Reign E+ 2022

[mrandrewau]

I have my E+1 connected with my Garmin watch where I can see the current power mode used(it showes them like 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

When I switch to A mode the bike is in mode 4 all the time(uphill, downhill, flat,...) it also feels like there is no software present that would regulate the power delivery in different conditions according to the sensor input.

This is a fair question, but I believe it is more of an integration issue (either on Garmin's side or Giant's side) and that they don't have a way to programmatically subscribe and publish the current power mode in real-time and display it to the user. So the Garmin engineer said eff it and just hardcoded the value to a 4 for display.

It would be a colossal screw up if Giant's automatic model is just hardcoded to level 4, despite all the marketing around the 6-sensor technology and smart algorithms. A simple way to test your hypothesis is to ride 30 minutes on each mode, each starting from full charge and on the exact same terrain, and compare the remaining battery life.

 

[emtbeast]

@emtbeast - the snippets in your last Post only apply to Yamaha Motors, but not Giant Syncdrive Pro because they added additional sensors and use they own firmware: PedalPlus 6-Sensor Technology | Giant Bicycles Official site
Comparing Apples with Oranges does not help a lot. If you don't like the Auto-Mode of the Giant motor, just don't useit or buy another bike ;-)

Hey thanks for chiming in. I am not comparing I am just pointing out the facts.

I know that there is a difference between firmwares and as by Giant said 2 additional sensors on the syncdrive.

I just wanted to hear if someone had tried both systems to compare the Auto mode.

Even if there are 2 additional sensors in the syncdrive...the firmware on the Giant obviously isn't setup up properly.

Because if the power delivery in Auto mode on flat terrain is as strong as in mode 4 ( in my case confirmed by my Garmin watch and for sure myself feeling the power delivery) then the Auto mode isn't working properly...we can agree on that right?

I would expect the power delivery to fall down to a least mode 2 in flat terrain if all 6 sensors are working properly.

Tried pedaling very slow, medium, hard in Auto mode on flat terrain...the power delivery is the same in all conditions, strong as in mode 4...

I am not trying to be negative about the motor, I love the power delivery in manual modes and the overall feel of the motor/bike, integration, etc...

But I do feel like the Auto mode is lacking in the firmware department...especially if the syncdrive really has 6 sensors...

 

[zorro77]

No more words, LET'S GO

 

[emtbeast]

This is a fair question, but I believe it is more of an integration issue (either on Garmin's side or Giant's side) and that they don't have a way to programmatically subscribe and publish the current power mode in real-time and display it to the user. So the Garmin engineer said eff it and just hardcoded the value to a 4 for display.

It would be a colossal screw up if Giant's automatic model is just hardcoded to level 4, despite all the marketing around the 6-sensor technology and smart algorithms. A simple way to test your hypothesis is to ride 30 minutes on each mode, each starting from full charge and on the exact same terrain, and compare the remaining battery life.

Hey good point I had my thoughts about the possibility about the Garmin being hardcoded to mode 4 in Auto.
Although I tried pedaling in Auto mode on flat terrain slow, medium, hard...etc...and the power delivery is the same strong as in mode.

I can see other modes change in real life. I will try to do a video of it when I have time.

I will also try to do your suggested test and will report about it...I am pretty sure 99% that Auto mode does not work as it should...based on 6 sensor inputs.

 

[John Cap]

If someone has a garmin headset that can show "ebike" data fields such as power, then could that be used as a test to check what power the A mode gives you?

 

[trailaddict]

Regardless of the power mode set, Giant's Syncdrive Motor will provide assitance based on the input of the rider. Giant® E-Bikes, E-Bike Technology & E-Bike Usage | Giant Bicycles Official site
So if you push hard on the pedals, (regardless if the terrain) you will get the full power of the selected mode. And I expect it work this way - otherwise I couldn't do my trial-tricks like a flick turn on flat terrain or when going downhill ;-)
You would need to talk to engineer to explain in detail how the system is designed to work, and hence your expectations are pure guessing.

I agree that Auto Mode sucks on flat terrain with little input from the rider, but I love it going up on steep trails (see my earlier statements about it. Maybe Giant will make the Auto Mode smarter in the future, maybe not. At least the Auto-Mode on the previous Generation got better with every firmware update of the motor.-

 

[emtbeast]

If someone has a garmin headset that can show "ebike" data fields such as power, then could that be used as a test to check what power the A mode gives you?

