Yamaha YPJ-YZ E

[Eddy Current]

What do you expect from this ebike? Inverted fork, downtube and geometry speaks by itself, yamaha motor by yamaha motors ... and I can’t say any more, is all the info has been released till now

 

[Fivetones]

So, I know I talk about lighter bikes all the time but I like what they’ve done with this. The split tube looks like a nice way forward to keep the strength with the battery embedded in the down.

 

[Doomanic]

Finally, here's a bunch of real-life photos of that Yamaha E-bike - MBR

 

[Eddy Current]

And just keep in my mind, the technological and financial muscle of Yamaha is way beyond than any bike manufacturer, and the fact they can work with his own motor, maybe is a brand new one, not any of the PW series. If still a PW, it will be improved even better than the Giant tune.

Gentleman’s, all the ingredients here leads to a very tasty bite and the cheff is a experienced one

 

[dochabanero]

Hope it makes it in to production as it stands. Love the frame, the USD fork, paintwork. Would be nice to see them out on the trails

 

[MattyB]

And just keep in my mind, the technological and financial muscle of Yamaha is way beyond than any bike manufacturer, and the fact they can work with his own motor, maybe is a brand new one, not any of the PW series. If still a PW, it will be improved even better than the Giant tune.

Gentleman’s, all the ingredients here leads to a very tasty bite and the cheff is a experienced one

In the MBR article they confirmed it was a PW-X2.

 

[Al Boneta]

It’s a great looking bike, I even like the pink parts. I wasn’t impressed with the performance of the PWX motor in the Giants and Haibikes I sold in my shop, but it’s a personal preference thing for me.
As for the rest of Yamaha line it was pretty weak up until this bike.
I am also not too keen on the motorcycle companies taking a bite out of my bottom line. Especially after the last 3 years of telling people that these bikes aren’t motorcycles.
Still as much I like the way this one looks, it would be cool to see them do one in a Kenny Roberts theme

 

[Rusty]

I am really trying not to barf when I look at this.

Really trying.

While there are a few design areas I like there are more I don't. First up the colors are nasty.
The brushed allow with blue would be acceptable but the pink is just garish fugly ... and don't get me started on the graphics
I am undecided on the split top tube. I did ride a DH bike like that maybe 15 or so years ago and I did not like the width. This does look narrower so probably not an issue. Never have been a fan of USD forks on MX bikes and would need to ride these to comment. The coating on the legs is I think a design cue from MX bikes and would not look nice with Kashima coated staunchions. However, if they are Kayabas it would be nice to see another player in the suspension field. If they become a production item I can maybe hit up my old factory support tech for some unobtanium & at least get some trick settings. Can't tell exactly what the shock is, but if Kayaba was doing the forks they would want the rear as well.

I agree with @Al Boneta - love to see this in a KR theme.

 

[Al Boneta]

And just keep in my mind, the technological and financial muscle of Yamaha is way beyond than any bike manufacturer, and the fact they can work with his own motor, maybe is a brand new one, not any of the PW series. If still a PW, it will be improved even better than the Giant tune.

Gentleman’s, all the ingredients here leads to a very tasty bite and the cheff is a experienced one

If they have such technological and financial muscle beyond what any bike company has, then why I are they using a run of the mill Horst-link suspension design with an off the shelf Fox DPX2 rear shock?
I think the answer is just because they have the money to invest, doesn’t mean they will.
The return on investment wouldn’t be very much even if they only spent one million dollars on development. You would have to sell over 10000 units before you would break even.
Unfortunately the only companies doing that kind of volume are Specialized and Trek.
Yamaha makes more money selling pianos than dirt bikes and Emtbs are such a niche market
Bosch is a company twice the size of Yamaha and the fact that they don’t make a complete bicycle should tell you something.

 

[Eddy Current]

If they have such technological and financial muscle beyond what any bike company has, then why I are they using a run of the mill Horst-link suspension design with an off the shelf Fox DPX2 rear shock?
I think the answer is just because they have the money to invest, doesn’t mean they will.
The return on investment wouldn’t be very much even if they only spent one million dollars on development. You would have to sell over 10000 units before you would break even.
Unfortunately the only companies doing that kind of volume are Specialized and Trek.
Yamaha makes more money selling pianos than dirt bikes and Emtbs are such a niche market
Bosch is a company twice the size of Yamaha and the fact that they don’t make a complete bicycle should tell you something.

What rear suspension you suggest they will run? Is still a bike, plus I don’t say they are about developed the ultimate ebike i say they can make it if they want (or a very serious ebike) ... why Bosch can’t do it? Because Bosch is not a bike factriy, Yamaha is, they develop 1000 cc motorbikes, an emtb? They laugh at it

However I was just theoring but by the way the ebike looks seems that at least take their time developing his own frame, take care on a good weight distribution and not a chinese frame shared by by others brands that I won’t name and then put his motor and voila! Yamaha ebike!

