Protective gear (knee pads, shin guards, helmets, body armour, xyz)

[Nicho]

Has anyone seen the Michelin Man recently?
View attachment 41450

View attachment 41449

I think this might be him with his mask and hood removed:

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think this might be him with his mask and hood removed:

View attachment 41468

Looks like a one armed bandit ?

oh no, that's this ??

Is that a wave ? or is he just cramped after a long session on the decision making machine ?

oops .. that's almost heading political .. MERD ! please feel free to delete .. sorry ..

 

[Nicho]

Is that a wave ? or is he just cramped after a long session on the decision making machine ?

I think it might be Canute Johnson.
I suspect it was taken when he was stood on the beach commanding the waves of illegal immigrants to go back.

 

[carlbiker]

Right, so I watched the pan video and it’s clear that D30 isn’t a better solution to the other options but what are the other options? Take the Ion K-pact, ION Bike | Shop officiel | K-Pact Zip people seem to love these yet its not D30 but SAS-TEC.....so then I started to dig into SAS vs D30 and found these:

https://www.mcgearhub.com/motorcycle-armor/sas-tec-armor-review-1-02-knee-elbow-shoulder-protector/

SAS-TEC makes 3D viscoelastic foam in a soft, malleable form and their range of protectors made of viscoelastic foam are specially notable for surpassing all CE standards set for body armor. Many of their knee and elbow protectors surpass the EN 1621-1:2012 in both Level 1 and Level 2 (Level 2 being the highest standard), and the SAS-TEC 1/02 protector is one of the knee/elbow protectors that surpasses the Level-2 standard with flying colors.

SAS-TEC 1/02 Protector Specifications
Here’s what’s claimed by SAS-TEC with regards to their 1/02 armor protectors:

• Level-2 certified as per the EN 1621-1:2012 standard.
• Suitable as knee, elbow and shoulder protection.
• Weighs 72 grams approximately.
• Measures 25 centimeters long, 16 centimeters wide and 1.1 centimeters thick.
• Two protector pads are sold as a set and they’re both symmetrical (i.e. both share the exact same shape).

In terms of how big the 1/02 protector is compared to the competition, it is definitively big and is the same overall size as the D3O T5 Evo Pro-K knee protector D3O Evo X Pro Knee Armour Protector Inserts For Motorcycle Trousers [Pair] (CE Level 2)

Seems its not worth getting hung up on which type of protection but the more pressing issue is the level and that level 2 especially for the back area is required:

https://www.mcgearhub.com/motorcycle-gear-guide-frequently-asked-questions/#CE-Level-1-armor-vs-Level-2-armor

How Much Impact Energy Is Required To Break Ribs Or Vertebrae?
It is estimated that a lowly 5 kilonewtons of force is enough to break ribs and even vertebrae. Moreover, the medical community in Europe has been pushing for a new certified level for back protectors that limits the transferred energy to just 5 kilonewtons (that or to update the current Level-2 limit). This is why you should wear back armor that is certified as Level 2 and which yields an impact-absorbing performance that’s a good bit less than the 9-kN limit for Level-2 certification.

Bones and joints in the limbs can sustain higher-energy impacts, but you will be doing yourself a big favor by only wearing Level-2 certified limb armor and not Level-1 certified armor.

I don‘t see advantages in picking level 1 SAStech vs Level 1 D30 but seem level 2 is the stuff to aim for. I measured my level 1 D30 pads and they seemed to be 24% shorter than lvl2 although similar widths so not only do they protect adequately but also offer better coverage. I love my racer motion 2 top but the more I ride the more I realise the wrong type of air time is coming my way and the smaller lvl 1 pads are just going to give me 24% less protection....

So tomorrow I’ll be going down to the shop to test out the Forcefield tops again, funny how large fits me perfect with Racer but I’m a small with FF.

Maybe I can upgrade the Racer 2 back, be annoying somewhat to pay more out though and the chest can’t be upgraded.....

So Ill start my hunt for lvl 2 stuff now I think, unless there are better ideas?

 

[Gary]

Why is it so many new Emtb riders compare what they're doing to riding motorcycles?

It actually confuses me why reletive newcomers to mtb seem to think they *need* a high level of body armour to ride.
Yeah, you'll make mistakes and fall/crash as a beginner but most falls are generally fairly unlikely to be serious unless you're really pushing the skills curve past your comfort zone. Risk assessment and protective gear are a good idea but it's the former that makes most difference of the two. No armour is genuinely comfortable to ride a pushbike in and heavy duty full body coverage armour is actually pretty hot, restrictive and uncomfortable in that respect.
What sort of riding are you doing that you feel you need motorcycle level 2 armour and spine protection?