I am using the ebike field for the Garmin Fenix 6X watch or similar watches from Garmin that shows all the data that comes from the ANT+ connectivity on the Giant motor system. It has a power field but I think that is the rider power input, not sure. Will do a video of it soon, where you can see mode change in real time.

 

[emtbeast]

Regardless of the power mode set, Giant's Syncdrive Motor will provide assitance based on the input of the rider. Giant® E-Bikes, E-Bike Technology & E-Bike Usage | Giant Bicycles Official site
So if you push hard on the pedals, (regardless if the terrain) you will get the full power of the selected mode. And I expect it work this way - otherwise I couldn't do my trial-tricks like a flick turn on flat terrain or when going downhill ;-)
You would need to talk to engineer to explain in detail how the system is designed to work, and hence your expectations are pure guessing.

I agree that Auto Mode sucks on flat terrain with little input from the rider, but I love it going up on steep trails (see my earlier statements about it. Maybe Giant will make the Auto Mode smarter in the future, maybe not. At least the Auto-Mode on the previous Generation got better with every firmware update of the motor.-

Hey I know and understand all the technicalities about the Giant motor system, electro technician(low current) by profession...and so it's a field of interest for me...

I hope they do make it better with updates, because it's an unnecessary waste of energy...

I definitely expected for Automatic mode to work Automatically...I know it can be made better especially if you have 6 sensors working for you...the challenge is to make them work in sync...ironically the system is named syncdrive

 

[Mr Dog]

Hey I know and understand all the technicalities about the Giant motor system, electro technician(low current) by profession...and so it's a field of interest for me...

I hope they do make it better with updates, because it's an unnecessary waste of energy...

I definitely expected for Automatic mode to work Automatically...I know it can be made better especially if you have 6 sensors working for you...the challenge is to make them work in sync...ironically the system is named syncdrive

I’m experiencing the same issues as you with auto mode and with the bike cutting assistance abruptly at around 21.5/22kph. Maybe the two are related.

It kind or surges in and out of power annoyingly at that cut-off point. Feels like being attached to some kind of bungee. It really sucks and I don’t believe Yamaha/Giant would go to market with a system that was designed to feel like this for MY22.
There are not many people reporting this issue so I’m guessing/hoping it’s a fault somewhere.

To be fair a lot of people give negative feedback about auto but the cut-out thing is not so widely mentioned.

I don’t think any rider experienced or otherwise, ebike analogue would think this was cool. So I guess their bikes are not riding like that which is positive.

I bought online which makes it awkward but I contacted the retailer about it and they said take it to a local dealer. Also said if they want to charge, send them the bill and they will reimburse.

If that turns out not to be the case I’m gonna sell the Giant. No issue it’s just not for me. I have a trek rail and the system is sweet with no such issues. I find myself gravitating to that for a better riding experience.

 

[Redlemon]

Anyone know where to find the steerer adapter to go from 1.8 to 1.5 tapered fork for our bikes ?

Reign E+2 & E+3 come with a 1.8 tapered fork (ZEB/Domain), but it's pretty much impossible to find an aftermarket fork with 1.8 steerer as they are only available to manufacturers so you're stuck with 1.5 tapered forks if you want to change.

I guess the E+0 & E+1 must come with an adapter from the factory as the Fox 38 is only 1.5 tapered.

 

[emtbeast]

I’m experiencing the same issues as you with auto mode and with the bike cutting assistance abruptly at around 21.5/22kph. Maybe the two are related.

It kind or surges in and out of power annoyingly at that cut-off point. Feels like being attached to some kind of bungee. It really sucks and I don’t believe Yamaha/Giant would go to market with a system that was designed to feel like this for MY22.
There are not many people reporting this issue so I’m guessing/hoping it’s a fault somewhere.

To be fair a lot of people give negative feedback about auto but the cut-out thing is not so widely mentioned.

I don’t think any rider experienced or otherwise, ebike analogue would think this was cool. So I guess their bikes are not riding like that which is positive.

I bought online which makes it awkward but I contacted the retailer about it and they said take it to a local dealer. Also said if they want to charge, send them the bill and they will reimburse.

If that turns out not to be the case I’m gonna sell the Giant. No issue it’s just not for me. I have a trek rail and the system is sweet with no such issues. I find myself gravitating to that for a better riding experience.

