Voima Sizing Questions/Views/Opinions

[Blownoutrides]

Quick and dirty Autocad geo diagram of a K3 below. Front center (and wheelbase) derived from stack/reach/head tube/etc.

Fork ATC clocks in at 606mm which is right on the money for a ZEB 190, so if the published 510mm reach is correct then this front center should be accurate.

K3 Wheelbase = 1337mm
K3 Front Center = 882mm

As a side note, with the exception of the BB drop, the k3 front geo is pretty similar to my 2022 XL Norco Range with a 180mm fork. Reach is the same, stack is slightly less, and the front center is almost identical. I guess the Voima Geo is not so wild after all.

Assuming we’ve correctly identified the incorrect front center number, Pole would do well to fix it on their geo chart - it almost put me off from buying the bike, and I’m betting I’m not alone.

 

[BigG]

K4 is gone from lineup? I hope temporarily.
At least Vikkela still has it listed.

 

[Blownoutrides]

K4 is gone from lineup? I hope temporarily.
At least Vikkela still has it listed.

As long as they have the cut file it’s not gone (I’m guessing).

 

[Bndit]

K4 is gone from lineup? I hope temporarily.
At least Vikkela still has it listed.

I talked with Pole last weekend at the bike festival and they said they’ll drop K4 from Voima lineup.

 

[JP-NZ]

Interesting over here in New Zealand Sponsored Pole rider Joe Nation is selling his Voima.. as shown here


What is interesting to me is he's on a K1 and is 178cm tall (I'd say most of this attributed to reach numbers)

 

[ebikerider]

I’m 189, ordered a K3 race ID frameset last night. I almost went K2 but decided it might be too much of a gamble. Can’t wait to get it! Not sure if I’ll put a Fox 40 or Zeb 190 on it. Maybe a mullet?

Hey mate, got your frame yet? Been thinking about ordering a K2/3 and wondered how the process has been so far? Have you chosen the correct size (assuming you've got the bike)?

 

[ebikerider]

Has anyone put a tape measure on the bike to confirm their claimed wheelbase and chainstay numbers? Their claimed numbers for front centre are off by about 30mm in the K2/3 size which is significant.

 

[BigG]

My K4 is about right, i measured 1370mm (claimed 1368 on geo chart), 2mm difference is probably to imperfect angle.
Chainstay is exactly 455 as claimed, my bike came with updated ID rear with bolt on brake mounts, old LED front if that matters.

 

[Murphius]

Has anyone put a tape measure on the bike to confirm their claimed wheelbase and chainstay numbers? Their claimed numbers for front centre are off by about 30mm in the K2/3 size which is significant.

Based on measurement by who? I will measure mine but highly doubt that statement is correct. Much more likely that someone measured incorrectly.

 

[ebikerider]

Based on measurement by who? I will measure mine but highly doubt that statement is correct. Much more likely that someone measured incorrectly.

Based on the numbers stated by Pole.

eg claimed size K2 wheelbase 1313mm chainstay 455mm therefore the front centre should be 858mm but they state 887mm.

 

[Blownoutrides]

@Rob Rides EMTB would you mind putting a tape on your bike?

I asked Leo and he said “the front center should walk with the reach” which I take to mean that the published wheelbase numbers should be more correct than the front center based on the geo plots I and others have done.

Was a bit surprised to see that Pole subsequently published a new geo chart to include the new K0 size that still holds the same front center / wheelbase discrepancy across the range.

Mine is on the way. I’ll put a tape on it when it arrives in a week or so if we haven’t heard by then.

 

[Murphius]

Based on the numbers stated by Pole.

eg claimed size K2 wheelbase 1313mm chainstay 455mm therefore the front centre should be 858mm but they state 887mm.

Interesting, I see your point.

 

[Lightme]

Hey mate, got your frame yet? Been thinking about ordering a K2/3 and wondered how the process has been so far? Have you chosen the correct size (assuming you've got the bike)?

