My Zeron has no clicks on the compression side at all. Don't remember if I tried adjusting rebound. Didn't ride a centimeter on it, swapped to a 170mm Zeb immediately. Only did like 200 meters on the street to make sure the electrics worked. Front brake was already off since I'm swapping the brakes to Saint but didn't have all the gubbins to do it yet. Rear Tektro was the weakest brake I've ever tried, granted with no break-in.
Vitus E-Mythique LT Enduro EMTB - Bargain of the year
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
Wonder if theres.a.bad batch of dampers ? Mine has nice clicks for the other turns. They just don't seem to do anything.
I think a jacket hood has more stopping power than the tektro without bedding in.
It will at least lock the back wheel on the loose when it's broken in, hence my rating it better than the front. I think the front would be fine on fire roads and trails, just as long as you can always look ahead a long way and never need to stop with any urgency.
The lowly base model VR comes with the Suntour Zeron 36 EQ. There's three versions of this with different damper specs and they've shipped it with the best version, the RC-PCS. On paper everything about this fork looks like it should actually perform pretty well so mine must be a faulty damper cartridge as I think it's possibly the worst fork I've ever ridden. Not slightly worse .. beyond words worst and I've ridden a few pretty crappy forks !
I just got to the bike again and I do have 31 clicks on the rebound end, seems like normal. Zero clicks on compression, I can turn the adjuster about 720 degrees and it tops and bottoms out pretty solidly.
I wanted to take a look at the wiring, but the chainring is in the way of the top motor mount. Do you reckon the lockring is like what Park Tool BBT-18 opens or something annoyingly close?
My typically strong Google-fu does not come up with any Bafang specific tool that looks like it.
Edit: I got the BBT-18 tool as all measurements indicated it should work. Will try it out tomorrow.
I wanted to take a look at the wiring, but the chainring is in the way of the top motor mount. Do you reckon the lockring is like what Park Tool BBT-18 opens or something annoyingly close?
My typically strong Google-fu does not come up with any Bafang specific tool that looks like it.
Edit: I got the BBT-18 tool as all measurements indicated it should work. Will try it out tomorrow.
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I stopped counting at 50 clicks on the re-bound. Just played with the compression a bit more and I have just under two turns, but it's mushy at the negative end and the clicks aren't precise - I have 5 clicks at varying intervals and a couple of tight spots.
I did read about the chainring locknut but can't remember exactly. I know one of the tools was close and seem to remember one person modifying another one, will have a search again later.
The Park Tool BBT-18 fits the chainring lockring/nut perfect. I think the lockring on the Vitus is different (more standard) from what is usually used on the M510.
On the wiring side everything looks standard Bafang. Mostly I wanted to make sure that the battery "data" or whatever connector was the usual 3 pin and it is.
On the wiring side everything looks standard Bafang. Mostly I wanted to make sure that the battery "data" or whatever connector was the usual 3 pin and it is.
OK, this isn't hugely interesting 
But it's not something you can really do on the other bikes as it's data you can't normally see.
I've been monitoring the battery. As previously mentioned, it's new and they can take several charges to stabilise.
Unlike other bikes the "Charge Cycles" - which normally means how many times a battery has been charged though it's whole 100% range, ie if you charged it from 70 to 100 one day, 80 to 100 another day and 50 to 100 the third day, that would be one charge cycle - the equivalent of it being completely flat to completely full. With the Bafang charge cycle count it literally seems to mean how many times the charger has been connected. I'm at 5 now as I moved the bike around a few times when it was charging.
On the first charge, it said it had a Full capacity of 16250mah. By morning the Relative state of charge had dropped to 96%, presumably as the BMS re-calibrated.
Leaving the charger plugged in, the calculated full capacity for the battery increased.
When charging the bike, there doesn't seem to be any external way to see if it's been fully charged other than turning it on and looking at the display or feeling if the charger has cooled.
But it's not something you can really do on the other bikes as it's data you can't normally see. I've been monitoring the battery. As previously mentioned, it's new and they can take several charges to stabilise.
Unlike other bikes the "Charge Cycles" - which normally means how many times a battery has been charged though it's whole 100% range, ie if you charged it from 70 to 100 one day, 80 to 100 another day and 50 to 100 the third day, that would be one charge cycle - the equivalent of it being completely flat to completely full. With the Bafang charge cycle count it literally seems to mean how many times the charger has been connected. I'm at 5 now as I moved the bike around a few times when it was charging.
