not very scientific I know, sorry.

Thanks alot @Mabman posting these settings.
So after trying them, I still get the same low power issue. With your settings you feel some difference on the startup but the rest is still low power although it displays much more.

EDIT: I also tried calibrating the new and old controller 18 et 21 times with no result. The callibration software doesn't seem to work. Sometimes I feel I may have been scammed, I'm just f**king lost!

I've still got the second motor waiting for me. The seller (GreenBikeKit) is waiting for a response from me to send it out or not. I will ask him to send it and will see. If I still get the same results, then It may just be the battery.
Anyway, thanks to everyone that helped out.

 

[Mabman]

If it does turn out to be the battery then I'm sure that Herbert will stand by it. I still can't see how it would be if you are getting a good reading off the terminals?

I am having my own issues here where my motor cuts out completely and throws no error code within a mile or so of my place which is uphill. It will come back on if it sits for awhile like it is some kind of thermal cutout although the motor shouldn't be getting that warm and if I just do the shorter steeper hills in high modes that are right by my house it doesn't cut out....happens with both of my batteries btw that have never given me any grief to date.

Not sure if you have checked that electric bike review thread but there are a couple of guys on there that are really peeling back the onion on how to understand how best to set up an Ultra's tune.

 

[TeoElFeo]

I think there's one way you can make sure if it's the battery or not. You can remove the battery and plug the charger. From what I know the wiring is done in a way that the current from the charger will go to the motor directly. That won't create much torque, but definitely enough if you leave the wheel off the ground and hit throttle.

 

[CrownSeven]

Anyone know if you can use a derailleur that uses SRAM's UDH mounting system on the e22?

 

[ficorama]

does anyone know how heavy the e22 frame is? no lock, just the frame. thank you

 

[PerseverantOne]

Wow, I didn't know that.
Granted, this is the first frame I've used the Works Components headset on.

I'll bare that in mind when building up my Bafang M510 project bike

FLX WEAPON-X Released their new M610 1000watt 3.1lb Bafang Motor. Really nice bike for $5k.

 

[PerseverantOne]

Decided to pick up one of these frames sets after receiving many enquiries through Instagram, EMTB Forums, EBR, etc.

Hopefully, this thread will be of use to anyone who is considering buying/building up one.

FULL DISCLAIMER
It was through Carbon Cycles on Ebay which I picked one up for the purposes of testing and they gave me a considerable discount due to my interests as well as publications of the Bafang Ultra M620 motor.
Dengfu 29er Ebike Carbon Frame Suspension BAFANG M620 1000W 150mm Travel E22 | eBay
It is to that reason why I'll refrain from delving into price heavily as I recognise that I did get one cheaper than advertised.
In addition, I am aware of existing ebikes such as the,
View attachment 81836
Luna Z1 and
View attachment 81838
Watt Wagon Hydra.
I would still reccomend reading through this thread as what I'll be discussing will be applicable to yourselves.

View attachment 81840 l
So I received my frame on the 7th February 2022 after ordering it on the 4th January 2022. Carbon Cycle were eager to ensure that I received the frame as quickly as possible before the Chinese holiday.
I order the frame which includes rear axle, seatpost clamp, headset, mech hanger, bushings for mounting the shock, shock bolts, power button, charging port for charging the battery on the frame, battery mount, keys, battery frame cover and screws and bolts for securing various cables inside and along the non-drive side chainstay.
View attachment 81841
In addition, I also picked up one of the batteries which is a 48v17.5amp (850wh) along with a 3amp charger (I was of the belief it was sold with a 2amp charger so do with that information what you will).

It's at this point I will say, I did not buy the motor from them and I'll explain why in a short while

View attachment 81842
For the purposes of testing, I have simply recycled my Fox DPX2 which came stock on my Status 160 (That bike is now running a Fox x2
View attachment 81843 View attachment 81844
We'll come back to the Status 160 in a short while aswell.

The rear shock requirements for the Dengfu E22 are 230x60. My DPX2 is 230x62.5.
PLEASE NOTE, this frame cannot be over-stroked to provide more rear wheel travel further than 150mm.
View attachment 81847
Believe me, I have checked, double checked and even consulted a suspension expert who did the exact same test I did. THIS FRAME ONLY GIVES 150MM of rear wheel travel.
View attachment 81846
I'll still be using the DPX2 but hopefully that's answered any enquiries as to available rear wheel travel subject to the stroke length.

