Specialized Mission Control App v2.x Now Available

[Rob Rides EMTB]

What I can’t accept is the fact that I’m sure that you do not fully comply with the “European Community Privacy Act”. You do not clearly specify, within the app directly, WHAT you are logging as well as WHO you share it with.

Hi Khorn, what is this act? Is it GDPR that you are referring to?

 

[khorn]

Hi Khorn, what is this act? Is it GDPR that you are referring to?

Yes

Karsten

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Yes

Karsten

OK, great. Thanks for clarifying. Whilst I am not an expert, I have sat through a lot of training and taken a GDPR course in my previous role. GDPR covers many points, and some parts specifically relate to Personal Identifiable information, ie data that is personal to you. An example might be your real name, home address, IP address etc.

I was also curious to see what is being collected, and it led me to the privacy page that was linked above. I also signed out of mission control to try to create a brand new account and I noticed that in order to register, you need to check that you've read the Terms of Use / Privacy Policy.

That privacy policy had a date of 25th May 2018, the date that the new GDPR rules became mandatory. I am assuming that Spesh got some legal advice on this to make sure they were GDPR compliant.

All of the wording on that page looks pretty standard to cover them on GDPR. Stuff that relates to Turbo Bikes / Mission Control that I could see

We also automatically collect certain other information, including:

• information about your purchases and purchase history;
• frequency of rides on your bicycle;
• starting location and ending location of your rides;
• power consumption during your rides;
• error occurrences with respect to the battery of the bicycle;
• motor and bicycle serial numbers and the hardware version you are using;
• rider behaviour (using analytics), rider preferences, ride history, rider performance statistics (e.g., length of rides, distance covered;
• elevation gain & loss, rider power, cadence, speed, average speed and elevation gain uphill);
• data from chat features; and
• billing history, log data and error reporting.

So from a GDPR compliance perspective, everything seems legit. (I'm no legal expert though). But it seems in order to use Mission Control you HAVE to give consent. You could also own the bike and never use Mission Control.

Arguably there could be a case to opt out of that stuff added into the app. That'd be win win, for those that dont want to share that stuff above no probs, just opt out. Similar to when you get a new phone / computer, you can opt out of sharing analytics and crash data with developers.

To end, I think that all that data listed above is collected, ultimately, to make a better product. But I totally get that privacy is important for many of us and we want companies to be as up front as possible about exactly what is collected and how it is used.

 

[khorn]

As specialized clearly stated earlier in this thread, they are capable of connecting to my bike directly on the fly and even capable of updating the software behind my back, without my specific acceptance. In my opinion that is direct access to very personal information as well as my personal property - From a Privacy perspective I don’t care what they say they do but what they are able to access.

What about if they brick my bike if one of those secret sw updates goes wrong? I truly believe it is my personal right to opt out of that without loosing functionality of my legal property.

If that is a ultimate demand in order to utilize full functionality, it should be clearly stated prior to purchase whitch it was not.

Karsten

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

As specialized clearly stated earlier in this thread, they are capable of connecting to my bike directly on the fly and even capable of updating the software behind my back

Apologies if what I wrote before was unclear Karsten. YES - we intend to make over-the-air updates possible in the near future - but my understanding is that when that happens you will be fully in charge of accepting and installing that update. We really hope the feature is perceived as a benefit - again this has been prioritised and developed through rider feedback.

 

[Matt b]

@Matt b this is how I think it works, but someone can correct me! This other post gives useful info Mission Control iOS App 1.2.0 featuring Infinite Tune - Now Available - EMTB Forums

At 100 assistance support the Levo provides 320% of the rider power, and at 100 peak power up to the maximum of the motor power (let's assume that is 500 watts as mentioned in the post I linked).

If at the bottom of the hill you are pedalling at say 300 watts, then the motor power will be maxed at 500 watts giving a total of 800 watts.

If at the top of the hill you are tired and pedalling at 200 watts, then the motor power will still be maxed at 500 watts giving a total of 700 watts.

But if you were even more tired at the top and pedalling at 100 watts, then the motor would only be giving 3.2 times that = 320 watts, reduced from the maximum possible, and giving a total of 420 watts.

So it does depend on what power the rider can provide relative to what the actual power output of the motor is. I don't know if Mission Control can display those actual values? But I've seen that the BLEVO app can display them. So it might be useful to do a test and see what actual values you experience yourself.

I found a chart here which shows comparative power of different cyclists My World From a Bicycle: Comparative Measurements of Maximal Outputs for Cyclists

View attachment 5666
Note that to sustain even 200 watts you will have to be fairly fit!