Hey I actually did a post on this some time back, I have the same behaviour with the cutting out/in at the same speed 21,5kph to 22kph. I noticed that this is happening when pushing really hard up a fire road or similar in the higher assistance modes. It does not happen on flat terrain though, although thinking now I haven't tried it on flat full out in the higher modes.
As you say it is extremely annoying when climbing, like hitting a wall on a bungee cord over and over again. I would understand if this was happening at 24kph to 25kph as this is a know effect. Interesting, maybe this could be related to the Auto mode issue. I don't have any other bike to compare this is my first ebike.
I will do a few more tests on flat terrain and if it's the same then the first will be a visit to the LBS to reinstall the firmware...will see what it does after that. ✌
Does your bike do that also on flat terrain? I would think that not a lot off people mention the cutout issue because they don't ride the bike the way I or you or maybe a few do, I love doing fast prolonged climbs on fire roads....as getting to my best trails requires to go pretty high and I love to pedal

 

[mrandrewau]

Hey good point I had my thoughts about the possibility about the Garmin being hardcoded to mode 4 in Auto.
Although I tried pedaling in Auto mode on flat terrain slow, medium, hard...etc...and the power delivery is the same strong as in mode.

I can see other modes change in real life. I will try to do a video of it when I have time.

I will also try to do your suggested test and will report about it...I am pretty sure 99% that Auto mode does not work as it should...based on 6 sensor inputs.

Cool I will also do this test in a few weeks time (I crashed and broke the shift level, waiting for parts). I'll ride ~30 minutes on auto mode along a route consisting of uphills and downhills, on paved road. Charge it up, then do the same on mode 4, all keeping the same gear.

 

[Mr Dog]

Hey I actually did a post on this some time back, I have the same behaviour with the cutting out/in at the same speed 21,5kph to 22kph. I noticed that this is happening when pushing really hard up a fire road or similar in the higher assistance modes. It does not happen on flat terrain though, although thinking now I haven't tried it on flat full out in the higher modes.
As you say it is extremely annoying when climbing, like hitting a wall on a bungee cord over and over again. I would understand if this was happening at 24kph to 25kph as this is a know effect. Interesting, maybe this could be related to the Auto mode issue. I don't have any other bike to compare this is my first ebike.
I will do a few more tests on flat terrain and if it's the same then the first will be a visit to the LBS to reinstall the firmware...will see what it does after that. ✌
Does your bike do that also on flat terrain? I would think that not a lot off people mention the cutout issue because they don't ride the bike the way I or you or maybe a few do, I love doing fast prolonged climbs on fire roads....as getting to my best trails requires to go pretty high and I love to pedal

Mine does it on all gradients and in all modes where you can hit 21-23kph without easily passing through it. Its less pronounced in the lower assists, I assume because it is not surging back in with as much power but is still noticeable. I agree that some riders wont notice this depending on the terrain they are riding. I have steep trails right from my door and dont hit the limit on the climbs so its not noticeable there. On rides further afield I need to do some flat/low gradient stuff and its a bit depressing when you are on that cut-off point. My Trek has a noticeable cut-in/out but its waaaaay smoother. I think there was one other guy on here that highlighted the same thing.

I will eventually get round to taking it so a dealer so they can check it out. My first thought was that the rear wheel size was incorrectly calibrated, hence the low cut off speed. However even at 24/25kph this behavior seems wrong. My bike has had a few updates via the app since I got it but the behavior didnt change. Im hopeful that its a fault and can be rectified. I will also try to get a ride on another bike an see if its the same.

Will be interesting to hear how you get on at the LBS

 

[Hurre]

I’m experiencing the same issues as you with auto mode and with the bike cutting assistance abruptly at around 21.5/22kph. Maybe the two are related.

It kind or surges in and out of power annoyingly at that cut-off point. Feels like being attached to some kind of bungee. It really sucks and I don’t believe Yamaha/Giant would go to market with a system that was designed to feel like this for MY22.
There are not many people reporting this issue so I’m guessing/hoping it’s a fault somewhere.

To be fair a lot of people give negative feedback about auto but the cut-out thing is not so widely mentioned.

I don’t think any rider experienced or otherwise, ebike analogue would think this was cool. So I guess their bikes are not riding like that which is positive.

I bought online which makes it awkward but I contacted the retailer about it and they said take it to a local dealer. Also said if they want to charge, send them the bill and they will reimburse.

If that turns out not to be the case I’m gonna sell the Giant. No issue it’s just not for me. I have a trek rail and the system is sweet with no such issues. I find myself gravitating to that for a better riding experience.

