Fuel EXe Trek Fuel EXe Megathread!

[Kepler]

Wondering if people are setting up the motor tuning on the app just by feel or have some sort of formula they are using? I am personally using a simple formula to set the assist percentage which is working really well for me.

For anyone interested, this is what I do.

Firstly you need to know what your approximate FTP is. I know most will be familiar with FTP however if your not, its basically the average Watts you can sustain for an hour. Pro riders are up around the 400W mark. Me personally, I am currently at an FTP of 200W which is probably pretty average for a social male rider. Google "how to calculate FTP" if you want to figure out what yours currently is if you don't already know.

Also your riding weight is important to understand what level of assist you receive. For my calculation I use:
Riding weight = Bike + you + gear.

I set my max power for each mode as follows and I think this pretty standard for most people with this bike.
Eco => 100W
Mid => 200W
High = 300W

To calculate my assist level I simply divide the Wattage by my FTP and multiply by my weight factor. The result is then expressed as a percentage assist level

eg.

Weight factor: Me 78kG + bike 18kG + gear 5Kg = 101

(100W / 200 FTP)x101 = 50.5% assist level.
(200W / 200 FTP)x101 = 101% assist level.
(300W / 200 FTP)x101 = 151.5% assist level.


What I like about this method is that your percentage of assist tracks with your fitness or sustained power capabilities. It also takes into account what load is on the bike. This means the bike wont give you all its got until you are at your FTP for your given load.

In regards to Pedal Response, this only has a small bearing on range so you can set this to what ever you like.
Personally, I want Eco to be very natural so I set this to 50% or half. Mid I set 75% and High I set to Max.

This methodology will force you to work however your range in every mode will no doubt increase significantly.

I know this wont work for everyone but if you bought this bike, you probably are not after a free ride anyway.

I am amazed with what my range has increased to and the effort required for this range increase really hasn't been that significant.

With these settings, Eco goes for ever and kind of feels like a light weight analogue bike. Mid gives you great range but with enough support to know you are on an ebike. High I think gives you all the assist you will ever need with the added bonus of a bit more range then the out of the box settings.

No doubt holes can be shot though this methodology for setting assist levels though the app however why not give it a go? I think at least this gives you a calculated starting point rather then just relying on "feel" alone.

 

[Hitorogoshi]

Hey there, nice build :- ) Always happy to see ZEB on anything :- ). Just like I would build it. While I have no intention to swap from my Kenevo SL as I love it as a bike, even if the motor is the weaker aspect of it (purely from sound standpoint for me), I am really interested in deeper comparison.
I up-duroed many bikes in my short lifetime so I am curious where you will find limit to the rear suspension. Imho geometry is already as aggressive as can be so it's all about the 14cm in the back. Can the bike take 62,5 or even 65mm stroke? Or does the wheel run into seattube. Perhaps with mullet it could up-stroke?

Yo hey there, thanks for the post. There is a guy that has run 160mm travel in the rear without issues on a X2. Apparently if you remove one of the float X spacers in the stock shock you can up the travel to 150mm. Reports after these changes however state there is little to no difference in feel on the bike, which does not surprise me. I won't lie, hitting park jump lines on the kenevo was a breeze for me and my heart rate was quite mild. Hitting the same lines on this bike makes me peak in the beat department. It's a very lively rig, takes some getting used to.
Not once after a few jump cases did I feel unsafe. The kenevo felt like an all out safer/dead ride to me. But yes, two very different bikes.

The recommendation from Trek is to run the flip chip in HIGH when mulleting the rig. If this bike is this lively now, I would be very worried about it in a 27,5" at the rear. I can get this bike into a manual easier than any other ebike I have ever ridden (I have had a ride on most out there). It's a gem.

In a dream word.... I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE BOTH

 

[Swingset]

My one complaint on my Decoy is the Shimano spline interface at the crank. The cranks, to be fair, take a huge amount of ground strikes which causes them to loosen and creak. I just put on a new set of 160's (from 165) to help reduce strikes.

