Relay Tips / Tricks

[Poggs38]

@Mr Tonka & @Poggs38

Where are you both getting the 1.5mm thick foam at? Amazon?

Yes

 

[Mr Tonka]

Curious which one you used and if it works well. For general riding this doesn't seem to be needed but for commuting to the trail it seems like a good idea, the bike is much harder to pedal at the same speed as my trail bike on the road and feels a bit slow vs cars and other riders (which, funny enough, feels a bit more dangerous actually)

I think it was the speed and fun or something like that. Came from Italy I believe. Works really well. All it does is trick the speed sensor into reporting lower speed. It's a marginal thing for me. I can still pedal with her, for a short burst, LoL. But if you are on a long flat you want to be over quickly, you can zoom over 20mph pretty easily. On climbs, doesn't help at all unless it's a super mellow climb. Like 1-2 percent grade.

SpeedFun FURIOUS Evo easy+ for Fazua Ride 60

Basic tuning kit for your e-bike with Shimano motor. SpeedBox 1.0 enables to double the speed limit of an e-bike from the original 25 km/h (15 mph) to 50 km/h (31 mph). This tuning kit is compatible with all eBikes, eMTB, eMountainBikes that have Shimano Motor E6100, E8000, E7000, E5000 and are...

www.twowheelsempire.com

 

[Mr Tonka]

@Mr Tonka & @Poggs38

Where are you both getting the 1.5mm thick foam at? Amazon?

like for cable damping? I use Jagwire.

For blocks of foam to stop excess wires and cables from moving, I bought a block of medium density furniture foam off of amazon.

 

[Mr Tonka]

So my motor has begun to rattle. I had been chasing this rattle for a little while. Started maybe 3 months ago. I've determined that it's the motor engagement that is rattling. Like, ride DH with the pedals flat and the shaking of the bike makes the motor engagement click back and forth quickly. It's quite annoying and I think I'm going to approach Fazua about providing a replacement under warranty.
Motor performance is fine, predictable, still strong, still quite under power. Bu when not under power, it's noisy. I can ride though a root ball coasting, noisy. Pedal through same root ball, nothing but tire noise.

 

[ehfour]

So my motor has begun to rattle. I had been chasing this rattle for a little while. Started maybe 3 months ago. I've determined that it's the motor engagement that is rattling. Like, ride DH with the pedals flat and the shaking of the bike makes the motor engagement click back and forth quickly. It's quite annoying and I think I'm going to approach Fazua about providing a replacement under warranty.
Motor performance is fine, predictable, still strong, still quite under power. Bu when not under power, it's noisy. I can ride though a root ball coasting, noisy. Pedal through same root ball, nothing but tire noise.

I wonder about pulling the trigger on warranty- If it were me and it isnt impacting power, would it be better to wait till further motor revisions come out
Do we know if motor warranty extends for 24 or XX months after replacement?

 

[Mr Tonka]

I wonder about pulling the trigger on warranty- If it were me and it isnt impacting power, would it be better to wait till further motor revisions come out
Do we know if motor warranty extends for 24 or XX months after replacement?

True, I'm not even sure how long the warranty is for the motor. I just don't want to miss it.

 

[Tmae]

Warrenty is 2 years, it doesn‘t matter if you had a replacement motor inbetween.

My 2nd motor has no issues so far, but just 1100km in.
How much you guys have on the clock?

 

[ehfour]

I only have 620kms, and 6 months in, my motor knock on wood has performed the same since day 1

• Really loud engine whine when in pink
• Slight engine whine in blue when mashing
• no engine whine in green ever

I think I have the V2 or v3 engine, does anyone know how high up they are now? I wish Fazua would post their revisions about each change

 

[Mr Tonka]

Warrenty is 2 years, it doesn‘t matter if you had a replacement motor inbetween.

My 2nd motor has no issues so far, but just 1100km in.
How much you guys have on the clock?

I picked up my bike mid August 2023.

So far I've got 1,797miles. (2891km) But 167 miles were not powered.

 

[Tmae]

I only have 620kms, and 6 months in, my motor knock on wood has performed the same since day 1

• Really loud engine whine when in pink
• Slight engine whine in blue when mashing
• no engine whine in green ever

I think I have the V2 or v3 engine, does anyone know how high up they are now? I wish Fazua would post their revisions about each change

Mine is „Motor Type: Motor F4“ produced in Jan 2024 after replacement end of April.

