Bafang M500 and M600 motors

[vext]

This question is for m600 riders with a lot of miles on that motor.

How reliable is it in practice? For the sake of the question set aside any water intrusion issues. I can solve for those.

I'd like to know in a general sense if the m600 generally works as advertised or if around some milage point they tend to have internal failures.

Any insight would be helpful. Im trying to justify a cheeb build with an m600.

Thanks in advance

 

[Waynemarlow]

I have 1.5Km on mine without issue. Very powerful motor in standard form, seems to take a fair bit of UK mud and water abuse over the last winter, although I haven't stripped it to check. Lowest assistance level is way tooo powerful and tends to make the bike a pure EBike unlike some where the the lowest level will let you ride with other non Ebikers. Its also 1kg heavy.

Major problem is that its rapidly becoming the forgotten motor, where all the attention is on the M510 and all that nice firmware development has been forgotten about on the M600. I would suspect that unless Bafang do a firmware update, we may not be able to use the new BEEST Pro and all its benefits.

Other than the normal Bafang gripes of not being very up to date in the way firmware and user friendliness can be controlled by the user, so far mine has been a cracking motor.

 

[vext]

I have 1.5Km on mine without issue. Very powerful motor in standard form, seems to take a fair bit of UK mud and water abuse over the last winter, although I haven't stripped it to check. Lowest assistance level is way tooo powerful and tends to make the bike a pure EBike unlike some where the the lowest level will let you ride with other non Ebikers. Its also 1kg heavy.

Major problem is that its rapidly becoming the forgotten motor, where all the attention is on the M510 and all that nice firmware development has been forgotten about on the M600. I would suspect that unless Bafang do a firmware update, we may not be able to use the new BEEST Pro and all its benefits.

Other than the normal Bafang gripes of not being very up to date in the way firmware and user friendliness can be controlled by the user, so far mine has been a cracking motor.

Thanks for the insight.

The feeling I get is out of the box the m600 is slightly overpowered and the m510 is slightly underpowered say compared to bosch.

Would you say I have that right?

 

[El Topo]

The feeling I get is out of the box the m600 is slightly overpowered and the m510 is slightly underpowered say compared to bosch.

Does the M510 have equivalent to Bosch's MTB-mode, so the motor is controlled mainly by torque input, less by cadence and is more "adaptive"?
Can I tune the M510 like let's say an EP8, where you can adjust each mode in power and max. torque with its phone app?

There is so little information out there, it is really frustrating...

 

[Dave Rand]

The M600 has fantastic power, but Bafang firmware is poor and implementation even worse. I’ll forgive it because of the power and be mindful of its aggressive start power, especially when manoeuvring.

Not interested in messing with firmwares so that rules out the m510

 

[Dave Rand]

Yes technically the M510 is as powerful as the Bosch!
No and no!

Does the M510 have equivalent to Bosch's MTB-mode, so the motor is controlled mainly by torque input, less by cadence and is more "adaptive"?
Can I tune the M510 like let's say an EP8, where you can adjust each mode in power and max. torque with its phone app?

There is so little information out there, it is really frustrating...

 

[krokan]

Yes technically the M510 is as powerful as the Bosch!
No and no!

Yes you can adjust every level with new bafang besst pro.

See here Bafang m510 - EMTB Forums

 

[Dave Rand]

Still looks like hassle compared with Bosch and are passwords and login still needed? Or Python ball ache needed?

Yes you can adjust every level with new bafang besst pro.

See here Bafang m510 - EMTB Forums

 

[Kyokushin]

Guys, could you write Bafang and ask them for M600 (and M500) firmware with a possibility to adjust settings like inM510?
M600 is still on the market for 2023 and probably for future, and have good market share in US so it may be very helpful if Bafang prepare such firmware for this motor also.

 

[vext]

Guys, could you write Bafang and ask them for M600 (and M500) firmware with a possibility to adjust settings like inM510?
M600 is still on the market for 2023 and probably for future, and have good market share in US so it may be very helpful if Bafang prepare such firmware for this motor also.

