YT Decoy first ride review: A brilliant ebike with outstanding performance

[comtn]

OK thanks for the replies. I've got a 18 levo and would like something more enduroish to handle the chunky downhills in Colorado.

 

[R120]

For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

 

[Andy A]

For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

What setting do you have trail set to? Mine is on medium and boost is set high but I don'r often use boost and actually I don't use trail much at all maybe I should

 

[R120]

Pretty sure it’s on the lowest setting, but I haven’t fiddled with the settings for ages.

I actually find I ride to the trials in Eco, then use Trail on the trail if that makes sense.

I like the extra power as you can put in half a crank to get a bit more speed coming in and out of features.

For me the main difference between Eco and Trail, especially after the latest software update which seems to have made Eco a bit more responsive to cadence, is that when in Eco you have to ride the bike like you would a normal bike in terms of gear choice, I.e you have to be in the right gear and the motor won’t compensate if you are not, whereas in Trail you can power up and over things if you are not in the right gear, and can pretty much ride in the middle of the cassette

 

[Andy A]

Pretty sure it’s on the lowest setting, but I haven’t fiddled with the settings for ages.

I actually find I ride to the trials in Eco, then use Trail on the trail if that makes sense.

I like the extra power as you can put in half a crank to get a bit more speed coming in and out of features.

For me the main difference between Eco and Trail, especially after the latest software update which seems to have made Eco a bit more responsive to cadence, is that when in Eco you have to ride the bike like you would a normal bike in terms of gear choice, I.e you have to be in the right gear and the motor won’t compensate if you are not, whereas in Trail you can power up and over things if you are not in the right gear, and can pretty much ride in the middle of the cassette

Out of interest what is the latest software update on the app I think mine says it's version 3.3.3 if that makes sense I am nervous about updating it or should I just update it whenever it says a new one is available?

 

[2unfit2ride]

I rarely use boost on the shimano, normally eco & then trail when I'm exhausted, it's more natural feeling & a few of my (non ebike)mates have tried the bike in eco & were surprised by the lack of support, even in trail it didn't match there perceived perceptions of an ebike, only in boost did it deliver the power they thought an ebike would so I totally agree with R120

 

[comtn]

For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

I come from a moto background so I put my levo in turbo full time. Is the shimano boost mode comparable to the levo or more on/off?

 

[R120]

Afraid ic ant answer that as haven't really put any time in on boost mode on a Brose. I like the motor to be only giving me just enough assistance, I dont like riding when it feels artificial.

 

[stiv674]

The brose 1.3 motor is similar to the shimano in boost/turbo but maybe not quite so on and off.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Is the shimano boost mode comparable to the levo or more on/off?

It's definitely more on/off than Turbo on the Levo. The Brose is very smooth in delivery, even in Turbo. Shimano also has a more aggressive overrun. It's not necessarily bad, its just different.

 

[stiv674]

Is that the new 2.1 motor? How does it compare to the 1.3?

 

[R120]

If you ride mainly in boost, then the tunability of the Brose will be an advantage, as I believe aside from the power you assign to the mode, you can tune the delay in the motor kicking in - the Shimano has a slight delay before the motor kicks in, in all modes, but this is most noticeable in boost.

 

[comtn]

The E8000 seems to be a little long the tooth. They must have an updated model coming out any day I would think?

If you wait it out the next year's YT should have 700w battery and updated shimano motor (assuming there is one on the horizon)

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Can anyone speak to the differences between a brose levo motor and the shimano e8000. It looks like the shimano motor has less torque. Is it a big enough difference to be a deal breaker?

Shimano motor is noisy as. Friends on a normal bike said they didn't want to ride with me as it was so noisy. The brose they didn't notice. I can't take the Shimano motor seriously. It's so noisy it detracts from riding the bike and terrain. It's one whiny bitch.

 

[Nasty Nick]

Ok so i’ve been in touch with YT.
When asking the level of suspension on the pro level, they came back and said it was elite with a grip2 damper. On questioning this (as photo shows grip not grip2) they reconfirmed:

Michael Lifka (YT Industries)
Apr 2, 17:39 CEST
Hello Richard,

I'm definitely sure the fork has Grip2.
The photos may differ because sometimes we may not have all original components in stock at the time the photos are taken.
Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement
Michael Lifka

I wrote YT USA last night. I got a very different answer.

I then read your post so I called Fox for clarification. The rep said they don’t have an E specific Performance Elite, only a Performance model with a GRIP and a Factory with a GRIP2. I suggested they look at the product photos on YTs website showing an specific performance elite and the rep said it must be an OEM only and can’t tell me any specific about it without a product number.

 

[Nasty Nick]

The E8000 seems to be a little long the tooth. They must have an updated model coming out any day I would think?

If you wait it out the next year's YT should have 700w battery and updated shimano motor (assuming there is one on the horizon)

Shimano doesn’t do anything fast.

 

[Jamsxr]

The fact the E8000 offers firmware updates and YT’s battery has an upgrade path is a really attractive proposition. You don’t need any more power unless you weight a ton.

