Article Testing the new Shimano EP8 motor

[steve_sordy]

Shimano told me the E8000 was being discontinued. They’ll keep some for warranty but won’t continue producing them.

I do not like the sound of that!
As @Dirtnvert said, stocks of the e8000 are already low. What am I supposed to do with my bike if I can't get a motor and it's not repairable. If that happened I would never buy a bike with a Shimano motor, ever again. If they can do this once, they will do it again.
Thinking about it for a little bit longer, I would extend my personal ban from just motors to a bike with any Shimano kit of any kind!
Shimano need to get on top of this!

 

[stiv674]

Annoyingly I doubt they'll care about a few pissed off existing customers, just think of all the new ones they'll be getting for the shiny new motor, people who are unaware of any long term issues.

 

[steve_sordy]

Annoyingly I doubt they'll care about a few pissed off existing customers, just think of all the new ones they'll be getting for the shiny new motor, people who are unaware of any long term issues.

It's not just a few existing customers. The entire current customer base, built up since the intro of Shimano motors are potential repeat purchasers. Why piss them off unnecessarily? If sufficiently pissed off they may stop buying ALL Shimano products; there are so many competitors it's easy to do.

 

[STATO]

It's not just a few existing customers. The entire current customer base, built up since the intro of Shimano motors are potential repeat purchasers. Why piss them off unnecessarily? If sufficiently pissed off they may stop buying ALL Shimano products; there are so many competitors it's easy to do.

I appreciate you are angry but you are blowing it up a bit too much. We dont know anything about when they will stop producing E8000 or how many they have, but Shimano are not in the business of not being able to satisfy warranty requirements, given it is a legal obligation and the people who will be put out are the bike shops (shimanos actual customers that they do have to care about) as your contract is with the shop and if they cant get a motor they have to give you a working bike at their cost. In the future can you buy a E8000 out of warrenty? maybe stocks will be hard to find, but they arnt exactly simple to buy right now. And if it comes to the worst and you cant pay your own money for an E8000, the E7000 will fit right in its place. Maybe a downgrade but its not a total loss.

 

[stiv674]

It's not just a few existing customers. The entire current customer base, built up since the intro of Shimano motors are potential repeat purchasers. Why piss them off unnecessarily? If sufficiently pissed off they may stop buying ALL Shimano products; there are so many competitors it's easy to do.

True, it would help if they weren't so secretive, they must know an approximate failure rate for the e8000, maybe they will stockpile enough to cover that...

Like a lot on here, I've been waiting for news on the new motor and while it does appear slightly better than the Bosch for me I'm not that bothered about switching to what appears to be a brand with better customer service.

 

[maynard]

Unlike Bosch, who tuck you in at night and send you Christmas cards?

None of these companies want to be your friend - there's nothing unique to Shimano in this.

Ur forgetting specialized. They give complementary blow job's whilst doing routine motor changes . So yeah they care alot

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

App has been updated. Just tried it. Pretty neat.

 

[STATO]

App has been updated. Just tried it. Pretty neat.

Ive not seen it mentioned but im assuming the new APP doesnt work with E7000/8000?

 

[davosaurusrex]

For what it's worth just picked up my Vitus from the shop with a new E8000 fitted, Madison UK got a delivery last week. As I said I'm quite relieved it's not an EP8!

Was told it should have a new 2 year warranty but not got that in writing, think I'll drop Madison an email and ask them to confirm

 

[RickBullotta]

App has been updated. Just tried it. Pretty neat.

Except that it isn't reliable and fails most of the time. It's a buggy piece of sh*t. Can't create an ID or log in. Just hangs. Shimano needs to get software development moved to the EU or the USA.

 

[Sean1.0]

App has been updated. Just tried it. Pretty neat.

View attachment 39410

Has it fixed the bag of nails in the motor ?

 

[RickBullotta]

Has it fixed the bag of nails in the motor ?

No, but it throws a bag of nails into your mobile device. Hold off on updating until they fix some bugs.

 

[downunderdallas]

Don't install the new app and update firmware it will brick your bike!! Rob you should warn people not to do it.