The frame was pre-built with only the headset to install and the rear axle and seatpost clamp to go on. Funnily enough, I received a spare mech hanger which was nice (but again, its unclear whether this comes standard).
Incidentally for anyone who wants to know what axle to buy aftermarket,
View attachment 81848
View attachment 81849

Truth be told, I was somewhat surprised that the frame came assembled as I am use to building ebike frames from scratch.
View attachment 81850 View attachment 81851
Nevertheless, it's at this point (especially to the Luna Z1 and Watt Wagon Hydra owners) where I say that I was shocked to find NO GREASE in the rocker link of the linkage area which secures the yoke made out of alloy where bearings are housed.
View attachment 81852
View attachment 81853
I'm not suggesting that this is a common trait. However, I would advise that you undo the linkage and check that grease has been used (AGAIN, in the rocker link which secures the yoke). On the plus side, blue loctite has been used on all 6mm and 5mm bolts around the frame hardware.

In addition, I have noticed an area where mud and grit could collect.
View attachment 81866
When I get around to putting frame protection on, I'll take further pictures to illustrate where the build could occur.

The headset seems.........ok. I'll opt to use the Works components headset for this build.
The size Large (the biggest frame) has a headtube length of 135mm according to my tape measure (not 130). Regardless, the Works components headset will fit.
View attachment 81854

2.0 Degree EC44-ZS56 Angle Headset - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube

Change your bikes geometry to suit you - with our World Cup proven angle headsets you can alter stock geometry, changing the way your bike rides and feels to better match your personal riding style. With years of experience manufacturing Angle Headsets, whether you are just starting out, or the...

www.workscomponents.co.uk

View attachment 81855
I guess this brings us nicely to cable management. On the face of the headtube are 6 ports (3 on either side) to internally thread rear brake, gear outer cable, dropper cable and wire loom for display. The wire loom (harness) has a dedicated port. Leaving 5 ports available depending on your preference of cable arrangement.
View attachment 81865

But please bare in mind that the dedicated port for the wire loom has been made to only allow 3 cables to ran through (ideally 2). This suggests that this particular frame has been built for the requirements of the CANBus protocol rather than the UART protocol.

REFER TO EBR for Canbus vs UART thread

2022 - Top 12 Bafang Ultra M620 Ebikes

What's the MSRP? ;) Lol. Ask me that once I've made more 😅

electricbikereview.com

Which I guess leads us nicely to the question,

Why didn't I buy the motor from Carbon Cycle?
Unfortunately, they couldn't give me confirmation as to which variant of the M620 motor would be supplied. For those who are unaware, their are (at the time of me writing this post), 10 variants of the M620 officially released from Bafang. If we were to add third party developers, custom mods by specific distributors and recognised mods from well known motor hackers, the list easily exceeds 25 variants to which I'm aware of.
Notwithstanding, you can buy the motor cheaper elsewhere and save up to a potential £150 (apologies if I seem UK biased but I suspect the same is true for those in Europe, America, Canada, Australia etc).
In addition, I'm somewhat convinced that the M620 motor supplied by Carbon Cycle would be a CANBus variant.
View attachment 81856
On the flip side, mounting the motor looks more easier compared to my previous alloy frames where you would need to tap the bolts in and out using a mallet.
View attachment 81857

As for the battery, I reserve judgement at this stage. However, I am somewhat perplexed as to why these new batteries weight near the same as an equivalent battery capacity Reention Darado battery. Baring in mind that whilst the Dorado battery is older, it is technically more sophisticated.
View attachment 81858
But like I said, I'll reserve judgement for now.
View attachment 81859

As to my reference concerning the Status 160, that bike does have an adjustable geometry flip chip located in the yoke itself. I'm currently liaising with someone to whether that same method of adjusting the geometry could be retrofitted to the Dengfu E22 frame. In addition (for the purposes of data), I'll be messing around with ofset bushes to simulate the geometry change between low, neutral and high. I'll keep you posted with my findings and any developments (especially if a particular position lends itself nicely to running either a 27.5, 29er or mullet).

Overall however, I am impressed. This frame (whilst it cant be over-stroked with its existing linkage), does show potential.
I'll keep you all posted as to the biggest dropper seatpost you can run slammed in the frame
View attachment 81867
Supposedly, a One Up 210 dropper can fit but I'll reserve judgement until I pick one up this Saturday.
View attachment 81868
May even treat myself to a Fidlock bottle cage as well.

