Some thoughts on Jumping

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
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Weymouth
I recently bought a Byclex Kicker ramp to help me improve my jumping skills. To be clear I am not talking a bout bike park jump lines here but natural or maybe trail builder features on natural forest trails. These tend to be relatively small, ever changing, all very different, and often not well built or placed! So the issue is being able to decide the best technique based on some basic criterea.
Already the kicker is helping me to make some of those decisions.

First, some details about the kicker. On its lowest setting it is 460 mm high and the ramp is linear. Its highest setting is 520mm and the ramp is then a mild kicker. My Whyte has a wheelbase of 1270mm and the kicker is 1600.
Linear v kicker:
I give those details because the first thing I noted using the kicker was the difference between it being linear and having a mild concave kicker shape. I found I needed to put a lot more rider input into the jump to gain any height when the ramp is linear ( ie straight with no concave).
Ramp length and timing:
The second thing I noted was that because the ramp is only marginally longer than the bike's wheelbase, the faster I hit the ramp the more critical the timing of my input becomes. Many of the small ramps I come across on forest trails are much shorter than the Kicker so timing is even more critical.
Speed v rider input
Over and a bove the relationship between speed, ramp length, and timing I played around with entry speed. There are some obvious conclusions but still worth recording if , like me, it helps you to fully understand the mechanics of a technique.
Starting at the beginning, if there is no ramp the only way to "jump" in order to clear a gap or ride over a fallen log etc is to bunny hop. At the other extreme if you hit a well designed ramp fast enough you really do not need to do a great deal to get air except focus on landing safely! That seems fairly normal in a bike park to me but a relative rareity on natural trails.
The scenario I am chasing falls between those 2 extremes but both are relevant. I rode the ramp at different speeds with little or no rider input. At the slower speeds the ramp is more like a drop. Quite often on natural trials it is impossible to gain enough speed so reverting to the drop technique is a solution to prevent the dreaded front wheel plant.! Once the speed is high enough the bike gets air but mostly forward and very little upward.
So then adding rider input to those variables......slower entry speed, the shorter the ramp, the more linear the ramp the stronger the rider input needs to be. I found it can actually be advantageous to use a slower approach speed in a number of ways. Timing is less critical, it promotes good technique, and landing speeds are lower meaning more control. Overall it does go to show that jumps have many variables and therefore opportunities to get them wrong!!

Input technique:
I use the "pop" technique ( credit Kyle of You Tube Kyle and April fame) albeit I went back to basics to better understand it. I did a video of me jumping over a low bar from a standing start on both feet. This essentially emulates the ready position with feet on level pedals, and the fact that you are not just jumping up but also forward. I noted there are 5 elements to the jump. Compress on bent legs, spring up on straight legs, bend the legs up and lastly project forward then back with arms ( row), all the while keeping my head up. ( I have excluded the landing stage........that's something I am still working on!!) . Looking up the whole time and "rowing" with the arms is something else I am still working on.
Another thing I am working on is implementing just the slightest hint of the bunny hop by starting a little behind the centre of the bike with dropped heels.
All of the a bove is in my head...not necessarilly implemented on the ramp as yet, but that is the point of continuing to practise on it!!
Another practise session planned for tomorrow.
 

flash

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
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Nov 24, 2018
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Doing something similar. Never rode BMX as a kid and I want to be safer on the trail.

Haven't died yet so assuming it's going well. :) I made my own ramps and landings out of scrap timber.

Gordon
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,628
5,104
Weymouth
Doing something similar. Never rode BMX as a kid and I want to be safer on the trail.

Haven't died yet so assuming it's going well. :) I made my own ramps and landings out of scrap timber.

Gordon
I wanted to be a ble to take the ramp out to different venues so decided on a portable model. That said I stay fairly close to wherever the van is parked, spend some time on the ramp, then ride back to the van and put it away before going for a full ride. It is portable as a back pack but not something you would want to take on a full ride!! I look for sections of trail that have a decent down slope so landing is not too flat.
 