On the first charge, it said it had a Full capacity of 16250mah. By morning the Relative state of charge had dropped to 96%, presumably as the BMS re-calibrated.
Leaving the charger plugged in, the calculated full capacity for the battery increased.
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When charging the bike, there doesn't seem to be any external way to see if it's been fully charged other than turning it on and looking at the display or feeling if the charger has cooled.
A quick test ride to test the fork and some settings... tried a few other things whilst out and about :
E+ is certainly the most like EMTB. You have to put slightly more effort in for power out and max power is slightly less, but it's the mode which feels most similar. Peaked at about 480w. Climbed hills very similarly to EMTB and assistance for effort given felt quite similar in the way it came in.
Trail mode is really nice, but it gives power too easily. If it was steep, I was receiving 500-550w for virtually zero effort. At lower speeds there were lower Watts, but it still ramps up too easily. It peaked at about 600w.
Boost and Race both peaked at 725w - so about the same as a Brose 2.1/2.2 with any firmware after 7.4.2 when voltage compensation was introduced and the peak power was dropped slightly to accommodate.
The cut off is super super smooth .. really hammered it to the cut off a few times and was still showing assistance upto 35kph !! Though you're on your own then..
The Microshift, no complaints - the shifters aren't very tactile, but they work.
The Tektro's .. Rear is ok'ish. The front I found does work, but you need two fingers, there just isn't the power with one finger.
The fork .. high speed compression seems to be completely closed. the rest is just randomly doing it's own thing. The closest I can describe the experience of riding this bike, on anything remotely rough, is like when I rode a Vanmoof down a DH track.
It's an interesting test for warranty though, which I'm sure lots of people looking at one of these is concerned about.
I wrote to Suntour first, purely to ask if the performance the fork was exhibiting was to be expected - ie, it was a totally noddy fork or is it faulty ? They did write back. But only to say they don't talk to the public (this was despite there being an option to select if you were trade or public on the contact form). I had previously vowed to never buy a Suntour fork again, but with some recent good reviews I was actually quite excited and hopeful that it might not be awful.
I then did a warranty claim through bikester and wrote to Vitus just in case they had any information to offer.
So far, disappointingly, nothing from either.
I'm now in the dilemma of waiting, just in case the Suntour could be ok with a working damper. Say stuff it and buy a Lyric/Zeb/36/Yari (like the VRX) and accept that the Suntour was probably going to be unusable anyway (Which destroys my hope that this would be a cheap, happy, get on and ride and still be a semi capable bike) Or send the bike back as if there's not going to be any support with something as simple as a damper, then you're you're not going to get any support at all with a faulty battery/motor and have to source the parts yourself. Whilst being able to source parts is one of the advantages of this bike and one of the things which make it so attractive, you'd hope to not have to do that until outside of the warranty.
You could argue that this is a "Cheap Bike" .. Yes, it is in the scheme of things. But it's still a £3299 bike and if the fork is really that bad, then it's no faster, more capable or safer than a £1000 Decathlon hub motored hard tail so if you only want to plod trails, you may as well buy three of them.
E+ is certainly the most like EMTB. You have to put slightly more effort in for power out and max power is slightly less, but it's the mode which feels most similar. Peaked at about 480w. Climbed hills very similarly to EMTB and assistance for effort given felt quite similar in the way it came in.
Trail mode is really nice, but it gives power too easily. If it was steep, I was receiving 500-550w for virtually zero effort. At lower speeds there were lower Watts, but it still ramps up too easily. It peaked at about 600w.
Boost and Race both peaked at 725w - so about the same as a Brose 2.1/2.2 with any firmware after 7.4.2 when voltage compensation was introduced and the peak power was dropped slightly to accommodate.
The cut off is super super smooth .. really hammered it to the cut off a few times and was still showing assistance upto 35kph !!
Though you're on your own then.. The Microshift, no complaints - the shifters aren't very tactile, but they work.
The Tektro's .. Rear is ok'ish. The front I found does work, but you need two fingers, there just isn't the power with one finger.
The fork .. high speed compression seems to be completely closed. the rest is just randomly doing it's own thing. The closest I can describe the experience of riding this bike, on anything remotely rough, is like when I rode a Vanmoof down a DH track.