 

[carlbiker]

Why is it so many new Emtb riders compare what they're doing to riding motorcycles?

It actually confuses me why reletive newcomers to mtb seem to think they *need* a high level of body armour to ride.
Yeah, you'll make mistakes and fall/crash as a beginner but most falls are generally fairly unlikely to be serious unless you're really pushing the skills curve past your comfort zone. Risk assessment and protective gear are a good idea but it's the former that makes most difference of the two. No armour is genuinely comfortable to ride a pushbike in and heavy duty full body coverage armour is actually pretty hot, restrictive and uncomfortable in that respect.
What sort of riding are you doing that you feel you need motorcycle level 2 armour and spine protection?

Its potentially the difference between a break or a bad bruise....D30 originally is stealth armour which is fine for some basic sports but throwing yourself down a trail at speed facing tree stubs or hardcore is going to likely result in a&e without the right gear.

Not only is level 2 far better but it’s similar widths, thickness is probably not an issue either, the fact it’s 24% longer too is really appealing as that would be just perfect. I didn’t even notice wearing armour today, I did fall off the bike once after being challenged to ride up 50 slippy steps and felt nothing when I landed so that was nice. I doubt lvl 2 will create more heat if lvl 1 D30 is to go by and hey it’s not getting warmer any more...I think the shirt design is a factor, lots of ’air’ models floating around....I think my target atm is the Forcefield air that’s just come out.

Riding wise is red trails, jumps, steep stony declines and some proper mountain biking later on.

Best cure is prevention...I try to learn by others mistakes and they all start with how they broke something then armoured up...no brainer to me. Ironically I hear all the time ribs or collar bones are the ones that get broken yet I’ve zero coverage here!

 

[Gary]

Best cure is prevention... I try to learn by others mistakes and they all start with how they broke something then armoured up

Not sure who "they" are. But if you genuinely want to learn by "others" mistakes. You're on the right track with "prevention". But prevention would include not pushing yourself past your comfort zone too quickly or before you have the required skill and making the same mistakes that injured them. This would be learning by their mistakes as much as buying a ton of armour from day 2 would.
By all means do "armour up" but don't expect LEVELING UP on it to make you invincible like playing a computer game and thinking any armour is able to stop rib or collar bone breaks from happening is quite naive.
Chill a little on worrying about having to have all the "best" gear and enjoy the learning process of biking, the skills that come with it and gradual improvements as they come. The learning curve has peaks and troughs and along the way you'll definitely have a few offs. Talking of which, crashing/bailing safely is actually an important skill to learn too.
Leeds bike park looks an ideal place to gain experience and skills.
Enjoy

 

[wepn]

Best cure is prevention...I try to learn by others mistakes and they all start with how they broke something then armoured up...no brainer to me. Ironically I hear all the time ribs or collar bones are the ones that get broken yet I’ve zero coverage here!

Over the years riding singletrack at high speeds I've been thankful once or twice for wearing quality armour. Also a few times I wished I had it on.
The Demon with SAS-tech is chunky but will protect important bits.

 

[urastus]

Why is it so many new Emtb riders compare what they're doing to riding motorcycles?

It actually confuses me why reletive newcomers to mtb seem to think they *need* a high level of body armour to ride.
Yeah, you'll make mistakes and fall/crash as a beginner but most falls are generally fairly unlikely to be serious unless you're really pushing the skills curve past your comfort zone. Risk assessment and protective gear are a good idea but it's the former that makes most difference of the two. No armour is genuinely comfortable to ride a pushbike in and heavy duty full body coverage armour is actually pretty hot, restrictive and uncomfortable in that respect.
What sort of riding are you doing that you feel you need motorcycle level 2 armour and spine protection?

I wonder about that too. I've badly broken an ankle / foot and had stitches in a knee in the last few years - but a long time between those injuries. I've come off a lot, mostly due to pedal problems with limited ankle / foot use, but nothing major. Nothing I could wear, and ride in, would have saved my ankle / foot. I can understand zimmerframe because he has a thing for trees and broken ribs are very sobering. Then I see dudes ride outrageous stuff with minimal gear - other than a helmet though, I'm not sure anything else would help them much. For me if it was too much bother I probably wouldn't ride; but that has nothing to do with anything. Wear what you're comfortable with.

