STEPS E8000 Motor Service

[brw0513]

Hi all.

I purchased a bearing set for the E8000 from the Australian agent for Performance Line Bearings a while ago. And decided today was the day to do the bearing replacement.

But I struck a snag when trying to separate the cases. My through axle has a collar on the left hand side that doesn't seem to be shown or discussed by others during the process. Pics attached.



This collar doesn't allow the left hand case to be lifted clear of the axle.

Anyone else experience this?

Any suggestions?

Good advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Strindberg]

Hej Hej @brw0513

In your case this black small collar is sticked by mud and rust.

With a small screwdriver you have to push it out step by step.

The collar allows the crank not to rub while pedaling.

You have to grease it after servicing.

 

[JimmyBoy]

Be careful when separating the motor there is a fragile cable and connector, seen in Strindberg's picture just above the 2 grey heat sink pads which can also come away so make sure they go back before re-assembly. Just lift the cable to release the connector.

 

[brw0513]

Hej Hej @brw0513

In your case this black small collar is sticked by mud and rust.

.
.
.

You were right. Thank you Sir

 

[Pansn]

Hey guys,

I tried to dismount the e8000 and broke the magnet (yellow marked in the picture). In one describtion it's called magnet for cadence and position sensor. Is this sensor available somewhere? Is it still useful to change the bearings or is the engine fucked?

Also the gear (red marked) on the other photo, moves around 1 mm and is really instable. Is this normal?

Thanks for your help of the guys, who have done this before.

Cheers,
Stefan

 

[S13]

Not sure, but i think you could replace that magnet ring if you can get hold of spare parts. That would save your motor from the trash bin.

That unstable gear, yes that could be a problem. At least it was for me. I got an intermittent grinding noise because it would rub against the adjacent gears. Ive tried everything to stabilize that gear with spacers, and adding more clearance (so it wouldnt hit the other gears). Didnt help much. The true cause is that the clutch just wears out over time. Ive mentioned the problem here:

STEPS E8000 Motor Service

Shell Gadus S2 V100 2 is not designed to assist clutch bearing grip. The fact that we use it for that purpose does not mean it was designed for that purpose. Shell Gadus S2 V100 2 is designed as a "High performance multipurpose grease". And its application is primarily for bearings (roller...

www.emtbforums.com

Now if you dont have any grinding noise at the moment, you might still be ok. It takes a while for the problem to develop.
Otherwise your best bet is to replace those gears with parts from a donor motor (low mileage). I did this recently and it finally fixed the issue 100%.

 

[Pansn]

@S13 Thanks for your advice. Do you have such an spare magnet out of an donor motor? Or anybody else?

My motor made grinding noises of the gears and the gears were also postponed when I take the engine apart.

If anybody sells a damaged engine for spare parts, just send me a message.

I will add some pictures, that you see it.

 

[S13]

My donor motor does have a spare magnet in it still, so i could sell it to you (provided i can unmount it). The gears i dont have.

However if you buy a complete donor motor for the gears from somewhere else, it would come included with a magnet ring. So then buying the magnet from me doesnt make much sense. But if you are still interested let me know.

I got my donor motor from a local member here:

cream

www.emtbforums.com

Perhaps shoot him a private message. He might have some more?

 

[Strindberg]

@Pansn

I wrote yesterday per PM through the german forum
very long answers about the method we have to follow to service safely and easily the motor.

In the german forum and here for example I gave several times since 6, 7, 9 months
very long and complete and comprehensive explanations
about how you can lift away from the grey magnet the ball bearing without any troubles.

Yes, of course ferrite is fragile. I wrote x-times never be in a hurry to service the E8000, never, never, never.

If somebody intend to do that on his own, he has to let for some couples of days the engine in a corner,
and he must reed a lot of times the threads onwards and backwards and vice versa,
to understand and to FEEL what we are meaning and what we describe !!!

It's sad because with these failures only due to haste, cyclists who would like to repair their e8000 will no longer dare and will have to buy a new motor, which is completely unnecessary.

For our part we have done our best for the forum in german and english.

-------------------

We cannot replace only the magnet, c'est foutu,
the sensor is calibrated with his magnet and with the engine PCB.
We cannot take only a sensor from an old donnor motor.

____________________

When I see your engine, I would say I am very astonished to see how it is dirty inside
and with black and brown shards and grains. That is not mud from the forest by sharp hillclimbings.
It shows that the plastic cogwheels suffered a lot and are not reusuable, I would say.

--------------------------------------------------

Yes a little play under the small circlips is normal and is necessary.

Pix: Geroldseck castle, anno 1250, Black Forest
( we have also on our french side of the River Rhine in the Vosges Mountains Le Grand Geroldseck and Le Petit Geroldseck, anno 1120)

 

[Strindberg]

Total distance with 3,5 + 1 engines ➳ 30,011 km ➳ 31. V 2019 ➳ 13. IX 2022 (complete story about my 3,5 + 1 Drive Units in this thread).

