• Warning!!

    Riding a tuned or deristricted EMTB is not a trivial offence and can have serious legal consequences. Also, many manufacturers can detect the use of a tuning device or deristricting method and may decline a repair under warranty if it was modified from the intended original specification. Deristricting EMTB's can also add increased loads for motors and batteries. Riding above the local law limit may reclassify the bike as a low-powered bike, requiring insurance, registration and a number plate.

    Be aware of your local country laws. Many laws prohibit use of modified EMTB's. It is your responsibility to check local laws. Ignoring it, has potential implications to trail access, and risk of prosecution in the event of an accident.

    UK Pedelec Law

    Worldwide Laws

    We advise members great caution. EMTB Forums accepts no liability for any content or advice given here. 


Talk about derestricting / modifying bikes. Allowed or not? Poll - vote now!

Content that include derestricting, hacking and modding engines to circumvent local laws

  • I think that is should not be allowed and should be removed

    Votes: 10 25.0%
  • I think it should be allowed and stay as a source of information

    Votes: 30 75.0%

  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
@Rob The issue with results based action is that the method used to get the result is not emphasized enough. Should we not question why some less savory/ethical methods are chosen over more considerate methods? Being made aware of local laws and breaking them are not mutually inclusive.

It's easy to forgive something when there's truly no harm done. When there is harm done, most civilians are quick to step back and play the blame game, to avoid accountability. I was raised with different morals. I took my fair share of group punishments--I've learned to be more involved and more community-like, to rescue and support fellow members if they do bad, not by asking for mercy/forgiveness, but to make up for it by paying in some manner than results in a win-win situation. If we did something, we did it together. It's a powerful feeling, and a dangerous one, hence why we introduced guiding principles (core values) to direct the group. This worked out far more efficiently than any sort of democracy. It could be as simple as, "Do no evil."

@Hedge Monkey Renewable energy comes with costs. Wind farms kill birds, including offshore ones. Solar is relatively expensive, takes up real estate, and there's limited sun hours which varies throughout the year. They're variable and require storage and flexible demand. It's a lot more complex than you think. It's ignorant to say they're the future, arrogant to speak for others, and hypocritical to preach it if you don't happen to practice it. We live in the present and work with what we have. We'd probably be better off living underground too, but we don't. Face the facts.

AeroDrag.png


As I said before, going faster than 15.5 mph comes with significant aero drag. This simple graph shows this relation in terms of cycling. Be glad the motor isn't limited to 12 mph.

What problem does derestricting your motor solve? What benefit does it provide humanity? Is it virtuous or merely selfish? Think of the downsides and byproducts... if you say there aren't any, or struggle to find any significance in them, you might be in denial.

Did you know car manufacturers optimize their gearing to coincide with certain speed limits for better fuel economy? What happens when speed limits in certain areas change, does gearing change with it or is the choice of being inefficient left with the drivers, who may be ignorant of such compromise?

If we had abundant affordable and clean energy, a lot of problems would be solved, including this one. Perhaps throw some of your support at fusion power and make this solution a possibility.

Don't forget that your argument can be turned against you. If you extol the virtues of being low impact and compare to the inefficiency in other systems (which provide a utilitarian benefit), others can say the same about ebikes regarding how walking or using regular bikes are even lower impact. Your method of asking for progress assumes that progress is needed.

I personally have the impression that first world countries are inventing a whole lot of silly problems for themselves. I see the world reacting to pressure to change, but don't see much pressure here. I just see self-centered greed, envy, and a bit of wrath (grudges). I also see the ugliness of democracy... I'd say more about this, but can tell people are emotionally attached and begrudging stick to their choice, treating any opposing reason as a personal insult. I suppose I'll share this analogy, where I perceive this similarly to a scenario in which a grown child questions their parents about disadvantages regarding their genetics and/or their birth place and seeks to take action themselves to change that illegally (e.g. doping or forged documents), aiming to meet some personal standard they created.

P.S. I'm interested in reading scientific papers studying the feasibility of solar and wind replacing fossil fuel, that prove they're the future. I do look out for it, but haven't seen anything besides the typical vaporware (e.g. promising tech). I'm wondering people know something I don't, bringing up such a topic...
 