Thanks, it does seem that if your legs start going you're not going to get full power to help..which seems a shame.

@Matt b this is how I think it works, but someone can correct me! This other post gives useful info Mission Control iOS App 1.2.0 featuring Infinite Tune - Now Available - EMTB Forums

At 100 assistance support the Levo provides 320% of the rider power, and at 100 peak power up to the maximum of the motor power (let's assume that is 500 watts as mentioned in the post I linked).

If at the bottom of the hill you are pedalling at say 300 watts, then the motor power will be maxed at 500 watts giving a total of 800 watts.

If at the top of the hill you are tired and pedalling at 200 watts, then the motor power will still be maxed at 500 watts giving a total of 700 watts.

But if you were even more tired at the top and pedalling at 100 watts, then the motor would only be giving 3.2 times that = 320 watts, reduced from the maximum possible, and giving a total of 420 watts.

So it does depend on what power the rider can provide relative to what the actual power output of the motor is. I don't know if Mission Control can display those actual values? But I've seen that the BLEVO app can display them. So it might be useful to do a test and see what actual values you experience yourself.

I found a chart here which shows comparative power of different cyclists My World From a Bicycle: Comparative Measurements of Maximal Outputs for Cyclists

View attachment 5666
Note that to sustain even 200 watts you will have to be fairly fit!


Thanks, it does seem that if your legs start going on a climb you're not able to get full power to help you out. Maybe specialized can look at that in a future update.

 

[Slowroller]

Thanks, it does seem that if your legs start going you're not going to get full power to help..which seems a shame.

Could you switch to shuttle mode? Then it's just spin to win

 

[Mcharza]

First of all thanks for being brave enough to stick your head into the lions cave?? When that is said I must admit that I find your software quite dilletantic functionality vice. That I could live with as I will not use it for anything but setting up my 2018 Levo. What I can’t accept is the fact that I’m sure that you do not fully comply with the “European Community Privacy Act”. You do not clearly specify, within the app directly, WHAT you are logging as well as WHO you share it with. Secondly I see nowhere in the app the possibility to opt out of the logging part. Those two factors alone is forcing me to use a 3rd party app as I do not trust you to handle my personal Information. When I bought my bike I was not clearly informed that it was only usable if I give Specialized permission to be online with my bike at all times!

My point is that I bought a product where I can’t use all features without giving you access to private information - This alone is not in accordance with EU marketing rules.

Finally, I bought a dual wheel size bike and I frequently change wheels, pending where I ride. In the newest version of MC I cannot influence the wheel circumference with again influence my speed limit when riding. I kindly request you to fix the above mentioned issues ?

Karsten

PS No criticism without constructive suggestions and I’m more than willing to provide that if interested but don’t think it belongs in this thread.

This exactly the point. EU General Data Protection Regulation says, that the registry holder is obliged to provide to the user which kind of information has been collected. And the person has the right to request to removed them.

So I think it is easier to have in the app an option, that you can login as an anonymous and have an option to not collect information.

Don't loose your customers trust. I still remember Specialized rear schock proprietary attachment.

 

[khorn]

It seems like Specialized customer care is very selective answering questions - I’m yet to receive a good explanation as to why I now cannot change wheel size on the bike that is officially sold as a dual wheel size bike?

I bought the bike less than a month ago and now stand in this stupid situation where I’m forced to use 3rd party software, software that might even void my warranty

From my perspective it is false marketing and that is illegal in Denmark!

Karsten

 

[VaseLEVO]

Well my bike is new ( outdate model? ) too, but bought from specialized. I thin k what is lost is we don't want to feel like you bought a bike with an app as an integral part, but essentially you have to give up privacy to use it. The opt-out is key here.

As for over the air updates - we applaud. But again the customers who just bought 2018s old models which are still on sale now by the way should not be neglected in these new developments. I think we can all agree, and we all mostly want to make these great bikes even better, and help specialized towards that goal. There is no malice here, only a positive feedback loop. Karsten I tend to agree with your views and also understand why Specialized is circumspect on answering queries here. They have word things carefully because admittedly they got into some gray territory with the software.

My suggestion is we be patient and give them a chance and see what remedy they do in the upcoming release before we make up our minds.

 

[khorn]

It’s quite easy, I demand Specialized to provide me the features I rightfully bought a month ago without having to use illegal software, nothing more and nothing LESS.

