Article Testing the new Shimano EP8 motor

[Sean1.0]

Was patiently waiting for EP8 bikes but I think that coasting clatter is a dealbreaker for me if its a feature of the motor.

Thx for the reviews

 

[Levo-Lon]

So if this new motor has built in detection,that may kill sales as lots love to fiddle with the speed limit.
Just trying a planet3 type Gizmo will invalidate warranty.

 

[R120]

The key thing for me is that it retains the natural feel of power delivery that the E8000 has - personally I have always loved the Shimano as it IMO most accurately mimics the pedal inputs and riding style of a normal bike, I find most of the other motors have the power come on in what to me is not a natural feeling way, primarily with too much power in the initial pedal strokes. I still ride normal bikes a lot and with the Shimano its just like jumping on another bike but assisted, whereas with the Bosch for example it just doesn't feel like a natural amplification of normal riding, but something totally different, and this gives me a slightly disconnected feel from the bike - neither is right or wrong, but thats my preference.

 

[davosaurusrex]

Not really the great leap forward I'd been hoping for. The rattling, anti tamper software and still lacking bearing serviceability all negatives for me. Picking up my E-Sommet with new motor under warranty tomorrow, had been hoping it would be an EP8 but not bothered now!

 

[raine]

Everyone asking if they can upgrade their E8000 to the new EP8...

...what I'm more interested in is if the new SC-EM800 display is backward-compatible with E8000, and if there's any new trickle-down features in the E-Tube app.

 

[knut7]

Everyone asking if they can upgrade their E8000 to the new EP8...

...what I'm more interested in is if the new SC-EM800 display is backward-compatible with E8000, and if there's any new trickle-down features in the E-Tube app.

Yeah, this is interesting, and it could be possible. There are two new displays for the EP8, the SC-EM800 and the Bosch Purion-style SC-E5003. These will connect to prevoius motors (E8000, 7000, 6100, 5000) using some sort of conversion adapter. I haven't found this adapter on the Shimano website yet. It would be really cool if this allowed us to use the new E-Tube app with extra tweaking options and two user profiles. I will be looking into this.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

What I'm most interested in is how much climbing does the new motor and battery allow. Currently I've got a '20 Commencal Meta Power 29 and can do around 4,250ft or 1300m on the 504wh bike. That's using a bit of trail and mostly eco. Since the battery is 25% bigger I'd assume to get at least that much more climbing but if Shimano is claiming increased efficiency and less drag I am quite curious if that will allow even more vertical to be climbed per charged. The battery size is probably my biggest complaint of my '20 Meta Power.

Also I have quite a bit of clutch noise on this bike. My '19 Meta Power was quieter on that. I bought this bike used else I'd pursue warranty regarding the clutch noise but I've learned to live with it although I go to great lengths to create a quiet bike.

 

[Rosemount]

G day Knut

Thanks for taking the time .
I have been a fan of your You Tube channel for some time . I like your attention to details .

Keep up the good work .

 

[TheBikePilot]

It does feel just as natural as the E8000. Very much so. The Trail setting means it's pretty much fire and forget all day. Didn't fiddle with the app as it wasn't out at the time, but it looks great.

Also, the W013 error has been fixed so feet on the pedals at startup doesn't throw an error. I did get an error if you pedal as you start up so not totally fixed but much better.

I wouldn't say it feels as powerful as the Bosch or the Brose as it's not as 'punchy' but if you like a natural feeling bike, that's going to please you.

It's a gnats cock away from being brilliant, just the rattling is quite annoying as it seems worse on flat bumpy fire roads and roots.

 

[TheBikePilot]

@Rob Rides EMTB Do you have any info on some sub £5k bikes with the new motor?

Not sure if you can get Husqvarna in the UK but there's quite a few here: Husqvarna 2021 eMTB lineup: All-new Extreme Cross, Hard Cross and Mountain Cross models feature Shimano’s new EP8 motor | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[Crawford919]

I love how they say the bearings aren’t serviceable. You don’t have to search hard to find people with play in the cranks on the old motor after relatively little time. I guess you just throw these motors away like you throw a LED bulb away that also claims to last forever.