Last edited:

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
Do you not see the irony of someone who does not want the topic discussed taking up more real estate on the subject than anyone else......

Tiresome isn’t it Getting fed up with the preacher tonight for sure

Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.jpg

Wish I could find people willing to engage in high level arguments. Not high level in terms of choosing a topic with strong impact, but in terms of not devolving into the lower levels of this diagram.

Shame behavior for immorality, not because of disagreement.
 

Japuserid

Active member
Patreon
Founding Member
Jan 18, 2018
293
252
Cornwall, UK
View attachment 623
Wish I could find people willing to engage in high level arguments. Not high level in terms of choosing a topic with strong impact, but in terms of not devolving into the lower levels of this diagram.

Shame behavior for immorality, not because of disagreement.

Varaxis, you make it impossible to refute a 'central point' as your basic premise has become very confused and rambling.

Please, we do not require another morality lecture at this stage, there will be plenty of time to enlighten us all on the subject later, if the vote is passed.

A simple yes or no would be fine.
 

Eckythump

Well-known member
Founding Member
Jan 16, 2018
832
680
North Yorkshire
Wish I could find people willing to engage in high level arguments. Not high level in terms of choosing a topic with strong impact, but in terms of not devolving into the lower levels of this diagram.
I believe I was making an observation, not name calling.
My point being you clearly have opinions and lots to say on the subject yet you wish all discussion on the topic to be eliminated from the forum.
Discussion is not limited to ‘pro’ only it can also highlight the negatives.

I find it surprising someone who has fought to defend democracy seems to have such a disdain for the concept, seemingly preferring the collective ‘we know better than you’ attitude of established politicians A large number of voters around the world have seen fit to topple in recent times.
 

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
I believe I was making an observation, not name calling.
My point being you clearly have opinions and lots to say on the subject yet you wish all discussion on the topic to be eliminated from the forum.

Do I understand this right: you made an observation of the size of the post and labeled it irony, claiming I have a lot to say on "the subject" and that I am against "discussion about the topic"? You refute your post did not devolve to the lower levels of that disagreement diagram. You misunderstand on all counts. Should I write paragraphs to explain why, or can you convince me that you don't misunderstand, perhaps by reading my posts? I'll at least say that my posts have been more about refuting the reasoning of others and about laws, communities, and morals in general, than about ebikes and derestricting their motors.

I find it surprising someone who has fought to defend democracy seems to have such a disdain for the concept, seemingly preferring the collective ‘we know better than you’ attitude of established politicians A large number of voters around the world have seen fit to topple in recent times.

You misunderstand again. I did not fight to defend democracy. Democracy is not the same as freedom. The campaigns were named "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and "Operation Enduring Freedom", not Iraqi Democracy. Shall I write more, or can you read what I've already written about freedom in my prior post(s)?

A collective "we know better than you" attitude? That's going back to the lower levels of disagreement. You demean a group of people with a particular skillset, with disrespect. Close guess, but you misunderstand again. I'll concede that I prefer those who have the ability to have their arguments hold up better to questioning than the "beliefs" and personal perspectives of people here.

Discussion is not limited to ‘pro’ only it can also highlight the negatives.

Since you brought this up, let me ask: what are the cons of derestricting a motor? What are the cons of having content that include derestricting, hacking and modding engines to circumvent local laws on a public forum?

Varaxis, you make it impossible to refute a 'central point' as your basic premise has become very confused and rambling.

I made my basic premise impossible to refute as it has become very confused and rambling? I'm confused by your claim. Can you elaborate? Is it my fault? In an attempt to solve the problem, here's my basic premise re-worded:

Breaking the law is unethical, and telling the internet about it hurts the reputation of the forum/community.

It's not impossible to refute. You can claim a greater good to justify actions as if you were like Robin Hood, Batman, etc. You can claim the law is unjust, and follow the actions of MLK Jr.

Please, we do not require another morality lecture at this stage, there will be plenty of time to enlighten us all on the subject later, if the vote is passed.

A simple yes or no would be fine.

