Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[twistgripper]

My E22 since day 1 fresh out of the box and setup by a competent mechanic, if I do say so myself, has shifted for crap......
...So I switched to full steel cassettes and 11 spd and still didn't get the crisp, correct, shifting I wanted....What I think causes poor shifting...is that without the breaks in the run like external routing can provide there is way too much friction and it hampers the derailleurs performance overall? This is particularly noticeable in the mid range of the cassette when there is the transition from the tension needed to achieve the larger cogs and the spring tension of the derailleur takes over when transitioning to the smaller ones.

Just finishing my build and found the same thing; I cannot get the shifting bang on - keep getting stuttering in the middle of cassette, if I adjust that out then it wont go onto the biggest cog easily. Im using Deore RD, SLX shifter and i even lubed the cables on install - this setup has proven butter smooth shifting on other builds.

I think you're on the right track partially - really i think it's the extreme bends in the cable that create the most friction. At the motor area exiting to the rear triangle - and then again inside the chainstay.

Im thinking i might remove the cable from the rear chainstay and just mount it externally where it exits the motor. That should remove the 2 most extreme bends hopefully. If that fails i'll buy the best damn quality shift cable you can find - whatever that may be....

 

[Mabman]

You are on the right track for sure. I considered that also but after going with the Archer system I have solved my issues. It was a bit fiddly to set up however. Like any der. system it shifts different on the stand than under load. Usually you tune the adjuster at the pod while moving but you really can only make fine adjustment via the app.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

My experience with derailer systems is generally the cheaper ones can sometimes be impossible to correctly index.

EG, Sram NX/SX on my old trek was impossible to get every gear perfect. You would adjust it so it was happy at one end of the cassette. Then the other would be unhappy. So you adjust it the other way, and vice versa. Could never get it where all gears were in perfect alignment at all times. Yet, GX and then later X01 was perfect. Same bike same cable housing and routing etc.

And it's not just a problem with cable systems. My Kindernay 7 has never had perfect shifting performance. And that is hydraulically actuated.

 

[BojanZ]

That is why I bought EDS, expensive but does the job perfectly. I was sick of skipping chains and gears and all the noises at the back

 

[twistgripper]

Finished my build....first test ride, chain snapped within 5 minutes...brand new kmc 11 spd chain so not garbage quality.

ffs. maybe upgrade to shimano linkglide???

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Finished my build....first test ride, chain snapped within 5 minutes...brand new kmc 11 spd chain so not garbage quality.

ffs. maybe upgrade to shimano linkglide???

E22 lyfe.

I thought I was finally rid of all my drivetrain problems, but my last 2 rides, I broke 2 chain master links. I'm still using the Box Prime chain, with the kindernay VII. Up until now I had not really had chain trouble. The box prime chain has held up to the abuse for quite a while. My OEM front 44t steel chain ring is wearing out. And the Kindernay (made by KMC) 22t rear cog is showing wear aswell.

So I am going to replace the chain, chainring and rear cog with new all at once.

 

[twistgripper]

E22 lyfe.

I thought I was finally rid of all my drivetrain problems, but my last 2 rides, I broke 2 chain master links. I'm still using the Box Prime chain, with the kindernay VII. Up until now I had not really had chain trouble. The box prime chain has held up to the abuse for quite a while. My OEM front 44t steel chain ring is wearing out. And the Kindernay (made by KMC) 22t rear cog is showing wear aswell.

So I am going to replace the chain, chainring and rear cog with new all at once.

I've been scouring aliexpress tonight and there is Shimano cues 6000 parts all over (Linkglide). Linkglide is supposedly better shifting under load, e-bike rated, and 3x more durable than HG drivetrains. the only thing I could not confirm is if the chains are actually STRONGER. the linkglide chains still use the standard quick link though so that is the weakest point. (mine broke the quick link too).
I think im going to try a LINKGLIDE chain first (it will work on hg drivetrains) and if it last better I'll eventually upgrade the whole thing. - Linkglide has a different ratio so you have to do cassette/RD/shifter all together.
anrancee cycling store - I found 4 pc groupset (u6000 11 spd 50t Cassette/ chain/RD/shifter) shipped for around $200 cad ($130 usd) but i'd pick up a couple more chains to go with it just to be safe - I dont thing these were available when i first started shoppign or i would have gone that route to begin with.