30.011 kilometers with 3 BT-E8010 and each with 97 loads: 97 x 3 = 291.
So, I could have had an average consumption of only 3,2 Wh/km,
but after each rides I measured an effective average consumption between 4,2 and 5,6 Wh/km (efficiency of loader minus 13%).

Only during the 6 first months I had trips over 115 km with only One battery,
and than only around 75 km in a very hot summer day.

I drive only legal 25km/h and 99,99 % with Eco High 60% and 30 Nm,
but real only with 17/24% ➳ displayed by Sigma Rox 12.0.
84 rpm on the flat lane / 91/92 rpm hillup, asphalt only.

I had all the time 34-11/14-51 and since 2000 kilometers 32-11/14-51

--------------

Two days ago just a few seconds before the end of my accu after 72 km on the flat lane
I had for the first time error W011

1. with totally stupid displays of speed
2. and abrupt and repeated interruptions of assistance.

Sigma Rox 12.0 showed a red popup with "speedsensor not recognised".

I put another battery and drove back my 72 km without troubles.
I also have 2 displays with me, if...

My new DT Swiss 350 Hybrid with ratchet 24 T has no play, idem for magnet, contact, speedsensor and all the other plugs.

At home I changed the speedsensor. And yesterday I had another tour like ever over 96 km without issue.

 

[Dario]

Hello everyone, lately my e8000 has become louder and when after a few minutes of driving it warms up a bit under heavy load in trail and boost mode, a rather loud interrupted sound is heard (kweek-kweek).
Otherwise, when I turn off the motor and pedal under full load, absolutely nothing is heard, everything works perfectly, does it make sense to change the bearings, since the ones that go most often seem to be fine ?
Thanks

 

[Dario]

exactly this sound (video from 2:00min)

 

[Bearing Man]

I can't believe I sat through all 7 minutes of that! First thing I would try is changing my shoes! It sounded just like a squeaky shoe to me

 

[Silver fox]

Can someone explain to me how to remove the main (barrel shaped) connector to the E8000 motor? Many thanks

 

[S13]

exactly this sound (video from 2:00min)

Yeah that is the sound of those 2 inner gears rubbing against each other...
It creates this repeating scratching noise about 2 - 2,5 times the speed of the cranks.

Ive posted about this problem here:

STEPS E8000 Motor Service

Shell Gadus S2 V100 2 is not designed to assist clutch bearing grip. The fact that we use it for that purpose does not mean it was designed for that purpose. Shell Gadus S2 V100 2 is designed as a "High performance multipurpose grease". And its application is primarily for bearings (roller...

www.emtbforums.com

The solution is to replace those 2 inner gear sets (the 2 layshafts with gears and clutch on it) with parts from a donor motor. This is what i did and it finally fixed the problem 100%.
Or get a new motor, preferably under warranty.
Or alternatively you could keep on riding like this, but the grinding does get worse over time. Its not necessarily destructive in short term, and you can ride with it for a long time before something bad happens. But the grinding does create heat in the cogs, makes the lubrication fail (it burns black) and that causes cogs, clutches and bearings to wear out even faster.

Just replacing the bearings would most likely not fix your problem.

 

[S13]

Can someone explain to me how to remove the main (barrel shaped) connector to the E8000 motor? Many thanks

You first lift up the outer sleeve, that unlocks it. Then jiggle the connector upwards and it should come out.

 

[S13]

BTW, regarding those grinding noises from those inner gears, Shimano did change the design of those gears over time. And probably for the worse sadly. I had one of the later models E8000 (right before the EP8 was introduced) and it suffered from this grinding problem badly.
The donor parts i got were from an older E8000 and those parts were different.

Just an illustration to see what im talking about:

(ignore the arrow...)

When i was swapping the parts out, I spotted 2 changes with these gears.
The first is that the older motors had an additional (3rd) clutch mechanism inside that big black gear. This was completely removed in the later model E8000. Possibly due to cost and weight savings, the third clutch is kind of redundant anyway.
The second is that the big metal gear in the center of the photo was changed in width. The older motor had a narrow gear, the later model has a wider gear (as shown on this photo).

Makes you think if this grinding problem was actually introduced by changing to that wider gear? Since a wider gear had less clearance on both sides?

 

[Dario]

S13 thanks for the answer and it seemed to me from the sound that the problem is not in the bearings, the warranty has expired, unfortunately I don't have a donor motor, is there any possibility of repair?

 

[S13]

If you cant find a donor motor and are able to either fix it yourself or know of someone who can fix it for you, your only choice is to buy a new motor. Im not aware of any company who does these kind of repairs. Shimano doesnt provide spare parts for their motors sadly.

 

[Dario]

Thanks again, I'll take the my motor apart these days to see if there are any scratches like in your picture, I have some technical knowledge, so I'll try to solve it somehow

 

[Marc_250]

Yeah that is the sound of those 2 inner gears rubbing against each other...
It creates this repeating scratching noise about 2 - 2,5 times the speed of the cranks.