I take it the EXe uses a different spline (ISIS?). What the consensus on the E-13 crank interface?

 

[Hitorogoshi]

My one complaint on my Decoy is the Shimano spline interface at the crank. The cranks, to be fair, take a huge amount of ground strikes which causes them to loosen and creak. I just put on a new set of 160's (from 165) to help reduce strikes.

I take it the EXe uses a different spline (ISIS?). What the consensus on the E-13 crank interface?

I would love to know too - Does 5Dev make a compatible ISIS crank? I recall seeing something on their website

 

[Zed]

In a dream word.... I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE BOTH

Yeah, ebikes aside there was always a need for a trail bike and an enduro bike. This doesn't change with ebikes, it's just that we didn't really have Trail ebikes until these lighter bikes came to be.

I wouldn't be trying to make my EXe into a long travel bike, I think it'd ruin the well sorted piece of kit that it is. Actually, it would definitely ruin it for my local trails... Some people have a lot of gnarlier stuff locally I guess.

Seems very likely a longer travel big brother to the Fuel EXe will pop up soon enough from Trek.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

170mm Ohlins Fork, 150mm Ohlins Coil, DD DHR2

19.28 KG.

Rob Hancill on Instagram: "Trek Fuel EXe RR Edition…. 170mm @ohlinsmtb 38 m.2 and 150mm rear TTXM.2 - weight: 19.28 KG and 63.5 head angle - YES what a beast!! (Prob not supposed to run 170 Fork btw) @trekbikes @ohlinsmtb @tq_ebike"

18K likes, 151 comments - robridesemtb on September 24, 2022: "Trek Fuel EXe RR Edition…. 170mm @ohlinsmtb 38 m.2 and 150mm rear TTXM.2 - weight: 19.28 KG and 63.5 head angle - YES what a beast!! (Prob not supposed to run 170 Fork btw) @trekbikes @ohlinsmtb @tq_ebike".

www.instagram.com

 

[DugT]

I just had my first ride on my new Trek Fuel EXe 9.8 XT. This was actually my first ride on trails with an e bike so I have no comparison info other than to my 2016 Giant 29er SC bike. The XC is a good bike with a carbon frame, carbon wheels and Shimano XT 12x. In short, I really like this new bike. I didn't notice any motor sound but I didn't take it up anything very steep. The ECO power mode was enough 95% of the time. Actually it was enough all of the time but it was fun to kick it up a notch on a couple of steeper segments. The assist was very easy to manage and not conspicuous.

The full suspension was comfy compared to my XC bike. The more slack geometry felt awkward but it wasn't a problem. I was worried about a couple of tight switchback turns on my usual ride but with this ebike I could go slower than usual and still power out of the turn in time to stay upright and make it up the hill. The bars on the Fuel are 840mm wide. On my XC bike they are 650mm wide. That is a huge difference and I definitely prefer the narrow bars. I will cut down the new ones to 720mm and see how I like them. That should make it a lot easier to adjust to the slack geometry. If anyone has any questions about any of this, please contact my publicist.

Here is a photo of it in bright sunlight. The Mulsanne Blue looks much darker in the shade.

 

[four_seven]

I just had my first ride on my new Trek Fuel EXe 9.8 XT. This was actually my first ride on trails with an e bike so I have no comparison info other than to my 2016 Giant 29er SC bike. The XC is a good bike with a carbon frame, carbon wheels and Shimano XT 12x. In short, I really like this new bike. I didn't notice any motor sound but I didn't take it up anything very steep. The ECO power mode was enough 95% of the time. Actually it was enough all of the time but it was fun to kick it up a notch on a couple of steeper segments. The assist was very easy to manage and not conspicuous.