 

[twistgripper]

Ground clearance/pedal strikes anyone?
Comparing to my Devinci AC EMTB, my E22 has 23mm (~ 1 inch) LESS clearance from pedals to ground. This is resulting in a LOT more pedal strikes on climbs compared to my Devinci.
Obviously going to 150mm cranks is the best solution... adding offset bushings to rear shock might get me 4+mm more clearance in the rear.

Anyone drilled out their original cranks to 150mm and grind off the excess? For the price of the 150mm cranks, i'd rather own the tools to mod my existing cranks at 1/3 the cost of the Miranda cranks.

 

[BojanZ]

Ground clearance/pedal strikes anyone?
Comparing to my Devinci AC EMTB, my E22 has 23mm (~ 1 inch) LESS clearance from pedals to ground. This is resulting in a LOT more pedal strikes on climbs compared to my Devinci.
Obviously going to 150mm cranks is the best solution... adding offset bushings to rear shock might get me 4+mm more clearance in the rear.

Anyone drilled out their original cranks to 150mm and grind off the excess? For the price of the 150mm cranks, i'd rather own the tools to mod my existing cranks at 1/3 the cost of the Miranda cranks.

I also have this problem, even more troublesome because i have 27.5 rear wheel.

 

[twistgripper]

I also have this problem, even more troublesome because i have 27.5 rear wheel.

I'm running 27.5x2.8, which is nearly same diameter as a 29" 2.3, and i really like the wider tires anyhow...
compared to 29" x 2.35; would raise the rear end about 9mm, and 29"x2.6" (if they fit) would raise rear end approx 14mm (based on this tire shootout)
So going to 29" might raise the cranks by 4.5-7mm.. a similar or slightly bigger change than adding offset bushings to shock, but a decrease in handling and traction imho... Seems modding or changing to 150mm cranks will make the single biggest difference.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Ground clearance/pedal strikes anyone?
Comparing to my Devinci AC EMTB, my E22 has 23mm (~ 1 inch) LESS clearance from pedals to ground. This is resulting in a LOT more pedal strikes on climbs compared to my Devinci.
Obviously going to 150mm cranks is the best solution... adding offset bushings to rear shock might get me 4+mm more clearance in the rear.

Anyone drilled out their original cranks to 150mm and grind off the excess? For the price of the 150mm cranks, i'd rather own the tools to mod my existing cranks at 1/3 the cost of the Miranda cranks.

What length fork do you have? A longer fork might help get the BB higher. And how is the suspension set up, perhaps play with sag etc.

Pedal strikes are an occasional annoyance for me, but I wouldnt really consider them common.

 

[twistgripper]

What length fork do you have? A longer fork might help get the BB higher. And how is the suspension set up, perhaps play with sag etc.

Pedal strikes are an occasional annoyance for me, but I wouldnt really consider them common.

RS Zeb 170mm - i aim for 20% sag so on the upper end of pressure. I think i had my rear shock pressure too low... more testing needed.. but still its a downgrade as far as ground clearance goes compared to my old bike.

 

[BelviGER]

Just bought an e22 from a builder in germany, looking forward to getting it in a couple days

Apparently he can fit a 14s5p 21700 pack which I'm very curious to see

 

[J. Dub]

That is why I bought EDS, expensive but does the job perfectly. I was sick of skipping chains and gears and all the noises at the back

Are you in the facebook EDS owners group? @BojanZ

 

[Mirus]

Can anyone let me know if this motor noise is normal? I haven't ridden the bike at all yet, almost done building it.