Ive posted about this problem here:

STEPS E8000 Motor Service

Shell Gadus S2 V100 2 is not designed to assist clutch bearing grip. The fact that we use it for that purpose does not mean it was designed for that purpose. Shell Gadus S2 V100 2 is designed as a "High performance multipurpose grease". And its application is primarily for bearings (roller...

www.emtbforums.com

The solution is to replace those 2 inner gear sets (the 2 layshafts with gears and clutch on it) with parts from a donor motor. This is what i did and it finally fixed the problem 100%.
Or get a new motor, preferably under warranty.
Or alternatively you could keep on riding like this, but the grinding does get worse over time. Its not necessarily destructive in short term, and you can ride with it for a long time before something bad happens. But the grinding does create heat in the cogs, makes the lubrication fail (it burns black) and that causes cogs, clutches and bearings to wear out even faster.

Just replacing the bearings would most likely not fix your problem.

Thanks for this, I've got the same noise. Can confirm it gets worse with continuous load going through the DU so fits the heat build up theory. Also my original motor got to 18k before crank bearings failed (never developed this noise) but the current replacement is on like 9k so could support the theory that the revised gear sets aren't as good. I was thinking of opening it up to do the bearings but based on what you said I'll hold of.

 

[fruitbat]

Hey guys,

I tried to dismount the e8000 and broke the magnet (yellow marked in the picture). In one describtion it's called magnet for cadence and position sensor.
View attachment 95725

I broke the magnet in 5 pieces (bearing puller) and thought that's the end. Superglue und some epoxy resin helped. There is no difference in the behaviour of the sensors. The magnet ring is just a 4 segment magnet, 2 segments magnetic and two not. It's no part of the torque sensor, just for rotation speed of the axle.

 

[Dario]

BTW, regarding those grinding noises from those inner gears, Shimano did change the design of those gears over time. And probably for the worse sadly. I had one of the later models E8000 (right before the EP8 was introduced) and it suffered from this grinding problem badly.
The donor parts i got were from an older E8000 and those parts were different.

Just an illustration to see what im talking about:

(ignore the arrow...)

When i was swapping the parts out, I spotted 2 changes with these gears.
The first is that the older motors had an additional (3rd) clutch mechanism inside that big black gear. This was completely removed in the later model E8000. Possibly due to cost and weight savings, the third clutch is kind of redundant anyway.
The second is that the big metal gear in the center of the photo was changed in width. The older motor had a narrow gear, the later model has a wider gear (as shown on this photo).

Makes you think if this grinding problem was actually introduced by changing to that wider gear? Since a wider gear had less clearance on both sides?

I opened my motor today, everything went quite easily, but I don't see any scraping marks like you have.

 

[S13]

Maybe try cleaning it up and inspect it more carefully. Look for any kind of wear, debris etc. The wear pattern from my photo is from after many many kms of scraping noise (probably well over 1000kms) and several failed attempts of regreasing the gears. So that amount of wear took a long time to reveal itself.

Im not sure what that gunk inside the black cog is? Looks like powder or something?
Could also be that yours is not hitting the the black cog, but instead the bearing on the opposite side?

Is there a lot of axial play on the big metal clutch gear?

 

[Dario]

Maybe try cleaning it up and inspect it more carefully. Look for any kind of wear, debris etc. The wear pattern from my photo is from after many many kms of scraping noise (probably well over 1000kms) and several failed attempts of regreasing the gears. So that amount of wear took a long time to reveal itself.

Im not sure what that gunk inside the black cog is? Looks like powder or something?
Could also be that yours is not hitting the the black cog, but instead the bearing on the opposite side?

Is there a lot of axial play on the big metal clutch gear?

I didn't notice any wear or debris, the gunk inside the black cog is hardened grease, I don't see any scraping marks on the bearing und axial play ist about 1mm.
The only thing is that my gear seems to be brass, not steel like yours, and it looks more worn than yours.

 

[S13]

If the grease has hardened and turned black, then it has already deteriorated to the point of failure. Most likely due to overheating.
And yeah, that center cog doesnt look to good on the photo.

I still think that your best bet is to replace that set of cogs.
Also because the interval / period of the grinding noise points at these cogs.

 

[Marc_250]

I didn't notice any wear or debris, the gunk inside the black cog is hardened grease, I don't see any scraping marks on the bearing und axial play ist about 1mm.
The only thing is that my gear seems to be brass, not steel like yours, and it looks more worn than yours.

View attachment 98107

Interested what you decide to do and how it works out

 

[Dario]

In the end I put a thin washer under the C-Clip to reduce the axial play and I also replaced this bearing because it didn't spin as smoothly as the others, I lubricated everything well and for now, after 200 km, everything works as it did when it was new

 

[Marc_250]

Opened up mine today as it the fast paced shh shh (sometimes sounding like a tieclip been pulled) sound was getting louder.
This is how it looked for me, gears all look pretty good but grease seemed a bit tired, not sure if it all going brown is normal? The bearing covered in the brown gunk is rough to rotate rest seem fine. Will clean it up and replace all 4 bearings on these 2 shafts tomorrow, chuck it all back together and see how it goes.

 

[S13]

The original color of the grease is white. So if its brown now that means its either heavily contaminated or burned due to overheating. Either way it doesnt look good.