 

[carlbiker]

Not sure who "they" are. But if you genuinely want to learn by "others" mistakes. You're on the right track with "prevention". But prevention would include not pushing yourself past your comfort zone too quickly or before you have the required skill and making the same mistakes that injured them. This would be learning by their mistakes as much as buying a ton of armour from day 2 would.
By all means do "armour up" but

don't expect LEVELING UP on it to make you invincible like playing a computer game and thinking any armour is able to stop rib or collar bone breaks from happening is quite naive

.
Chill a little on worrying about having to have all the "best" gear and enjoy the learning process of biking, the skills that come with it and gradual improvements as they come. The learning curve has peaks and troughs and along the way you'll definitely have a few offs. Talking of which, crashing/bailing safely is actually an important skill to learn too.
Leeds bike park looks an ideal place to gain experience and skills.
Enjoy

Appreciate the feedback, you sound like you’ve done your fair amount of levelling up!

Unless you’ve seen crash test results regarding effectiveness in preventing broken collar bones or ribs can you really say it’s naive to think that? CE Lvl 2 pads on paper offer more than twice impact protection than CE lvl 1 and if you did need ribs or collar bones to be safe then what do you suggest as these seem high frequency? Ironically these are also the spots that never get attention unlike knees/elbows which I assume you already have.

On paper CE2 can stop broken ribs etc, limb bones you might get away with CE1. Loads of folk who dismissed gear/armour ended up buying gear ‘after the event’....so I mean....why wait? . The problem is what price do you want to put on transferring impact force into your limbs, if CE2 absorbs twice as much as CE1, why pick the later for the minimal upgrade cost would be my thinking. When you consider the cost of a bike, £300 can get you pretty much full CE2 top to bottom. Aside from the helmet it’s probably the next best investment and then lessons...

You have to wear armour I think or combine a few things, even learning via baby step methods will result in offs and as we know any minor off can result in well....just bad luck....I can’t be assed with riding downtime just because I wanted to save a few quid! In my mind lvl up the armour now to lvl it down later when I’ve LEVELLED UP some skills although I’m aware the higher the skill the more risks you’ll take and I bet more pros have more accidents than noobs In this respect.

Leeds urban is great but it’s all hardcore for most jumps so only an idiot would try to learn without being geared up like a knight of the round table; even with the gear it’s dicey....the trails are full of little jumps etc so for now I’m semi coasting but once my knee pads come and I find a lvl 2 contender I won’t have much excuse to not push a little and learn faster (being reasonable ofc)

I feel I’m quite close to getting the ultra noob setup that will make me invincible ?

 

[carlbiker]

Over the years riding singletrack at high speeds I've been thankful once or twice for wearing quality armour. Also a few times I wished I had it on.
The Demon with SAS-tech is chunky but will protect important bits.

oh this is interesting, later today I’m planning to order this, size M, I’m a 40 chest, 6ft, 85kg how did it fit you? Care to offer up a mini review? I intend to make a top 3 contended list for easy reference cheers. You could probably upgrade your pads SAS-TEC SC-1/02 Elbow/Knee Protectors - buy cheap ▷ FC-Moto at little cost....

My plan is to order

Scott softcon air
forcefield old/new
Demon top

then knee pads so far are the Forcefield or Ion which are both CE2 but I’ve seen softcon knee pads for £43 and just investigating if the pads can be removed there as that would be a bargain

 

[Gary]

Your clavical is a sacrificial bone and generally breaks when a rider falls and outstretches an arm in panic and the force is transmitted through the arm to the collar bone. So yes. I can say type2 armour won't change that type of injury .
Ribs form a protective cage for the more important organs beneath. And ribs on their own are actually fairly weak. Hence why armour can't stop you from breaking them in a direct impact. It may help protect them slightly from smaller impacts though.

 

[carlbiker]

Your clavical is a sacrificial bone and generally breaks when a rider falls and outstretches an arm in panic and the force is transmitted through the arm to the collar bone. So yes. I can say type2 armour won't change that type of injury .
Ribs form a protective cage for the more important organs beneath. And ribs on their own are actually fairly weak. Hence why armour can't stop you from breaking them in a direct impact. It may help protect them slightly from smaller impacts though.

I guess here its more a skill of how to fall than the armor in that case! Like if you've CE2 Knees/elbows be better landing on those although I bet there isn't much time to react! I'll have to look this one up hmmm....well or just don't fall erm!