I've taken the motor apart and made sure all the gears mesh together well, as well as added a ton of extra grease (very little from the factory) but it still sounds pretty loud.

 

[Mabman]

Doesn't sound normal to me. I don't recommend using a "ton of extra grease" . A few tablespoons of John Deere Cornhead grease has made mine virtually silent. Not sure what the clicking sound is though as even with the minimal stock grease the two motors I've had never sounded like that?

 

[Mirus]

Doesn't sound normal to me. I don't recommend using a "ton of extra grease" . A few tablespoons of John Deere Cornhead grease has made mine virtually silent. Not sure what the clicking sound is though as even with the minimal stock grease the two motors I've had never sounded like that?

That's how it sounded stock. I added the John Deer Cornhead grease but the sound didn't change.

I bought it from Luna around a year ago but this build got delayed. Doubt they would believe that it has zero miles on it.

The shaft/pawls seem fine since it is quiet with normal pedaling. Something is just odd with the 3 removable gears (or that one non-removable gear)? Not sure what to look for though. They would lock up if something didn't mesh correctly, right?

 

[Mabman]

It does take a few miles of "break in" for the grease to take full effect I've found. I've had M620's apart enough times to know that it would be hard to mess up putting the internal gears back in correctly?

Just listened again and now get that the first part was pedal only and the second via throttle. The pedal only doesn't sound too bad given my previous statement about break in but for sure the throttle part is not at all good.....I admit that I have never "pedaled" one with the case split to see what pedaling alone activates in the gearbox but I would assume that there is some sort of one way clutch in there? So that would lead me to believe that perhaps the problem is with the part that engages when power is applied? It is like there is a pawl of some sort that is hanging up?

Don't think there is a blow up of the motor online but this parts list from GBK does show that the motor clutch looks to be a three pawl type? Bafang ultra G510 /M620 replacement parts BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Kind of hard to diagnose online but for sure there is something wrong. Try getting ahold of Seb, [email protected], and send him the video and make your case, which may take a bit for a reply? I had different issues with a replacement motor for my Z1 that they had taken out of a brand new bike and it took awhile to sort out but they took good care of me in the end. It just takes some back and forth with usually a day's wait between emails.

 

[twistgripper]

went on another test ride - Im really bummed about this build....pedal strikes like crazy again. the bb height on my setup is 333mm. My other enduro (Devinci AC) has 360-370 (adjustable flip chips) mm bb height, and pedal strikes are not too frequent on it. i have it on the 360mm setting.

for this ride I had upped the rear shock pressure to 280 - thats a hair more than recommended for my weight (220 lb with gear) and there's already max tokens in the shock so i cannot reduce air volume any more. still blowing through too much shock travel too easily - will try a rediculous 300-320psi (max is 325). short of going to a strong coil shock i really don't know what else to do about the shock.

Im running a 170mm fork and 27.5x2.8 tires. it seems this wheel/tire setup is not a good choice on this frame.
In addition to going to 150mm cranks (which still wont be enough imho),
I could go to a 180mm fork
and 29x2.5 or 2.6 tires - that should get me ?? hopefully 30-40mm more ground clearance/bb height.

Has anyone tried a shock longer than recommended like a 235-240? looks like it could be done and still not contact the yoke. Im so frustrated at the thought of having to change wheels, fork, shock possibly just to be able to climb rough trails normally.

Has anyone measured their actual BB height? care to share?

 

[J. Dub]

Can anyone let me know if this motor noise is normal? I haven't ridden the bike at all yet, almost done building it.

No that is not normal. Is this the Luna Z1?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

went on another test ride - Im really bummed about this build....pedal strikes like crazy again. the bb height on my setup is 333mm. My other enduro (Devinci AC) has 360-370 (adjustable flip chips) mm bb height, and pedal strikes are not too frequent on it. i have it on the 360mm setting.

for this ride I had upped the rear shock pressure to 280 - thats a hair more than recommended for my weight (220 lb with gear) and there's already max tokens in the shock so i cannot reduce air volume any more. still blowing through too much shock travel too easily - will try a rediculous 300-320psi (max is 325). short of going to a strong coil shock i really don't know what else to do about the shock.