Good idea. I just did that per your request.

On a different note - Does anyone know what version of the firmware is shipping on the M600 currently (or recently)?

 

[El Topo]

The M600 has fantastic power, but Bafang firmware is poor and implementation even worse. I’ll forgive it because of the power and be mindful of its aggressive start power, especially when manoeuvring.

Not interested in messing with firmwares so that rules out the m510

I may have phrased my question not clear enough, I didn't mean if any of the M5x0/600 motors can compete with the established brands in terms of raw power/torque, I am interested in having a good adaptive mode that is on par with the "Trail" mode of Shimano, or the "MTB" mode of Bosch.
In fact I would tune the motor down because I like the adaptive behavior but feel they help me too much.

It seems like not even the M510's firmware offers such a mode in a reliable way. They seem to mostly cadence driven, but not mainly by torque and what other sensor data Bosch or Shimano use to determine the motor output.

 

[Dave Rand]

I doubt Bafang are interested. Even their own Bafang Enduro MTB team do not run Bafang firmware and a lot of their riders would have experienced the amazing EMTB/Trail plus modes of the Bosch.


QUOTE="El Topo, post: 415842, member: 25598"]
I may have phrased my question not clear enough, I didn't mean if any of the M5x0/600 motors can compete with the established brands in terms of raw power/torque, I am interested in having a good adaptive mode that is on par with the "Trail" mode of Shimano, or the "MTB" mode of Bosch.
In fact I would tune the motor down because I like the adaptive behavior but feel they help me too much.

It seems like not even the M510's firmware offers such a mode in a reliable way. They seem to mostly cadence driven, but not mainly by torque and what other sensor data Bosch or Shimano use to determine the motor output.
[/QUOTE]

 

[El Topo]

Even their own Bafang Enduro MTB team do not run Bafang firmware ...

Which firmware are they running then?!
I mean, they can't be running a Bosch motor without anyone noticing it, do they have a custom firmware that noone else has acess too? I would like to think Bafang would implement a good trail mode if they had anyone actually coding it.

With the current state, I don't know if I can justify the purchase of any of these Bafang motors, I don't need/want power, I want a smooth and adaptive trail mode (preferably one where I downregulate the power, preferably via an app - not the other way around).

 

[Dave Rand]

Well they won’t be running a Bosch motor (I ment that most Mountain bikers have ridden a Bosch bike)
yes the team confirmed they are running custom firmware.
I doubt it even a coding issue! Probably more a Hardware limitation

Which firmware are they running then?!
I mean, they can't be running a Bosch motor without anyone noticing it, do they have a custom firmware that noone else has acess too? I would like to think Bafang would implement a good trail mode if they had anyone actually coding it.

With the current state, I don't know if I can justify the purchase of any of these Bafang motors, I don't need/want power, I want a smooth and adaptive trail mode (preferably one where I downregulate the power, preferably via an app - not the other way around).

 

[Kyokushin]

Good idea. I just did that per your request.

On a different note - Does anyone know what version of the firmware is shipping on the M600 currently (or recently)?

As far i know the 46.7 is used as a stock, and thats pretty good firmware imo.

 

[dvng]

As far i know the 46.7 is used as a stock, and thats pretty good firmware imo.

20.8 if your ride is 100% offroad.

 

[Kyokushin]

20.8 if your ride is 100% offroad.

Thats limited to 15A amps and is weaker.

 

[dvng]

Correct. The main thing is it doesn't have the aggressive ramp up which throws you off when riding technical trails.

 

[Kyokushin]

I like this ramp up, and higher amperage is better on steep hills. Good we can pick the firmware, and also thats the reason we need the adjustable firmware to easier adjust it to our requirements.

