Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[El Topo]

Yes. But very very very similar.
....
For all intensive purposes, they are the same bike, except with a different motor. And in order to fit the different motor, they would need to make the nessisary alterations to the frame.

I forgot to say, thank you for this interesting write up!

I suspected Dengfu would say this.
...Nevertheless, I too agree with Dengfu's decision NOT to mix and match the rear end of the E22/E10 with the E23.

Why do you think that this wouldn't be a good idea specifically, if the rear ends are really the same?
I asked the sales rep to ask the engineers for clarification, and they said they cannot be combined.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Nice...what color?

Been trying to decide trying to come up with a good theme.just hit with metalic silver always a good start .. lol

 

[CaptainBobt]

So jealous, frame ETA 1-2 weeks here. Why don't you wait for my delivery and we'll have a race

Haha, I would but man the 57 days I waited almost killed me ..lol

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Why do you think that this wouldn't be a good idea specifically, if the rear ends are really the same?
I asked the sales rep to ask the engineers for clarification, and they said they cannot be combined.

I can confirm that the rear ends of the E10 and E22 are compatible, as I have swapped them over. But I don't own a E23. So I'm not in a position to definitively say that you can combine the front triangle of the E10 with the rear triangle of the E23.
However, myself and my suspension chap were chatting about this the other day. To which, he raised a good point concerning the chainstay length of the E23 vs the E22.

Whilst it shouldn't come as a shock to recognise that the E23's chainstays are longer than the E22 and E10, the proportions of the bike overall would not favour those who would ride a small or medium frame size. Baring in mind, that the chainstay length remains consecutive regardless of which frame size you order, I imagine that a rider who would suit a small 15.5" E10 frame (with a top tube length of 598mm and reach of 430mm) and a medium 17" E10 frame (with a top tube length of 627mm and a reach of 455mm), may find it difficult to maneuver the bike with a chainstay length of 484mm.

Their would be further connotations concerning the revised unsprung weight. But I'd rather not go into 'boffin mode' for today .
If I may ask @El Topo, why do you wish to swap the E10's rear end for an E23's?

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

I can confirm that the rear ends of the E10 and E22 are compatible, as I have swapped them over. But I don't own a E23. So I'm not in a position to definitively say that you can combine the front triangle of the E10 with the rear triangle of the E23.
However, myself and my suspension chap were chatting about this the other day. To which, he raised a good point concerning the chainstay length of the E23 vs the E22.

Whilst it shouldn't come as a shock to recognise that the E23's chainstays are longer than the E22 and E10, the proportions of the bike overall would not favour those who would ride a small or medium frame size. Baring in mind, that the chainstay length remains consecutive regardless of which frame size you order, I imagine that a rider who would suit a small 15.5" E10 frame (with a top tube length of 598mm and reach of 430mm) and a medium 17" E10 frame (with a top tube length of 627mm and a reach of 455mm), may find it difficult to maneuver the bike with a chainstay length of 484mm.
View attachment 93865
Their would be further connotations concerning the revised unsprung weight. But I'd rather not go into 'boffin mode' for today .
If I may ask @El Topo, why do you wish to swap the E10's rear end for an E23's?

Thats a good point about the additional chainstay length with e23 and smaller frames. I guess that's why alot of higher end brands will make different rear ends for different frame sizes.

Even on the e22, that was one of the very first things I noticed when I got mine. It has long chainstays compared to my old bike. At first I was a bit wierded out by it. But now I'm used to it, and can see the positives. I also feel it's a good match for the bike overall, as you can easily get up to those fastr speeds with the motor. Bearing in mind, I'm on a large e22 frame. It might well be too much on a smaller frame e23 as you mention.

I think the benefit of that longer rear end, with out nessisarily a matching ridiculously long reach, is it naturally puts more weight over the front tyre. And it makes a stable and predictable platform at speed.

The negatives is it makes the bike a little bit more difficult to manoeuvre in very tight switch backs.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Let the games begin

View attachment 93794

May be useful to somebody:
Dengfu won't provide vinyl decals, understandably - they screen print logos as part of the manufacturing process (I was planning to use vinyl decals as a mask for my paint job). However, their logo seems to be just a string of characters using a typeface called 'Sofachrome'. So do with that what you will.