Mine has a really loud wine in Boost, rocket/pink it‘s quite hearable in higher cadences but lower cadences quite silent. Blue also quite silent.

Maybe yoursis louder then mine or we just have a different perception

 

[CalebDC]

In terms of motor noise and functionality. If I had a replacement under warranty, I would replace it immediately. Getting warranty work done early on is what will pay off in the future. For motor noise, I would keep everything clean but more importantly torque your frame pivots and motor mounts. On the fazua system on the relay, they should be 14nm if I remember correctly. Starting from the non-drive side as the bushings are located on the drive side. I personally have had motor noise fluctuate where it may be louder in the past or quieter. Whine is normal but if it starts to click or tick then it needs to be replaced. Some motors which may have been earlier revisions tend to die suddenly and without warning. I love the fazua ride60 system but it has a few quirks. Hope this helps!

 

[Mr Tonka]

had a weird experience with the GF's bike yesterday. About 6 miles in, bike turns off on a big bump. Does it a few more times and then seems like any movement and the bike turns off. This progressed in a matter of 3 min. I inspect the battery connection and the spring clip to make sure it's all snug. Nothing is blocking the battery from seating properly. Bike turns on, but lift the rear end off the ground 1" and drop it, bike turns off. Wiggle the bike, turns off, tap the saddle, turns off, compresss the rear suspension, turns off. (turns off as in, LEDs go off, then single blue light at the top, then no lights. Activate the ring controller and it turns on like normal.) Through all of this testing, I've checked the battery power wire to the motor, the speed sensor wire connections and ring controller wire connections. All good. I loosened the wires below the battery and wiggled them around while the bike was on, did not turn off with pulling, pushing or wiggling the wires. Even loosed the ring controller bolt on the bars in case it was too tight.

Bottom line, the bike wouldn't stay on. Test it at the car, same results. Test it at home, same results. Throw it on the stand, pull the shock and begin to pull the motor out. Loosen all the bolts, removed the non drive side bolts. Decide to put the battery in and see what happens. Turn the bike on and start knocking on the frame, saddle, morning the rear triangle up and down, pulling and pushing on the dropper cable, wiggling the wires, tapping the motor with a rubber mallet, spin the pedals to engage the motor, no change. Bike performs as it's supposed to. I decide I don't want to pull the motor so I locktite up the bolts I removed and put them in. Re-torque everything, pull it off the stand and turn the bike on. Repeat all the things on the trail that caused it to turn off, bike stays on like it should.

So I hook it up to the tool box to see if any there is any information recorded, fault codes, etc... Connects and is recognized immediately, runs an update and everything looks fine.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I had the same problem with my relay when I first got it. It was a combination of the battery clip not holding it in well enough and a pair of zip ties not letting the battery seat fully into the bracket.

 

[Mr Tonka]

I had the same problem with my relay when I first got it. It was a combination of the battery clip not holding it in well enough and a pair of zip ties not letting the battery seat fully into the bracket.

yes, been there. Remedied all of it prior to this incident. Even still, the first thing we did was tap on the battery to see if that was the issue. It wasn't.
But you are right, I've seen 2 relays now come with loose zip ties at the top of the battery cage which when in the wrong position can prevent the battery from making full contact.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

So, one of the ways I QA/QC'd this was that I put some adhesive backed neoprene on the battery door (adhesive side to the battery door) and then held the battery door tight to the frame with a velcro strap put on very tight. This basically allowed the battery door to push the battery into place instead of just the latch/metal clip.

Once I did this, I could bunny hop the bike and it would stay on. Remove strap, remove battery door, bunny hop the bike and it would shut off. This gave me the proof I needed to be certain that it was just getting the clip bent just the right way to keep it in.

I know you've checked all of this in terms of it being tight... but it's tough to isolate something like this in the shop as you're not re-creating the exact conditions or vibrations. Have you thought of giving something like this a shot to narrow down what you're chasing?

 

[Mr Tonka]

So, one of the ways I QA/QC'd this was that I put some adhesive backed neoprene on the battery door (adhesive side to the battery door) and then held the battery door tight to the frame with a velcro strap put on very tight. This basically allowed the battery door to push the battery into place instead of just the latch/metal clip.

Once I did this, I could bunny hop the bike and it would stay on. Remove strap, remove battery door, bunny hop the bike and it would shut off. This gave me the proof I needed to be certain that it was just getting the clip bent just the right way to keep it in.

