Levo SL Gen 1 The Reason for delay in 2023 Levo SL...(and various other discussions on lightweight bikes......)

[Alexbn921]

my ebike is 37lbs in sending it form.
my DH bikes are 33 lbs and 35 lbs. a 50lb FF would suck balls on some twisty trails

fact is there are way more fat people on this planet needing a FF ebike Than there are light weight people. For-sure a 115 lb young fit hot woman on an SL would smoke a 300lb fat ass man on a FF up a mountain AND use less battery power and total system power. Again, fact is the majority of humans in 1 st world countries are above obesity’s body fat percentage. We’re all bitching about 1st world problems.

Nice bike.

Although your math is wrong. They would both be going 14ish mph on a 7% grade.

You want full power you must be fat. See look at my $18k bike.

Most people want power independent of how much they weight. This is why FF sells 30:1.

 

[boBE]

A levo will sustain a 750watt draw from the battery until it's dead. An SL will only draw around 250.
I don't care if someone wants an SL. My father in law has one and I ride it.

Your confused as torque at rpm is power.

Your numbers contradict those published by Specialized. Where is the (documented and verified) data that supports your claim?

 

[Alexbn921]

Your numbers contradict those published by Specialized. Where is the (documented and verified) data that supports your claim?

There are 10+ threads on the blevo app. Go do your own research. We all know that manufactures never lie.

If I max out the assistance, I drain the the 700wh battery in just less than an hour.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Your numbers contradict those published by Specialized. Where is the (documented and verified) data that supports your claim?

There are 10+ threads on the blevo app. Go do your own research. We all know that manufactures never lie.

If I max out the assistance, I drain the the 700wh battery in just less than an hour.

He is correct. The bikes both pass the 250w tests (which are quite complicated how they work them - there is a thread somewhere about it).

The Mahle will pull pretty much a steady 300w from the battery.

The Brose will pull about ~720w (depending on firmware/battery state). This used to drop with battery voltage, but with voltage compensation on the newer firmwares it stays pretty consistent through the whole discharge cycle.

 

[Dax]

Most people want power independent of how much they weight.* This is why FF sells 30:1.*

View attachment 97019

*citations needed

 

[boBE]

He is correct. The bikes both pass the 250w tests (which are quite complicated how they work them - there is a thread somewhere about it).

The Mahle will pull pretty much a steady 300w from the battery.

The Brose will pull about ~720w (depending on firmware/battery state). This used to drop with battery voltage, but with voltage compensation on the newer firmwares it stays pretty consistent through the whole discharge cycle.

I stand (sit) corrected.
So with the Levo pulling 700 W from the battery and 80% efficiency for the motor/controller we get 560 W for the motor, just what Specialized tells us. What kind of dystopian world is this where a manufacturer reports honest numbers!? Likewise the SL gets 300 W and the motor is rated at 240.

Back to the title of the thread: no one appears to know when or what we will get for an updated SL. Me, I'm going riding (on my SL)!

 

[cjc.emtb]

37lb ebike that sends….cmon. Not over rocks or anything with an edge because you have to be running XC tyres to get near that weight so that effectively cancels out the sending part. You might make it down the same trails but no way near the same pace as something with decent tyres.

Also, the rotund people need the SL not the FF. SL bikes are for fit and/or light people imo.

My large alloy Levo SL weights 39 pounds with 2.5 Assegai front and 2.4 Dissector back.

 

[floppyb]

My large alloy Levo SL weights 39 pounds with 2.5 Assegai front and 2.4 Dissector back.

That's great. Mind sharing how you got it there? What did you swap out from the stock build?

 

[cjc.emtb]

That's great. Mind sharing how you got it there? What did you swap out from the stock build?

i9 hydra carbon wheels
i9 stem
OneUp carbon bar
SRAM GX axs drivetrain
GRAM GX 10-52 cassette
Tubeless...

 

[KnollyBro]

That's great. Mind sharing how you got it there? What did you swap out from the stock build?

I feel like such a fatty weighing in at 41 lbs. Then again, we run mullet, carbon wheels, a coil shock, a 170mm fork and Cushcores. This bike can send it at Whistler. All it really needs is a better rider!

 

[KnollyBro]

Union or strife rims?

