Opinion on Orbea changing cranks for cheaper than spec

[Andyb13]

I purchased a Obrea Rise Team with different cranks arms to the spec on the Orbea website which where the E-Thirteen carbon cranks. It came with the E-Thirteen alloy crank arms and a letter informing me they would be changed for free once the correct ones became available.
They recently sent me an email informing I can have a set of Shimano FC-EM900 crnakset to meet and exceed my expectation sand a 100 pounds to spend on there website.
I don't see these as an upgrade, there is a big price difference of roughly 200 pounds and think the 100 pound voucher is an insult as I have already paid for the carbon cranks in the purchase price.
Anybody else had the email for replacement cranks and whats your opinion

 

[Ducman71]

I'm in the same situation with an M-TEAM that was shipped with alloys, and I got the email also. I'm OK with it, though I would have preferred $100 in actual cash (VISA gift card or whatever) rather than a credit to spend with them; unless you are planning on buying the range extender, a credit to use on their website is not terribly useful. Anyway, I can sympathize with the difficulty of their supply shortage. The difference in market value between the e*13 carbon and the FC-EM900 is about $125 USD, so the $100 credit seems reasonable considering they are letting you keep the e*13 alloys that the bike shipped with as well. Whether or not you see the Shimano cranks as an upgrade or not is all a matter of perspective. There are more than a few here and on other forums that have had problems with their e*13 cranks (both alloy and carbon) loosening and falling off, and those people seem they would certainly prefer the Shimano arms. I've personally not had any problems with the e*13 alloys that came on my bike after months of riding. Ideally, I'd have preferred them to provide the option of lowering the price of the bike by $300 at the time of purchase with the alloy cranks in lieu of offering replacements when available. Nonetheless, I've been enjoying the bike a lot for the past few months, and in any case I'm glad that I was able to get the bike with the alloy cranks and enjoy it this summer rather than waiting for the up-spec cranks to be available (either the e*13 carbon or Shimano ones) before I could get the bike.

 

[R120]

The best cranks for the Steps system are the Shimano XT M0850, in terms of real world performance IMO.

Get the dealer to swap you out for some of those in your desired length and job done.

 

[Ducman71]

The best cranks for the Steps system are the Shimano XT M0850

Is there any actual comparison (specs or detailed description) of the various EP8 compatible crank arms from Shimano (FC-EM900, FC-M8150, FC-M8050, FC-E8050) anywhere? The Shimano website is particularly useless to explain the differences. Even the alpha-numeric naming convention on these cranks are hard to make any sense of. On most of their components, it's pretty easy to figure out the hierarchy based on the naming convention, but not on the STEPS crank arms.

 

[Andyb13]

I contacted Orbea directly and this is the reply I received.
In February 2021 Shimano warned about possible damages and breaks in the shaft of the EP8 RS motor that equips our Rise model when it is combined with cranks from other manufacturers than Shimano.
At Orbea, we carry out investigations with our supplier e*Thirteen to try to identify and correct this incompatibility.

Since then, e*Thirteen has been able to ensure the reliability of its e*spec Plus aluminum cranks. However, they have recently issued a statement where they inform that proper operation for the e*spec
Race Carbon cranks is not assured. Currently these cranksets are not being marketed by the manufacturer.

We have not found carbon cranks that Shimano guarantees 100% compatibility with its EP8 engine, so Orbea has decided to provide our users with the best cranks available on the market, the Shimano EM900 for EP8.
This crankset is Shimano's top of the range, comparable in quality to the XTR segment for the EP8 engine.

 

[Ducman71]

Thanks for sharing that. Quite a complete and transparent explanation. I wonder what this bit...

...they have recently issued a statement where they inform that proper operation for the e*spec Race Carbon cranks is not assured.

means for those that already have the carbon cranks on their M-TEAM/M-LTD?

 

[NorthernBloke]

I think Orbea should do a general recall on all Rise with e*13 cranks. Inspect the drive mechanism for any possible damage, replace any components which show damage due to the cranks and then replace all cranks with Shimano ones. I have had problems with my cranks as stated and initially it was pure denial that anything was wrong.

They either can't do a general recall as they don't have the supply of Shimano or as I suspect, they are burying their heads in the sand hoping that most bikes will be ok and not develop problems. Thus mitigating any costs to themselves.

The problem is that if the cranks damage the motor going forward, the cost to Orbea in terms of warranty claims and more importantly reputation will be far more than a few thousand crank arms.

The Rise is not a cheap and cheerful e-bike, it is an expensive outlay particularly in LTD and TEAM mode.

Therefore Orbea need to adopt a no quibble policy on this problem now.