The full suspension was comfy compared to my XC bike. The more slack geometry felt awkward but it wasn't a problem. I was worried about a couple of tight switchback turns on my usual ride but with this ebike I could go slower than usual and still power out of the turn in time to stay upright and make it up the hill. The bars on the Fuel are 84mm wide. On my XC bike they are 65mm wide. That is a huge difference and I definitely prefer the narrow bars. I will cut down the new ones to 72mm and see how I like them. The bars on the Fuel are 84mm wide. On my XC bike they are 65mm wide. That is a huge difference and I definitely prefer the narrow bars. I will cut down the new ones to 72mm and see how I like them. That should make it a lot easier to adjust to the slack geometry. If anyone has any questions about any of this, please contact my publicist.

Here is a photo of it in bright sunlight. The Mulsanne Blue looks much darker in the shade.

View attachment 97964

Looks great, what size are you riding?

I’ve got a medium 9.8, and had my bars trimmed to 780mm, you’re right the stock ones are HUGE - I wouldn’t go too much smaller though, even new XC bikes now come standard with 760mm or wider bars.

 

[DugT]

Looks great, what size are you riding?

I’ve got a medium 9.8, and had my bars trimmed to 780mm, you’re right the stock ones are HUGE - I wouldn’t go too much smaller though, even new XC bikes now come standard with 760mm or wider bars.

I got a medium too. I'm 5'10" but I have short arms and legs and I prefer maneuverability to stability.

 

[R2thek]

I just had my first ride on my new Trek Fuel EXe 9.8 XT. This was actually my first ride on trails with an e bike so I have no comparison info other than to my 2016 Giant 29er SC bike. The XC is a good bike with a carbon frame, carbon wheels and Shimano XT 12x. In short, I really like this new bike. I didn't notice any motor sound but I didn't take it up anything very steep. The ECO power mode was enough 95% of the time. Actually it was enough all of the time but it was fun to kick it up a notch on a couple of steeper segments. The assist was very easy to manage and not conspicuous.

The full suspension was comfy compared to my XC bike. The more slack geometry felt awkward but it wasn't a problem. I was worried about a couple of tight switchback turns on my usual ride but with this ebike I could go slower than usual and still power out of the turn in time to stay upright and make it up the hill. The bars on the Fuel are 840mm wide. On my XC bike they are 650mm wide. That is a huge difference and I definitely prefer the narrow bars. I will cut down the new ones to 720mm and see how I like them. That should make it a lot easier to adjust to the slack geometry. If anyone has any questions about any of this, please contact my publicist.

Here is a photo of it in bright sunlight. The Mulsanne Blue looks much darker in the shade.

View attachment 97964

That looks really nice'

 

[kazowie]

Not sure if anyone what has seen this, but after only 65 hours the bike failed to turn on (after being fully charged). In the end it came good after I popped the display unit and power cycled it. After the ride it would immediately power back up after the long press to turn it off. I mucked string with it for awhile but in the end I backed off the torque a little on the T3 torx bolt and now it will turn off properly

 

[prolix2]

Not sure if anyone what has seen this, but after only 65 hours the bike failed to turn on (after being fully charged). In the end it came good after I popped the display unit and power cycled it. After the ride it would immediately power back up after the long press to turn it off. I mucked string with it for awhile but in the end I backed off the torque a little on the T3 torx bolt and now it will turn off properly

I had similar experience. after successfully turning off by normal long press afew times, it began turning back on instantly. I found power cycling by batt disconnect didn't help. finally found that by holding the on-off button long long long press, until after the declining battery charge state squares go away, it will reliably turn off. Takes about four seconds. It wasnt like this at first, so I think its a little squirrelly

 

[DugT]

I had similar experience. after successfully turning off by normal long press afew times, it began turning back on instantly. I found power cycling by batt disconnect didn't help. finally found that by holding the on-off button long long long press, until after the declining battery charge state squares go away, it will reliably turn off. Takes about four seconds. It wasnt like this at first, so I think its a little squirrelly

That is definitely a concern. According to the manual, you have to hold the button down for three seconds to power off but only one second to power on. If the system will turn off automatically if it is idle for 5-15 minutes. So, if the button won't turn it off, hopefully it will turn of on its own if you let it sit.