 

[Gary]

there's actually way more time than you think to allow you to perform a safer landing and less injuries from most crashes. The biggest hurdle for most is the fear that causes them to freeze or worse still tense up during a crash. This is why I mentioned crashing/bailing as being a skill.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I measured my level 1 D30 pads and they seemed to be 24% shorter than lvl2 although similar widths so not only do they protect adequately but also offer better coverage. I love my racer motion 2 top but the more I ride the more I realise the wrong type of air time is coming my way and the smaller lvl 1 pads are just going to give me 24% less protection....

I'm not sure where you're getting the 24% ? Are you sure this isn't just different sizes ? If you look at my Forcefield review, the Size Small Bakc is larger than the Racer Size Medium back - though if you tried a small forcefield and a large racer, the racer back might be longer.

Theoretically, the BP4 backs are the same size if they're CE1 or CE2 :

I'm not sure which one Scott is using, as their CE2 back is a different shape to their CE1 back.

 

[carlbiker]

I'm not sure where you're getting the 24% ? Are you sure this isn't just different sizes ? If you look at my Forcefield review, the Size Small Bakc is larger than the Racer Size Medium back - though if you tried a small forcefield and a large racer, the racer back might be longer.

Theoretically, the BP4 backs are the same size if they're CE1 or CE2 :

View attachment 41535

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I'm not sure which one Scott is using, as their CE2 back is a different shape to their CE1 back.

I think it was the shoulder pads I'd measured, I think you have both the pro motion 2 and the Forcefield, you should find the CE2 pads are bigger, I'd also read that part of being CE2 meant they also had to be larger in size, if you check the thickness the CE2 is quite abit thicker 16mm vs 21mm regarding the back protection but interesting to see the other dimensions are the same, I didn't realise the back was that much smaller when I just ordered.....

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think it was the shoulder pads I'd measured, I think you have both the pro motion 2 and the Forcefield, you should find the CE2 pads are bigger, I'd also read that part of being CE2 meant they also had to be larger in size, if you check the thickness the CE2 is quite abit thicker 16mm vs 21mm regarding the back protection but interesting to see the other dimensions are the same, I didn't realise the back was that much smaller when I just ordered.....

There's some comparison photo's of the two on the Forcefield review. The Forcefield shoulders are definitely larger, the picture oddly doesn't do the size difference justice. The D3O ones sit inside them quite easily.

I'm not sure size is strictly CE2 dependant, I've a few CE2 backs which are quite small.

 

[carlbiker]

@Zimmerframe can we make a channel pal?

 

[carlbiker]

interesting one about LP1 D30 (better ventilation) vs T5 D30

 

[carlbiker]

Armortec Long Sleeve Shirt D3O was built with athletes in mind. The durable and breathable materia… | Long sleeve shirts, Long sleeve tshirt men, Long sleeve hoodie - https://www.gravityprotection.co.uk/mountain-bike-protection/demon-armor-tec-d30-top.html looked great on the arms, shame about the rest though......

I've ordered the 2 Forcefield tops to try, if there no good I can return to the Leeds branch without issue. The bulky gravity top I'm tempted, the Scott one too, just trying to work out which one I can pimp up with CE2 before ordering...my racer one I could pimp up but the chest is naff and cant be changed without stitching hmm

 

[Jasext]

Incidentally I’ve found a place selling these for £43 Scott Scott Softcon 2 Knee Guards | Motocross, Enduro, Trail, Trial | GreenlandMX but turns out I’m oddly proportioned.....my thigh is 41 and my calf is 42 so would anyone know is it better to aim for the correct calf or thigh size? Im a large in thigh but XL in calf

Where is the place selling these for £43 ?

 

[carlbiker]

Pardon our interruption...

I'm not sure if the CE1 pads can be swapped out for CE2.......

Other bargain knee pads are here too: Forcefield Limb Tubes CW Straps L2 Titanium | J&S Accessories - CE2 Forcefield Body Armour - Sizing Guides it doesn't have this model but the sizing seems consistent on different pads like here for example (even cheaper! but CE1) Forcefield Winter Sport Tube 1 Knee Protection - Free Delivery options on All Orders from Surfdome UK

Winter Pro Tube X-V 2 - newer version

I liked the look of the K-pact Zip but wanted shin cover so considered the select but then wondered if they might be cumbersome but then I've discovered these ION S_Pad_Amp Shin Protectors black at bikester.co.uk which is cool as now you can have either select mode or standard.....only trouble is you cant buy these knee guards for love of money right now! They are CE2 also.....