Im running a 170mm fork and 27.5x2.8 tires. it seems this wheel/tire setup is not a good choice on this frame.
In addition to going to 150mm cranks (which still wont be enough imho),
I could go to a 180mm fork
and 29x2.5 or 2.6 tires - that should get me ?? hopefully 30-40mm more ground clearance/bb height.

Has anyone tried a shock longer than recommended like a 235-240? looks like it could be done and still not contact the yoke. Im so frustrated at the thought of having to change wheels, fork, shock possibly just to be able to climb rough trails normally.

Has anyone measured their actual BB height? care to share?

When I built my E22 initially (far be it with angle headset) and 27.5x2.8 tyres and 170mm fork, bb height was 330mm. With 29x2.4 rear and 29x2.5, bb height is around 342mm. I use 165mm cranks. Yes, I do agree that the E22's bb height is low. This can be either a good thing or bad thing depending on your view.
Personally, I like the low bb height. But i appreciate it's not for everyone.

 

[twistgripper]

Thanks Neeko, that confirms it. I like challenging climbs and a low bb just does not work for me. I might try 29x2.5 or 2.6, and offset bushings, should help but will dramatically change the handling most likely.

 

[Mirus]

No that is not normal. Is this the Luna Z1?

Yeah, Luna Z1, replaced basically every stock part except the frame/motor. Hopefully can finish it soon and take a picture of the finished build.

Thanks Neeko, that confirms it. I like challenging climbs and a low bb just does not work for me. I might try 29x2.5 or 2.6, and offset bushings, should help but will dramatically change the handling most likely.

I was about to suggest switching to 29". Probably your best bet for adding height. Luna and other manufacturers have switched to offering 29" probably for similar reasons.

 

[J. Dub]

Yeah, Luna Z1

Surely they will fix the motor issue being so loud. Sounds like it may not be good for motor long term.

 

[rivets]

Completed my build this past weekend (need a smaller chainring). This thread was very helpful and insightful. May be selling the Turbo Levo after this. Such a beast of a bike.



View attachment 89685

If anyone's in California, this bike is now for sale.

 

[J. Dub]

If anyone's in California, this bike is now for sale.

Kept your evo I presume?

 

[Mabman]

For those that have UART M620 motors, either 48v or 52v (highly recommended btw via GBK) here is a good base of understanding on programming: Ultra Tuning: Master Thread -- Start Here!

Take your time and you should end up with a proper tune. Worked for me!

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I'll take better pics once the weather gets better. However,

here is what the two look like side by side. Both Large frames

The E22 in my opinion is still a fantastic bike. And I have no regrets, doubts and have no intention of getting rid of it......EVER!!!

The E55 in a lot of ways, has taken cues from my E22 setup. But without the need of the angle headset. Essentially, they are both capable of the same headtube angle with the same fork travel (without an angle headset on the E55). And the seat tube angle is steeper.

I'll elaborate on the connotations of the geometry difference between the two in due course, as one could argue that both are using the same motor and both are capable as to the same peak output when both ran with either 48v or 52v batteries. Conversely, the weigh between the two differs. But let's face it, any ebike weighting more than 26kg will demonstrate particular traits in terms of handling.

I'll share these images on the E55/E56 thread as well

 

[temon10]

It's the standard size chainring for the bike. And it works out to be a really good size for standard wide range groupsets.

You really don't need any smaller at the front when you have the bafang ultra.

You can still climb with the 44t, it really doesn't shift the gearing that far that it makes it unrideable.

can I use 48t chainring?

 

[Mirus]

I put 50t on mine and it clears (dunno if it will hit when the rear triangle flexes under torque). I was afraid to try 52t (would be cutting it close but who knows).