I have the same 2 degree steerer tube in my E-10

 

[PerseverantOne]

Products such as E22 and E10 are still regionally restricted products and cannot be put on the shelves. If you need to purchase, just communicate with the sales staff directly. Look for dengfu stores, or baolijia stores; they are all dengfu direct stores.

If I am not too late look into the FLX WEAPON X newest 3.1lb Bafang engine with 1000watt peak 750watt Continuous,(Can be turned down or up) 51 offset I like 44 offset. But this bike is all Carbon and really really well spec'ed was under $5k. Now it runs $5500 but soon will go up even more. It is a killer bike, & If I hadn't already built my E-10v2, I'd be buying this and just changing the offset and front fork. This bike is really nice for the money. The Weapon X

 

[BojanZ]

Does anyone notice the bending of the rear triangle/rear forks when accelerating hard, at least when using higher powers? I have innotrace version set to cca 2200W when battery is full and when using higher assist levels or throttle on asphalt you do notice a bit of bending of the rear which does not give you a good feeling. I believe aluminum frame would be a better option for this motor or is there any other stronger rear triangle from Dengfu that could be used on E22?

I also saw that FREY beast has a carbon frame, but the rear is supposedly made of alu, probably just because it si more rigid..

 

[Dado]

Of course. Especially when you accelerate on hard gears. There is then also moment in axial direction. My old alu frame did bend like a bow. I can tell end of triangle went even 15mm to right and also felt it under the feet it is bending.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Just in case you didn't know, Bafang have unveiled the M630 motor
Thread 'Bafang M630 Thread' Bafang M630 Thread
And yes, it shares the same mounting position as the M620 motor

 

[Daxxie]

Does anyone notice the bending of the rear triangle/rear forks when accelerating hard, at least when using higher powers? I have innotrace version set to cca 2200W when battery is full and when using higher assist levels or throttle on asphalt you do notice a bit of bending of the rear which does not give you a good feeling. I believe aluminum frame would be a better option for this motor or is there any other stronger rear triangle from Dengfu that could be used on E22?

I also saw that FREY beast has a carbon frame, but the rear is supposedly made of alu, probably just because it si more rigid..

Much worse on a Fat E23 (chainring is more outward) with 3500W Innotrace.
It feels like the rear wheel wants to overtake me


My titanium Fatbike flexes even more.



My alu Seroxat bike 3500W Inno motor.
Tons of flex!




Put together this Exess carbon frame a couple of weeks ago with 3000W Innotrace
Zero flex! So it's all due to design I guess.

 

[Bengy22]

Much worse on a Fat E23 (chainring is more outward) with 3500W Innotrace.
It feels like the rear wheel wants to overtake me

Hey Daxxie when I originally saw this comment I instantly thought about your titanium bike with the phaserunner. I swear you had a video showing off the flex somewhere but I couldn't find it. I'm interested in how much flex the E55 has in comparison to the other frames

 

[Daxxie]

Hey Daxxie when I originally saw this comment I instantly thought about your titanium bike with the phaserunner. I swear you had a video showing off the flex somewhere but I couldn't find it. I'm interested in how much flex the E55 has in comparison to the other frames

Yes that was with a phaserunner
it was difficult to get it smooth.



I want to order and try an E56 but first have to finish these two.
Just had them ceramic coated.

 

[Cigales]

Hello readers,
I feel an update as well as an big thanks to everyone who helped me out would be more than welcome.
I've fixed my issue with the motor not developing the amount of power I was expecting. It turns out the original motor it self (not the controller) was defective. I bought a new motor from Greenbikekit which works wonderfully (and although their first motor was shite, they did helped me out and their seconds motor is perfectly fine) . The battery was not at fault at all. I haven't exactly found out what part of the motor is broken. Could be the winding, temp sensor, or maybe the pedal torq sensor as the controller was replaced and it did not fix the issue. The power settings I used from Freys Ultra Smooth blog post works wonderfully well with my new motor, so that wasn't an issue either. And the Eggrider display also was not a issue, it works fine.
Maybe when I have time, I'll try to diagnose exactly what is wrong now that I have many spare parts to test and cross test.
It took me pretty much one year to get this bike working! I'm happy it's now ready for north hemisphere spring time
At some point I'll post my comprehensive post to show case the bike, first I want ride it

If it does turn out to be the battery then I'm sure that Herbert will stand by it. I still can't see how it would be if you are getting a good reading off the terminals?

I am having my own issues here where my motor cuts out completely and throws no error code within a mile or so of my place which is uphill. It will come back on if it sits for awhile like it is some kind of thermal cutout although the motor shouldn't be getting that warm and if I just do the shorter steeper hills in high modes that are right by my house it doesn't cut out....happens with both of my batteries btw that have never given me any grief to date.