I think they show interest and involving some of their technology ... what about weldings ? Did you see it? What about alloys? What about kinematics simulators? We are talking about people with a MotoGP team ...

Ebikes is a niche now, numbers keep growing and growing. Maybe Yamaha is interested, from pianos to motorbikes was way more a risky bet ... this shouldn’t be a big deal

 

[Rusty]

We are talking about people with a MotoGP team ...

And a seriously shit MotoGP bike it is this year. Not that last year or the year before were much better.
You can praise Yamaha all you like, but the original Monoshock was crap & did not improve until they followed the rest and went to a linkage with a vertical mounted shock. I won't delve into the many, MANY street bikes that were sub standard. Many years later they built a YZF450 that retired a few riders due to bad design.

I look at this concept bike and see both good and bad. It will be interesting if they follow through with it as it will either become a gold-mine for Yamaha or their entry will start to push bicycle component prices down to realistic levels.

 

[Al Boneta]

What rear suspension you suggest they will run? Is still a bike, plus I don’t say they are about developed the ultimate ebike i say they can make it if they want (or a very serious ebike) ... why Bosch can’t do it? Because Bosch is not a bike factriy, Yamaha is, they develop 1000 cc motorbikes, an emtb? They laugh at it

However I was just theoring but by the way the ebike looks seems that at least take their time developing his own frame, take care on a good weight distribution and not a chinese frame shared by by others brands that I won’t name and then put his motor and voila! Yamaha ebike!

I think they show interest and involving some of their technology ... what about melding? Did you see it? What about alloys? What about kinematics simulators? We are talking about people with a MotoGP team ...

Ebikes is a niche now, numbers keep growing and growing.

I would have thought a $48 billion company would come up something more innovative than the 25 year old Horst-Link design.

If Yamaha made a diswasher Bosch would laugh at it.
If Honda made a guitar, Yamaha would laugh at it.
Yamaha made a car and Honda laughed at it.
Bosch is not a vehicle company? They make most of the components that go in a vehicle. Because Bosch realized there’s more money to made making the parts that go in a car than the complete car.
Just like Shimano and Sram realized there’s more money to be made making the components of a bicycle than an entire bicycle.
It’s similar to the Microsoft business model, make the operating system and not the computer it runs on.
Of course maybe you think Yamaha could be like the Apple of Emtbs, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Because they are going going build the bike in Taiwan or China, not Japan.
As for these Alloys you speak of, why would they spend money developing special alloys when carbon fiber exists?
Kinematics simulators? You know who else has this technology? Every bike company that designs their own frames.
Let’s not forget about Yamaha’ current Emtb design:

Well, now we know where your love of external batteries comes from

Honda built a bike over a decade ago without a motor that has more innovations than that Yamaha prototype

 

[Eddy Current]

And a seriously shit MotoGP bike it is this year. Not that last year or the year before were much better.
You can praise Yamaha all you like, but the original Monoshock was crap & did not improve until they followed the rest and went to a linkage with a vertical mounted shock. I won't delve into the many, MANY street bikes that were sub standard. Many years later they built a YZF450 that retired a few riders due to bad design.

I look at this concept bike and see both good and bad. It will be interesting if they follow through with it as it will either become a gold-mine for Yamaha or their entry will start to push bicycle component prices down to realistic levels.

So when Yamaha was winning all does it mean Honda, as a factory, was crap?

Are any brand whatever they built failure free?

Again men, if Yamaha is determined to do one of the best ebikes with little effort they can achieve it, if they want to do the best ebike, they will do. No bike manufacturers is close to Yamaha, financial and technology speaking

This a matter of what they decided to do, no what they able to do

 

[Eddy Current]

I would have thought a $48 billion company would come up something more innovative than the 25 year old Horst-Link design.

If Yamaha made a diswasher Bosch would laugh at it.
If Honda made a guitar, Yamaha would laugh at it.
Yamaha made a car and Honda laughed at it.
Bosch is not a vehicle company? They make most of the components that go in a vehicle. Because Bosch realized there’s more money to made making the parts that go in a car than the complete car.
Just like Shimano and Sram realized there’s more money to be made making the components of a bicycle than an entire bicycle.
It’s similar to the Microsoft business model, make the operating system and not the computer it runs on.
Of course maybe you think Yamaha could be like the Apple of Emtbs, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Because they are going going build the bike in Taiwan or China, not Japan.
As for these Alloys you speak of, why would they spend money developing special alloys when carbon fiber exists?
Kinematics simulators? You know who else has this technology? Every bike company that designs their own frames.
Let’s not forget about Yamaha’ current Emtb design:
View attachment 20773
Well, now we know where your love of external batteries comes from

Listen, Specialized, Trek etc softwares is probably nowhere close of what Yamaha have. Not their engineers, not is bank account, not absolutely nothing.