Union. Its not a DH bike!

 

[Dax]

I feel like such a fatty weighing in at 41 lbs. Then again, we run mullet, carbon wheels, a coil shock, a 170mm fork and Cushcores. This bike can send it at Whistler. All it really needs is a better rider!

View attachment 97056

That seems like quite a lot, my Ksl is 41lbs!

 

[Dax]

Dual cushcore is over a Pound alone! Then coil, metal cranks and metal bars is another 2 lbs give or take.

Who needs cushcores…oh…me..

I got the KSL a bit lighter, but switching from 36s to zebs and composite pedals to saints added the weight back on.

 

[Zimmerframe]

What PSI did that happen at?

Looks like dooms just sat on it in the carpark.

Actually, that's his normal air pressure, hence why he needs cush cores...

Doesn't any of the SL crowd run nitrogen ? Or does that react badly with tubeless fluid ?

 

[Doomanic]

That's pretty much what happened when I tried his OG Kenevo four years (and many kg) ago.

 

[Zimmerframe]

That's pretty much what happened when I tried his OG Kenevo four years (and many kg) ago.

If you use @steve_sordys £1000 per kilo average, you must be able to tell the Mrs that you've saved £20 or 30k ? Easy to justify another new bike !

 

[Dax]

What PSI did that happen at?

Somewhere around 23psi. I’m quite a light rider so normally that’s ok, but my new variant of huck-to-flat, huck-to-pointy-rock, needs a few more psis

 

[Branz76]

But at the end of the story, when specialized will launch the new sl? I need to clear my bank account

 

[cjc.emtb]

Dual cushcore is over a Pound alone! Then coil, metal cranks and metal bars is another 2 lbs give or take.

Plus heavy disk brakes…

 

[Alexbn921]

Ehh. The disks are only about 200 grams each if you buy the downhill trickstuff 203mm disks. I’m riding at 210+ and that’s good enough for me. But I do have trickstuff brakes.

And where can you buy Trickstuff brakes.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I just want to see this 40% road grade! LOL

Don't have the e-bike experience that many here do, but was watching a video of a light vs. heavy full power e-bike just yesterday and the riders were climbing a long rocky grade that would be tough on anyone and the full powered e-bike guy said "this is no work at all!" as a compliment.

This isn't the experience I'm after personally. The full powered e-bikes have a throttle, that just happens to be activated by spinning the cranks. But the rider apparently doesn't have to provide any meaningful work at all, if they don't want to. Some will say just turn the power down on a FF e-bike (not sure why Euros call them 'FF") but I don't want to carry an extra 13#s, err 6 kilos around that I'm not interested in using.

Real world range test shows a much smaller difference between a FF & light e-bike that the numbers would suggest. Less drag, less weight, & a harder working rider will do that I guess.

Anyways, back to the '23 Levo SL, I'm super interested to see it and possibly buy it as I love my SJ Evo. That said the motor seems unreliable & loud so if uses the same motor I'd probably pass on this one.

 

[Alexbn921]

I just want to see this 40% road grade! LOL

Don't have the e-bike experience that many here do, but was watching a video of a light vs. heavy full power e-bike just yesterday and the riders were climbing a long rocky grade that would be tough on anyone and the full powered e-bike guy said "this is no work at all!" as a compliment.

This isn't the experience I'm after personally. The full powered e-bikes have a throttle, that just happens to be activated by spinning the cranks. But the rider apparently doesn't have to provide any meaningful work at all, if they don't want to. Some will say just turn the power down on a FF e-bike (not sure why Euros call them 'FF") but I don't want to carry an extra 13#s, err 6 kilos around that I'm not interested in using.

Real world range test shows a much smaller difference between a FF & light e-bike that the numbers would suggest. Less drag, less weight, & a harder working rider will do that I guess.

Anyways, back to the '23 Levo SL, I'm super interested to see it and possibly buy it as I love my SJ Evo. That said the motor seems unreliable & loud so if uses the same motor I'd probably pass on this one.

If a bike has double the battery it will have MORE range. The 10lb or less is 4% of total system weight. That will only effect range on the climbs and is nothing compared to the extra battery energy you are caring.