Not sure if you have checked that electric bike review thread but there are a couple of guys on there that are really peeling back the onion on how to understand how best to set up an Ultra's tune.

 

[TeoElFeo]

Happy to hear you were finally able to resolve it! I imagine the relief you must be feeling now!

 

[Bengy22]

*

Sorry for the ping BojanZ but I remembered and saw you were interested in the Wheeltop Eds, did you ever get that one from aliexpress and what's your thoughts on it?

 

[timal]

Sorry for the ping BojanZ but I remembered and saw you were interested in the Wheeltop Eds, did you ever get that one from aliexpress and what's your thoughts on it?

Mate, you can now order them directly from Wheeltop. I've received an email saying that the shop was finally open. Free shipping from now.
We're thrilled to share with you that the WheelTop Electronic Derailleur System is now available for purchase on our official website. We’d like to express our gratitude for your interest and prepare a special offer for you: purchase now to enjoy $60 OFF at only $399.99!

WHEELTOP EDS-TX Wireless Carbon Electronic Shifter/Derailleur (Road Bike)

WheelTop

wheeltop.com

Buy Now​

 

[BojanZ]

Sorry for the ping BojanZ but I remembered and saw you were interested in the Wheeltop Eds, did you ever get that one from aliexpress and what's your thoughts on it?

Hi there, yes i received it, it was more expensive as timals option, as i could not order it directly from wheeltop. The eds works great, you can adjust every gears position manually, so it is precise. When not using it it goes into some kind of sleep mode and then when you move the bike it wakes up and initiates, so no worries that it will not connect with remote or have any lag when starting the bike. For now I am super satisfied.

 

[Barni]

Mate, you can now order them directly from Wheeltop. I've received an email saying that the shop was finally open. Free shipping from now.
We're thrilled to share with you that the WheelTop Electronic Derailleur System is now available for purchase on our official website. We’d like to express our gratitude for your interest and prepare a special offer for you: purchase now to enjoy $60 OFF at only $399.99!

WHEELTOP EDS-TX Wireless Carbon Electronic Shifter/Derailleur (Road Bike)

WheelTop

wheeltop.com

​ Buy Now​

Sold out.

 

[J. Dub]

Sold out.

It's been sold out. It has never been available on the website. They only made a splash page.
The current options are only on Aliexpress sadly.
I cannot figure out why Wheeltop will not sell these direct yet.

 

[Mabman]

My E22 since day 1 fresh out of the box and setup by a competent mechanic, if I do say so myself, has shifted for crap. Original drivetrain was SRAM 12spd GX. In conjunction with the torque capability of the M620 it didn't last very long either so I set about other less expensive options as I foresaw the need to have to replace components more frequently than I am used to and accepted that. So I switched to full steel cassettes and 11 spd and still didn't get the crisp, correct, shifting I wanted and have been living with it for the last couple thousand miles.....

What I think causes poor shifting, not just with the E22, but with all internal routed derailleur cables, is that without the breaks in the run like external routing can provide there is way too much friction and it hampers the derailleurs performance overall? This is particularly noticeable in the mid range of the cassette when there is the transition from the tension needed to achieve the larger cogs and the spring tension of the derailleur takes over when transitioning to the smaller ones. At least that is my experience. I have come up with a bodge that will separate the cable housing within the down tube at least by attaching cable housing stops to the plates within. It is a far reach for sure but I am at least going to follow through. However ultimately I have decided to go the electronic route by hook or by crook.

I steered away from the Shimano and SRAM electronic systems due to the fact that the components associated with them are even more expensive and didn't really address wear rate. But I was intrigued by the concept for sure. With the advent of the new T-Type SRAM and how stout it has been made with replaceable components and exact shifting I was all ready to find a new bike with UDH and throw down the $1500 USD to get it. It's only $$ right?

It is hard to source a UDH eBike frame until it becomes an accepted standard as I am positive it will going forward. I want to stay within the Bafang sphere because I require a throttle on any eBike I own for my reasons and riding around with it pinned everywhere is not one of them. My plan was to go down to a M560 also and I did find a few bikes that had UDH but some of their other features weren't as attractive. I have made posts on EMTBR about them both.

