Price of bikes - some thoughts....

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I don't work in the bike industry so I don't have the price breakdown. But even if I did it would not help the argument. The fact that a bike maker just assembles items bought off the shelf does not mean that there is no design and development cost embedded in the price. If the design was older than the write off period of the initial design and development cost then the item may be sold cheaper without affecting the profit. If we were still buying rusting steel framed bikes with rod brakes then they would be really cheap if there was a market for them!. Once the products have been made whether they are components or complete bikes, if they don't sell fast enough, every maker and/or retailer discounts them. They do this because they lose less money that way. All companies do it except those that deliberately restrict the amount they make, or trash any they can't sell as a matter of policy.

@Gary is right, if people object to paying the price in sufficient numbers, the stocks of unsold bikes will rise and prices will fall. The answer is in our hands.

Well, it somewhat coincides with my working theory that the end user/consumer does have some control to either determine or influence the net price of the product in question.

I've read other threads previously which you have kindly left your in depth comments on which are pretty much consistent with what you've highlighted now so I'll keep an open mind.

Accessibility and availability remains my working theory but I'll be sure to swing you an early draft of my article once I've finally got testimonials from in side sources.

Respect Steve ??

 

[Gyre]

Yes the components are all bought in at zero design or development cost to the bike maker. But the design and development costs are still there embedded in the item that they pay for. No bike maker actually "paid for" the design and development of the Sram 12-speed transmission, or the Fox 38 fork, or the Shimano motor, or the ........... Even if they buy an off the shelf frame from a far away country someone has paid for the design, testing and development of the frame. There is no free ride.

Right. OP started with a completely faulty premise. R&D is amortized in the price of every single item on the bike. A company that doesn't do that isn't going to be in business very long.

Even in the defense industry where a lot of the initial R&D is paid for by the government, some portion of the cost is still amortized across the production run, so later runs cost less than the LRIP and early full production runs.

 

[STATO]

This has to be one the greatest examples of cycling "taking the piddle" that I have succumbed to.

£9 for a 4g piece of injection moulded plastic.

Bontrager Blendr ION Light High Mount | Sigma Sports

See i dont understand this. The item you are buying for £9 is specific for bontrager stems, and their higher end ones at that, and its a specific piece for a Bontrager ION light, and purely for the purpose of making something that already fits your bike fit that little bit neater... i really dont think £9 is expensive. You want a generic light mount they can sell loads of? you are paying £5 for something that looks like it came on a supermarket bike or £9 might get you a decent generic mount. Look for something that gives you a custom neat fit for 2 specific items and you either cant get them or you have to go custom 3D for at least £20 (Light Mounts Archives - Raceware Direct - Custom Cycle Components). Specialized is the only other bike company selling lights and even theirs dont integrate anywhere as nicely as your item.

 

[Pdoz]

Back when I woz a lad, it took 18 months wages to buy a crappy UK built bike.

3 years ago I spent 2 weeks wages on my giant fugle. It would have been 3 weeks wages, but the lbs gave me a discount .

Then we had some inconveniences - the slaves were moved out of their cramped accomodation and even shipped away. Factories closed, and then reopened at lower worker density - same overheads, possibly higher wages, less production. Makes you wonder why the shimano factory got burnt down?

The world changed, and despite working my arse off whilst most of my country were locked at home my personal business costs went through the roof, my take home profit crashed and the real value of those $ is anyones guess.


But I can still buy a cutting edge " overpriced" exotic carbon fibre emtb - for about 5 weeks wages?


When the Chinese are buying uk built bikes for 3 weeks wages , feel free to complain

 

[Hob Nob]

The price of second hand E mountain bikes up for sale is what makes me laugh. I think it says something in itself when people are asking 7k - 12k for a used bike. The for sale section on this forum is full of them. Imagine paying £12,000 for a bike and then realising is was not what you wanted or hoped for and then trying to sell it for a small loss ?. GLWTS?

Why? People will only pay what they are prepared to spend. If someone is prepared to spend that much, then why is it a problem? Personally I think it's great - i've never subscribed to the bullsh*t that as soon as you put the wheels on dirt, whatever your bike is, it's worth a packet of crisps & the buyer is doing you a favour to take it away.