View attachment 93830
[edit - awful spelling]

Lol that's a riot I was actually considering "DangFuuL"

 

[El Topo]

Thank you for the reply, @Neeko DeVinchi. I was aware of the chainstay length, and actually wanted to add that as a consideration to my previous post, but must have forgotten about it. It basically acts as a slightly longer lever in the suspension design, compared to the shorter chainstays of the E10/E22s rear, which might be an issue on the E10's frame, but not with the E22's frame design. Without a software to check the geometry/suspension and my very limited knowledge regarding this, I couldn't even guess.

If I may ask @El Topo, why do you wish to swap the E10's rear end for an E23's?

It is quite simple, I want a lighter bike and don't need the M620's power, but definitely want to run fat tires. I also want to motor that encourages me to pedal harder myself.
Having shorter chainstays (because of how the motor sits in the frame), as well as the possibility to get a 17" instead of 18" frame is another bonus, I would certainly appreciate, because both combined with the ligher may translate to a more to a more agile riding experience, even for a fairly unskilled rider, like I am one. I would miss the water bottle and like the optics of the E22's front triangle more, but that is a loss I am willing to accept.
Initially, I was hoping to get a an adapter plate to mount the M510 into the E23 but that plate has so far only been a prototype, and the creator does not plan to sell it, because of the low demand to convert a M620 frame into a M5x0/M600 frame. Understandably, most users want more power but not less.

That being said, so far I only testrode an M620 from Innotrace, but I know that all the current motors from the established brands like Bosch, Shimano, Brose, etc. provide enough power for what I need/want, so I can only assume a M510 would be sufficient (if its software is getting more usable....). In fact, I doubt, I would run any of those in their Turbo mode, except maybe on very rare occasions.
In fact, that new Intra-Drive, motor gear with integrated box system is pretty much what I have been looking for ages, and would also conveniently solve any potential unsprung mass issues with the longer chainstays of the fat rear triangle. I think that there will be a Shimano to M500 adapter coming soon from the same user.

@Neeko DeVinchi, couldn't you get in touch with Dengfu, you seem to have a good connection with them? If they would consider validating that setup, I doubt I will get another answer if I ask again - which I totally understand.
I would be okay to run a bike like yours (because of the overstroking of the shock), where the warranty is void, but common sense says, that I should not expect issues.
If someone would tell me, that I shouldn't attempt a 2m drop with that Frankenframe-setup, but should not worry otherwise, I think I would be fine to take the risk to actually build the bike up like that, but I couldn't afford to waste my money if it is not going to work for whatever reason.

 

[BonBond]

Buying forks (maybe today!), I'm conflicted and wondering if I could get your opinions...I'm on a budget, so shopping for discounted forks and not really looking at other options...

RockShox Lyrik Ultimate RC2 DebonAir (2021) - 170mm/51mm
Amazing reviews, easy setup, almost certainly over-spec'd for the kind of riding I do.

Fox 38 Float Performance GRIP (2022) - 160mm/44mm
Beefier still, totally unnecessary for my riding, but aesthetically the chunkiness of them will balance better against the frame I think.

Both 29er, The RRP for both is pretty much the same too, as is the discount.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Buying forks (maybe today!), I'm conflicted and wondering if I could get your opinions...I'm on a budget, so shopping for discounted forks and not really looking at other options...

RockShox Lyrik Ultimate RC2 DebonAir (2021) - 170mm/51mm
Amazing reviews, easy setup, almost certainly over-spec'd for the kind of riding I do.

Fox 38 Float Performance GRIP (2022) - 160mm/44mm
Beefier still, totally unnecessary for my riding, but aesthetically the chunkiness of them will balance better against the frame I think.

Both 29er, The RRP for both is pretty much the same too, as is the discount.

That's a tuff one I prefer the longer travel of the Rock shock you listed but imo the Fox 38 is just a better option.

 

[El Topo]

@Daxxie, could you maybe chime in on the issue of the E23 rear triangle with a E10 front triangle?