 

[downunderdallas]

App has been updated. Just tried it. Pretty neat.

View attachment 39410

Rob this new app is not great on a E8000 it bricked my bike!

 

[Grizzy]

Hows it feel pedaling with no assist compared to the Brose and the SL motors?

Enjoying my SL but ride with power off alot. Wouldnt mind the option for more power and stil be able to ride analog untill im gassed. For reference, can get up well over 20mph on the sl stock on flat ground.

when I rode a heckler once i hit 20 it felt dramatically harder to accelerate on flat ground. No measures but it was NOT encouraging. The Levo felt similar.

shimano claims a 30% reduction in drag. Is that enough to bridge the gap between E8000/brose motors and the SL when riding w/o assist?

 

[steve_sordy]

I appreciate you are angry but you are blowing it up a bit too much. We dont know anything about when they will stop producing E8000 or how many they have, but Shimano are not in the business of not being able to satisfy warranty requirements, given it is a legal obligation and the people who will be put out are the bike shops (shimanos actual customers that they do have to care about) as your contract is with the shop and if they cant get a motor they have to give you a working bike at their cost. In the future can you buy a E8000 out of warrenty? maybe stocks will be hard to find, but they arnt exactly simple to buy right now. And if it comes to the worst and you cant pay your own money for an E8000, the E7000 will fit right in its place. Maybe a downgrade but its not a total loss.

No not angry, disappointed with Shimano yes. They should be making things a lot clearer and communicating better. You are correct that it is the manufacturers and the retailers that pay Shimano's invoices, but it is the end user who is the ultimate customer. Yes, Shimano have to work with the manufacturers to help with bike design and for them to input on design requirements. They also have to work with the retailers and put together a good retail proposition. And both have to have some sort of warranty cover. But Shimano has to stay in touch with its ultimate customer and keep them happy. I would not be at all surprised if Shimano was also doing end user surveys into what they actually want and think. If every customer refused to have anything to do with Shimano, they would soon be guaranteeing to maintain stocks of e8000. The auto manufacturers keep spares for 10 years, how long will Shimano and others in their position be keeping spares?

I confess that when I hear that the EP8 was not backwards compatible, my heart sank a bit. I'm now in the weird position of almost hoping my motor will fail before the two years are up and I can get a new e8000 motor out of it. But there is no sign of failure yet, which is why I have been singing Shimano's praises so far.

If my motor fails outside warranty and I have to pay for a new motor, OK fair enough. Sad, but not angry at all.
If my motor fails outside warranty and I cannot buy a replacement, then I will be angry!

 

[TheBikePilot]

No not angry, disappointed with Shimano yes. They should be making things a lot clearer and communicating better. You are correct that it is the manufacturers and the retailers that pay Shimano's invoices, but it is the end user who is the ultimate customer. Yes, Shimano have to work with the manufacturers to help with bike design and for them to input on design requirements. They also have to work with the retailers and put together a good retail proposition. And both have to have some sort of warranty cover. But Shimano has to stay in touch with its ultimate customer and keep them happy. I would not be at all surprised if Shimano was also doing end user surveys into what they actually want and think. If every customer refused to have anything to do with Shimano, they would soon be guaranteeing to maintain stocks of e8000. The auto manufacturers keep spares for 10 years, how long will Shimano and others in their position be keeping spares?

I confess that when I hear that the EP8 was not backwards compatible, my heart sank a bit. I'm now in the weird position of almost hoping my motor will fail before the two years are up and I can get a new e8000 motor out of it. But there is no sign of failure yet, which is why I have been singing Shimano's praises so far.

If my motor fails outside warranty and I have to pay for a new motor, OK fair enough. Sad, but not angry at all.
If my motor fails outside warranty and I cannot buy a replacement, then I will be angry!

No doubt a refurbishment company will pop up at this point @Bearing Man will most likely be your point of call outside of warranty.

 

[STATO]

If my motor fails outside warranty and I have to pay for a new motor, OK fair enough. Sad, but not angry at all.
If my motor fails outside warranty and I cannot buy a replacement, then I will be angry!