Yamaha made motorbikes that are over 1000 times more sofisticated than any ebike, not to mention that they has his own motor or they can work with t1000 carbon fiber wich is banned in China where all the frames are made it.

For third time if Yamaha puts is whole artillery and wants to bring the best ebike, they will made Levos S works look like a child bike. Period.

stop kidding guys, those people built the things that built things ...

 

[Al Boneta]

Listen, Specialized, Trek etc softwares is probably nowhere close of what Yamaha have. Not their engineers, not is bank account, not absolutely nothing.

Yamaha made motorbikes that are over 1000 times more sofisticated than any ebike, not to mention that they has his own motor or they can work with t1000 carbon fiber wich is banned in China where all the frames are made it.

For third time if Yamaha puts is whole artillery and wants to bring the best ebike, they will made Levos S works look like a child bike. Period.

stop kidding guys, those people built the things that built things ...

Yes you have said it 3 times now, but I have to keep coming back to this photograph of what is a 2020 Yamaha Emtb

Giant uses a Yamaha motor and it blows this bike away.
I would rather ride a Husqvarna Emtb with an E8000 Motor over that Yamaha. And Husqvarna had nothing to do with that bike other than rented out their name
Right now in the motorcycle world Yamaha is not doing well in sales or in competition. Surely they could use the things they built to build things to make better products?
Maybe it comes back around to my main point, right now there is not enough return on investment.

 

[Eddy Current]

Im not talking about Yamaha real offers I’m talking what they can offer, if they want.

If that bike never see the light, if then is crap, if then is 20k ... is another story, but I’m thinking positive not negative, that’s all.

My god, looks like a superb brand like Yamaha gets into emtb with a new model is bad news or what? Just one trick of Yamaha on that ebike and it’s going to be a reference

 

[Al Boneta]

Im not talking about Yamaha real offers I’m talking what they can offer, if they want.

If that bike never see the light, if then is crap, if then is 20k ... is another story, but I’m thinking positive not negative, that’s all.

My god, looks like a superb brand like Yamaha gets into emtb with a new model is bad news or what? Just one trick of Yamaha on that ebike and it’s going to be a reference

I actually like bike, but it’s nothing new or revolutionary. You keep going on about what they “could” do. Well they haven’t done it with this bike, or any of their other Ebikes.
Short of developing some new crazy lightweight motor or battery, which they haven’t done with this bike, I don’t see them bringing anything all that new or noteworthy.

 

[Rusty]

So when Yamaha was winning all does it mean Honda, as a factory, was crap?

More like Yamaha got lucky. As the old saying goes, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now an then.
I haven't had a close relationship with Yamaha and only raced a couple of their products but i have seen Honda beat them back time and time again. Back in the days of the 125/250/350/500cc 2 stroke road racers Yamaha was king - then they dropped back into the fold. MX wise they have been up and down - mostly down unless they had a rider head and shoulders above the rest. In the 500cc class they ran a crappy air-cooled bike a couple seasons against the Honda and Kawasaki water-cooled bikes then folded their effort.

Over the years Yamaha has excelled at taking someone else's ideas and refining them but have rarely come up with something earth shattering. I can understand you being a fan - hell, I was still a Suzuki rider at hart even when Honda was paying my bills & to be fair, Suzuki has been fairly ordinary for years.

 

[Eddy Current]

More like Yamaha got lucky. As the old saying goes, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now an then.
I haven't had a close relationship with Yamaha and only raced a couple of their products but i have seen Honda beat them back time and time again. Back in the days of the 125/250/350/500cc 2 stroke road racers Yamaha was king - then they dropped back into the fold. MX wise they have been up and down - mostly down unless they had a rider head and shoulders above the rest. In the 500cc class they ran a crappy air-cooled bike a couple seasons against the Honda and Kawasaki water-cooled bikes then folded their effort.

Over the years Yamaha has excelled at taking someone else's ideas and refining them but have rarely come up with something earth shattering. I can understand you being a fan - hell, I was still a Suzuki rider at hart even when Honda was paying my bills & to be fair, Suzuki has been fairly ordinary for years.

Even if they were lucky, you got to be there to win my friend. Back on the ebike, like I said seems they do more than put yamaha stickers and as I said I like to think in a positive way, I want to belive this is going be a very nice ebike. Ducati, Yamaha, they are all welcomed the more the better

 

[Fivetones]

Like Al and Rusty, colour me cynical. This is a moderately interesting design exercise done with the intention of just raising the profile of their current motor as the new Bosch gets going. I really don’t think it’s any more serious than that. And, on those terms, I’d say they’ve succeeded. We’re talking about it.