I know you've checked all of this in terms of it being tight... but it's tough to isolate something like this in the shop as you're not re-creating the exact conditions or vibrations. Have you thought of giving something like this a shot to narrow down what you're chasing?

yeah, bud. Done it all. I bend the battery clip from the back so that it barely touches the battery when inserting it to make sure it has the tightest connection possible. I have re-organized all the cables and replaced all the zip ties to ensure optimum placement and to ensure they are all tight. I've got all the excess wires tidy, zip tied up, but not too tight. But those are things I did when I got the bike as I have owned another Relay for about a year now. So I knew most all of the Relay's idiosyncrasies and addressed them.

Not really trying to chase it down, just outlining the incident for community sake and if I it happens again, I'll have an accurate description of the events.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

yeah, bud. Done it all. I bend the battery clip from the back so that it barely touches the battery when inserting it to make sure it has the tightest connection possible. I have re-organized all the cables and replaced all the zip ties to ensure optimum placement and to ensure they are all tight. I've got all the excess wires tidy, zip tied up, but not too tight. But those are things I did when I got the bike as I have owned another Relay for about a year now. So I knew most all of the Relay's idiosyncrasies and addressed them.

Not really trying to chase it down, just outlining the incident for community sake and if I it happens again, I'll have an accurate description of the events.

Word, glad you've done it all and have it figured out. For clarity, we aren't buds, but I'm glad you're schtuff is working to your liking.

 

[ehfour]

@ebsocalmtb arent we all buds? now that we have the Relay and all its inherent niggles...I kinda feel like this is a support group

 

[Mr Tonka]

had a weird experience with the GF's bike yesterday. About 6 miles in, bike turns off on a big bump. Does it a few more times and then seems like any movement and the bike turns off. This progressed in a matter of 3 min. I inspect the battery connection and the spring clip to make sure it's all snug. Nothing is blocking the battery from seating properly. Bike turns on, but lift the rear end off the ground 1" and drop it, bike turns off. Wiggle the bike, turns off, tap the saddle, turns off, compresss the rear suspension, turns off. (turns off as in, LEDs go off, then single blue light at the top, then no lights. Activate the ring controller and it turns on like normal.) Through all of this testing, I've checked the battery power wire to the motor, the speed sensor wire connections and ring controller wire connections. All good. I loosened the wires below the battery and wiggled them around while the bike was on, did not turn off with pulling, pushing or wiggling the wires. Even loosed the ring controller bolt on the bars in case it was too tight.

Bottom line, the bike wouldn't stay on. Test it at the car, same results. Test it at home, same results. Throw it on the stand, pull the shock and begin to pull the motor out. Loosen all the bolts, removed the non drive side bolts. Decide to put the battery in and see what happens. Turn the bike on and start knocking on the frame, saddle, morning the rear triangle up and down, pulling and pushing on the dropper cable, wiggling the wires, tapping the motor with a rubber mallet, spin the pedals to engage the motor, no change. Bike performs as it's supposed to. I decide I don't want to pull the motor so I locktite up the bolts I removed and put them in. Re-torque everything, pull it off the stand and turn the bike on. Repeat all the things on the trail that caused it to turn off, bike stays on like it should.

So I hook it up to the tool box to see if any there is any information recorded, fault codes, etc... Connects and is recognized immediately, runs an update and everything looks fine.

Interesting turn of events this weekend regarding this issue.

Saturday morning, battery inserted in the GF's bike. Shook the bike, dropped it, slapped the saddle, actuated the dropper... all things that would cause it to turn off the previous Sunday. All good. Rode it around the parking lot, all good. Got about half way through the first trail (maybe 3-4 min of riding and the power shuts off. Turn it back on, stays on for a couple of jumps, then off again. Gets progressively worse on the way back to the parking lot.

I tinker with it a little more because the LED display reacts exactly the way it does when you remove the battery and reconnect it. All lights off, then one blue light, then all lights off at which point you can turn the bike on. I would ride around the parking lot and it stayed on. If I hit a pothole repair (maybe a 1" bump in the pavement) the bike immediately shuts off. Like as soon as the front tire hits, the LEDs go blank and then the blue light, then blank.

I got to thinking, maybe it got progressively worse because the system was heating up. Either the motor or the battery. So I decided to swap out her battery for my battery.