BTW when I got my bike a month ago, stupid me also bought numerous maps via the app/Apple store. Less than a month later, without warning, they bacically terminate the app. Why did they take my money as they must have known at that time that the app was history....... I would call that close to a malicious act - Fantastic bikes but they could learn a bit about pleasing new customers.

Karsten

 

[VaseLEVO]

It’s quite easy, I demand Specialized to provide me the features I rightfully bought a month ago without having to use illegal software, nothing more and nothing LESS.

BTW when I got my bike a month ago, stupid me also bought numerous maps via the app/Apple store. Less than a month later, without warning, they bacically terminate the app. Why did they take my money as they must have known at that time that the app was history....... I would call that close to a malicious act - Fantastic bikes but they could learn a bit about pleasing new customers.

Karsten

Sorry we are allowed to laugh at ourselves right? I am not laughing at you. Am laughing at us. I even forgot I bought bunch of maps too in the old app, and then when I upgraded I was dismayed they had disappeared. But I was more annoyed that the app simply didn't even work at all. So much so I forgot about the maps. .. Roll out was just very badly executed here. To err is human though, so I am giving them a chance to fix the situation. Its 2018 we are used to software that works and this one wasn't good enough for the 1990s.

 

[Matt b]

Could you switch to shuttle mode? Then it's just spin to win

No shuttle mode for the 2018.

 

[ccrdave]

I suspect shuttle mode is just another tourque curve, there should be no reason why that cant be programmed into any of the motors

 

[CaptainJoe]

Apologies if what I wrote before was unclear Karsten. YES - we intend to make over-the-air updates possible in the near future - but my understanding is that when that happens you will be fully in charge of accepting and installing that update. We really hope the feature is perceived as a benefit - again this has been prioritised and developed through rider feedback.

A clear yes from me for over the air updates via the app. Shimano has it, and Yamaha/Giant now as well - Specialized was the pioneer on providing additional rider benefits via an app and that was big decision point for me. Rotwild for example only offers changes to the support levels via dealership, which was a no go for me. The only thing is that I think we agree that the app must be of professional quality and that you can revert to the previous version if something goes wrong.

Not being able to adjust for different wheel sizes myself but again only through dealership is also a bit of a bummer, though I can understand why. Personally, I‘m totally against derestricting bikes because that creates a lot of issues (One: imagine an accident where someone else is injured, no insurance will pay anything if you‘ve derestricted the bike. That could ruin you financially. Plus, Two, a few black sheeps‘ bad behavior easily leads to public discussion to ban e-bikes from where acoustic bikes can ride. I love that EU-wide we have the right to ride where normal bikes are allowed without thinking twice. I rather accept a restriction on support beyond 25km/h than having to spend time to find trails and tracks to cycle on. And if that means I cannot easily change wheel sizes than be it so.)

Although I think there could be ways to allow for individual wheelsizes without dealer involvement by something like a measurement/calibration mode in the app, and use GPS vs speed sensor for a certain time (30 - 60s or so) to simply calculate the circumference and use that. May not be crazily accurate but I‘m having differences between my odometer (measured circumference) and the one on my wife‘s bike (same wheels & tires) and GPS distances anyway. So, I personally would be OK with such an option - that’s my 2 cents.

Have fun and ride safe,
CaptainJoe

 

[Mountie]

Many of you have asked questions about data collection and privacy. I took some time to research an accurate response because there are two levels to the answer: -

1. What does our privacy policy legally permit us to collect? Thanks to Karsten for posting that above, indeed that is copied directly from the privacy policy that all users accept when signing up to use Mission Control.
2. What data do we actually collect & why do we collect it? In practice we collect different data at different moments in time - I’ll split this into ride data and bike technical data.

Ride Data. If you don’t record a ride, we don’t collect or store anything about your ride or location.

WHAT: If you DO record the ride, we create a .fit file on your phone and then back this up on our cloud servers – just like Strava does, for example. The .fit file format was originally developed by Garmin and interested users can do further research online.

WHY: Simply put, riders told us that if they recorded rides via Mission Control they expected us to back them up. One of the largest complaints we had from previous Mission Control users was that if they deleted the app or lost/upgraded their phone all of their rides disappeared. Therefore a key design feature for us with a newer app was to store rides for our riders so that they will never lose them - even if they change phones.

Bike technical data.

WHAT: Our bikes collect & store limited technical data on-board, Mission Control accesses these logs and uploads key product engineering data to our cloud-servers in three scenarios. 1) When you change any parameters on the Mission Control tuning screen. 2) If you open any of the Diagnostic screens. 3) If the bike has an error state.