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Out of just those 2 options. I'd probs go the lyrik ultimate. I had no issues with previous bikes with lyriks.

I personally went with a mazocchi coil z1, which is cheaper than both those options. I love the feel of coil shocks and wanted to try a coil fork. Im glad i did. It only has a fox grip damper, but It does what it needs to do.

Buying forks (maybe today!), I'm conflicted and wondering if I could get your opinions...I'm on a budget, so shopping for discounted forks and not really looking at other options...

RockShox Lyrik Ultimate RC2 DebonAir (2021) - 170mm/51mm
Amazing reviews, easy setup, almost certainly over-spec'd for the kind of riding I do.

Fox 38 Float Performance GRIP (2022) - 160mm/44mm
Beefier still, totally unnecessary for my riding, but aesthetically the chunkiness of them will balance better against the frame I think.

Both 29er, The RRP for both is pretty much the same too, as is the discount.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Paint job so far ..Goes easy on me fellas . Lol

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

W

Paint job so far ..Goes easy on me fellas . Lol

View attachment 93964

Wow. That's looking amazing.

 

[CaptainBobt]

W

Wow. That's looking amazing.

Thank you

 

[BonBond]

Out of just those 2 options. I'd probs go the lyrik ultimate. I had no issues with previous bikes with lyriks.

I personally went with a mazocchi coil z1, which is cheaper than both those options. I love the feel of coil shocks and wanted to try a coil fork. Im glad i did. It only has a fox grip damper, but It does what it needs to do.

They're both 60 quid cheaper than the Bomber Z1s here, I'm shopping for a bargain.

I got an email that the Fox forks were back in stock, that's what spurred my excitement yesterday. Both of them are higher spec than I actually need. Still procrastinating.

82kg rider, bike approaching 30kg (?), nobody is riding 'ebike specific' forks on their E22 right?

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

They're both 60 quid cheaper than the Bomber Z1s here, I'm shopping for a bargain.

I got an email that the Fox forks were back in stock, that's what spurred my excitement yesterday. Both of them are higher spec than I actually need. Still procrastinating.

82kg rider, bike approaching 30kg (?), nobody is riding 'ebike specific' forks on their E22 right?

Ah OK.

I got my Z1 at about 40% off RRP. Pushys discounted it 25% right when I was collecting parts for the build. And I have a 15% coupon code that never seams to expire. So all up it was a massive discount. Only thing was I couldn't choose the red color, they only had blacks in stock.

 

[CaptainBobt]

Paint job so far ..Goes easy on me fellas . Lol

View attachment 93964

They're both 60 quid cheaper than the Bomber Z1s here, I'm shopping for a bargain.

I got an email that the Fox forks were back in stock, that's what spurred my excitement yesterday. Both of them are higher spec than I actually need. Still procrastinating.

82kg rider, bike approaching 30kg (?), nobody is riding 'ebike specific' forks on their E22 right?

Both those shocks forks are more than enough and no don't buy into that whole ebike specific labeling. The biggest difference in your 2 options is stanction size the lyrik is 35mm and the fox is 38 obviously, for me personally I prefer the fatter fork. mainly for looks to be honest.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Figured I'd share this quick video which I posted on the Dengfu Frame Facebook community which covers the UART DZ41 display

 

[BonBond]

Ah OK.

I got my Z1 at about 40% off RRP. Pushys discounted it 25% right when I was collecting parts for the build. And I have a 15% coupon code that never seams to expire. So all up it was a massive discount. Only thing was I couldn't choose the red color, they only had blacks in stock.

Ah well, Fox forks promptly out of stock again. :/

People generally putting 160 or 170mm forks on their E22s right (apologies, think I asked this earlier in the thread, but its there are >20 pages of it now ) ?

Just wondering how much the folk length should be influencing my purchase.

 

[BonBond]

Figured I'd share this quick video which I posted on the Dengfu Frame Facebook community which covers the UART DZ41 display

Nice, really like the look minimal, uncluttered look of that display. Somebody posted earlier, questioning the ergonomics (around the positioning of the mode button/accidental presses). Is that an issue in practice?