I don't care if you like SL bikes. They have trade offs just like FF bikes do. Pick the one that fits your personal terrain and style. Who you ride with and what they ride matters too.

 

[squeegee]

Real world range test shows a much smaller difference between a FF & light e-bike that the numbers would suggest. Less drag, less weight, & a harder working rider will do that I guess.

Anyways, back to the '23 Levo SL, I'm super interested to see it and possibly buy it as I love my SJ Evo. That said the motor seems unreliable & loud so if uses the same motor I'd probably pass on this one.

My LSL with RE consistently gets more range than my Gen3 700W Levo, comparing trail mode to trail mode. Without RE my LSL still gets respectable range, 25-30 miles depending on elevation, in trail mode.

I actually saw a new LSL at bike park in NC in July, had MM display, adjustable geo cups/ link. Specialized rep riding it, said motor was same with "firmware" updates, whatever that means. Later heard from another source will have same Mahle motor with updated internals to make 60nm and run quieter. Also mullet. Did not hear anything about battery capacity changes. All hearsay except what I saw.

Mahle motor on my LSL has 3500 miles over 2 years, lots of abuse and it working fine, seems pretty reliable to me.

 

[Dax]

a FF e-bike (not sure why Euros call them 'FF")

FF means ‘Full Fat’, which is a reference to the types of milk we get in the uk, skim, semi-skim and full fat. Also used to refer to the full size Range Rover (the vogue) to distinguish it from the plethora of smaller Range Rover models.

 

[Zimmerframe]

This isn't the experience I'm after personally. The full powered e-bikes have a throttle, that just happens to be activated by spinning the cranks. But the rider apparently doesn't have to provide any meaningful work at all, if they don't want to. Some will say just turn the power down on a FF e-bike (not sure why Euros call them 'FF") but I don't want to carry an extra 13#s, err 6 kilos around that I'm not interested in using.

It's not just viewing it as turning down the power and always riding in Turbo. You could also view it as turning up the power when/if you do need it and normally riding in Eco. Possibly for a recovery ride or if you have an injury or if you just want to get up as quickly as possible so you can squeeze in more DH runs as possible in a small time window. Everyones circumstances can be different, hence why having the choice of different bike types is a great thing.

You've not commented on them, so I'm not sure if you've seen the threads, but another couple of bikes which fall into your present "type" are the ones with the Fazua ride 60 system. (300w average, but with 450w peaks for 12 seconds via a button when/if you need them).

The Haibike Lyke :

Haibike Launch 18KG LYKE eBike - Fazua Ride 60

www.emtbforums.com

Pivot Shuttle SL :

2023 Pivot Shuttle SL - Super Light

Pivot Shuttle SL. Lightweight. Seen in new EMBN video. Looks neat, Fazua 60Nm motor, 430Wh battery.

www.emtbforums.com

There's the transition too, but not expected to ship until next Spring.

 

[Streddaz]

My LSL with RE consistently gets more range than my Gen3 700W Levo, comparing trail mode to trail mode. Without RE my LSL still gets respectable range, 25-30 miles depending on elevation, in trail mode.

I actually saw a new LSL at bike park in NC in July, had MM display, adjustable geo cups/ link. Specialized rep riding it, said motor was same with "firmware" updates, whatever that means. Later heard from another source will have same Mahle motor with updated internals to make 60nm and run quieter. Also mullet. Did not hear anything about battery capacity changes. All hearsay except what I saw.

Mahle motor on my LSL has 3500 miles over 2 years, lots of abuse and it working fine, seems pretty reliable to me.

If it is the same Mahle motor, it might be possible to upgrade and existing SL to the new motor which would be nice.

 

[Suns_PSD]

It's not just viewing it as turning down the power and always riding in Turbo. You could also view it as turning up the power when/if you do need it and normally riding in Eco. Possibly for a recovery ride or if you have an injury or if you just want to get up as quickly as possible so you can squeeze in more DH runs as possible in a small time window. Everyones circumstances can be different, hence why having the choice of different bike types is a great thing.

You've not commented on them, so I'm not sure if you've seen the threads, but another couple of bikes which fall into your present "type" are the ones with the Fazua ride 60 system. (300w average, but with 450w peaks for 12 seconds via a button when/if you need them).