What authority do you have to speak for others and declare such oppression of my freedom? That's bordering on tyrannical if you actually had any power/dictatorship.

I honestly believe the overwhelming majority of E bike owners, just like normal bike owners, are decent, polite, respectful and responsible people

Belief is an illusion. If you want this to be a reality, how about practicing what you preach?
 
Last edited:

Japuserid

Active member
Patreon
Founding Member
Jan 18, 2018
293
252
Cornwall, UK
[QUOTE="Varaxis, post: 1782

Breaking the law is unethical, and telling the internet about it hurts the reputation of the forum/community.

So that's a no then? :LOL:
 

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
[QUOTE="Varaxis, post: 1782

Breaking the law is unethical, and telling the internet about it hurts the reputation of the forum/community.

So that's a no then? :LOL:

o_O You didn't state a question that called for a yes or no answer. Is there any question that could be implied from the quote of mine and your last post?

If I am allowed to assume that you refer to the topic question, I've already voted in favor of not allowing. Was that not clearly implied from my posts?
 

Slowroller

Well-known member
Founding Member
Jan 15, 2018
494
496
Wyoming
Wo there
We are talking about being able to peddle a 250w Motor to its full potential .

Since this is a worldwide forum, my assumption is that we'd also be talking about derestricting a 750w motor to go over 20 mph? Or modding a 750w motor to put out far more watts than that? Which would put all of our future ebike riding in jeopardy. I think it should be acknowledged here, but not promoted. No how to tips.
 

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
Future of emtbforums: "Forum in which the majority openly support derestricting, hacking and modding engines to circumvent local laws"

Would you be proud of this reputation? Will you proudly stand being labeled/categorized in a way that shamefully describes you and the beliefs of the group you are associated with?
 

Hedge Monkey

New Member
Feb 25, 2018
31
29
Uk
Since this is a worldwide forum, my assumption is that we'd also be talking about derestricting a 750w motor to go over 20 mph? Or modding a 750w motor to put out far more watts than that? Which would put all of our future ebike riding in jeopardy. I think it should be acknowledged here, but not promoted. No how to tips.
Since this is a worldwide forum, my assumption is that we'd also be talking about derestricting a 750w motor to go over 20 mph? Or modding a 750w motor to put out far more watts than that? Which would put all of our future ebike riding in jeopardy. I think it should be acknowledged here, but not promoted. No how to tips.
Sorry for being nieve.
didn't even know 750w bikes existed..
but they do well i think this proves one point
i have learnt somthing.
also world wide forum so should we accommodate all walks of peddle assist.
Also America has probably got states bigger than the uk would it also not be true that huge areas of private land could are being used with these things legally
So any mods would not be illegal.
i for one have joined this forum to learn and make my own decisions on what i do and do not do,
Just because i see a crazy american trying to jump the grand canion dont mean im going to try to jump the bristol channel...LOL
.
 

Japuserid

Active member
Patreon
Founding Member
Jan 18, 2018
293
252
Cornwall, UK
Future of emtbforums: "Forum in which the majority openly support derestricting, hacking and modding engines to circumvent local laws"

Would you be proud of this reputation? Will you proudly stand being labeled/categorized in a way that shamefully describes you and the beliefs of the group you are associated with?

Varaxis FYI

forum
/ˈfɔːrəm/
noun (pl) -rums, -ra (-rə)
1.
a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
2.
a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
3.
a public meeting place for open discussion

I for one will be extremely proud if we are able to carry this vote.

It is about preserving our freedom to think and freedom to speak and I have to say I find your opposition to this basic human right, to be quite disturbing.
 

Eckythump

Well-known member
Founding Member
Jan 16, 2018
832
680
North Yorkshire
Do I understand this right: you made an observation of the size of the post and labeled it irony, claiming I have a lot to say on "the subject" and that I am against "discussion about the topic"? You refute your post did not devolve to the lower levels of that disagreement diagram. You misunderstand on all counts. Should I write paragraphs to explain why, or can you convince me that you don't misunderstand, perhaps by reading my posts? I'll at least say that my posts have been more about refuting the reasoning of others and about laws, communities, and morals in general, than about ebikes and derestricting their motors.