This doesn't display watts like the 500C either does it? I like the look of this display a lot, but think I'd miss the visualisation of how much I was thrashing the motor.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Ah well, Fox forks promptly out of stock again. :/

People generally putting 160 or 170mm forks on their E22s right (apologies, think I asked this earlier in the thread, but its there are >20 pages of it now ) ?

Just wondering how much the folk length should be influencing my purchase.

Honestly @BonBond. As long as the fork is 160-170 with a 44mm offset, you can pretty much slap any decent fork onto the E22.
I've seen members use the Zeb, Marzocchi Bomber, Lyriks, Domains etc.

Speaking of the Domain, have you considered that fork?

 

[BonBond]

Honestly @BonBond. As long as the fork is 160-170 with a 44mm offset, you can pretty much slap any decent fork onto the E22.
I've seen members use the Zeb, Marzocchi Bomber, Lyriks, Domains etc.

Speaking of the Domain, have you considered that fork?

Nope, wasn't even aware they existed! I was set on some Zebs, but then got bogged down in 'not those Zebs, these Zebs' conversations with myself (wanted RC2, could only source R). Actually got as far as checkout with the RC2s, but then got slapped with a red banner warning me about post-Brexit tax and import duty.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Nope, wasn't even aware they existed! I was set on some Zebs, but then got bogged down in 'not those Zebs, these Zebs' conversations with myself (wanted RC2, could only source R). Actually got as far as checkout with the RC2s, but then got slapped with a red banner warning me about post-Brexit tax and import duty.

Gottya
Components are becoming more difficult to source nowadays. And my stubbornness is refusing to pay more money for a specific component, just because a particular vendor has it available.

I will say this, gone are the days where internally upgrading forks would be a work to having a better fork. I remember buying some Marzocchi Bomber Z1s, with the intention of changing the damper to a Grip2. With everything becoming more expensive, that plan has been put on hold.

Best advice, assess all options and see what else is available.

I've heard good things about DVO suspension and the Suntour Durolux line looks interesting.

 

[BonBond]

Possibly a silly question - can I get a headset for the E22 that will take a 1.8" tapered steerer? I know the stock headset takes 1.5" tapered, but wondering if 1.8" is an option.....

 

[Chili]

Regarding the battery aspect, I'm personally aiming for a 52v (nominal) if possible.
My previous ebike was a hub motor + external controller running on 81.4V (nominal, 92v fully charged) (22s8p Samsung25R cells). There were several reasons why I opted for this range of voltage.

• For hub motors, 1V = 1Km/h in speed. So if you are fully charged, thus 92v, you are roughly able get 90km/h top speed. (in good conditions). I wanted to be able to get high speeds on my bike as I was transferring from a daily driver combustion motorbike which had good speed and good range. Where I live, a vehicle is almost a must. This is one reason why higher voltage was preferred.
  But not to forget, you always have voltage sag when an electrical load is applied. This is where my next point starts
• Voltage sag means my top speed was lower than the 1V = 1Km/h rule (or should I call it a guideline). To soften the impact, I chose to custom build (not me, someone else made if for me) which allowed me to over-dimension the electrical specs.
• By opting for a 22s8p configuration, I was able to reduce voltage sag and reduce chemistry wear and tear by never going bellow a certain voltage. Not to mention a higher C rate (discharge amperage rating). Manufacturers battery cells' datasheet was very helpful in determining these limits as well as a spreadsheet which made cost vs specs easier to determine.
• Efficiency and less heat dissipation is also a nice outcome. Wire section section can be smaller, although I recommend good grade silicon sleeve multi thread wires

Now there are downsides to playing:

• 插入放电和充电连接器时，你会得到很好的电弧，虽然你确实得到了较低的电压，但没有那么令人印象深刻。这是由流入电容器的浪涌电流引起的。防止这种电弧和撕裂是连接器金属触点的唯一方法是加入一个防火花（又名预充电）电阻器。这是一根额外的正极线，连接在主正极线之前。它有一个电阻器，可以降低电压并比使用主正极线更慢地为电容器充电。
  用电的时候我也很舒服，因为我过去犯了很多错误，以至于我的鼻子在看到烟雾之前就已经感觉到了，哈哈！
  