Seems like some people have different experiences with the E8000 depending on the tune and firmware version. The latest reviews suggest that it’s the most progressive motor available in trail mode, but still a little on/off in boost.

I wonder if future Shimano motors will have the same form factor so you could retrofit into bikes with older motors? That would be a pretty compelling approach, and a sure way of selling more hardware for them.

 

[Richt20000]

Shimano motor is more stop/start jerky when you start/stop peddling too. Feels like an on/off switch where as the kenevo feels more smooth. Id agree that peak power feels slightly stronger on brose.

Shimano sounds like a really loud tamyia radio controlled car compared to the silent (v1.3) brose motor

 

[Jamsxr]

Good review here...

YT Decoy CF Pro Race First Ride Review, a gravity fuelled e-MTB that's not the JeffsE - Singletrack Charged

Cool to see how much thought has gone into the layout to enable easier maintenance, and even the battery connector position/fastening to ensure durability.

It also states it feels like the most powerful E8000 that’s been tested and battery life has been greatly improved.

 

[Andy A]

I have nothing to compare the Shimano to as it's my first ebike but to me it isn't noisy yes there is a slight noise but nothing more than that and it has more than enough power which I think is delivered really well, but as I said I am new to this world so what do I know, but I really like it

 

[Doomanic]

I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch!

 

[davosaurusrex]

Back on the Decoy specifically if I was buying I think I'd go for the base model. Would you like to know why? No? Well too bad!

E13 parts - don't like them, would rather have good old mehanical Shimano. Been really impressed with the DT Swiss M1900 wheels on my Vitus (other than the undersized font hub bearings wearing quickly) so would rather have them. Also can't see the point of Di2 on an MTB (although have used it on the road and love it), just seems like more expensive stuff to go wrong for little benefit

Suspension - with the lower price I'd put a 2019 170mm air shaft in the Yari and might change the damper later. The rear shock is a bit of a let down but I believe the suspension curve is pretty progressive so I'd sell the Monarch new and put on a coil, can often pick up the Super Deluxe coils at a good price

Swingarm - no issue with the carbon main frame and has a lot of advantages in terms of shape manipulation but carbon swing arms on a mountain bike just seem really vulnerable to wear and damage. Maybe irrational?

If I was to do it I'd change the bars, stem and saddle from the Vitus, also my XT cranks, mech and shifter, because XT. Probably the E8000 display too as I like to see the mode from the colour at a glance. Would take a view on the swapping the Reverb and Guide RE brakes over

However, I'm not in a position to change so with an eye to the future;

Motor - I'm really happy with my E-Sommet so would rather wait for the next gen Shimano unit, whether that's a year or two away. I would like mine to be quieter!

Battery - would rather wait for the bigger unit (weight dependent). Might not be necessary if the real world performance of the 540 lives up to the promise showed in the release reviews?

That's my musings on it anyway

 

[R120]

One of the main things about the Shimano motor is that they have designed it to be upgraded over time by the user via software updates - how the E8000 behaves now vs the original software is very different.

For me I went with it because I liked the way it rode the best ( caveated by the fact the Brose Mag wasn't around at that time), and I think the user interface options are the best out there in terms of controllers and displays, and I really like the fact pretty much all the steps components are interchangeable, making it easy to get a set up you like - no display and no handlebar remote - you can go down that route, or you can go the other way and have a big display and a multifunction handlebar remote.

I also think the motor itself is the most reliable on the market, and for me Shimano remain the kings of quality when it come to components generally.

I am very tempted by the YT, but I also think we are going to be several significant bike launches over the next year, and of course we are expecting a new Bosch motor to be launched soon too.

We are also going to be seeing bikes coming out with the new Panasonic, Polini, and Continental motors, all of which are lite and powerful.

 

[Gary]

I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch!

AFAIC motors need noise. (even automatic leccy cars)

Try riding moto trials with headphones on and music completely drowning out the revs.
hearing the revs aids control. not hearing them hinders it.
same thing (only subtler) with an Eeb
I want to hear those revs. Both when descending or riding tecchnical terrain in a high assistance mode and for indication of when to ensure a light gear change

 

[Fivetones]

That’s an interesting point Gary. I can’t drive a car with headphones on either for that reason.

 

[R120]

Thta is actually a very interesting point Gary, hadn't really thought about it before but doing so now realise its omehting I do out riding

 

[Doomanic]

I never said it was a bad thing, or a good one for that matter, but Bosch have long been slated for having the noisiest motors and that no longer seems to be the case. I don’t care if the motor I’m using is making a racket or not, however lots of other users do.

 

[Fivetones]

@Doomanic I wonder if that is partly due to the preoccupation of people’s attitudes to eMTB? (Cheating, old, etc)

 

[Doomanic]

Quite possibly.

I should add I do listen out for mine making horrible noises as a warning of impending bearing failure.

 

[Gary]

Shimano motor is more stop/start jerky when you start/stop peddling too. Feels like an on/off switch where as the kenevo feels more smooth.

Thought the exact opposite the last time i rode a kenevo
Not being able to see the mode probably didn't help

Are you sure the shimano you're talking about wasn't running older firmware?
it's very smooth at transitioning now. especially around the speed cut off