It's an interesting test for warranty though, which I'm sure lots of people looking at one of these is concerned about.
I wrote to Suntour first, purely to ask if the performance the fork was exhibiting was to be expected - ie, it was a totally noddy fork or is it faulty ? They did write back. But only to say they don't talk to the public (this was despite there being an option to select if you were trade or public on the contact form). I had previously vowed to never buy a Suntour fork again, but with some recent good reviews I was actually quite excited and hopeful that it might not be awful.
I then did a warranty claim through bikester and wrote to Vitus just in case they had any information to offer.
So far, disappointingly, nothing from either.
I'm now in the dilemma of waiting, just in case the Suntour could be ok with a working damper. Say stuff it and buy a Lyric/Zeb/36/Yari (like the VRX) and accept that the Suntour was probably going to be unusable anyway (Which destroys my hope that this would be a cheap, happy, get on and ride and still be a semi capable bike) Or send the bike back as if there's not going to be any support with something as simple as a damper, then you're you're not going to get any support at all with a faulty battery/motor and have to source the parts yourself. Whilst being able to source parts is one of the advantages of this bike and one of the things which make it so attractive, you'd hope to not have to do that until outside of the warranty.
You could argue that this is a "Cheap Bike" .. Yes, it is in the scheme of things. But it's still a £3299 bike and if the fork is really that bad, then it's no faster, more capable or safer than a £1000 Decathlon hub motored hard tail so if you only want to plod trails, you may as well buy three of them.
CarolinaCrawler
Active member
With the current price of the Yari/Domain forks you can find on sale, it doesn't make sense to do anything else. Its crazy how cheap they are anymore.
I am a bit surprised on not getting a reply from Vitus. That's pretty unusual.
I am a bit surprised on not getting a reply from Vitus. That's pretty unusual.
Rando_12345
Active member
Can the suntour be race prepped by a suspension shop? I know a lot of people swear that buying a yari and getting a custom tuned damper for ~€200 is better than riding a lyrik. Just not sure anyone does that for suntours.
That was the other option, just take it to FAST suspension and put their damper in. I doubt there's anything they can do with the air spring, so you have to hope that's ok.
You can certainly pick up a 29 boost Yari off Ebay for around the £200-£250 mark but it will likely have a motion control damper & I'd want the charger damper. The upgrade is easy but the charger damper kit will set you back another £250 although there is on on there today at £80 with no bids on it & ending tomorrow.
I think with this bike, it is upgradeable on a budget but you need to keep your ear to the ground & grab bargains as they come up.
I think with this bike, it is upgradeable on a budget but you need to keep your ear to the ground & grab bargains as they come up.
Hadn't looked on eBay. Yari here is about €380. As you say, with the motion damper. Charger damper takes it to lyric spec with lesser wipers. Charger damper from a shop is not cheap though. Fox 36 rhythm is about £290 and I think better than a yari, closer to a base lyric. FAST Suspension damper is about €400, but you could end up with an amazing fork - haven't ridden one though.
deksawyer
E*POWAH Master
I have a barely used fork damper from a pair of Suntour Aions (or Aurons, I can't remember), I upgraded to the more fancy one - yours for the cost of postage if you want them Zimm - it'll let you know if yours is gubbed or not....
claudiobosticco
Member
A friend of mine has the old version (SC4) on his Zeb. Really nice. But I don't think that they list compatibility with Suntour forks. You may ask though.
Actually I don't think I've ever seen a kit to upgrade a Suntour fork from some suspension tuner
Rando_12345
Active member
Rockshox only, but this is the one I was thinking about: SPLUG - BLOC DE COMPRESSION HYDRAULIQUE
Could be worth sending the team at novyparts a mail to see if he has any options for suntour.
Could be worth sending the team at novyparts a mail to see if he has any options for suntour.
I've just written to them .. In English it says no comparability, in French it says they are for suntour - unless you read the individual item then it says it's not ..A friend of mine has the old version (SC4) on his Zeb. Really nice. But I don't think that they list compatibility with Suntour forks. You may ask though.
Actually I don't think I've ever seen a kit to upgrade a Suntour fork from some suspension tuner
Thanks everyone, certainly a few other options I'd not considered..
Did just check e-bay.france , Yari's here are about €550 on there, charger damper €250-€350 .. and no DSD runts (which would give me infinate adjustability - which I already have with my magic re-bound knob !