No bike yet, it’s due mid next week. I’ll let you know!

 

[BigG]

Just got a confirmation from Chris from Pole that Voima in K4 is discontinued due to low order numbers and low interest. They say more people prefer shorter ride on Voima.
This doesn’t affect other bikes like Vikkela though. It’s just Voima specifically.

Makes me a bit sad because I like my K4.
On other hand makes me want to try a K3 ID with race motor even more lol.

 

[Blownoutrides]

Just got a confirmation from Chris from Pole that Voima in K4 is discontinued due to low order numbers and low interest. They say more people prefer shorter ride on Voima.
This doesn’t affect other bikes like Vikkela though. It’s just Voima specifically.

Makes me a bit sad because I like my K4.
On other hand makes me want to try a K3 ID with race motor even more lol.

The more I ride, the smaller I like my bikes. At 6’4”’ I’m still a bit worried about the K3 as I’m currently really keen on my analog bike with 497 reach / 847 front center / 450 chainstay.

K3 Voima is 510 reach / 888 front center / 455 chainstay. Relatively speaking, the Voima has shorter chainstays and a longer front center, which will tip the balance point rearward and potentially lighten the front wheel. Addition of battery may compensate somewhat, however.

In any event, frame set has shipped and I’ll know very soon LOL. Very stoked to finally ride this beast.

 

[ebikerider]

I'm 185cm and after much back and forth (on paper) between the K2 and K3 I've got a K2 on the way. I think the front centre and chainstay length is more balanced and I may need to push the seat rearwards for a little more cockpit room but I'm confident it's the right size. Looking forward to getting it!

 

[Suns_PSD]

Has anyone put a tape measure on the bike to confirm their claimed wheelbase and chainstay numbers? Their claimed numbers for front centre are off by about 30mm in the K2/3 size which is significant.

How are you measuring?

Are you using the same fork/ etc. that the spec is measured with (or at least very close)? Even something like swapping to a 27.5" rear wheel could dramatically alter this dimension.

Maybe you received the incorrect size?

It's pretty common for welded bikes to be off a few mm, however a machined bike literally has computer generated geo. It's not going to be off as long as the same components are used unless Leo put incorrect info into the program.

This statement: “the front center should walk with the reach” just means that adding 30mm of Reach (for instance) would also add 30mm to the WB.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Based on the numbers stated by Pole.

eg claimed size K2 wheelbase 1313mm chainstay 455mm therefore the front centre should be 858mm but they state 887mm.

Sounds like a data entry error.

 

[ebikerider]

How are you measuring?

Are you using the same fork/ etc. that the spec is measured with (or at least very close)? Even something like swapping to a 27.5" rear wheel could dramatically alter this dimension.

Maybe you received the incorrect size?

It's pretty common for welded bikes to be off a few mm, however a machined bike literally has computer generated geo. It's not going to be off as long as the same components are used unless Leo put incorrect info into the program.

This statement: “the front center should walk with the reach” just means that adding 30mm of Reach (for instance) would also add 30mm to the WB.

Just going off the numbers stated by Pole. I'll confirm when my bike arrives.

 

[Blownoutrides]

How are you measuring?

Are you using the same fork/ etc. that the spec is measured with (or at least very close)? Even something like swapping to a 27.5" rear wheel could dramatically alter this dimension.

Maybe you received the incorrect size?

It's pretty common for welded bikes to be off a few mm, however a machined bike literally has computer generated geo. It's not going to be off as long as the same components are used unless Leo put incorrect info into the program.

This statement: “the front center should walk with the reach” just means that adding 30mm of Reach (for instance) would also add 30mm to the WB.

Front Center and Rear Center (chain stay) should add up to wheelbase.

Pole previously had incorrect numbers in their Voima geo chart for front center, although rear center and wheelbase were correct. Seems they had accidentally transposed the K4 front center over to K3 and so forth (we are all human). They’ve corrected it now with the new chart that eliminates the K4 and adds the K0.