 

[kazowie]

That is definitely a concern. According to the manual, you have to hold the button down for three seconds to power off but only one second to power on. If the system will turn off automatically if it is idle for 5-15 minutes. So, if the button won't turn it off, hopefully it will turn of on its own if you let it sit.

Before I got it to turn off, the bike has been left overnight and was still on. I had left it unplugged and fully charged (thinking I had turned it off) and the next morning it had discharged 10%

 

[DugT]

If you have a Fuel EXe, did you put the pad on the downtube? I'm undecided about it. The pad looks nicely made but the paint looks better. My old bike has a big square down tube and when rocks hit it, it makes a lot of noise but the paint still looks ok after seven years of riding. In the photos of Fuel's on Treks website, some of the bikes have the pad and some don't.

 

[Darkyhs]

170mm Ohlins Fork, 150mm Ohlins Coil, DD DHR2

19.28 KG.

Rob Hancill on Instagram: "Trek Fuel EXe RR Edition…. 170mm @ohlinsmtb 38 m.2 and 150mm rear TTXM.2 - weight: 19.28 KG and 63.5 head angle - YES what a beast!! (Prob not supposed to run 170 Fork btw) @trekbikes @ohlinsmtb @tq_ebike"

18K likes, 151 comments - robridesemtb on September 24, 2022: "Trek Fuel EXe RR Edition…. 170mm @ohlinsmtb 38 m.2 and 150mm rear TTXM.2 - weight: 19.28 KG and 63.5 head angle - YES what a beast!! (Prob not supposed to run 170 Fork btw) @trekbikes @ohlinsmtb @tq_ebike".

www.instagram.com

View attachment 97960

View attachment 97961

View attachment 97962

Will you make a video of this? Also keen to see what the ranges are on this bike.

 

[Desert_Turtle]

My 9.8XT arrived on Monday. I’ve got 4 rides on it. It’s currently 1 of 4 ebikes that I have. I’ve owned a ton of them including the Rise and SL. I’m too tired to write a lot about it. I think it’s an excellent bike. If you haven’t ridden a lot of ebikes you’ll miss the point of the bike altogether. It’s dead silent and feels like a regular bike! The power is softer than I thought but it feels so natural that I don’t mind. The ride is way better than that of the SL or Rise but the power of the Rise feels like a full fat in comparison.

It came with aluminum cranks which I don’t care about and it has the new Rockshox fork. After 2 rides it started creaking pretty badly from the bottom bracket. My local shop went through and retorqued everything and it’s good as new. Although the Rockshox suspension felt better than I thought it would, I ended up swapping a 160mm fox factory e-spec 36 on along with an X2 shock.

I’m very happy with the bike but unless you have friends that also ride SL style bikes, or acoustic, you’ll probably have to ride alone.

I’m a little uncertain about the range. On my first ride I rode 4 miles in turbo, 7-8 in trail, and 3-4 in eco for a total of 15 miles/2500ft. After I was done I had about 15% of the battery left. After adjusting the settings with the app I got 15 miles and 2500 feet using mostly eco with about 20% left. I weigh 200lbs so probably 210 kitted up with water.

I agree with Rob. The bike is definitely a game changer. No other ebike feels or rides like the EXe. It’s very unique.

 

[Fieryavenger]

Will you make a video of this? Also keen to see what the ranges are on this bike.