The Haibike Lyke :

Haibike Launch 18KG LYKE eBike - Fazua Ride 60

www.emtbforums.com

Pivot Shuttle SL :

2023 Pivot Shuttle SL - Super Light

Pivot Shuttle SL. Lightweight. Seen in new EMBN video. Looks neat, Fazua 60Nm motor, 430Wh battery.

www.emtbforums.com

There's the transition too, but not expected to ship until next Spring.

For my purposes those 2 options just aren't enough bike for me.

I'm considering the Relay, the new Levo SL (there is a local test ride next month scheduled, hoping it's the new one) & the Siryon at this time. I'd also like to see Trek build a more AM/ Enduro type bike as they appear to have the best motor at this time.

The e-bike space is evolving quickly so I intend to wait until the Spring before making a decision and pulling the trigger.

 

[Pauliemon]

but was watching a video of a light vs. heavy full power e-bike just yesterday and the riders were climbing a long rocky grade that would be tough on anyone and the full powered e-bike guy said "this is no work at all!" as a compliment.

I don't know about that. I went out riding with my pals on their FFs. I was riding my SL. I was weezin' and weavin' trying to catch them. Then, I went riding with the same pals but I was on my FF. I was weezin' and weavin' trying to catch them.

I have a Gen 3 and don't have enough time on other FFs to compare. Where I feel the difference is loading it on the rack.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I don't know about that. I went out riding with my pals on their FFs. I was riding my SL. I was weezin' and weavin' trying to catch them. Then, I went riding with the same pals but I was on my FF. I was weezin' and weavin' trying to xatch them.

I have a Gen 3 and don't have enough time on other FFs to compare. Where I feel the difference is loading it on the rack.

For my purposes those 2 options just aren't enough bike for me.

Like @Pauliemon and others have said, it's not as simple or clear cut as that.

A FF (full fat - 500w+ peak power motored bike) will generally be heavier than a "lightweight" (this is all relative) - that's not to say it can't be the other way round. Something like a Lapierre Overvolt GLP2 Team with Mary's on will weigh in at about 21kg's (46 lbs). Early E-Sommets were similar, older Levo's in the right spec also. Newer levo's often can be high 21's, low 22's. Get a Kenevo SL or an Aluminium rise and up all the SSS springy/stoppy/spinny bits to chunky items and you're potentially heading into the same weight zone.

I think I'm right in presuming that you want a bike with more travel. This will generally lead to a bike which is heavier, not just from suspension, but presumably you won't go for 170/180mm and then run the lightest trail tyres you can find purely for the desire of a Rolls Royce fire road experience.

If you just want to be knackered an FF bike will guarantee you that straight out of the box .. Just move the thing around a bit or ride it with the motor off. A lot of EWS and DH riders train off season with FF EMTB's with the power off (not really).

It's re-posting from the Lyke thread as an example again (I'll claim senility and being boring is ok after 50)

That wasn't peak power/assistance but I eased off to take the screen capture. But basically, even in Turbo on a FF Kenevo, with the right terrain you could empty the battery in 5km's and still have ejected your lungs onto the trail at the same time.

Yes, "Turbo" doesn't "require" you to put huge effort in to receive assistance, but if you want to go faster or it's stupidly steep - you still need to.

Ultimately, an FF bike will reward you with a higher average speed and/or more range for the same effort than a "lightweight". But a lightweight will reward you with a lighter bike to move around which will most likely be more responsive on the trails.

There is no "perfect" - it's all compromises and because we all want different things you need to remain open minded and ideally try different things before you buy and more than once. What feels great one day, might feel like crap the next. Feeling is also not a total guide. My Jam2 "feels" consistently faster than my Kenevo going DH. However, my Kenevo is consistently Considerably faster going DH. Then you ask what do you want ? To go faster, or to feel/enjoy the riding ? Again, a different answer for everyone.

 

[Pauliemon]

What feels great one day, might feel like crap the next. Feeling is also not a total guide. My Jam2 "feels" consistently faster than my Kenevo going DH. However, my Kenevo is consistently Considerably faster going DH. Then you ask what do you want ? To go faster, or to feel/enjoy the riding ? Again, a different answer for everyone.

Can't explain it any better than this.