The irony being you have clearly stated you believe the forum should not have discussion on the topic as outlined at the head of the thread and have stated again since my post, yet you continue to share you thoughts and have things you wish to discuss on the subject e.g.

Since you brought this up, let me ask: what are the cons of derestricting a motor? What are the cons of having content that include derestricting, hacking and modding engines to circumvent local laws on a public forum?

To me, discussion on a topic is good and should be encouraged.

In brief response to some of your questions, some disadvantages are:- Increased power consumption from the battery during a ride, potential for some issues on access, possible conflict with local laws if used in the wrong place or inappropriately.



You misunderstand again. I did not fight to defend democracy. Democracy is not the same as freedom. The campaigns were named "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and "Operation Enduring Freedom", not Iraqi Democracy. Shall I write more, or can you read what I've already written about freedom in my prior post(s)?

There were 8 mission objectives for Operation Iraqi Freedom, two of the are of interest in this context, i) End the regime of Saddam Hussein, viii) Help Iraq achieve representative self-government and insure its territorial integrity.

Sounds like you were there to remove a dictatorship and assist establishing an elected government to me, or am I thinking of the other Operation Iraqi Freedom????

A collective "we know better than you" attitude? That's going back to the lower levels of disagreement. You demean a group of people with a particular skillset, with disrespect. Close guess, but you misunderstand again. I'll concede that I prefer those who have the ability to have their arguments hold up better to questioning than the "beliefs" and personal perspectives of people here.

I guess this will be covered by the general nature of my post......




I made my basic premise impossible to refute as it has become very confused and rambling? I'm confused by your claim. Can you elaborate? Is it my fault? In an attempt to solve the problem, here's my basic premise re-worded:

Breaking the law is unethical, and telling the internet about it hurts the reputation of the forum/community.

It's not impossible to refute. You can claim a greater good to justify actions as if you were like Robin Hood, Batman, etc. You can claim the law is unjust, and follow the actions of MLK Jr.

Here in the UK, the selling, purchase, installation or use of a speed limiter bypass device, or software is not against the law. There may be a few exceptions around the world but to apply a generalism I am sure you will find most countries have a similar position.

Any conflict with the law comes from improper use on the public highway or byways or public areas where access is based on a pedalec's equivalence to a bicycle.
If you are prepared to go through the process it is quite possible to have a de-restricted or far more powerful ebike registered for use on the highway if it falls within moped or motorbike legislation. There would continue to be restrictions on which byways could be used off-road.

It is perfectly legal to use a modded bike on your own land or anywhere you have the permission of the landowner or occupier to do so. If a bike park that owns or rents the land wishes to allow de-restricted emts's and it doesn't conflict with any agreements with the land owner it is up to them. Insurance etc is another topic in itself.....

This leaves the subject of discussing bypassing speed restrictors purely an ethical one based on whether folk who have modded their bikes then go on to use them in a manner contravening local laws or regulations.


Moving on to your drag chart.....

There is a rough rule of thumb you can use to gauge distances you can expect to cover on a regular mountain bike on regular trails in reasonable conditions, 7mph off-road and 14mph on tarmac (your love of pretty charts and pictures suggest you will log your rides on Strava or similar so you can check how it compares to your averages, it will be pretty close). So even a mountain bikes average speed on the road knocks on the door of your theoretical 15mph. Any road cyclist worth his salt would scoff at that sort of average on a road bike and would be looking more for 20mph area.

What authority do you have to speak for others and declare such oppression of my freedom? That's bordering on tyrannical if you actually had any power/dictatorship.

Belief is an illusion. If you want this to be a reality, how about practicing what you preach?

The same right you seem to have to deride other forum members for their opinions, labelling them against your nice triangle based on your interpretation of what they have said against your poorly researched examples and opinions.

Maybe time to climb down from your ivory tower and join in with some of the respect you demand from others......
 

Slowroller

Well-known member
Founding Member
Jan 15, 2018
494
496
Wyoming
Sorry for being nieve.
didn't even know 750w bikes existed..
but they do well i think this proves one point
i have learnt somthing.
also world wide forum so should we accommodate all walks of peddle assist.
Also America has probably got states bigger than the uk would it also not be true that huge areas of private land could are being used with these things legally
So any mods would not be illegal.
i for one have joined this forum to learn and make my own decisions on what i do and do not do,
Just because i see a crazy american trying to jump the grand canion dont mean im going to try to jump the bristol channel...LOL
.