I ordered a 9.8XT that arrived last week. It came with aluminum cranks as well, but my LBS is ordering the carbon ones, which should arrive within 2 weeks. The bars are a lot wider than what I’m accustomed to, but am trying to get used to them. Will likely have them cut down a bit. As for the motor, it is not silent, but very quiet and smooth. I really only notice the motors muted whirring sound above 75 cadence, and gets slightly louder as the cadence increases, but is not unpleasant at all. This is my first e-bike, so I can’t compare it to other motors. I’ve done 2 identical rides on steep, but smooth fire roads, so I haven’t touched the suspension at all. Range has been better than anticipated.

Rider weight 155lbs before gear
Ride #1: 17.3 mi/2000ft 60/30/10 eco/trail/boost 48% battery remaining
Ride #2: 17.3 mi/2000ft 40/50/10 eco/trail/boost 40% battery remaining - overall moving time 13min faster.

 

[Desert_Turtle]

I cut my bars down before I even threw a leg over the bike. I generally ride with 780s but cut the bars down to 800. They feel fine. I’d definitely recommend doing the same or even cutting the down to 780 right away. 820mm is ridiculous .

 

[Jujujuice]

So...my LBS replaced the fuel exe for my wife but this time it came from a different branch because the previous branch had ran out of fuel exes. The different branch did not do a full 20km test ride before giving handing it to my wife. Prior to this, our normal LBS branch had done test rides on two other brand new fuel exes before it developed the same grinding noise problem.

Anyway, for the first ride the bike tested fine and was quiet with just a slight whirring noise. We then used a protective wrap on the bike as we were hopeful it was going to work fine! Today after my wife rode on rocky terrain for about 5 minutes, the grinding noise came back and was pretty much continuous. There is only rocky terrain where we live and there are no tracks that are smooth at all like what the other videos show.

This is just a really simple track where where the noise from the 3rd motor is apparent:
This is the new bike with the 6th motor on just the flat...the noise downhill was bad according to my wife. We did not have the GoPro with us on our ride today to record it so I rode it on the pavement outside our house this is the video below.


Is anyone else experiencing this grinding noise or is it just us? Is it supposed to sound like this?

We are just very confused by the situation. The first motor she had that developed the grinding noise is now at TQ as it showed lots of error codes before it started jerking. Anyway, we have rejected the bike and asked for a refund but gutted it did not work out!

 

[Loamranger]

Jujujuice, sorry to hear about your continuing problems. Always a risk with untried technology. Perhaps see how things develop and come back in 6 months, hopefully things will have got sorted by then?

Pivot looks a good alternative but that again is a new motor. I have had no issues with Mahle motors on the two Levo SL’s I’ve had, although I understand there is a new model in the pipeline but don’t think we will see it until next year possibly?

 

[Hitorogoshi]

That is definitely a concern. According to the manual, you have to hold the button down for three seconds to power off but only one second to power on. If the system will turn off automatically if it is idle for 5-15 minutes. So, if the button won't turn it off, hopefully it will turn of on its own if you let it sit.

You will notice the bottom of the unit takes a lot of pressure from the torx s

So...my LBS replaced the fuel exe for my wife but this time it came from a different branch because the previous branch had ran out of fuel exes. The different branch did not do a full 20km test ride before giving handing it to my wife. Prior to this, our normal LBS branch had done test rides on two other brand new fuel exes before it developed the same grinding noise problem.

Anyway, for the first ride the bike tested fine and was quiet with just a slight whirring noise. We then used a protective wrap on the bike as we were hopeful it was going to work fine! Today after my wife rode on rocky terrain for about 5 minutes, the grinding noise came back and was pretty much continuous. There is only rocky terrain where we live and there are no tracks that are smooth at all like what the other videos show.

This is just a really simple track where where the noise from the 3rd motor is apparent:
This is the new bike with the 6th motor on just the flat...the noise downhill was bad according to my wife. We did not have the GoPro with us on our ride today to record it so I rode it on the pavement outside our house this is the video below.


Is anyone else experiencing this grinding noise or is it just us? Is it supposed to sound like this?