 

[dvng]

Yes on a non technical steep hill it is great, but if you are riding rooted, rutted and technical steep short singletrack rails, its very annoying. Its a compromise on long steep hills, i switch to 5 PAS levels rather 9 PAS levels. This helps on the long steep hills although the ramp up on PAS 2 is still too aggressive.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yes on a non technical steep hill it is great, but if you are riding rooted, rutted and technical steep short singletrack rails, its very annoying. Its a compromise on long steep hills, i switch to 5 PAS levels rather 9 PAS levels. This helps on the long steep hills although the ramp up on PAS 2 is still too aggressive.

I‘m running 46.7 on 52V and ride a lot of technical steep single track. I‘ve got used to the ramp up and I’ve got to say that the bike handles as good as my Bosch and Brose motored friends in the same tracks. In some ways you can use that punchiness to get up steps and such like that they seem to have no chance of getting up. Technically at 52V it should be worse but the biggest gain in taming a very peaky motor has been both going to 52V and the use of 155mm cranks, the two changes have made a good motor even better.

Would I want to change things, yes and no, my FAZUA motor can be changed virtually at my discretion on every level, it’s good really good to be able to that. Would I get rid of my M600, no it’s good in its place, bad that I can’t change the levels and ramp up and down at my discretion. I’m hoping the new BEEST Pro will be able to that, until then I’m relatively happy.

 

[Dado]

Hello ebikers.

K1 eBikes has designed small, portable and simple K1 CAN Monitor & Speed Unlocker - no need computer or mess with BESST. Works ONLY with Bafang motors with CAN bus (green connector to display with "house" shape 5 pin connector).

For more info check the following link:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31...

How to unlock speed:
https://youtu.be/6z3TzEqNWsQ

If you interested, send an email to [email protected], will answer any questions and will send user manual.
K1 CAN Monitor is determined for testing purpose only and is not waterproof.

 

[PerseverantOne]

I was primarily talking about the M510, no doubt there's an M610 on the way.

Rapid obsolescence is one of the risks when buying a non-mainstream solution, particularly of Chinese origin and particularly in a field that is undergoing a huge upsurge in both popularity and progress. It's unfortunate that a more open source ethos doesn't tend to come with such products, but great that such things also tend to attract people with a more techy mindset, who are happy to tear them to pieces in the pursuit of making them better,or in my case, breaking them...!

Actually the company FLX just released a EmTB with what they call the Bafang M610 uses 750watrs continuous and 1000watt peak. Plus their newest release is supsr cheap for the parts.

 

[PerseverantOne]

This question is for m600 riders with a lot of miles on that motor.

How reliable is it in practice? For the sake of the question set aside any water intrusion issues. I can solve for those.

I'd like to know in a general sense if the m600 generally works as advertised or if around some milage point they tend to have internal failures.

Any insight would be helpful. Im trying to justify a cheeb build with an m600.

Thanks in advance

Well our torque sensor went within the first 150miles after we rebuilt the m600 and replaced the bad torque sensor. Not a single problem. Only issue is the manual wheelies. Coming from dirtbike world, its hard to get my Luna X2 up on the rear wheel. Tbh if i could do it all over, i'd buy a bike with ultra bagang motor, or id go with Bosch abs driven bike like the Whyte 180RS.
Much more reliable andna difference in how the power is transferred to the ground. Bosch is better, but just a little under powered for that top end.

 

[temon10]

Well our torque sensor went within the first 150miles after we rebuilt the m600 and replaced the bad torque sensor. Not a single problem. Only issue is the manual wheelies. Coming from dirtbike world, its hard to get my Luna X2 up on the rear wheel. Tbh if i could do it all over, i'd buy a bike with ultra bagang motor, or id go with Bosch abs driven bike like the Whyte 180RS.
Much more reliable andna difference in how the power is transferred to the ground. Bosch is better, but just a little under powered for that top end.

bad torque sensor cause no assist from motor when pedalling?

 

[TeoElFeo]

Actually the company FLX just released a EmTB with what they call the Bafang M610 uses 750watrs continuous and 1000watt peak. Plus their newest release is supsr cheap for the parts.

This is very interesting! Still no information on bafang m610 on the official website. This would however be s very desirable upgrade..

 

[casainho]

I need a M500 motor for development. Does anyone have a used one to sell?