Problem is that I have a bike I mostly like now and it is paid for. There is an option available in the Archer DX1 Gen 2 system that is available for under $450 that works with any derailleur/cassette in any range of ratios and I have decided to go that route. Their latest version seems like it has addressed the issues that it had in V1 as far as shift speed and waterproofing as well as battery life. The handlebar controller is acceptable to me and even comes in red which is my accent color on the bike. They even are working on a way to connect with the onboard battery which should be well possible using one of the extra plugs under the motor that puts out the proper voltage?

The $450 upcharge is more acceptable to me over the $1500 for the T-Type as well as sourcing a new frame/motor, $$$$, as well as waiting months perhaps for that to transpire and dealing with selling on my current one that I didn't want to go through anyway. I am not getting any younger and prime riding time is upon us here! If I can achieve reliable shifting in the end it will be worth it.

If I have any luck or if not even I will edit this posting as it presents itself.

 

[Daxxie]

Finished my E23 custom Battery.
52V 1040Wh
Possible configurations:
Samsung 50E / 50S 21700

• 48V 960Wh 40Amp BMS
• 52V 1040Wh 40Amp BMS
• 52V 1040Wh 60Amp BMS

 

[Mabman]

Finished my E23 custom Battery.
52V 1040Wh
Possible configurations:
Samsung 50E / 50S 21700

• 48V 960Wh 40Amp BMS
• 52V 1040Wh 40Amp BMS
• 52V 1040Wh 60Amp BMS

View attachment 115444
View attachment 115450

View attachment 115458

Nice Daxxie but in order to take advantage of the higher Amp BMS wouldn't you be better off with the MoliCel P45 21700 cells that instead of 10A have a 45A rating?

 

[Daxxie]

Nice Daxxie but in order to take advantage of the higher Amp BMS wouldn't you be better off with the MoliCel P45 21700 cells that instead of 10A have a 45A rating?

The Molicell is a great cell but has less capacity. 4500mAh vs 5000mAh > 18Ah vs 20Ah > 936Wh vs 1040wh
The Samsung 50S has a 35Amp rating x4 = 140Amp max. So 60Amps won't be a problem.
The Samsung is cheaper at the moment. (Here anyway)
Spaces are very tight and a Molicell is 21.7mm in diameter compared to 50E 21.1mm
I would have to redesign the case. Maybe they wouldn't even fit.
For the 40Amp version with 50E cells that configuration would be great for std M500/600 or M620 motor.
They don't pull over 30Amps so 50E's are good and relatively cheap for that.

 

[BojanZ]

Finished my E23 custom Battery.
52V 1040Wh
Possible configurations:
Samsung 50E / 50S 21700

• 48V 960Wh 40Amp BMS
• 52V 1040Wh 40Amp BMS
• 52V 1040Wh 60Amp BMS

View attachment 115444
View attachment 115450

View attachment 115458

Is this somehow available to purchase from you?

 

[J. Dub]

Team, does anyone know if dengfu use to make the frame that the biktrix monte capro ultra is currently using? Screen shot attached. I can't find any info on this frame and biktrix says they will not allow me to purchase the frame separately.

 

[Cigales]

MOTOR MOUNTING BOLTS DIRECTION - From other build pics i can see that the nuts go on the drive side EDIT - LOOKING AT MORE PICS, THIS IS INCORRECT - MORE OWNERS PUT THE BOLT HEAD ON THE DRIVE SIDE.
- But then, on the non drive side the nuts wont allow you to install the motor trim cover...
Am I missing somethign here?

Im sure this is a very simple thing but my brain just is out of ideas...pls help lol.

I don't see your pictures any more after your edit.

The nuts go on the non drive side. That's what the bafang plastique cover hides from view. Another clue is the heads of the motor mounting screws are flat for a reason, so that don't poke out like the bolts would do.
Why do the nuts prevent you from installing the bafang cover. Can you post a picture?

 

[twistgripper]

I don't see your pictures any more after your edit.

The nuts go on the non drive side. That's what the bafang plastique cover hides from view. Another clue is the heads of the motor mounting screws are flat for a reason, so that don't poke out like the bolts would do.
Why do the nuts prevent you from installing the bafang cover. Can you post a picture?

thanks for responding - i figured it out - it comes down to poor fit and finish on the carbon fibre frame. I guess because they are hand built there will be some variation - i had to force the trim cover on - there are 1-2mm gaps and tight spots as the curves of the frame don't match the trim perfectly.

 

[Cigales]

No worries, good job. I had the similar issue when installing the rear shock, i sanded down ~0.5mm of the interior of the mount points. Not to mention I added several coats of paint.