 

[Chicane]

Is there any actual comparison (specs or detailed description) of the various EP8 compatible crank arms from Shimano (FC-EM900, FC-M8150, FC-M8050, FC-E8050) anywhere? The Shimano website is particularly useless to explain the differences. Even the alpha-numeric naming convention on these cranks are hard to make any sense of. On most of their components, it's pretty easy to figure out the hierarchy based on the naming convention, but not on the STEPS crank arms.

Scroll down to see cranks. The 900 and 8150 are virtually the same hollowtech, shape, weight also, but the 8150 cost less. The older 8050 crank arms are specked for the E8000.

EP8 EP800 SERIES | SHIMANO BIKE COMPONENT | SHIMANO BIKE-EU

To Build Closer Relationships between People, Nature, and Bicycles. We believe in the power of cycling to create a better world as we move forward. We inspire all people to enjoy our products in their everyday lives and where they take them.

bike.shimano.com

 

[RickBullotta]

I think Orbea should do a general recall on all Rise with e*13 cranks. Inspect the drive mechanism for any possible damage, replace any components which show damage due to the cranks and then replace all cranks with Shimano ones. I have had problems with my cranks as stated and initially it was pure denial that anything was wrong.

They either can't do a general recall as they don't have the supply of Shimano or as I suspect, they are burying their heads in the sand hoping that most bikes will be ok and not develop problems. Thus mitigating any costs to themselves.

The problem is that if the cranks damage the motor going forward, the cost to Orbea in terms of warranty claims and more importantly reputation will be far more than a few thousand crank arms.

The Rise is not a cheap and cheerful e-bike, it is an expensive outlay particularly in LTD and TEAM mode.

Therefore Orbea need to adopt a no quibble policy on this problem now.

I have an email into Orbea USA and to the shop that I picked up my bike from. Let's see what they say. Crickets thus far.

 

[Andyb13]

I think Orbea should do a general recall on all Rise with e*13 cranks. Inspect the drive mechanism for any possible damage, replace any components which show damage due to the cranks and then replace all cranks with Shimano ones. I have had problems with my cranks as stated and initially it was pure denial that anything was wrong.

They either can't do a general recall as they don't have the supply of Shimano or as I suspect, they are burying their heads in the sand hoping that most bikes will be ok and not develop problems. Thus mitigating any costs to themselves.

The problem is that if the cranks damage the motor going forward, the cost to Orbea in terms of warranty claims and more importantly reputation will be far more than a few thousand crank arms.

The Rise is not a cheap and cheerful e-bike, it is an expensive outlay particularly in LTD and TEAM mode.

Therefore Orbea need to adopt a no quibble policy on this problem now.

I don't think this is just an Orbea problem, other manufacturers are using the shimano EP8 with the E 13 cranks. I have the E 13 race carbon on my Trek with the BOSCH and one of the crank arms did fall off, however a bit of threadlock and extra torque I have had no issues since.
I think the issue is when they come loose they damage the splines on the motor arms.

 

[NorthernBloke]

Yep solved mine the same way following the advice on this blog, I didn't notice any damage to the motor arms nor did a local dealer when I took it for an inspection (which they didn't charge, which was nice especially as I didn't buy the bike from them).
My concern is that if it happens in twelve months time and it does damage the motor, are they just going to turn around and say 'fair wear and tear' and then it's a costly repair to the motor?

 

[Ducman71]

Scroll down to see cranks.

EP8 EP800 SERIES | SHIMANO BIKE COMPONENT | SHIMANO BIKE-EU

To Build Closer Relationships between People, Nature, and Bicycles. We believe in the power of cycling to create a better world as we move forward. We inspire all people to enjoy our products in their everyday lives and where they take them.

bike.shimano.com

The 900 and 8150 look identical except for the surface finish and the logo applied. There are no specs at all on the Shimano page (weight or anything else), just basic dimensions (Q factor and available lengths).

 

[mark.ai]

I have a set of the FC-EM900 cranks in 175mm and just weighed the pair at 440g.

 

[Chicane]

I have a set of the FC-EM900 cranks in 175mm and just weighed the pair at 440g.

My M-8150 170mm pair weighs 446g. MSRP $155. Anyone have a weight for the E13 alloy crank arms?

 

[Ducman71]

The published weight for the e*13 alloy plus cranks are 446g for 170mm, so the same as the 8150 Shimano. The e*13 carbon cranks (for Bosch/Brose) are published at 335g for 170mm, so considerably less. Based on what @mark.ai weighed his cranks at, it seems the EM-900 cranks would be slightly lighter than the 8150 (though essentially the same for practical purposes), but not close to the carbon cranks. Of course, weight is not the only consideration; not coming loose and destroying your motor spindle is another worthwhile feature...