Almost all mtb/emtb riding in the US takes place on public land of some sort or another, we have oodles of it. There are few private bike parks in comparison, usually ski areas that lease public land, there are a number of them for sure, but in the scope of things, the miles of trails they provide are tiny, in the single digits overall. There's no doubt private land you can ride anything on if you own it , or know the land owner, and thousands of miles of motorized trails where anything goes as well, but it you're talking about regular mtb and hiking trails, it's a very different situation than in the UK.

Throttle bikes are legal here too, not just pedal assist, although, generally not on mtb trails.
 

Eckythump

Well-known member
Founding Member
Jan 16, 2018
832
680
North Yorkshire
I don’t think the situation is that different here at all.

The majority of mountain bike riding takes place on forestry commission, public land or historic rights of way which is why the subject is a hot potato that needs handling with care.

Not sure it is necessarily a good idea to bury our heads in the sand and ignore the issues surrounding such devices.
 

Kernow

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Patreon
Founding Member
Jan 18, 2018
1,436
1,149
Cornwall uk
Since this is a worldwide forum, my assumption is that we'd also be talking about derestricting a 750w motor to go over 20 mph? Or modding a 750w motor to put out far more watts than that? Which would put all of our future ebike riding in jeopardy. I think it should be acknowledged here, but not promoted. No how to tips.
I know little about the 750 w class but isn’t it already subject to normal motor vehicle laws , ie requires licence tax insurance mot etc .hence it is a motorcycle not a bicycle and is unrestricted already ? If that is the case your concerns are not relavent to this discussion

This discussion is really about the uk/eu restriction to 25kmh and removing that restriction . I believe ebikes in the usa are not subject to this restriction ?, yet the most anti derestriction argument comes from the USA . Kind of hypocritical if you ask me .

So while the various motor manufacturers compete for the greatest kick of torque , and acceleration , which is what arguably could get the most criticism for tearing up trails ,from the Anti Emtb lobby , We argue about even the ability to discuss removing this restriction .

I wonder are ebike manufacturers also competing and advertising for the fastest top speed on 250 w motors in countries where they are unrestricted ? I doubt that because it’s the same rule that applies to a normal pedal bike , the fastest bike is one with the strongest rider , which is in fact the case with ebikes , that’s surely why they are called pedal assist .
 
Last edited:

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
I see people here love their fallacies and double standards. Definist fallacy seems to be a popular one lately, sometimes known as arguing semantics when called out for it.

Defining freedom, defining forum... if I were to use it, how about I define irony? How about hypocrisy?

@Eckythump Irony is not the same as a contradiction. It's a humor device used to mock, similar to sarcasm and satire. I can point out irony in your posts, but doing so is a mere insult to you and is a reflection of a singular perspective. One often has to stretch reality to see irony. It's not used for judgement, it's used for showing perspective. You are merely pointing out that your expectation is different than reality, and seek to mock the size of my posts.

Note how I underlined "the subject" and "discussion of the topic". You hinge your view on the ambiguity of these terms. Define them one way and your perspective falls apart. You seemingly stretched the definition as any reply under this thread, assuming it's all on topic. I can be merely refuting someone's point about something off topic, like freedom or renewable energy, yet apparently I'm talking about modding motors still based on your stretched definition.

Doesn't your answer, "potential for some issues on access, possible conflict with local laws if used in the wrong place or inappropriately," go against freedom, for mere discussion of a specific topic? People lose the freedom to ask you to reveal your RL identity, for example. The reality is that people fear the slippery slope, despite it being a fallacy. That "potential for some issues" is exaggerated and feared and they can use their own definitist fallacy to define, "used in the wrong place or inappropriately". Dealing with people who rely on logical fallacies...