Quite open that I took full advantage of this recently. I'm fortunate enough to ride for a shop, so everything is at trade. I recently sold my Rail, after 3000km & a years worth of use for 8% less than the RRP. The buyer was happy to pay that, as he didn't want to wait 10 months for a new one, and I was very happy as it got me into a new Gen3 Levo for no outlay.

 

[apac]

Why? People will only pay what they are prepared to spend. If someone is prepared to spend that much, then why is it a problem? Personally I think it's great - i've never subscribed to the bullsh*t that as soon as you put the wheels on dirt, whatever your bike is, it's worth a packet of crisps & the buyer is doing you a favour to take it away.

Quite open that I took full advantage of this recently. I'm fortunate enough to ride for a shop, so everything is at trade. I recently sold my Rail, after 3000km & a years worth of use for 8% less than the RRP. The buyer was happy to pay that, as he didn't want to wait 10 months for a new one, and I was very happy as it got me into a new Gen3 Levo for no outlay.

I just think it's a shame when second hand bikes are up for sale AND being sold for more than what the first owner actually paid for the bike. But I suppose it's both greed and want that dominate the scene right now.

 

[Blokie]

I just think it's a shame when second hand bikes are up for sale AND being sold for more than what the first owner actually paid for the bike. But I suppose it's both greed and want that dominate the scene right now.

Why is it greed if somebody sells their 2nd hand bike to somebody for more than they paid for it - clearly the buyer is happy to pay the agreed amount, and it's likely that a like-for-like equivalent spec'd brand new bike will be thousands of pounds more expensive to buy now than it was 2 or 3 years ago.

 

[apac]

Why is it greed if somebody sells their 2nd hand bike to somebody for more than they paid for it - clearly the buyer is happy to pay the agreed amount, and it's likely that a like-for-like equivalent spec'd brand new bike will be thousands of pounds more expensive to buy now than it was 2 or 3 years ago.

Jesus dude , I didn't want to get into an arguement with you?. You are better than me, it's ok. The pushing up of prices are alienating those who cannot afford to stay in the sport, even if they want to buy a used bike.

 

[Blokie]

Jesus dude , I didn't want to get into an arguement with you?. You are better than me, it's ok. The pushing up of prices are alienating those who cannot afford to stay in the sport, even if they want to buy a used bike.

I'm not arguing, just joining into the healthy debate I just don't see why people selling their used bike should be thought of as greedy and should instead be some sort of martyr and sell their bike for potentially significantly less than current market value, and then go and buy their new bike that the new massively increased cost so that some additional people can get into the sport.

I agree by the way that the prices are way higher than I'd like them to be, and I could only justify buying my 2021 E140 doe to using the Cycle2 Work scheme, but that doesn't mean market value shouldn't apply.

 

[Moe Ped]

Jesus dude , I didn't want to get into an arguement with you?. You are better than me, it's ok. The pushing up of prices are alienating those who cannot afford to stay in the sport, even if they want to buy a used bike.

how is his point an argument ? his response is far more valid than yours that second hand prices are too high the second hand market regulates itself.

 

[apac]

how is his point an argument ? his response is far more valid than yours that second hand prices are too high the second hand market regulates itself.

I'm going up Cwm Carn mountain bike centre on my bike now. See you all later?

 

[Hobo Mikey]

At the end of the day it’s everybody’s choice to buy or not to buy whatever the price tag.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

I just think it's a shame when second hand bikes are up for sale AND being sold for more than what the first owner actually paid for the bike. But I suppose it's both greed and want that dominate the scene right now.

apply that logic to buying houses... should they always be sold for less or the same as the new price, no of course not. the market dictates their worth. If you are selling and replacing a bike its no different to houses, your new purchase will be on the same financial scale.
FWIW, I got a discount on my Levo and could sell it for what i paid. but I still gotta buy a new bike assuming im not leggin it with the cash..
I wish I had asked more when I sold my 19 carbon comp !

 

[apac]

 

[Gary]

What sort of idiots are paying new Ebike prices for tired 2yr old second hand Ebikes?
Actually... Don't bother answering that. idiocy does still seem rife in the Ebike fraternity.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

View attachment 67713

I must get there, I only live 45 mins away still not been

 

[apac]

 

[apac]

I must get there, I only live 45 mins away still not been

We could meet up if you ever fancy it.

 

[apac]

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Allow me to 'throw a spanner in the works'.

Cast your minds back two years ago where some use to say that eebs cost the same as regular bikes (I'm sure you can all think of atleast one person who has said that).