)@deksawyer Thanks, I'll PM you.
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If you're not in a rush, try MTB & road bike spare parts, MTB components, Wheels, Frames, SHIMANO, SRAM, ROCKSHOX, the best prices are at RCZ Bike Shop and subscribe to their newsletter. Daily insanely good deals, if they offer what you need. Zeb Selects and Fox 36/38 factory and performance elite on offer all the time. Downside is that you have to be careful to get a reasonable travel/offset and also that they may take months to get to you. Sometimes they have reasonable brakes for very low prices, as well.
I've just heard from Bikester .. they wanted a video of the low speed compression damper being adjusted.... with it's random clicks - so they have that now.
Nothing from Vitus, though arguably it's nothing to do with them directly.
I forgot to say, the battery stayed at 100% after it's last charge.
Nothing from Vitus, though arguably it's nothing to do with them directly.
I forgot to say, the battery stayed at 100% after it's last charge.
skismith
Member
@Zimmerframe what size is your frame and what size bottle are you using in the pics for reference please.
Any comments on battery range vs the Bosch 625 wh?
Thanks
Any comments on battery range vs the Bosch 625 wh?
Thanks
Size M frame. Fidlock is the standard size one 600? With the mounts reversed to fit. Not sure a piggy back shock would still fit in that configuration though.
Range, still a bit early to say for sure. If you rode in just eco with the gen4 then you'd get way more range than E on the Vitus.
All of the modes feel a bit like they respond like EMTB mode, so even with E if you push really hard it will give you 280w, which is way more than eco is limited to on a gen4.
If you normally ride EMTB and rode in E+ I'd guess they'd be similar on range. I've generally been trying all the modes so can't get a definitive idea.
Whilst I can't ride fun stuff with it I should do some boring range rides.
32k 925m 16.9kmh average used about 70% mixed mode and battery still settling in. That would be slightly more battery used than the gen4 in EMTB. But then the battery might be more linear , the gen4 drops off a bit quicker at the end.
skismith
Member
skismith
Member
Thanks @Zimmerframe
Ignoring manufacturers figures, which aren't always correct, I was curious about the bikes wheelbase.
A Size M E-mythique VR measures as exactly the same as a 2019 Kenevo Size L axle to axle. Therefore a VRX and VRX with the extra fork length would be slightly longer.
A 21 Focus Jam2 in M, is about 2cm shorter.
A Size M E-mythique VR measures as exactly the same as a 2019 Kenevo Size L axle to axle. Therefore a VRX and VRX with the extra fork length would be slightly longer.
A 21 Focus Jam2 in M, is about 2cm shorter.
It seems like an amazing bike so far.
I wonder if there's a faulty batch of dampers. Or should click nicely in both directions.
Do you know if your high speed compression is closed or working ?
Take it off a drop or get some air off a decent root or something (it's not always easy to push down hard/fast enough to feel high speed) It's a 160 fork so it should be quite compliant !
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Just had a quick blast around to get more of a feel for the modes and power.
Highest I saw in "E" was 325w
Highest I saw in "T" was 635w
Battery wasn't fully charged, so the highest I saw in "B" and "R" were 680w - which would suggest it doesn't have voltage compensation, so peak watts will reduce with battery voltage - but that's not really a biggy to worry about as it still feels like it kicks out loads.
Peak assistance is a little weird, it's a bit like Bosch Smart Auto mode in T/B/R - maybe E/E+ too, didn't spend enough time in them today to see.
Assistance increases in proportion to effort put into the pedals - more with each mode. Strangely though, in T/B/R I found that even when I pushed my hardest, I didn't necessarily get peak Watts of assistance. Only when I eased off a bit did the Watts of assistance increase to peaks - almost like it compensates for your energy ebbing away and it adds a bit more to help you maintain the same speed when climbing, like Auto mode would.
Microshift still feels great, though I need to move the shifter outwards a bit/swap it's position with the brake lever. Think it misses shifts slightly more than an XT when it's full of leaves/twigs/grass, other than that I'm still impressed with how crisp it feels on the changes.
Fork is still horrible (unsurprisingly) even if you go for a bit of urban air off a speed bump it feels like you've bottomed out off a 2 meter drop.