Aren’t most good MTBs developed by relatively small rider focussed companies? I personally mostly tend to shun big, mass production MTB companies as there‘s usually whiff of accountant about what’s produced (as interesting as Specialized, say, are it’s hard to deny this based on spec and price) but even these companies have riders in the units that design the bikes. If Yamaha was truly serious they’d show us this, not just a shouty concept. Maybe that’s next but until then it’s just PR.

 

[Rusty]

If Eddy Current was from Canada I would be wondering if he was related to our other Yamaha fan-dango.

 

[Eddy Current]

Time will tell gentlemans ... time will tell

 

[Pdoz]

Time will tell gentlemans ... time will tell

it already has. Yamaha has had decades of pedelectric experience yet they look at those 300,000 motors sold to giant, notice gravel bike sales aren't dropping off ....and have the brainwave of producing an egravel bike.
Electric bicycle sales soar as Giant projects 600,000 e-bike sales this year - Electrek

I'd really love to be wrong...an ebike version of the it200s ....or an it490 !!! Somehow, I suspect we'll be seeing an xt225

 

[DrStupid]

There is plenty to hope for, as most of us emtb users can agree. Although not all will.

The current crop of ebikes are great, but some persistent bike industry problems remain stubbornly entrenched.

I offer the humble derailleur as proof.

When I left mountain biking 25 years ago, I was mystified by the lack of progress with bicycle shifting systems. Today, I'm not naive enough to believe that an industry unable to improve something as obviously fecked up as a transmission with it parts outside the box, can best carry the ebike juggernaut forward.

I'll take any help I can get, even from the music store when required.

My granddaughters alto sax plays exactly how it's supposed too ...every time. My 12 speed ebikes... not so much.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yamaha made a car and Honda laughed at it.

I remember when Yamaha made a really cool car .. it was amazing ...

Yamaha OX99-11 - Wikipedia

Unfortunately, now I look at it and can only wonder what the hell I was drinking in the 90's ...

 

[DrStupid]

I remember when Yamaha made a really cool car .. it was amazing ...

Yamaha OX99-11 - Wikipedia

Unfortunately, now I look at it and can only wonder what the hell I was drinking in the 90's ...

I was drinking anything I could my hands on. I believe I called it um... more. Yes that's it, more.
I'll have more.
I cant remember that car.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I was drinking anything I could my hands on. I believe I called it um... more. Yes that's it, more.
I'll have more.
I cant remember that car.

I think I was on the same stuff .. maybe there was a bad year for "more" ?

I must have been blinded by the performance expectations .... (of the car, not "more").

 

[DrStupid]

I would have thought a $48 billion company would come up something more innovative than the 25 year old Horst-Link design.

If Yamaha made a diswasher Bosch would laugh at it.
If Honda made a guitar, Yamaha would laugh at it.
Yamaha made a car and Honda laughed at it.
Bosch is not a vehicle company? They make most of the components that go in a vehicle. Because Bosch realized there’s more money to made making the parts that go in a car than the complete car.
Just like Shimano and Sram realized there’s more money to be made making the components of a bicycle than an entire bicycle.
It’s similar to the Microsoft business model, make the operating system and not the computer it runs on.
Of course maybe you think Yamaha could be like the Apple of Emtbs, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Because they are going going build the bike in Taiwan or China, not Japan.
As for these Alloys you speak of, why would they spend money developing special alloys when carbon fiber exists?
Kinematics simulators? You know who else has this technology? Every bike company that designs their own frames.
Let’s not forget about Yamaha’ current Emtb design:
View attachment 20773
Well, now we know where your love of external batteries comes from

Honda built a bike over a decade ago without a motor that has more innovations than that Yamaha prototype
View attachment 20775

In the first thread on this ypj-yz, I posted what I was hoping for, an honest new motor with a real transmission. After seeing that the new yamaha lacks any real innovation, I've somewhat lost interest. My current forks work awesome, pricey but good enough to not need an inversion to fix. So what is this thing really?

 

[Al Boneta]

Worked on a Yamaha today, but it wasn’t a pedalic, but the special alloys are just a sign what is coming from the world’s biggest piano maker

 

[Al Boneta]

In the first thread on this ypj-yz, I posted what I was hoping for, an honest new motor with a real transmission. After seeing that the new yamaha lacks any real innovation, I've somewhat lost interest. My current forks work awesome, pricey but good enough to not need an inversion to fix. So what is this thing really?

That was the only point some of us angry old mountain bikers were trying to make.
Anytime a new bike comes out and the manufacturer is saying how it’s the best bike on the market, I have look at it with some skepticism.
As much as the new Levo was better than the old one, it wasn’t the second coming of August Ames.