WHY: We want to understand how our bikes are performing in the field, how riders are using them and what is going wrong. We also wanted to equip our Rider-care and Retail service teams with the ability to see historical fault data, in case an error is intermittent. Our sole aim here is to make better products, create happier riders and sell more bikes in the process.

Understood makes sense, how do I get all of my previous ride data to show up on the new mission ci Tyrol app?

 

[Mountie]

Another question, I used the old app during charging to see how the charging was progressing with the new mission control app Im not able to see the status of the charge. Anyone else find a work around?

 

[outerlimits]

There is not much I don’t like about my Levo. The Mission control app is barely useable to me how it is. I’d like to use it, but even a simple thing like saving what parameters are available on the ride screen is asking too much. Having to set it each time to read the fields I require is a complete pia.
2 other things pe me off too. The rear wheel bearings have been told will not be replaced under warranty as they are a wear item. I say, what is advertised as a sealed bearing should last longer tha 2000km and 4 months. These bearings are not fit for use, and I pretty peaved they are not covered under warranty. Very poor indeed.
The seals are also poor in the Brose motor and mine are now noisey.
I hope @Specialized Rider Care are taking note on these pages. I’d like to hear praise for what is otherwise a great bike, but it gets drowned out by a lot of negatives, which I hope they can fix and turn the tides.

 

[Mountie]

My rear wheel bearings went too. And they are saying the freehub may need replacing. I had to pay for the bearings to be replaced.

 

[outerlimits]

My rear wheel bearings went too. And they are saying the freehub may need replacing. I had to pay for the bearings to be replaced.

It’s piss poor they assemble these wheels with piss poor bearings that are Not fit for purpose. There are numerous hubs out in the market that don’t have bearings made of cheese. Spesh even use DT manufactured hubs in their other wheel sets, which last the distance. I have no problem with the build of the rest of the wheel. Yet it appears they save a few cents by releasing a hub with bearings made of cheese. I thought they were better than that. I don’t want or need top of the line ceramic bearings here. I just want something that is fit for purpose.

 

[Mcharza]

Sorry guys, but you're stealing the Mission Control app thread

 

[zeeack]

Another question, I used the old app during charging to see how the charging was progressing with the new mission control app Im not able to see the status of the charge. Anyone else find a work around?

I have the same problem! Must of just missed it out on the new app! Hopefully it returns. I’ve noticed a update this morning but yet to try it out but I doubt it’s been added on this update!

Please specialized add the ability to update firmware via the app! (Not just for the new Levo!!!) That and some tweaks in the app and it’s spot on! Personally I think it’s great that they are getting involved on here and actually listening to our views.

 

[Mountie]

My rides are still nowhere to be found even after the update to the update.

 

[Decca]

Just got my 2019 Turbo Levo. The old Mission Control cannot find my bike. The V2 Mission Control does find my bike, but I cannot connect. It seems to initiate a bluetooth pairing request and asks for a code (this is on an iPhone), but if I press the Home button to check the bluetooth settings, the pairing request is cancelled!

Am I doing something wrong?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Just got my 2019 Turbo Levo. The old Mission Control cannot find my bike. The V2 Mission Control does find my bike, but I cannot connect. It seems to initiate a bluetooth pairing request and asks for a code (this is on an iPhone), but if I press the Home button to check the bluetooth settings, the pairing request is cancelled!

Am I doing something wrong?

Put in the code on the sticker on the side of the bike.

 

[Decca]

Thanks Rob, but no joy. I presume you mean the sticker underneath on the downtube. The number on there is the bike ID, plus STFZ218F0552, but the keyboard for typing in the code doesn't allow entry of letters, only numbers - WTF!!!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Thanks Rob, but no joy. I presume you mean the sticker underneath on the downtube. The number on there is the bike ID, plus STFZ218F0552, but the keyboard for typing in the code doesn't allow entry of letters, only numbers - WTF!!!

No, there should be a massive yellow sticker on the side of the bike. That has the pin code on it. Where is the bike from?

 

[Decca]

There was no yellow sticker. Bike is from Bike Scene, Guisborough - a Specialized dealer.

It really does seem to be asking for a bluetooth pairaing code - see pic

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

There was no yellow sticker. Bike is from Bike Scene, Guisborough - a Specialized dealer.

It really does seem to be asking for a bluetooth pairaing code - see pic

View attachment 5757

100% you need the pairing code that’s on the side of the bike. The dealer must’ve taken it off!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Al Boneta Do you know if the code is printed anywhere else?