 

[carlbiker]

Mountain Biking - Active & Safe interesting research regarding hit zones

 

[carlbiker]

https://activesafe.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Mountain-Biking.pdf it’s an old report but seems well studied...I’ll quote one of their references here:

Scrotal anomalies have been reported to account for 45- 46% of injured cases

 

[Zimmerframe]

Scrotal anomalies have been reported to account for 45- 46% of injured cases

Most accidents are part of a balls up !

Another quote :

It is reported that 85% of mountain bike riders will experience some sort of trauma during a season

I feel so much more normal all of a sudden .. it won't last ...

 

[carlbiker]

Most accidents are part of a balls up !

Another quote :

It is reported that 85% of mountain bike riders will experience some sort of trauma during a season

I feel so much more normal all of a sudden .. it won't last ...

???? Well Gary will be part of the 15% I think! Honestly I see it coming, I was zipping down a trail and there were multiple occasions where any split second error could end badly! The small trees I noticed come close to you and I’m like, ah this half egg shell on my head will do sweet fk all to stop me looking like Sam Pilgrim if I don’t level some of this shiz up!

But my goodness, has the world gone mad? I can’t buy the Lazer Evo FF Large anywhere other than bikeparts.co.uk. although Im also not a fan of the massive Lazer logo you see on the black Lazer Revolution FF MIPS Helmet, Matt Black, Large liked the green/red version but it’s only available for £220 as an import Lazer Revolution Ff Mips Helmet 2020 - Helmets so I may go for the Bell or the switchblade....

 

[Zimmerframe]

But my goodness, has the world gone mad? I can’t buy the Lazer Evo FF Large anywhere

Gary's balls are so big they're like two giant sperm filled Zorbs capable of deflecting anything which may cause injury.

There's been a few FF threads which might help you out ..

Selfishly, I can only immediately remember this one ..

Which Enduro Full face ? Fox ProFrame or Endura MT500 Full - Other ?

As someone who rides faster than their ability (anything above 0kph) I fall off a lot. After a nasty crash and concussion last year I bought a Smiths Forefront 2 with Koroyd - as I wanted something with a crumple zone. I have an automatic monthly purchase for these on Amazon to keep me in...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[carlbiker]

Gary's balls are so big they're like two giant sperm filled Zorbs capable of deflecting anything which may cause injury.

There's been a few FF threads which might help you out ..

Selfishly, I can only immediately remember this one ..

Which Enduro Full face ? Fox ProFrame or Endura MT500 Full - Other ?

As someone who rides faster than their ability (anything above 0kph) I fall off a lot. After a nasty crash and concussion last year I bought a Smiths Forefront 2 with Koroyd - as I wanted something with a crumple zone. I have an automatic monthly purchase for these on Amazon to keep me in...

www.emtbforums.com

No scrotal injuries there for sure!! Cheers for the link, I took the Forcefield back in the end, the elbow pads are the size of knee pads but the ’freefit’ system I’m not sure whether they mould over time but they slip further down my arm then I’m happy with. The Racer is perfectly central on me but after trying them all the CE1 pads are token gesture when you compare.....such a shame the racer top chest is stitched up! I would have just upgraded to CE2 sas-tech or SAS-TEC SC-1/02 Elbow/Knee Protectors - buy cheap ▷ FC-Moto and the back maybe then the front.

But, alas now I’m placing orders for the Demon V3 and the Scott....the lols!

ps I did a video review, I need to just check I don’t look like someone with special needs and then I may post it of the 3 tops...it’s a very rushed on the spot jobbie before I went to pick the kids up from school but if anyone’s interested then I’ll post

 

[Zimmerframe]

ps I did a video review, I need to just check I don’t look like someone with special needs and then I may post it of the 3 tops...it’s a very rushed on the spot jobbie before I went to school but if anyone’s interested then I’ll post

I think I can speak for everyone - after the 007 photo poses you can't hold back on the video !!! (unless you delve into how the tops don't suitably prevent scrotal injuries )

Just remember, don't worry, however bad you think you might look - we WILL judge you and it will be worse !

Make sure you do it as a "review" then it might get upgrade to "article" and you'll be on the Front page - which is better than page 3....

 

[carlbiker]

I think I can speak for everyone - after the 007 photo poses you can't hold back on the video !!! (unless you delve into how the tops don't suitably prevent scrotal injuries )

Just remember, don't worry, however bad you think you might look - we WILL judge you and it will be worse !

Make sure you do it as a "review" then it might get upgrade to "article" and you'll be on the Front page - which is better than page 3....

? ! Just so you know, I hold you fully responsible for any actions I am about to take.....including any roasting or any future scrotal damaging testing that I decide to perform when the new tops arrive!