"The new Levo XSL, 14KG and guaranteed no motor failure"
Levo SL Gen 1 The Reason for delay in 2023 Levo SL...(and various other discussions on lightweight bikes......)
- Thread starter BeBop
- Start date
"The new Levo XSL, 14KG and guaranteed no motor failure"
True. They are cancelling the Levo SL as it is almost the same bike as the Kenevo SL so why make both as you can always down tune the KSL to ride XC
Decolocsta
Active member
Xc with that flat, Long and slack geo?
There are a reason for a Kenevo to be a Kenevo and Not a Levo
There are a reason for a Kenevo to be a Kenevo and Not a Levo
How about "there is no new Levo SL because there is no reason for one" ? The current model does what it should for those of us who want that kind of bike. It doesn't need more power, geometry "du jour", different brakes/derailleur/etc...
Until a motor is developed that has greater efficiency or a battery that has more energy density (and both with less weight) there may be little reason to come out with a new bike.
Until a motor is developed that has greater efficiency or a battery that has more energy density (and both with less weight) there may be little reason to come out with a new bike.
Norcalsl
Active member
I'd like a quieter motor.
Well, yeah, me too.
Yes, I agree with the noise. On the other hand, you know how the industry works and how consumers think. You've got to have something better each time, even if your product is already pretty good. The SL will now be seen as lacking power, even though increasing the power will just add weight and reduce the range.
Good job you don't work for Specialized marketing!! Much like Apple find something new to put in their iPhone every year, Specialized will find something new for the SL '23 model.
When the SL was released 2 1/2 years ago it was one of the first of its kind - and so far there has only been component changes in the newer models.
Specialized now have some competition from some new Fazua based bikes and the new Trek to consider - all 'super light' and all with slightly more power / more up to date geometry.
I've had an SL since Feb 2020, and have no reason to change... as I'm happy riding it at 30% assist. Having said that... I have some spare change burning a hole in my pocket just now, and would seriously consider a 'frame only' option upgrade depending on what they release. My LBS said the '23 model is already in their system, and is due to be released in November. S-Works at £14,500 and frame only at about £7800 if I remember correctly. They couldn't tell me any actual facts about it, as no one really knows - and if they do, they've probably signed an non disclosure form... but their expectation was a more powerful motor and better geometry to try and keep up with the new kids on the block.
Lets wait and see though!
Indeed!
An engineer for my entire career, I considered marketing "the dark side". Change for the sake of change just so they could blare "new, improved" even if it didn't do anything better for the customer (unless we include a lighter wallet as a feature).I hope Specialized does not "improve" out the qualities that make the SL as good as it is. To be honest I changed a lot of things to make mine suit how and where I ride (wheels, derailleur, cassette, shifter). Like you I leave it in 30% assist about 95% of the time so I am not calling for more power.
Indeed!
I hope Specialized does not "improve" out the qualities that make the SL as good as it is. To be honest I changed a lot of things to make mine suit how and where I ride (wheels, derailleur, cassette, shifter). Like you I leave it in 30% assist about 95% of the time so I am not calling for more power
I too changed a lot of mine to make it suit me. Extended fork, longer shock, carbon bars / stem, shorter cranks, upgraded brakes, dropper / derailleur to AXS… in fact, the only original parts of my bike is the frame and the carbon wheels.
Does that not indicate that the bike can be improved?!
I was tempted by a Kenevo SL when they were released, but the extra couple of KG’s bothered me a bit after spending a lot of effort (and cash) reducing the weight of my bike. I ride probably 80% trail, and 20% downhill… so my hope is that the ‘23 SL has the more modern geometry that everyone keeps banging on about to help bridge the gap a little.
99% of the time, the power of the SL motor is enough for me, but there have been a few times during technical climbs that I’ve hit the Turbo button and wished it could give me a bit more. I can think of a couple of places I go regularly where say 50Nm might just be enough to get me ‘up’ some climbs that I currently have to push up.
For a couple of weeks prior to the SL, I had a Trek Rail, and it could power up them with no issue.
I don’t want to have to suffer the extra weight / handling of an FF bike for these couple of trails… but if I could have an SL bike (weigh / handling) that could turn on a bit more boost for 30 seconds here and there, that might be enough to sell it to me!
samwilk200
New Member
Any news on release dates for updates SL motor? There's some good discounts on current Kenevo SL's so would you buy now or wait for the new model?
samwilk200
New Member
Was your LBS suggesting new Levo AND Kenevo SL, or just the Levo?
Just Levo SL for now.
Go on then, enlighten us.
It's about serviceability, commonality, etc.
Better to focus on the bike and leave motor design to Porsche (the owners of Fazua) and others who are investing heavily in this space.
Just as it would be a negative if Spesh designed their own derailleur or shock, the motor is especially a component left to be out sourced
Better to focus on the bike and leave motor design to Porsche (the owners of Fazua) and others who are investing heavily in this space.