But as has been stated, E7000 will be available. This is standard industry approach of discontinuing the top-end stuff when new top-end stuff comes along, and supporting the older market with mid-level kit. You cant easily buy previous generation XTR once new stuff comes out, very little XT, but SLX and Deore hangs around for a while. I fully appreciate with a motor the performance difference is obviously different for motors, than talking about crank stiffness or 20gram weight differences, but the practice is the same.

 

[Bearing Man]

No doubt a refurbishment company will pop up at this point @Bearing Man will most likely be your point of call outside of warranty.

Sorry, currently not playing with Shimano. Too many software issues

 

[STATO]

Also id like to know more about what isnt backwards compatible?
What do they mean wiring harness? the wire to the battery, the speed sensor, the head unit? is the new switch not compatible, or old ones not work with EP8? Its not clear at all.

 

[R120]

I think its all pretty clear

New motor uses existing mounting system, aim of this is to make life easy for manufacturers to update their line ups without major design changes.

Wont be available to buy after market

EP8 ecosystem uses new wiring and connectors that aren't compatible with existing, but adaptors are available to enable with use of some components within existing Steps ecosystem.

If you where able to get hold of an EP8 then you would have to also re wire the bike too, again not much of a hassle, but you couldnt use the existing connectors.

The setting of the torque sensor is, I believe, to do with the angle the motor is mounted in the frame, but I may be wrong on this - I know within the Shimano service software there is a setting for this.

 

[RickBullotta]

I think its all pretty clear

New motor uses existing mounting system, aim of this is to make life easy for manufacturers to update their line ups without major design changes.

Wont be available to buy after market

EP8 ecosystem uses new wiring and connectors that aren't compatible with existing, but adaptors are available to enable with use of some components within existing Steps ecosystem.

If you where able to get hold of an EP8 then you would have to also re wire the bike too, again not much of a hassle, but you couldnt use the existing connectors.

The setting of the torque sensor is, I believe, to do with the angle the motor is mounted in the frame, but I may be wrong on this - I know within the Shimano service software there is a setting for this.

I have a message in to the CEO of one of the bike manufacturers that uses Shimano drive systems to discuss the feasibility of them offering an upgrade kit for existing bikes (drive unit, wiring adapters, covers/guards, etc).

 

[R120]

Personally I am very happy with the E8000, as I have said before its how the bike handles and rides that is most important to me, the only thing I really care about at this moment in time is the ability to run different size batteries depending on what ride I am doing, and luckily for me they have covered that with the new 630wh external battery. All these motors get you uphill in the way you want, and as long as the software doesn't make it ride horribly they are fit for purpose.

Whilst having more power is always nice, I never use boost, always just stick the bike in trail and go ride, and I cant say that I have ever been in a situation where I though "if only the bike had a bit more grunt..."

Really the software the motors run is far more important to the user experience, and how the power is delivered, I happen to like the way the e8000 delivers its power in what is a relatively subtle way compared to some of the other motors, but at the end of the day I would always choose a bike based off how it rides rather than the motor in it.

Thats why if I was in the market for a bike right now, despite my presence for the Shimano system, I would go for the Whyte e160 with the Bosch, simply because of all the new bikes I have tried it was the most fun. Luckily for my bank balance it wasn't any more fun than my Vitus!

 

[RickBullotta]

Personally I am very happy with the E8000, as I have said before its how the bike handles and rides that is most important to me, the only thing I really care about at this moment in time is the ability to run different size batteries depending on what ride I am doing, and luckily for me they have covered that with the new 630wh external battery. All these motors get you uphill in the way you want, and as long as the software doesn't make it ride horribly they are fit for purpose.

Whilst having more power is always nice, I never use boost, always just stick the bike in trail and go ride, and I cant say that I have ever been in a situation where I though "if only the bike had a bit more grunt..."

Really the software the motors run is far more important to the user experience, and how the power is delivered, I happen to like the way the e8000 delivers its power in what is a relatively subtle way compared to some of the other motors, but at the end of the day I would always choose a bike based off how it rides rather than the motor in it.