 

[MattyB]

So if this new motor has built in detection,that may kill sales as lots love to fiddle with the speed limit.
Just trying a planet3 type Gizmo will invalidate warranty.

In the EU manufacturers are expected to add anti tamper functionality now, every new motor released will have it in Europe at least.

 

[MattyB]

I love how they say the bearings aren’t serviceable. You don’t have to search hard to find people with play in the cranks on the old motor after relatively little time. I guess you just throw these motors away like you throw a LED bulb away that also claims to last forever.

I know, we need to get @Gary on an EP8 equipped bike asap and see how quickly he can break the new bearings...

 

[KeithR]

In the EU manufacturers are expected to add anti tamper functionality now, every new motor released will have it in Europe at least.

I don't know of any current main manufacturer motors that don't aggressively seek out tampering and punish the rider for it.

 

[Gary]

I know, we need to get @Gary on an EP8 equipped bike asap and see how quickly he can break the new bearings...

#GoFundGary
#youknowitmakessense

just the rattling is quite annoying as it seems worse on flat bumpy fire roads and roots.

is it actually a rattle or just the same engagement/disengagement knock the E8000 has when the chainring goes from rotating to under power to freewheeling and vice versa? this happens a lot over rough ground partly because of suspension induced chaingrowth and partly because of less than free freehub mechanisms - if you video'd an E8000 crank freewheeling from the driveside you'd see the chainring actually rotate forwards a few teeth at a time. it even does it on smooth surfaces at high speed
I guess if Shimano have reduced the EP8s drag even more than almost non existant drag of the E8000 this could be contributing to this happening even more.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

No we just need high idler design emtbs, no chaingrowth.

 

[TheBikePilot]

#GoFundGary
#youknowitmakessense


is it actually a rattle or just the same engagement/disengagement knock the E8000 has when the chainring goes from rotating to under power to freewheeling and vice versa? this happens a lot over rough ground partly because of suspension induced chaingrowth and partly because of less than free freehub mechanisms - if you video'd an E8000 crank freewheeling from the driveside you'd see the chainring actually rotate forwards a few teeth at a time. it even does it on smooth surfaces at high speed
I guess if Shimano have reduced the EP8s drag even more than almost non existant drag of the E8000 this could be contributing to this happening even more.

No it definitely seems louder than that..

Have a listen...

 

[TheBikePilot]

I don't know of any current main manufacturer motors that don't aggressively seek out tampering and punish the rider for it.

Sadly they are following EU law. They don't want to do it any more than you want it, believe me!

Speaking to a couple of the manufacturer's someone has to sign off the bike as a design lead, and if it's deemed they didn't do everything they could to stop it being de-restricted and someone, god forbid, kills someone etc they personally end up liable. Sucks.

 

[KeithR]

Sadly they are following EU law. They don't want to do it any more than you want it, believe me!

Speaking to a couple of the manufacturer's someone has to sign off the bike as a design lead, and if it's deemed they didn't do everything they could to stop it being de-restricted and someone, god forbid, kills someone etc they personally end up liable. Sucks.

Yeah, I know. I've been spending a fair bit of time lately looking for loopholes - I'm still not 100% convinced that motor manufacturers are as vulnerable to accusations of complicity, given that it's so easy to get beyond the restriction speed just by pedalling - but I'm not as committed to the venture as I might have been when I was still earning a living as a legal professional; and because I don't even notice when I'm beyond the support limit on my Levo SL, I'm just less vested personally these days.

But this is what makes a mockery of the whole situation - who's to say that a fatal incident was entirely the result of derestriction?

Good luck proving that. In the only applicable case law in the UK that I'm aware of, the cyclist was acquitted, and the fact that he was apparently on a derestricted bike entirely ignored - possibly because although he was going "too quickly", he was still only riding at a speed achievable by normal bikes...

 

[eTrax]

Hey look Brose! No plastic gears...

I like the semi-natural feel of the E8k. I think its good to let a year pass before jumping onto new product release's.