Sijmes

Member
Sep 22, 2018
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48
Netherlands
I have recently started jumping again since my BMX days as a kid. There are so many variables, I'm not sure that it's possible to pin them all down the way you are trying. The chance that a natural jump on a trail would have the same numbers as your own ramp, are very slim. Man made jumps at the bike park use a certain sizing system throughout, but random ones still manage to throw me. I'm hoping that doing more and more variables will pay off eventually. I like your dedication, I'm sure you'll make progress ??
 

Sijmes

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Sep 22, 2018
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Definitely sounds familiar. I think that's what happens when you only half commit, but jumping to flat is also a worry. Maybe unknown jumps still need to be approached with caution and less speed. The runs we all see online are probably never the first attempt ?
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
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OK here is my latest practise session. It is in our paddock which was easier to get to today but there is only a gentle slope so basically landing to flat. In this session I focussed on using just a fairly slow approach and the ramp is on its medium height setting.....all to force more input from me rather than rely on the ramp lift alone.
Re a point from above, I appreciate that every natural jump is different and of course the ramp remains constant but I still think it can teach a lot in terms of varying the technique.

(626) Jump Practise - YouTube
 

Sijmes

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Sep 22, 2018
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I just watched your film. It looks to me like you are compressing too early and the soaking up the jump. I'm guessing that if you compress later and decompress on the ramp, pointing the front wheel a little more upwards, that you'll get much more lift. I know it's all easy to say... Does that make any sense when you watch it back ?
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
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I just watched your film. It looks to me like you are compressing too early and the soaking up the jump. I'm guessing that if you compress later and decompress on the ramp, pointing the front wheel a little more upwards, that you'll get much more lift. I know it's all easy to say... Does that make any sense when you watch it back ?
You are right....I noticed that as well!! I was using a slow approach which may have contributed to that but it is something I will definitely be working on in the next session.
 

Sijmes

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Sep 22, 2018
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I think a bump jump over a piece of wood ( 2x4 ) is a good start. Bumping mildly with both wheel consecutively and like you say weightless. This gets the timing right and lift requires more input from the rider. More importantly the rider gets to acknowledge the hit to both wheels and compensate. Those worrysome nose manuals in the clip were hard to watch.
 

B1rdie

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Can you drop off from flat, from the same high of the ramp, by aproaching slowly and lifting the front wheel with a pedal stroke so that you land with the rear wheel first?
 

Doomanic

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Coaching. Nothing beats learning the proper technique from a pro.
 

Sijmes

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Sep 22, 2018
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Can you drop off from flat, from the same high of the ramp, by aproaching slowly and lifting the front wheel with a pedal stroke so that you land with the rear wheel first?
I would have thought that's more of a trials move than a jump step ? I've been practicing that too.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
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Weymouth
I rode some very familiar forest trails today some of which have jumps a little bigger than the ramp and I am certainly meeting them a great deal faster than I was with the ramp. I had no video so no real idea what my technique was like on them and they form part of trails with a lot going on so no time to reflect.........but......I certainly felt I more control and took them in my stride with no dramas so practicing with the ramp has already had an impact.

All good advice a bove and I take it all onboard. I know from decades of windsurfing that the learning process mostly takes place in the reflection stage ( for those of you familiar with Kolbs Learning Circle) which is why I leave several days between sessions on the ramp.
A full planing gybe is a frustrating skill to learn for many of the same reasons as some MTB skills. A lot of "gurus" used to try to teach the skill as a series of processes, but at full planing speed ( 20knots plus) the entire manoeuvre is over in a little over a second and there is no way the brain can process 5 or 6 steps in that time! If you asked me now how to do it I would not have a clue because I do it on "auto mode". It takes a very special trainer to be a ble to help someone else......sometimes the most skilled are the worst trainers!!
One of the best tips I was given many years a go when learning to gybe, was to be aware of the process steps, but once out on the water just focus on the required outcome (ie to effectively turn the board a round) and most important LOOK where you need to be in terms of the turn........the body always tries to follow your eyeline. Getting around and managing to stay on the board being the first stage of success no matter how ragged! Thereafter you can improve how you achieve that.
In many respects jumping is not much different. The first stage is to be fully confident in hitting a jump at whatever speed it comes at you and landing safely.