Can we honestly now say that this not (nor has it ever been) true ?

 

[apac]

A lot muddier than expected.

 

[Zimmerframe]

A lot muddier than expected. View attachment 67721 View attachment 67722

Did you pee down your left leg to clean it off ?

 

[apac]

Did you pee down your left leg to clean it off ?

Yeah I did, and then remembered I wasn't wearing my waterproof socks?, but it kept my toes warm?

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

We could meet up if you ever fancy it.

yep, would love that!

 

[Zimmerframe]

yep, would love that!

You could clean his other leg for him. A sort of symbiotic MTB meet up !

 

[apac]

yep, would love that!

I go there regularly, it's a 20 minute drive for me. I'm currently off work until September so message me if/when the time feels right for you. The trails are fun and never intimidating. I just wear knee pads and an open face lid.

 

[apac]

You could clean his other leg for him. A sort of symbiotic MTB meet up !

i may like to splash me own boots, but it ain't a team sport.

 

[Calsun]

What is seldom understood is that for any item that is manufactured the selling price is going to be roughly 7 times the cost to manufacture. The manufacturer has to cover overhead which includes R&D, purchasing, accounting, warehousing, marketing, and other costs that are necessary to run a business. A bike that costs $400 to produce will be sold to the distributor/importer for $1200 and then the distributor will sell it to the bike shop for $1800 and the bike shop will sell it to the customer for $2400.

Some businesses do away with the intermediate dealer and sell direct to the customer as with Canyon and Radpower and Blitx and enjoy an even greater profit margin. But this are still tiny companies with few resources. Shimano, Trek, Cannondale, and Giant, are at an entirely different level and are far more likely to be around 5 years from now. The good news is that more bikes are now mid drive and use components that are easy to replace and to upgrade and not dependent on the company that assembled the original bike.

There has also been a tremendous increase in costs for manufacturers with the problems from the pandemic that continue to wreak havoc on the supply chain. There is a shortage at present with steel and paper in China and as more companies have relocated factories from Japan and the USA and Europe to Asia, there have been more problems with supplying factories and ultimately customers. It takes twice as long and costs twice as much to obtain a shipping container and costs at the receiving ports have doubled for importers.

The Trump tariffs on aluminum and steel have benefited his important donors but it has also increase the retail prices for many products by 25% as a result. Tariffs amount to a VAT tax on goods sold in the USA. For the past 40 years jobs have been shipped out of the USA to cripple unions and make a few people richer, and what is not realized is that along with "jobs" the technology and expertise and capital was also sent to Asia by U.S. corporations. Wall Street is delighted but Main Street has been decimated.

What bothers me is how people will bash China made products but then happily go shop at Wal-Mart, Harbor Freight, or Amazon and buy product produced, often with slave labor, in China. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Norange]

What is seldom understood is that for any item that is manufactured the selling price is going to be roughly 7 times the cost to manufacture. The manufacturer has to cover overhead which includes R&D, purchasing, accounting, warehousing, marketing, and other costs that are necessary to run a business. A bike that costs $400 to produce will be sold to the distributor/importer for $1200 and then the distributor will sell it to the bike shop for $1800 and the bike shop will sell it to the customer for $2400.

It's nowhere near 7x in my experience - but granted bike industry might be different.

 

[Gary]

Allow me to 'throw a spanner in the works'.

Cast your minds back two years ago where some use to say that eebs cost the same as regular bikes (I'm sure you can all think of atleast one person who has said that).

Can we honestly now say that this not (nor has it ever been) true ?

Of course they don't Neeko. They all have a additional motor and battery FFS!
But that doesn't mean they don't STILL represent similar value to normal bikes. An Emtb generally costs somewhere between £1200 - £2000 more than the equvalent normal bike from the same manufacturer with the same spec.
I'm not sure what's so difficult to accept about this? Bearing in mind the motor/battery and all the required wiring/controller/sensor/display parts and charger etc. required with most common mid motor Emtbs retails for £2k+

Yesterday* I briefly rode a mid range Cannondale roadbike with an RRP of £8k. The top end version is £10500 (No that's not a typo)
TBH I still preferred my 9yr old TCR

Expensive bicycles isn't something new. So can we please all just stop moaning about prices? It really does make for incredibly dull reading!

Yeah. Thought not