I have the same cutting out/ in "problem" at 21.5/22kph, feels like it not cutting all out, because i can get up to 25kph on paved road, after 25kph there is nothing, as designed. When i think about it i have not tested this in Auto. So when i must ride on paved road for getting to the woods, i have to stay at 20kph, so i dont get tired for the fun... Its very easy to feel this on paved roads. First i thought it was tire resistant to wet or bad road/ low pressure, then also thought calibration for the rear wheel before. Now i think its ment to give a nice transfer over to "no power at all, at 25kph" but it work really bad.

 

[zorro77]

EXT e-storia for Reign E+ 2022 (not mine but just arrived to the dealer)

 

[Rickster]

Does anyone have info regarding 750wh replacement batteries ?

Only the 625wh battery is currently listed on Giant's website.

My LBS said they are expecting them in summer of 2024

 

[goroncy]

My LBS said they are expecting them in summer of 2024

You mean if 2024 comes . The Ruskis can blow everybody up until then.

Slava Ukraini!

 

[Rickster]

What is the max width of the rear tire? 2,6”?

You can fit a 2.8 without issues.

 

[bcmtb]

How many km y'all got on your odometers now? I haven't had mine for too long, I'm around 250km IIRC.

 

[emtbeast]

I have the same cutting out/ in "problem" at 21.5/22kph, feels like it not cutting all out, because i can get up to 25kph on paved road, after 25kph there is nothing, as designed. When i think about it i have not tested this in Auto. So when i must ride on paved road for getting to the woods, i have to stay at 20kph, so i dont get tired for the fun... Its very easy to feel this on paved roads. First i thought it was tire resistant to wet or bad road/ low pressure, then also thought calibration for the rear wheel before. Now i think its ment to give a nice transfer over to "no power at all, at 25kph" but it work really bad.

I can't feel it on flat paved roads, at least not in lower assistance modes 1 or 2 where I could easily get to 25kph...I need to try higher modes on flat ground.
I felt it the most as you say on paved roads in my case with an average incline of cca 10 degrees. I was doing my test rides(still need to put the data together for the post, as I tested all modes on the same hill). So I have a good feeling how the ride feels in each mode...and in mode 4 and 5 I could push the bike to or over the 21/22kph where this unusual I would describe it as fade out/surge in behavior happens. If this is supposed to be like you say the preparation for a nicer transition to the cutout at 25kph...then I think It's way to soon...I would expect it at 23kph/24kph...anyway It's pretty annoying...and takes away the bike fun factor at higher speeds...I hope it's fixable

 

[Rickster]

What do you guys think? With our super low bottom bracket swapping to plus sized tires for the winter could make a lot of sense . Will Reign e+ accept 3.0" tire in the rear?

2.8 for sure, tire measurements seem to be slightly exaggerated, a 27.5 x 3 Wrathchild will run on that baby !

 

[Donamici]

I have yet to connect the app to the bike, am I missing anything by not doing this? A friend told me that none of the power settings are at Max by default, so is there even more assistance waiting to be unleashed?

 

[Sherman]

I have yet to connect the app to the bike, am I missing anything by not doing this? A friend told me that none of the power settings are at Max by default, so is there even more assistance waiting to be unleashed?

These are the default settings from the app. You will get more assistance if you pedal harder I mostly use Active at 200.

 

[emtbeast]

I have yet to connect the app to the bike, am I missing anything by not doing this? A friend told me that none of the power settings are at Max by default, so is there even more assistance waiting to be unleashed?

Off course ✌ here are your stock settings

 

[Buckle]

Off course ✌ here are your stock settings

View attachment 83867

I too haven’t gone near the app. The stock settings seem fine for me, I use tour and active the most. Very rarely use sport or Power unless on the road. What I do miss is knowing how many miles I’ve done and maybe more detailed battery activity. I have come off a Merida E160.

 

[Rickster]

This is what I am writing about...it was advertised with the PW-X 2 and it looks it's no different with the PW-X 3...



That's why I asked if someone that had tried a pure Yamaha system can give some insight...

View attachment 83559

I have ridden the Yamaha branded x-2 extensively (and torn down twice)and find the auto mode to be pretty much the same on both bikes. Overall I think both motors are Very similar but the new x-3 seems to be much better protected from water ingress with the additional housings. Since I have yet to tear down the x-3 I’m not sure if there has been an improvement or change with the crank bearings/seals. In truth it doesn’t matter what brand of motor you’re running with, if you keep slamming the pedals or cranks it’s just a matter of time before the bearings go, then the seals, then comes the water and dirt. It’s imperative in my view that after every ride one checks for crank freeplay and if it’s there beyond the specs, stop riding Now or be prepared for a new motor ! Stuff happens no matter how careful you pick your lines you can count on bashing your bike sometimes in the deadliest places. Bottom line enjoy your bike and be safe .