Just as it would be a negative if Spesh designed their own derailleur or shock, the motor is especially a component left to be out sourced
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Only 102 years of history building engines and auto parts. What would make them qualified to make an ebike motor
Swingset
Active member
My Mahle fuel filter split in half inside the gas tank on my Husky 501 way the eff behind enemy lines a few years back. I was stranded for nearly 24 hours and had to walk out about 15 miles. So yeah, I know who Mahle is.
Off topic but still brings back some PTSD...
Off topic but still brings back some PTSD...
No need to be condescending.
You are correct that I didn't realize that the Spesh motor was made by Mahle. I've built a couple of diesel engines using Mahle parts so realize that they know what they are doing.
However, the Mahle motor performs worse than it's competitors. It's loud, unreliable, and low power but at a very similar weight to higher power competitors. I'd be totally fine with less power, if it also weighed significantly less.
To be fair though, it was probably designed 4-5 years ago.
You are correct that I didn't realize that the Spesh motor was made by Mahle. I've built a couple of diesel engines using Mahle parts so realize that they know what they are doing.
However, the Mahle motor performs worse than it's competitors. It's loud, unreliable, and low power but at a very similar weight to higher power competitors. I'd be totally fine with less power, if it also weighed significantly less.
To be fair though, it was probably designed 4-5 years ago.
Yes. For good reason. Straight cut gears are noisier than helical gears but sap less power.
Is it? AFAIK it's no worse than any of the other current motors (there's no data on the new motors yet) and significantly better than the Brose and the Gen 2 Bosch CX.
That's by design.
This I wholeheartedly agree with.
Helical gears are quieter than straight cut but apply an axial load that requires the housing/bearings to be made stronger/heavier. Belts... not much more to be said there.
The SL/Mahle motor does not have many failure reports so it is probably one of the more reliable motors.
The SL/Mahle motor is about 80% efficient which is right up there with the others. More power is going to mean more weight. The motor could maybe be overdriven for a short time but gears have a hard limit. It will be interesting to see what Specialized comes up with but I am not going to be an early adopter.
The SL/Mahle motor does not have many failure reports so it is probably one of the more reliable motors.
The SL/Mahle motor is about 80% efficient which is right up there with the others. More power is going to mean more weight. The motor could maybe be overdriven for a short time but gears have a hard limit. It will be interesting to see what Specialized comes up with but I am not going to be an early adopter.
Yes, I think the Mahle motor is certainly more reliable than the Brose motor and I'd be holding back to see how the other light weight motor brands go too. Not always a good idea to jump onto the latest and greatest thing first up. Let them sort out the bugs a bit first.Helical gears are quieter than straight cut but apply an axial load that requires the housing/bearings to be made stronger/heavier. Belts... not much more to be said there.
The SL/Mahle motor does not have many failure reports so it is probably one of the more reliable motors.
The SL/Mahle motor is about 80% efficient which is right up there with the others. More power is going to mean more weight. The motor could maybe be overdriven for a short time but gears have a hard limit. It will be interesting to see what Specialized comes up with but I am not going to be an early adopter.
Here's some weights of the common motors. The only one that is lighter is the TQ in the Trek and that's not 2 times as much torque, it's only 15Nm more and the Fazua is 10g heavier and is still 10Nm off being 2x more torque.
I'm sure more power could be done with as simple software update but that will impact your range too. You don't get something for nothing.
| Shimano | 2600g |
| Bosch | 2900g |
| Yamaha | 3060g |
| Giant | 3100g |
| Brose | 2980g |
| SL 1.1 | 1950g |
| TQ | 1850g |
| Fazua Ride 60 | 1960g |
You forgot the Eon drive.
I guess it would have been more accurate to say with a weight 5% lighter to .5% heavier, with 43% to 71% more power. All while making more pleasant noises.
I'm actually fine with the low power as well, I'd just want the motor weight to reflect that lower power and I think when mountain biking, hearing nature and your tires gripping at the dirt are pretty important things which is why I'm really into the TQ drive.
I guess it would have been more accurate to say with a weight 5% lighter to .5% heavier, with 43% to 71% more power. All while making more pleasant noises.
I'm actually fine with the low power as well, I'd just want the motor weight to reflect that lower power and I think when mountain biking, hearing nature and your tires gripping at the dirt are pretty important things which is why I'm really into the TQ drive.
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I find it interesting how we all seem to have a different opinion on how to improve the Levo SL for the upcoming year yet Specialized has not released any info for a new model, this late in the year. Given that most of us have changed a number of components on our Levo SLs to make it right for how and where we ride, is it possible that a new model will not cause a huge turn over of used SLs? I wonder how many will jump on the next version given it is unlikely to be more powerful, have the same range or better, updated geometry, more reliable and of course be quieter. Pick two?
Specialized... are you listening? If you build it, we will buy it (and change several components to make it right for how and where we ride)!
It's possible that the Mahle has been over-engineered to allow for future power upgrades while preserving the form factor.
There are more powerful motors out in the world being long term tested that fit the current LSL/KSL frame and work with the existing battery.
There are more powerful motors out in the world being long term tested that fit the current LSL/KSL frame and work with the existing battery.
samwilk200
New Member
Interested to know what these other motors are? Any links please?
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