• 找到合适的充电器是个麻烦事。它们比普通的 42v 充电器大一点，并且由于内部风扇而产生噪音。
  81.4V（92v 全）锂离子充电器在 2013 年不容易找到。好吧，有一些，但如上所述，我选择将电池组充电至最大 90V 以希望延长寿命而不是 92V . 为此，您需要一个可调节的充电器。当时，我使用的是 EMC-400 和 EMC-600。
• 尺寸和重量。我的电池很大，自行车没有足够的空间，所以我买了一个放在主下管上的两个袋子，因此我的电池组实际上是两个连接在一起的 11s8p 组。
• 最后一个缺点，我没有制造电池组，所以我没有任何必要的工具来维护或修理它。您不能寻求 RMA，因为它是自制的。你靠你自己。

回到 E22。我的目标是52V设置。
遗憾的是，登孚的 Melody 告诉我他们不卖 52V 电池。
你们认为我可以从哪里购买 52V 电池？
这些是我迄今为止发现的唯一产品列表：

• 295.74￡ 10% 折扣|八方 M620/G510 电动自行车电池组 52V 14Ah 15Ah 隐藏式登福电动自行车车架电池| | - 速卖通
• Dengfu E10 Ebike Frame 1000w Bafang Motor Frame M500 M600 52v 15ah Down Tube 隐藏式电动自行车电池 - 购买 Reention Dorado Plus 48v 电池，Ebike 电池组 48v 17.5ah，Bbs01b Bbs02b 250w 500w Product on Alibaba.com

它被列为Dengfu框架兼容。但我想知道我是否可以使用 Lunacycle X1 作为参考来搜索网络。

我宁愿从购买的电池开始。一旦我对自行车有了更多的经验，我想建立一个定制的电池组。
[/引用]
你好，这是辣椒，我可以提供52v电池，我也可以给您一些制造52v电池的建议

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Possibly a silly question - can I get a headset for the E22 that will take a 1.8" tapered steerer? I know the stock headset takes 1.5" tapered, but wondering if 1.8" is an option.....

Your could get a crown race reducer, if you're running the stock headset.
Alternatively, you could buy a headset from Superstar components, Works Components, Wolf Tooth etc

 

[CaptainBobt]

Your could get a crown race reducer, if you're running the stock headset.
Alternatively, you could buy a headset from Superstar components, Works Components, Wolf Tooth etc

While where on headsets, is every putting the stock one in the bin ..? It Seems okayish .. but I'm suspect ..

 

[BonBond]

Your could get a crown race reducer, if you're running the stock headset.
Alternatively, you could buy a headset from Superstar components, Works Components, Wolf Tooth etc

I'm confused, if the stock takes a 1.5" tapered steerer, reducing that puts me in the wrong direction doesn't it? I've found some forks i'm interested in with 1.8" taper, need bigger not smaller.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I'm confused, if the stock takes a 1.5" tapered steerer, reducing that puts me in the wrong direction doesn't it? I've found some forks i'm interested in with 1.8" taper, need bigger not smaller.

Oh!!
I was of the belief you were wishing to run a Boxxer fork (or something along those lines).
Typically, the headsets used are ZS44-56 for 1 1:8 to 1 1:5 tapered steerer forks.

I have heard of some Zeb forks which use a different steerer design but I've not messed around with them.

Cane Creek may offer a solution but I haven't checked. I'll keep you posted if I find anything

 

[BonBond]

Oh!!
I was of the belief you were wishing to run a Boxxer fork (or something along those lines).
Typically, the headsets used are ZS44-56 for 1 1:8 to 1 1:5 tapered steerer forks.

I have heard of some Zeb forks which use a different steerer design but I've not messed around with them.

Cane Creek may offer a solution but I haven't checked. I'll keep you posted if I find anything

Exactly that, I've found some Zebs with 1.8" taper, not the standard 1.5" (no doubt cheap because they're 'unusual').

Does anybody know the E22 standards for the headset bottom parts? I've got EC56/40 noted in my spreadsheet, but no idea where I sourced that information of whether its correct...