 

[Chicane]

The 900 and 8150 look identical except for the surface finish and the logo applied. There are no specs at all on the Shimano page (weight or anything else), just basic dimensions (Q factor and available lengths).

The 900 series isn’t really worth the $40-70 more for being 5-10g lighter. My are still sitting on the shelf as I haven’t had and issue with my E13 with 250 miles on my bike.

 

[Ducman71]

Agreed. If purchasing new, the incremental price doesn't make sense based on the negligible weight difference. Back to the question from the OP, given that the Shimano cranks are essentially the same weight as the e*13 alloy cranks they are replacing, and further that Orbea is saying that the e*13 alloys are now confirmed to be compatible with the EP8 without concerns, it does make Orbea's plan sound a little lame. Essentially: "We're going to give you Shimano cranks that are effectively the same as the e*13 cranks that are already on your bike, which are 100g heavier than the carbon cranks you paid for when buying the bike, and we're going to give you a $100 credit that you can only spend with Orbea..." When you say it that way, it's...unsatisfying. Would have been better to just give all affected customers the option of a $300 VISA card or a free range extender and call it a day.

 

[NorthernBloke]

A free range extender would be nice....I doubt that though

 

[Ducman71]

I also doubt it, but it would definitely turn some frowns upside down, which should be their goal considering they were not able to deliver the bikes as advertised/marketed per specs. Offering the FC-EM900 cranks at this point is fine, but they should also offer to just refund people for the incremental price of the carbon cranks they never received if they would rather have that than a set of Shimano cranks that are essentially similar to the e*13 alloys that they shipped the bikes with.

If at the time of purchase they had just said, "Hey, the carbon cranks are not available now, and we don't know if/when we'll be able to get them, but we're reducing the price of the bike $300 as a result. If we can get the carbon cranks in the future, we'll make them available to you for the same $300...", I would have never thought twice about the cranks again.

 

[Lee Dove]

In the real world carbon cranks are a waste of space. I have broken 3 sets on my normal bike and given up and fitted Hope cranks. On the EBike the weight saving is pointless. You are better with alloy cranks, so take the offer and say thank you.

 

[crencos]

It is really a compatibility problem with e13 carbon crank arms. 2022 Rise will have FC-EM900 on both LTD and Team and e13 alloy on M10 and M20.
The difference between carbon and alloy e13 arms, apart from material, alloy arms have 2 bolts and carbon have only 1 bolt and this is the issue. I have swapped the end caps on my Team because I stripped the hex hole trying to take the end cap out. Now I have solid end caps with 10mm hex hole and some threadlock. When I saw that 2022 models come with FC-EM900 (I couldn´t give this info earlier) I bought a set of FC-EM900 as a spare in case my carbon e13 crank arms have some problem.
Orbea delivers FC-EM900 to all LTD and Team registered users that have carbon or alloy e13 crank arms and a money compensation also. This is a good move from Orbea to not close the eyes to a crank arm problem.
Personnaly I prefer a heavy but reliable crank arm set than one that keeps loosening.

 

[Ducman71]

I get it. I don't really need carbon cranks on a bike like this, and I understand that the reason Orbea are not fitting them anymore is because of the compatibility problem. That said, my point is that part of the incremental price I paid for the M-Team (over the M10) was due to the carbon cranks, and the FC-EM900 cranks they would like to send me now are not functionally any better than the e*13 alloy ones that they fitted as a temporary measure when the bike was delivered due to the lack of availability of the carbon cranks. The e*13 alloys that are on the bike are fine, and the FC-EM900 are not any lighter. It seems a waste of everyone's time (mine, Orbea's, and the dealer) for them to give me a second set of cranks that are functionally the same as what is already on the bike. I'd rather just get back the $300 that the originally specified carbon cranks accounted for in the price I paid for the bike and let them keep the Shimano cranks.

This is a completely different situation than what they should do for M-Team/M-LTD owners that received their bikes with e*13 carbon cranks in the first place; those people should get a set of FC-EM900 cranks, and some additional credit for their trouble.

 

[NorthernBloke]

I can live without Carbon cranks, so I will use the alloys until I get the Shimano from Orbea (although I haven't been contacted by Orbea as some have).
Do I have full confidence in them? No
I still think twice before applying a lot of torque to them when going up more technical steep inclines.
I understand Orbea's reasoning in trying to make a super light e-bike as light as possible (hence carbon everything on the LTD). But there are some parts like cranks which just need to be tough.
When my XTR cassette wears out I shall look to replace it with something lower down the food chain. My derailleur is already marked from stone strikes, and sometimes the middle of the road Shimano and SRAM makes more sense for MTB.