 

[emtbeast]

I too haven’t gone near the app. The stock settings seem fine for me, I use tour and active the most. Very rarely use sport or Power unless on the road. What I do miss is knowing how many miles I’ve done and maybe more detailed battery activity. I have come off a Merida E160.

Funny you mentioned... I am using this with my Garmin Fenix...
You get all the data you need and more...and it's customizable to...if you pay a little extra to support the developer you get battery consumption and assistance graphs in Garmin connect ✌

 

[goroncy]

I have yet to connect the app to the bike, am I missing anything by not doing this? A friend told me that none of the power settings are at Max by default, so is there even more assistance waiting to be unleashed?

Yes you are missing something. Let me explain why.

I think that there is a some confusion as to how this motor works. For example. This are my personal settings:

What those numbers are, are percentages of your input. The 400 that is the maximum number is not maximum power in Watts. This is 400% of the input. OK. So what?

That means that the maximum that this motor can give you can be reached even in Eco mode set to 50%. You can reach the maximum on EVERY level. This is by design.

With default settings Sport is set to 250% and Power to 400%. My problem was that there was ABSOLUTELY NO difference between these two for me. Also the difference between Active set to 175% and Sport 250% was also MINIMAL. I could feel the difference at first spin, but after that the difference between Active and Sport was small. Why?

The answer is quite simple. My FTP (for those who don't know this is the max average you can produce in one hour) is right now 305. My usual wattage when just going biking is in the range of 150-200 Watts when going up the hill. So Sport 250% will try to produce power in the range of 375 to 500 Watts depending on my input. I have no idea what is the maximum power of Yamaha PW-X3 but it MUST be less than 500 Watts because switching to anything higher than 250% (higher than theoretical 500 Watts) makes ZERO difference. This is at least what my legs feel.

Now what? If you are a strong rider reduce EVERYTHING like me. If you are AVERAGE. Don't change anything. If you are a beginner max out everything. And PLAY with those numbers.

BUT. Why are you actually missing something without the app? Why to change anything? The answer is that if you will reach the max output of the motor too quickly (in Sport or even Active mode) your brain will be HIGHLY disappointed when switching to higher levels. Because there will be NO difference that will have any meaning. And that is not a nice feeling. Every assist level should produce a difference that you will be able to feel. Hope you will guys find that helpful .

 

[Rickster]

Reign E+0 Phantom green and Kash gold waiting in anticipation

View attachment 75802

Hey did you ever get around to applying those sweet graphics ? I pic would be sweet !

 

[Buckle]

Yes you are missing something. Let me explain why.

I think that there is a some confusion as to how this motor works. For example. This are my personal settings:
View attachment 83872
View attachment 83873

What those numbers are, are percentages of your input. The 400 that is the maximum number is not maximum power in Watts. This is 400% of the input. OK. So what?

That means that the maximum that this motor can give you can be reached even in Eco mode set to 50%. You can reach the maximum on EVERY level. This is by design.

With default settings Sport is set to 250% and Power to 400%. My problem was that there was ABSOLUTELY NO difference between these two for me. Also the difference between Active set to 175% and Sport 250% was also MINIMAL. I could feel the difference at first spin, but after that the difference between Active and Sport was small. Why?

The answer is quite simple. My FTP (for those who don't know this is the max average you can produce in one hour) is right now 305. My usual wattage when just going biking is in the range of 150-200 Watts when going up the hill. So Sport 250% will try to produce power in the range of 375 to 500 Watts depending on my input. I have no idea what is the maximum power of Yamaha PW-X3 but it MUST be less than 500 Watts because switching to anything higher than 250% (higher than theoretical 500 Watts) makes ZERO difference. This is at least what my legs feel.

Now what? If you are a strong rider reduce EVERYTHING like me. If you are AVERAGE. Don't change anything. If you are a beginner max out everything. And PLAY with those numbers.

BUT. Why are you actually missing something without the app? Why to change anything? The answer is that if you will reach the max output of the motor too quickly (in Sport or even Active mode) your brain will be HIGHLY disappointed when switching to higher levels. Because there will be NO difference that will have any meaning. And that is not a nice feeling. Every assist level should produce a difference that you will be able to feel. Hope you will guys find that helpful .

Thats very interesting as I don't feel any real difference between the two highest power modes.