Totally inaccurate and unscientific power comparisons using stravas estimation of combined motor and rider :
Bosch Gen4 -going as hard as possible all the time : Peak 1262w
Shorter less up and down ride going fairly hard on a Kenevo/Brose : Peak 1258w
Longer steadier ride with just a few bits of going for it and lots of really slow bits (so a much lower average power) on the Bafang M510 : Peak 1135w
I'm well down on fitness/strength/muscle due to 8 weeks accident recovery, so rider power will be down, therefore total power will be down. If you take that into account then real world riding they're pretty comparable.
Did try walk mode going up a longer hill today. Works well and consistently - probably the best walk mode I've tried. Like a Bosch, it's a bit annoying as you have to shift down to Walk mode then hold down, so when you want to go again, you have to shift up through the modes to select the mode you want - I think this is done for safety, but it's still a PITA.
Bike also drew it's first blood (ok, technically, there was a cardboard papercut when unpacking
) Pedal strike to the shin when trying to hill start in Race. Still haven't got used to the longer crank turn delay, so went for an OAP foot down and instead the motor went full whack (literally) into my shin... 
A couple of times today the front felt like it's slightly too low, so maybe the bike is balanced more for the 170 fork rather than the 160 on the VR, though mine could be sitting further into it's travel than it should as it has the random damper crap going on.
Winning the worst E-Mythique pics of the week award : Random not a trail from today ... but yo can see the extra battery guard the production bikes have that the pre-release bikes don't seem to have.
Hiding behind a tree on a new bit of trail I made this week ...
Highest I saw in "E" was 325w
Highest I saw in "T" was 635w
Battery wasn't fully charged, so the highest I saw in "B" and "R" were 680w - which would suggest it doesn't have voltage compensation, so peak watts will reduce with battery voltage - but that's not really a biggy to worry about as it still feels like it kicks out loads.
Peak assistance is a little weird, it's a bit like Bosch Smart Auto mode in T/B/R - maybe E/E+ too, didn't spend enough time in them today to see.
Assistance increases in proportion to effort put into the pedals - more with each mode. Strangely though, in T/B/R I found that even when I pushed my hardest, I didn't necessarily get peak Watts of assistance. Only when I eased off a bit did the Watts of assistance increase to peaks - almost like it compensates for your energy ebbing away and it adds a bit more to help you maintain the same speed when climbing, like Auto mode would.
Microshift still feels great, though I need to move the shifter outwards a bit/swap it's position with the brake lever. Think it misses shifts slightly more than an XT when it's full of leaves/twigs/grass, other than that I'm still impressed with how crisp it feels on the changes.
Fork is still horrible (unsurprisingly) even if you go for a bit of urban air off a speed bump it feels like you've bottomed out off a 2 meter drop.
Totally inaccurate and unscientific power comparisons using stravas estimation of combined motor and rider :
Bosch Gen4 -going as hard as possible all the time : Peak 1262w
Shorter less up and down ride going fairly hard on a Kenevo/Brose : Peak 1258w
Longer steadier ride with just a few bits of going for it and lots of really slow bits (so a much lower average power) on the Bafang M510 : Peak 1135w
I'm well down on fitness/strength/muscle due to 8 weeks accident recovery, so rider power will be down, therefore total power will be down. If you take that into account then real world riding they're pretty comparable.
Did try walk mode going up a longer hill today. Works well and consistently - probably the best walk mode I've tried. Like a Bosch, it's a bit annoying as you have to shift down to Walk mode then hold down, so when you want to go again, you have to shift up through the modes to select the mode you want - I think this is done for safety, but it's still a PITA.
Bike also drew it's first blood (ok, technically, there was a cardboard papercut when unpacking
) Pedal strike to the shin when trying to hill start in Race. Still haven't got used to the longer crank turn delay, so went for an OAP foot down and instead the motor went full whack (literally) into my shin... A couple of times today the front felt like it's slightly too low, so maybe the bike is balanced more for the 170 fork rather than the 160 on the VR, though mine could be sitting further into it's travel than it should as it has the random damper crap going on.
Winning the worst E-Mythique pics of the week award : Random not a trail from today ... but yo can see the extra battery guard the production bikes have that the pre-release bikes don't seem to have.
Hiding behind a tree on a new bit of trail I made this week ...
I did the push down hard check but could not feel any differences.
Unfortunately, I haven't ridden the bike yet and will not before next Sunday.
Then I will try a drop test.Nevertheless, fork, damper and brakes will be changed within the next weeks.
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