As I said before, freedom is not the same as democracy. Dictatorships are not inherently evil. It's a common form of government. It can work well as long as the leader is good, and the corruption from power is kept in check. There's pros and cons to every form of government. For example, I was raised in a household that was a dictatorship. I was a part of many council-manager type governments for a large portion of my life (school, work, military). Every instance of democracy I've been apart of typically frustrated me. I had to go along with what 51% of others wanted, whether it was my family choosing McDonalds, going to the mall, or going home. From what president was elected to what classmates wanted to do for recess in grade school (kickball, freeze-tag, dodge ball, etc.), the desires/temptations of the majority drove the minority. Oftentimes the temptation is driven by evil, such as greed, envy, wrath, lust, sloth, etc. Democracy is evil in this case, oppressing the freedom of the 49% for unethical reasons. These cases are not rare, where I wish I'd rather have a dictator making the decision, as they hold accountability and there's less bickering among people and fewer grudges. Giving people power and choice shows what they really are... the only check on democratic corruption from power is rational discussion, but you, @Kernow and @Japuserid are trying to force such a check away.

You make it seem like ebikes can't be pedaled beyond their assistance limit or that social group rides don't wait up for stragglers. Is this not envy, to want to keep up with road riders? You expect your machine to at least level the playing field, without considering the work the others put in? Greed? Sloth? Why not reset your standards and be grateful that you can ride with assistance on singletrack? Some of us can't, yet you want more.

Respect is not given, respect is earned. I'm very reluctantly lower my standards for others. You flatter me with your perception of me being in an ivory tower, but what advantage does it grant me? Perhaps I'll use it to observe the action of the masses that we share trails with who are likely to hunt down ebike modders looking to ride singletrack. I'll be preparing to abandon the tower, taking my chances with those trying to drag me down, than with the masses. Good luck putting a check on their democracy with your flavor of "rational discussion". You might think you have power, siding with 25 others or so, to attack an "enemy" in a tower, but your total doesn't match the numbers (tens of thousands) who are enemies of ebikes with modded motors. Why don't you ask if you are in a war that's worth fighting for? Are you seeking the freedom to intrude on others' freedom?

I don't see any point in really doing any convincing now, as I've already recognized that people are emotionally invested and wrathfully hold grudges. I'm merely a harbinger at this point--I've already gone through the Kubler-Ross model for my "loss of speed". You guys seem to still be on stage 1-3 (denial, anger/frustration, depression)... I'm here to learn, and right now you guys are feeding me observation of "human behavior" of a few dozen ebikers.
 
Last edited:

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
TL:DR

Give it a rest ffs! Your text walls are boring and derailing the thread.
Who made you sheriff? The part that says "@Eckythump" should've hint that you didn't have to read. Countering claims is still on topic. If you're seeking entertainment, why are you here? Boredom is dictated by your own perspective.
 

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
I'd say the 5 folks who agree with me for a start. :D

There is an Ignore function on this website, please don't make me use it.
Is that how that agree function works? xD

Using power to threaten others? If that were a special power, rather than one that merely only affected your own perspective, I'd question the use of it for ethics or possible corruption. xD

Reminds me of all the wrongfully convicted people that were exonerated in recent times. Wonder what makes people feel qualified to have power and judgment over others. Perhaps a connection to the liberal use of these "voting" buttons (AKA democracy) is worth a look.

You going to blame me replying to your posts as derailing the topic too? Should I point out that your posts reflect the lower level of that diagram too?
 

Slowroller

Well-known member
Founding Member
Jan 15, 2018
494
496
Wyoming
I know little about the 750 w class but isn’t it already subject to normal motor vehicle laws , ie requires licence tax insurance mot etc .hence it is a motorcycle not a bicycle and is unrestricted already ? If that is the case your concerns are not relavent to this discussion

This discussion is really about the uk/eu restriction to 25kmh and removing that restriction . I believe ebikes in the usa are not subject to this restriction ?, yet the most anti derestriction argument comes from the USA . Kind of hypocritical if you ask me .

So while the various motor manufacturers compete for the greatest kick of torque , and acceleration , which is what arguably could get the most criticism for tearing up trails ,from the Anti Emtb lobby , We argue about even the ability to discuss removing this restriction .