I was relieved to find that it was indeed a mistake, because I didn’t spot the HUGE (incorrect) front center number until after I’d ordered, which had me in a bit of a panic TBH.

Previous and current geo charts below in case you’re interested (nothing about the geo has changed, they’ve just corrected the front center number).

 

[Plummet]

Front Center and Rear Center (chain stay) should add up to wheelbase.

Pole previously had incorrect numbers in their Voima geo chart for front center, although rear center and wheelbase were correct. Seems they had accidentally transposed the K4 front center over to K3 and so forth (we are all human). They’ve corrected it now with the new chart that eliminates the K4 and adds the K0.

I was relieved to find that it was indeed a mistake, because I didn’t spot the HUGE (incorrect) front center number until after I’d ordered, which had me in a bit of a panic TBH.

Previous and current geo charts below in case you’re interested (nothing about the geo has changed, they’ve just corrected the front center number).

View attachment 114910

View attachment 114909

Interesting that K4 is gone and K0 is added....

Imo this means the market has said NO to poles longer reach designs.
From what I could see the line share of aggressive riders downsized from poles recommendation to one size below what their charts state.

Hehehe... Now the K1 I have ordered becomes a size m... which is the standard size that I ride.

 

[Alexbn921]

How are you measuring?

Are you using the same fork/ etc. that the spec is measured with (or at least very close)? Even something like swapping to a 27.5" rear wheel could dramatically alter this dimension.

Maybe you received the incorrect size?

It's pretty common for welded bikes to be off a few mm, however a machined bike literally has computer generated geo. It's not going to be off as long as the same components are used unless Leo put incorrect info into the program.

This statement: “the front center should walk with the reach” just means that adding 30mm of Reach (for instance) would also add 30mm to the WB.

Math nerd alert!

When you increase in frame size the head tube grows. The bottom of the head tube stays in the same place as the fork mounts to it, but the top of the head tube is where you measure reach. K0 to K2 adds 20mm of height and 50mm reach.
So sin(26.5°) = 0.4461978131 X 20mm = 8.92mm more wheelbase just from the headtube. 9mm+ 50mm = 59mm more front center.

Pole measures all reach at a virtual 135mm headtube (weird), so reach change should = front center change. Someone is being lazy and the actual numbers will have variance from the printed ones. K0 for instance "actually" has more reach at it's stated height and K2,K3 have less.

It's pretty normal for manufactures to fudge these numbers so everything looks good on paper. Stack doesn't calculate out quite right either.

My Kenevo randomly adds 5mm of reach depending on which chart Specialized prints.

 

[Plummet]

Math nerd alert!

When you increase in frame size the head tube grows. The bottom of the head tube stays in the same place as the fork mounts to it, but the top of the head tube is where you measure reach. K0 to K2 adds 20mm of height and 50mm reach.
So sin(26.5°) = 0.4461978131 X 20mm = 8.92mm more wheelbase just from the headtube. 9mm+ 50mm = 59mm more front center.

Pole measures all reach at a virtual 135mm headtube (weird), so reach change should = front center change. Someone is being lazy and the actual numbers will have variance from the printed ones. K0 for instance "actually" has more reach at it's stated height and K2,K3 have less.

It's pretty normal for manufactures to fudge these numbers so everything looks good on paper. Stack doesn't calculate out quite right either.

My Kenevo randomly adds 5mm of reach depending on which chart Specialized prints.

How do you know Pole measures reach at a virtual 135 head tube? I can't see that info any where.

But there is some artistic license or racing tolerance going on with the chart numbers. K0 and K1 have the same stack or 635.. yet K0 has a 120mm head tube and K1 is 125mm.... argh!!!!

I guess most people (apart from the math/geo nerds) look at several geo measurements thats important to them and dont bother with the rest.

I'm a numbers slut so most of the numbers are important to me.