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Since the Bafang is keep launching new motor models and not updating the firmware of previous recent models, like M500 and M600, I really think the best route is to go with VESC and forget about developing firmware for their original motor controllers!! For now I will try to go DIY, using VESC outside of my M500, but later maybe someone want to design, build, test and sell custom motor controllers based on VESC and for this Bafang motors.

Example of VESC EBike motor controller: Flipsky VESC 75100 EBike controller: 100€, 75V 100A, CAN and UART communication.

Advantages:
- BEST motor controller out there, OpenSource, small and powerful
- only 1 minute to make the inital motor auto detection setup, resulting in the best motor performance and silence out there!!
- VESC EBike application can be developed in high level scripting language
- powerful mobile app (also for PC and RaspberryPI), with high level scripting language for custom application
- display available to buy on shops, OpenSource (although for ESkates but easy to adapt for EBikes)
- there are A LOT of experienced users / developers of VESC
- powerful advanced algorithm for sensorless at motor 0 speed meaning no hall sensors needed
- cheaper than a Bafang original motor controller

Disadvantages:
- DIY solution

Video:

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I connected an old VESC controller to the 48V TSDZ2 motor (I do not have yet a Bafang motor for development). VESC software were able to detect the motor characteristics:



I was tweaking the sensorless HFI silent mode and it seems to work well. I tried to block with pliers the motor shaft and I could feel the torque, although I did not tested it on the real EBike. I also did not connect the hall sensors as I am only interested on the sensorless mode, as I plan to run the Bafang motor in sensorless mode.



On this short video, you can see the motor running. Note that the motor is very silent but because it was attached on the metal vice, the noise was kind of amplified:




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I am thinking in using the VESC only for the motor control. Then, use a custom DIY board where every will be connected: brake sensors; throttle; torque sensor. This board will also connect to VESC using UART_0 and connect to the display using UART_1 (Easy DIY display).

This board will use the NRF52840 microcontroller (the same used on the Easy DIY display) and the firmware will be developed in Pyhton. This board will basically implement the EBike aplication: reading the various sensors and output commands to the motor controller, like setting the motor current and motor speed. It will also send data to the display and receive data for the user configurations done on the display.

This board with the EBike application, will be easy and fast to be reused on other devices like my TSDZ2 EBike motor controllers. I will also use it to my Xiaomi EScooter.

I already bought the Flipsky 75100 VESC motor controller to use on development and to install on the final, on my EBike with M500 and 52V battery. Currently, I have a Flipsky VESC 4.2 but it do not support voltages like 48 or 52V, only lower. I also have the NRF52840 board and I am starting the development of the EBike app in Pyhton.

 

[Mida]

I have this one:

Bafang M600 Motor Controller - Version 3.2

Compatible with these FLX Electric bikes and Electric Mountain bikes: Roadster (SE) Step-Through (1.0 & 2.0) Trail (F4, F5, & SE)

flx.bike

So far, so good, 1.1kW in peak. You only need to swap two wires on connector or make an adapter with plugs.

You may also add one shunt resitor then force M600 18A firmware upload - it also should work.

Hi,
Do you know where FLX.bike sends its goods?

I wanted to order this controller, but it can't be sent to the Czech Republic...
I would have it forwarded from one of the countries that FLX ships to...

 

[Mabman]

Try here:

Search results for: 'M600 Motor Controller' BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Greenbikekit is a professional electric bike kit manufacturer, e-bike battery building, Bafang BBS kit, Bafang m620 kit, Bafang M600 kit, Bafang M500 motor, Bafang M510, Bafang G330, Bafang M400, Bafang motor repair parts distributor, bafang M400 controller, Bafang M600 /M400 /M620 torque...

www.greenbikekit.com

 

[Kyokushin]

Hi,
Do you know where FLX.bike sends its goods?

I wanted to order this controller, but it can't be sent to the Czech Republic...
I would have it forwarded from one of the countries that FLX ships to...

you may try myus.com, i used their services once, however i see Czechia on FLX list.