Ride around the parking lot, good. Ride over the 1" bump, good. Ride over a parking bump, good. Go hit a root ball, all good. So I figured the battery must have a loose connection between cells. To confirm I put her battery in my bike and wouldn't you know it. Worked perfectly. LoL.

So we ride the rest of the day with swapped batteries, like 20 ish miles and everything on both bikes functioned properly.

Sunday morning, I decide to put her battery in her bike to see what happens. Bike performed flawlessly the whole ride. Another 20 or so miles of tech trails.

 

[vorou]

hey, thanks everybody who posted here! a lot of useful info.

currently fighting rattling/squeaking around BB. happens whenever I pedal really hard uphill. think it happens more on the left (non-driving) side, though happens on the right too.

what would be your guess, is it the motor bolts?

 

[Mr Tonka]

hey, thanks everybody who posted here! a lot of useful info.

currently fighting rattling/squeaking around BB. happens whenever I pedal really hard uphill. think it happens more on the left (non-driving) side, though happens on the right too.

what would be your guess, is it the motor bolts?

That's my guess, assuming it happens when out of the saddle.

 

[vorou]

Had my motor removed and just randomly tried to put the bolts back without installing the motor. 3 of the 6 bolts are wobbly as hell. Guess the threads got destroyed while I was riding with those bolts being loose.

Should I put some money aside for the frame replacement?

 

[Mr Tonka]

Had my motor removed and just randomly tried to put the bolts back without installing the motor. 3 of the 6 bolts are wobbly as hell. Guess the threads got destroyed while I was riding with those bolts being loose.

Should I put some money aside for the frame replacement?

That sounds weird. Wobbly inside the motor threads or wobbly inside the frame holes?

In most cases the creaking comes from the sleeves the threaded blocks slide into on the drive side of the bike. Not the bolts themselves or the bolt / frame or motor / frame contact points.

 

[vorou]

That sounds weird. Wobbly inside the motor threads or wobbly inside the frame holes?

In most cases the creaking comes from the sleeves the threaded blocks slide into on the drive side of the bike. Not the bolts themselves or the bolt / frame or motor / frame contact points.

Wobbly inside the frame holes. Check the clip: The first 2 are snug, but then the last one doesn't stay put at all.

 

[vorou]

That sounds weird. Wobbly inside the motor threads or wobbly inside the frame holes?

In most cases the creaking comes from the sleeves the threaded blocks slide into on the drive side of the bike. Not the bolts themselves or the bolt / frame or motor / frame contact points.

Speaking of the sleeves -- do you need to remove them from the motor to add the paste? How do I do that? Do I just pull on those springs?

 

[Mr Tonka]

Wobbly inside the frame holes. Check the clip: The first 2 are snug, but then the last one doesn't stay put at all.

You've got nothing to worry about. I'm about 98.3% sure the bolt holes in the frame aren't threaded. In my estimation, the only reason some thread in tight and some feel more loose is due to an excess of loctite in the bolt holes.

 

[Mr Tonka]

Speaking of the sleeves -- do you need to remove them from the motor to add the paste? How do I do that? Do I just pull on those springs?

Yes, those sleeves is what's causing the creak. It can be tricky. I thread the bolt into the sleeve, use a small paint can or something solid as a leverage surface. Then I use a small pry bar to pull them out by the bolt head. I actually use an interior door panel remove tool as the pry bar. They go pretty easy with a little leverage.

 

[Mr Tonka]

Also, I've been using copper anti-seize instead of grease. Getting a lot more longevity out of the service. Last time I did it was in Jan of this year. No creaking yet.

Pop them out, clean them up and then coat with the copper anti-seize before reinstalling. According to the manual, you're supposed to apply blue thread locker to the motor bolts and let dry for 6 hours. I'm not sure how important that is, but I do follow that protocol.

 

[vorou]

Will give it a try today and share how it goes. Thanks again.

Also, got a clarification about the threads in the frame holes from Transition (I don't think I ever got such quick response from any company lol):

Three of those threaded inserts in the drive unit are compensating, which means they slide within the bores to make up for frame tolerance. Removing, cleaning, and either using grease or green loc-tite on those when reinstalling should prevent any further creaking from the drive unit.

 

[ehfour]

Interesting they say Green Loctite, which requires heat to remove- If you even (knock on wood) needed a motor replacement, I wonder how you/bike shop would remove the motor