 

[Alexbn921]

It's right on the reach header in the geo chart.

 

[Plummet]

View attachment 114920
It's right on the reach header in the geo chart.

ahahaha... Right in front of my eyes....

 

[Blownoutrides]

Math nerd alert!

When you increase in frame size the head tube grows. The bottom of the head tube stays in the same place as the fork mounts to it, but the top of the head tube is where you measure reach. K0 to K2 adds 20mm of height and 50mm reach.
So sin(26.5°) = 0.4461978131 X 20mm = 8.92mm more wheelbase just from the headtube. 9mm+ 50mm = 59mm more front center.

Pole measures all reach at a virtual 135mm headtube (weird), so reach change should = front center change. Someone is being lazy and the actual numbers will have variance from the printed ones. K0 for instance "actually" has more reach at it's stated height and K2,K3 have less.

It's pretty normal for manufactures to fudge these numbers so everything looks good on paper. Stack doesn't calculate out quite right either.

My Kenevo randomly adds 5mm of reach depending on which chart Specialized prints.

You kinda have to be a math nerd these days since you can’t really test ride bikes apart from random demo days. It does bug me when brands can’t be bothered to post correct geo - it’s all we really have to go on. Sometimes it’s an understandable goof, other times there’s some fudging going on which is super annoying.

 

[Ou812]

I’m planning to order a frame once I clear out some of my amish bikes, I was going to order the K1 because it was the smallest size. At 5’6 I typically ride smalls in most bikes, my Levo is a S2 and I tend to prefer around a 430-435 reach. Now I see the K0 size with my preferred reach but the top tube is extremely short. Should I stick to the K1 or go with the K0?

 

[Plummet]

I’m planning to order a frame once I clear out some of my amish bikes, I was going to order the K1 because it was the smallest size. At 5’6 I typically ride smalls in most bikes, my Levo is a S2 and I tend to prefer around a 430-435 reach. Now I see the K0 size with my preferred reach but the top tube is extremely short. Should I stick to the K1 or go with the K0?

I went through the same battle, as do most Voima buyers. My decision was to stick to the reach dimensions that I like and withstand the shorter TT. That appears to a common trend, particularly from descent orientated riders.

PS, I'm 5'11 and getting a K1.

At 5'6 you are firmly in the K0 size.

 

[Blownoutrides]

Interesting that K4 is gone and K0 is added....

Imo this means the market has said NO to poles longer reach designs.
From what I could see the line share of aggressive riders downsized from poles recommendation to one size below what their charts state.

View attachment 114911


Hehehe... Now the K1 I have ordered becomes a size m... which is the standard size that I ride.

Personally hoping we’ve reached the end of the longer and longer reach (and Front Center) trend. There’s a balance between chainstay and FC, and at a certain point the weight is just too far back and the front end starts to get light in corners and understeer.

There’s also the reality that a lot of trails just aren’t built for limos. Tight corners are an obvious one, but another challenge for extra long bikes is being able to get both wheels on the transition of a jump - if wheelbase is too long it’s really hard not to get bucked.

Bringing this back to the Voima, it’s good that it pairs it’s longer front centers with a long 455mm chainstay, but I think that was pretty clearly designed around the K2 size and should technically grow proportionally for K3.

On that note, just got my K3 built up and I’m measuring front center at 880mm with a 190 Zeb. That’s 8mm shorter than the most recent geo chart (and I’m definitely not mad about it).

 

[Ou812]

I went through the same battle, as do most Voima buyers. My decision was to stick to the reach dimensions that I like and withstand the shorter TT. That appears to a common trend, particularly from descent orientated riders.

PS, I'm 5'11 and getting a K1.

At 5'6 you are firmly in the K0 size.

Yeah, that’s the direction I was leaning. I sold my DH bike today so that’s one down. I’ll more than likely pull all the components off one bike to use on the Vioma so I’d be running a 50mm stem anyway. That will give me some length back in the TT.