 

[Ducman71]

Digging this thread back up... Have any of you that received the email from Orbea regarding the replacement Shimano cranks actually gotten them yet? I got the email in October, contacted my dealer shortly after to have them file the claim, and not seen them yet (despite periodically asking for updates).

 

[mark.ai]

Digging this thread back up... Have any of you that received the email from Orbea regarding the replacement Shimano cranks actually gotten them yet? I got the email in October, contacted my dealer shortly after to have them file the claim, and not seen them yet (despite periodically asking for updates).

Yep spoke to my dealer in Dec and they had the cranks 3 weeks later (in the UK) - must depend on availability though …

 

[Andyb13]

Yep got mine earlier this month, however I placed an order with Orbea in December using the £100 voucher and still haven’t received the goods. Contacted customer services and no reply.
I will not be purchasing any more bikes or goods due to their appalling customer service and delivery.

 

[GizmoSL]

I'm in the same situation with an M-TEAM that was shipped with alloys, and I got the email also. I'm OK with it, though I would have preferred $100 in actual cash (VISA gift card or whatever) rather than a credit to spend with them; unless you are planning on buying the range extender, a credit to use on their website is not terribly useful. Anyway, I can sympathize with the difficulty of their supply shortage. The difference in market value between the e*13 carbon and the FC-EM900 is about $125 USD, so the $100 credit seems reasonable considering they are letting you keep the e*13 alloys that the bike shipped with as well. Whether or not you see the Shimano cranks as an upgrade or not is all a matter of perspective. There are more than a few here and on other forums that have had problems with their e*13 cranks (both alloy and carbon) loosening and falling off, and those people seem they would certainly prefer the Shimano arms. I've personally not had any problems with the e*13 alloys that came on my bike after months of riding. Ideally, I'd have preferred them to provide the option of lowering the price of the bike by $300 at the time of purchase with the alloy cranks in lieu of offering replacements when available. Nonetheless, I've been enjoying the bike a lot for the past few months, and in any case I'm glad that I was able to get the bike with the alloy cranks and enjoy it this summer rather than waiting for the up-spec cranks to be available (either the e*13 carbon or Shimano ones) before I could get the bike.

I am in full agreement with Ducman71 about simply changing the price of the bikes to account for the inability to supply the specified cranks. This replacement program has cost them many times more, I'm sure. They have, in fact, made a lot of blunders with the line, not all due to the supply chain situation, and in the desire to be weight weenies with some of the components (125mm dropper post on all frame sizes as standard equipment, etc.) but overall, it's a good bike, and bringing a new product to market during the Pandemic and follow-on disruptions couldn't have been easy.

 

[Ducman71]

For those that have installed the Shimano FC-EM900, are you using the plastic Shimano preload caps, the caps from the e*13 cranks, or just aftermarket alloy replacement caps? Also, are the FC-EM900s fitting up properly without any spacers (including the stopper plate pin aligning correctly into the spindle)? I note Shimano doesn't specify to use locking compound on the pinch bolts.

 

[NorthernBloke]

Aftermarket titanium caps and bolts (from Amazon both) with Loctite on, 4nm and 14Nm torque respectively on my e13 alloys.
Still waiting for my original spec carbon ones to come or something equivalent from Orbea.

 

[mark.ai]

I've just had an email from Orbea saying they want to replace my original carbon cranks with the Shimano FC-EM900 ones + £100 voucher (on their store).

So, in effect, it sounds like a general recall now ...

This is what they say:

Our suppliers, e*thirteen and Shimano, have informed us that they have identified a possible incompatibility issue between the e*thirteen Race Carbon cranks and the Shimano EP8 RS motor shaft that your bike is equipped with. This incompatibility can cause damage to the motor shaft, causing it to completely break in the worst-case scenario.

Given the uncertainty of when e*thirteen will be able to supply a crank that’s 100% compatible with this motor, we are contacting you about delivering a new set of top-of-the-range Shimano FC-EM900 cranks, the best available cranks on the market for this motor model. We want to ensure you have a reliable, high-quality product as soon as possible so that you can continue to enjoy your bike.

To obtain your cranks, we ask that you visit your official Orbea dealer and show them this email. Your dealer will take care of processing the request to Orbea and installing the new cranks on your Rise.​

We understand the inconvenience this causes you, and to show our gratitude for your patience, please enjoy this 100GBP store discount to spend on orbea.com.