We are just very confused by the situation. The first motor she had that developed the grinding noise is now at TQ as it showed lots of error codes before it started jerking. Anyway, we have rejected the bike and asked for a refund but gutted it did not work out!

I find it rather peculiar that you are just about the only one getting lemons like this. Sucky indeed

I had one or two grind instances before rthe latest firmware update and never again.

Are you getting updated to the latest firmware before getting the bike? Make sure your lbs has the flash tool by TQ.

Good luck

 

[Hitorogoshi]

@Jujujuice
What mode and gear are you in when the grind occurs. I listened again and it seems to be at high cadence easier gears?

 

[Swingset]

Really tough to believe that these two companies would let these into the wild without some incredible vetting of the systems. There is no going back once you release the model. Both companies would do extensive testing beyond what is seen in the real world to establish margins that they could stand behind. The whole 'just riding along' excuse is largely a thing of the past for the large companies these days.

That motor has a small form factor. If they were to find out that one the internal components needed to be upsized requiring a new bolt/pattern and volume in the frame it would be game over until a new frame were produced. Imagine the collateral damage in remaking models and moving pivots around to fix it.

Hoping its a glitch in the system that can be remedied with what they have.

 

[Hitorogoshi]

Really tough to believe that these two companies would let these into the wild without some incredible vetting of the systems. There is no going back once you release the model. Both companies would do extensive testing beyond what is seen in the real world to establish margins that they could stand behind. The whole 'just riding along' excuse is largely a thing of the past for the large companies these days.

That motor has a small form factor. If they were to find out that one the internal components needed to be upsized requiring a new bolt/pattern and volume in the frame it would be game over until a new frame were produced. Imagine the collateral damage in remaking models and moving pivots around to fix it.

Hoping its a glitch in the system that can be remedied with what they have.

We are dealing with one person having the strange issue at the moment. And getting new bikes with the same issue. Odd...

 

[HoodMTB]

Update on motor noise. Still there. Trek said to keep riding up to 100-200mi and see if it fixes itself. At about 50mi now.
On my last ride, after climbing in highest power on gravel road for 15 min. on an 80deg day, the motor gradually got quiet and stayed that way for remainder of climb (another 20 min). But after descent the noise was back again, same as before.
On my 1971 Toyota Celica I'd add heavier weight motor oil to quiet it down, not sure that would work here ;-)

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[Swingset]

I have some experience designing Harmonic Drives for use in space applications. The harmonic ring is essentially the same idea with less of a gear reduction. Harmonic drives are extremely sensitive to tolerances in assembly and temperature changes. All Ebike motors have thermal clearances built in. At cold they should have some 'rattle' that gets taken up as parts expand as they warm up. Not uncommon for them to be the quietest when fully warmed up.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I have some experience designing Harmonic Drives for use in space applications

It looks like the drive for Trek has been in development for about three years based on information in here, there's also various breakdowns of the motor and other information (It's written in Australian, so best read with a beer in hand) :

TQ Creates a Much Smaller, Lighter, Quieter E-Bike Drive System

It’s a sign of how attractive the bicycle industry has become when a world leading company decides to invest heavily into developing new bicycle components.

micromobilityreport.com.au

TQ also developed some of the motors for the Mars Rovers, I think the main drive motors were TQ (part of me thinks a couple of them don't work anymore on one of the rovers and these had originally been intended for a New Zealand Rover ;-) )

A very old document about the 19 harmonic drives on the Mars rovers if anyone can't sleep tonight ...

https://trs.jpl.nasa.gov/bitstream/handle/2014/13269/01-2004.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

 

[Jujujuice]

We are dealing with one person having the strange issue at the moment. And getting new bikes with the same issue. Odd...

For the 2nd and 3rd new bikes, it was the mechanics who tested it before it developed the issue , so we did not even get to ride it …

 

[Swingset]

Thought the Mars rover used Maxon motors and Harmonic Drives- the TQ references are hard to find.