Thats why if I was in the market for a bike right now, despite my presence for the Shimano system, I would go for the Whyte e160 with the Bosch, simply because of all the new bikes I have tried it was the most fun. Luckily for my bank balance it wasn't any more fun than my Vitus!

My major complaint with the E8000 and the existing Shimano software/firmware/approach is the way power cuts off prematurely (at 18.0-18.5 MPH). Supposedly that has been tweaked a bit with the EP800. I do wish it had more "top end".

 

[steve_sordy]

But as has been stated, E7000 will be available. This is standard industry approach of discontinuing the top-end stuff when new top-end stuff comes along, and supporting the older market with mid-level kit. You cant easily buy previous generation XTR once new stuff comes out, very little XT, but SLX and Deore hangs around for a while. I fully appreciate with a motor the performance difference is obviously different for motors, than talking about crank stiffness or 20gram weight differences, but the practice is the same.

Comparing Shimano's obsolescence procedures of XTR with the e8000 motor might be the same practice, but the impact is not the same at all. Your old XTR mech breaks, fine replace it with the new one. It will still bolt on to your mech hanger and it will still work with the rest of the bike. You will still get all the benefits of the XTR proposition. You will not be forced to use an inferior product as an alternative to scrapping the bike. And don't forget that even the inferior e7000 motor is many many times the cost of an XTR mech.

 

[TheBikePilot]

I would imagine they will honour the warranty on the system as long as it is valid. It's probably being discontinued to manufacturers to encourage them to use the EP8 on new releases, and there's no reason not to with the bolts etc being in the same place.

I really can't see them walking away from the system completely for existing users..? Maybe if it goes kaput in 4 years time you may have to get an EP8 and it's been established how to do the upgrade.

There's many a clever person on the forum who will no doubt work it out..

 

[steve_sordy]

I would imagine they will honour the warranty on the system as long as it is valid. It's probably being discontinued to manufacturers to encourage them to use the EP8 on new releases, and there's no reason not to with the bolts etc being in the same place.

I really can't see them walking away from the system completely for existing users..? Maybe if it goes kaput in 4 years time you may have to get an EP8 and it's been established how to do the upgrade.

There's many a clever person on the forum who will no doubt work it out..

Shimano have had plenty of time to work out what their position is. They are a massive company and have the resources to prepare their policy and to communicate it. They have failed to do so, so far. Poor effort!

This should not be left to some clever person on the forum to address.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Still would like to know how much vertical climbing can be obtained with the EP8 and 630wh battery.

Has it been confirmed if the new 630wh internal battery can be used on E8000 internal battery bikes? I see mention in the past of no, but R120 above says an external 630wh will work on a E8000 bike.

I'm fine with my '20 Meta Power but want more battery for more vertical. Would love to do 8k ft climbing days regularly.

 

[R120]

Still would like to know how much vertical climbing can be obtained with the EP8 and 630wh battery.

Has it been confirmed if the new 630wh internal battery can be used on E8000 internal battery bikes? I see mention in the past of no, but R120 above says an external 630wh will work on a E8000 bike.

I'm fine with my '20 Meta Power but want more battery for more vertical. Would love to do 8k ft climbing days regularly.

Yes the new internal batteries will technical work with the e8000, the restricting factor is if your bike can take the new battery, which is unlikely.The Singletrack video has some good info on elevation and range - also interesting use of the new walk mode!

 

[raine]

Browsing the latest this morning, I'm kind of glad there's a lot of people speaking up with the disappointment of the EP8 across a bunch of media channels. Especially the part about how (unless Shimano officially addresses the concern) it seems like they just turned their backs on all the E8000 owners.

Also, the new E-Tube app looks a lot better - but has issues. I tried testing last night, whenever I went to adjust assist modes I kept getting this screen, then if I try getting out of this screen the app crashes:

With the old E-Tube app (luckily I didn't update yet on my other devices) I connected to the same eMTB perfectly fine and could change assist modes with no problems.