I wonder are ebike manufacturers also competing and advertising for the fastest top speed on 250 w motors in countries where they are unrestricted ? I doubt that because it’s the same rule that applies to a normal pedal bike , the fastest bike is one with the strongest rider , which is in fact the case with ebikes , that’s surely why they are called pedal assist .

The laws are different in the US, a 750w ebike, either a PAS or a throttle is legal and treated like a bicycle on streets and bike paths in most places. The discussion as I read it was weather talk of derestriction would be allowed, not only as it applies to UK bikes. People are already derestricting 250w emtbs in the US, for the same reason people do it in Europe, they don't like the feeling of hitting the wall when the motor kicks off. I would imagine that people will also want to do it with 750w ebikes as well.
 

Varaxis

Member
Founding Member
Feb 5, 2018
145
89
California, USA
The laws are different in the US, a 750w ebike, either a PAS or a throttle is legal and treated like a bicycle on streets and bike paths in most places. The discussion as I read it was weather talk of derestriction would be allowed, not only as it applies to UK bikes. People are already derestricting 250w emtbs in the US, for the same reason people do it in Europe, they don't like the feeling of hitting the wall when the motor kicks off. I would imagine that people will also want to do it with 750w ebikes as well.
In the US, one of our industry trade groups, People for Bikes (formerly Bike Belong), had non-standard bikes in mind when writing up the plan that was later adopted by various states: cargo bikes, utility bikes (such as boardwalk vendors), tandems, pedicab, etc. Advocates for such forms of human power have questioned the EU restriction.

IMO, the US should make an eMTB class. I don't mind if it's like the EU's if that means more access. I personally want something between a current 250W emtb and a regular bike. 35 lbs, with 25W-50W-100W assist levels, maybe. Once that line is blurred between mtb and emtb...

Blaming the feeling of hitting the wall on a speed restriction is a matter of perspective. I'd blame it on the contrast of your own pedal input vs the motor input. I personally don't ride my high assist modes specifically due to that feeling, since I hit the limit on the road regularly. For example, when I'm behind a car at a stop and try to pace off of it as long as I can, when I'm in a lower assist mode, it just feels like a slight change in slope, or headwind, or a gear change.
 

Doomanic

🛠️Wrecker🛠️
Patreon
Founding Member
Jan 21, 2018
8,686
10,313
UK
Click on the avatar of the person you want to ignore and you'll find it bottom centre of the pop up box.

However, it can make threads appear disjointed and you may still see the post if someone quotes it.
 

Kendoji

New Member
Mar 8, 2018
32
58
Amsterdam
I’ve looked into the options for de-restricting, but I have no interest in making a 25km/hr emtb do 50km/hr as most of the dongles seem to (I have a legal speed pedelec for when I need to do those kinds of speeds). So when I get my e-mtb I’ll probably just leave it stock. The only thing I wish is that these bikes were allowed to do 32km/hr over here like they can in the US. That sounds like the sweet spot to me. And yes I think folks should be able to talk about this stuff here. Maybe hidden away in one sub-forum with a big disclaimer so everyone who doesn’t like the topic can easily steer clear.
 

Rob Rides EMTB

Administrator
Staff member
Subscriber
Jan 14, 2018
6,255
13,680
Surrey, UK
Thanks for everyone’s feedback.

I’m going to consider how we publish this content on the forum over the next few days.
 

PeteIOM

Member
Founding Member
Mar 11, 2018
135
98
Isle of Man
I must admit... I don't understand the need for a discussion on the topic.
There is a sticky on the site that tells you at present it is against the law to hack your bike and make it assist more (resulting in higher speeds)...
Cynical me might think its about site traffic and getting more views/attention etc.

Google is amazing these days... you can pretty much look up anything, like ANYTHING and it will give you a result, a page to look at. If you want to hack your bike, google it and find the answers you need.

But suggesting that allowing talk of hacking and law breaking on the site is about being informative and for clarification purposes just doesn't sit with me.

If I want to buy some drugs I probably won't post about it here :LOL:
 

EMTB Forums

Since 2018

The World's largest electric mountain bike community.

551K
Messages
27,884
Members
Join Our Community

Latest articles


Top