My mind is already swimming with ideas from that last session some of which I will concentrate on next time I ride the ramp.
 

Doomanic

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So that's one vote for Neil and one vote against.
Just watched this, Niel is a prof coach and even he didn't get this guy airborne.
1631481775222.png

Looks airborne to me. He didn't really seem to be doing what he was advised to do and you can't blame the coach for that.
 

Doomanic

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Cool story bro.

He clearly can't and he definitely made progress, which kind of blows your coaching don't work theory out of the water.
 

Sijmes

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Sep 22, 2018
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Cool story bro.

He clearly can't and he definitely made progress, which kind of blows your coaching don't work theory out of the water.
I'm not saying coaching doesn't work, just trying to press how difficult it can be. At the beginning of the thread some of us were trying to put into words, how to start somebody jumping. The film was proof that this isn't an easy task even for a good coach like Niel Donahue. That even the best explanation may not outweigh repeated trial and error. How would you instruct a mate ?
 

#mitch

🦷 Tooth Fairy 🦷
Aug 23, 2021
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OK here is my latest practise session. It is in our paddock which was easier to get to today but there is only a gentle slope so basically landing to flat. In this session I focussed on using just a fairly slow approach and the ramp is on its medium height setting.....all to force more input from me rather than rely on the ramp lift alone.
Re a point from above, I appreciate that every natural jump is different and of course the ramp remains constant but I still think it can teach a lot in terms of varying the technique.

(626) Jump Practise - YouTube

Others have said it above but my 2c, you are almost bunny hopping over the jump. If you get that wrong you are going to endo over the bars when your front tire misses the top of the ramp. You don't need to aggressively pre-load as much as you are (in my opinion) work on hitting the jump in a neutral position and going for distance.
 

Sijmes

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Sep 22, 2018
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Yeah I had seen it. That and the GMBN video are somewhat at either end of the spectrum in terms of pupils!! That rowing technique is something I have on my priority list though because I am aware my row is more of a pull up than pull back.
I reckon after a few hours on a pump track, that you will get that rowing motion down. You'll generate no speed if you do it wrong.
 

Sijmes

Member
Sep 22, 2018
126
48
Netherlands
Yeah I had seen it. That and the GMBN video are somewhat at either end of the spectrum in terms of pupils!! That rowing technique is something I have on my priority list though because I am aware my row is more of a pull up than pull back.
The Pinkbike Ben Cathrow series "How to Bike" is a good one. Although the first episode is pretty poor, you can skip that one. They still haven't covered jumping yet but I think it will be coming soon.
 

B1rdie

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
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Feb 14, 2019
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I would have thought that's more of a trials move than a jump step ? I've been practicing that too.
Its a good move to learn how to time the lifting if the front wheel and how the body position at this moment will influence the landing, also to get the muscle memory over the fear of landing when you huck to flat from the same hight.
To use the ramp, I wouls suggest using a steeper slope so you adjust the entrance speed by feathering the brakes instead of having to pedal to aproach, set the landing on a flat and not on downslope until you overcome the fear of popping, set the entrance on hard ground, the same as the ramp an not on grass.
By watching the videos it seems your body is not “convinced” to trust the mind and actually soaks instead of popping the ramp.
I use to thinkof it like I have to kick the bottom bracket off the lip of a ramp, using the feet to throw the BB to the spot where I want to land and then following it with the body and bike trying to set the stance to the best landing.
 

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