 

[towzer]

Re EU legislation, If only it was a washing machine

EU brings in 'right to repair' rules for appliances

The rules will make household appliances longer-lasting and easier to fix.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[raine]

Watched the videos again... not too thrilled, kind of disappointed - although I happen to be an E-8000 owner who's perfectly happy with it (not wondering if I could upgrade for the small bump in performance) and not so much riding the EP8 hype train.

So far from all the info I've read/seen here and from other reviews/previews, there's a major failure here - the clunking noise.

"Shimano is aware of this rattling noise; they're basically saying this is a compromise they have to accept in order to make the motor good in other areas"

WHAT?

The fact that Shimano said they are fully aware of it and said it is a compromise is right. From the videos, it sounds like parts are loose! And saying "well the Bosch makes the same noise" doesn't excuse it - it doesn't matter what flaws other motors have.

 

[Alldayridernz]

That is disappointing regarding the retro fit - I have them same question though. What if you need a replacement motor? They have to offer it if the 8000 is discontinued. Also although it seems worse on the EP8 I'm really surprised of this 'news' of the rattle noise. I purchased a Meta Power SX with the E8000 last year and contacted the agent after one ride as I thought there was something wrong with it the rattle was so loud.

 

[R120]

I think we all have to remember that we are still at the Genisis of EMTB, the bikes, the motors, the software and indeed the legislation of the bikes is still evolving constantly.

Its important to remember that its everything that surround the motor, i.e the bike itself, thats the most important part - we are lucky in that we now have 6 or 7 really good motor systems, that all do the job, but may have foibles.

My main concern with the emtb market in general is that we still dont see too many bikes where designers have looked to ignore conventional design and look at how to design and EMTB optimised for riding over one that looks like a normal bike as much as possible - the La Pierre GLP being an example of outside the box thinking. Trying to make an EMTB look as much as possible like a normal mtb leads to compromises in handling/weight/packaging etc on a lot of bikes.

E.G I am sure many brands could make a better bike if they stuck with the external battery, but market forces dictate they have to go with the internal.

 

[R120]

Is the e8000 actually discontinued though? My impression is that it isn't, its just superseded at the top of the motor range by the EP8. @knut7 or @Rob Rides EMTB are you able to shed any light on this?

Also is the new app compatible with the E8/7000 motors? And the new software going tope accessible to them?

From a personal perspective I am glad I stuck with my Vitus, and it looks like I will stick with it for a bit longer - I will upgrade to the new 630wh external battery as this is easily retrofittable to the bike when it comes out, but stick with using the 504wh battery for most rides, but loving the fact I now have the option of different battery sizes that can be easily swapped out depending on the ride I am doing, which is something I have wanted from an EMTB for a long time - I only wish there was a lightweight 350wh is battery available too

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Shimano told me the E8000 was being discontinued. They’ll keep some for warranty but won’t continue producing them.

 

[R120]

Shimano told me the E8000 was being discontinued. They’ll keep some for warranty but won’t continue producing them.

Interesting - I presume this means some other motors in the works? Or are they just going with the single motor across all applications now

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Interesting - I presume this means some other motors in the works? Or are they just going with the single motor across all applications now

They are keeping the E7000 ?

 

[baldiebenty]

If they're discontinuing the E8000 then surely they will have to produce a way to upgrade, if they're keeping "some" for warranty what happens when they run out? If someones E8000 goes pop after that?
I've just got a Decoy and I'm not bothered about changing the motor as it's plenty grin-inducing for me right now but I'm thinking longer term like 18 months down the road, especially as I don't give any of my kit an easy time.

 

[Dirtnvert]

I find it hard to believe that theyll have stock of e8000's for warrantee. Where are these imaginary motors? They havent had stock in canada for atleast a month and a half for warrantee. Even with international shipping as slow as it is right now, a month and a half is long enough for a national distributor to restock whats needed. Is there a final production round happening? Seems unlikely they could produce enough to cover all the existing units sold with a final production round. Why arent shimano addressing any of these qudstions people have? Bit of a ponzi scheme with these guys