New Pinion integrated gearbox and motor (MGU)

[Streddaz]

probably adds more expense and more failure to the most expensive part of the bike.

I'm not convinced the backwheel really feels lighter either, that sounds like snake oil and seemed to be the thing he was most incistent on getting across more than anything else for some reason.

As Jurassic mentioned, unsprung weight makes a big difference to how well a rear suspension system reacts on the trail. More expense and more failure? Pinion gearboxes are well proven to be super reliable and very low maintenance, the part that would be the most unreliable would be the motor and all Ebikes have them, followed by the chain, derailleur and cassette and you have just removed that from the equation all together. Even if you still run a chain drive, is works like a single speed, so you can have the perfect chain line, it doesn't have to be flexed sideways to go up and down the cassette, plus you can run something like an 8 or 9 speed chain which is stronger and cheaper and with all this, will last forever.
A friend of mine has a Pinion gearbox in his Zerode and he loves it. Hopefully they do a Ebike version, and I'll be straight onto that.

 

[Stoffel]

This is my dream, a combined motor and pinion gearbox with gates belt, I've been wishing for this for a few years. Makes total sense and much less maintenance. Good riddance derailleur and chain!

 

[A06]

Stick this in a Pole Voima, drop the micraphone and walk away knowing emtb perfection has been reached for the self shuttle crowd....ah if only.

Edit: take it a step further and make the battery removable from the DT and offer a non powered gearbox which can be swapped in and out so the bike could be trimmed down for chair lift parks and THAT would indeed be perfection!

 

[Streddaz]

Stick this in a Pole Voima, drop the micraphone and walk away knowing emtb perfection has been reached for the self shuttle crowd....ah if only.

Edit: take it a step further and make the battery removable from the DT and offer a non powered gearbox which can be swapped in and out so the bike could be trimmed down for chair lift parks and THAT would indeed be perfection!

Well considering that the Pole frame is totally machined, redesigning it to fit the pinion gearbox/motor would be a much easier exercise than having to create all new tooling for other manufacturers to fit it in their carbon or aluminium framed bikes.

 

[Another One]

It does look great but just more to break down you can't fix yourself, I think it will be another niche product. It does look great though.

 

[IndigoUnicorn]

It does look great but just more to break down you can't fix yourself, I think it will be another niche product. It does look great though.

It’s a sealed system so, not take anything to break unless you drop it off your auto while hauling ass down the highway.

The Pinion gearbox is already well known for its outstanding reliability—thousands and thousands and thousands of miles with nary an issue.

Besides, it’s literally doing away with the problematic components that require servicing.

No more cleaning and oiling a chain. No more gears to adjust and index, no more cassettes to fall apart.

 

[RebornRider]

FWIW, I'm still running the SRAM 11-speed mech that came on my Levo 4 years ago. I replaced the shift cable last week and was surprised by how much easier the levers are to push. My mech has plenty of scratches, but it's never gotten bent out of alignment. I don't see any need to replace mine with an internal gearbox, but you guys dive in and get the bugs worked out!

 

[Alexbn921]

Want! This is the future and I will be one of the first to get one. Pole, get this in your frame with a belt. Pretty pretty please.

 

[Pdoz]

I'm amongst those who have been impatiently waiting since seeing my first zerode....BUT I'm a bit nervous about what this will do to bike shop viability.

Lets be honest, there are only 2/3 mechanically magical components that the average ham fisted backyard moron pays the lbs to fix:

1 sram brake bleeding ( easy, replace with shimano)
2 wheel rebuilding ( pft, repkacement wheels are cheap now)
3 suspension service ( post it to a specialist)

Which leaves the now threatened

4 derailleur magic - most of us can't even spell it, never mind adjust them. Our cassette tools always seem to be for that other brand, and even if we do have the right tool we don't actually know which way to turn it. Modern gear is though, but that hangy thingy was DESIGNED the break, and frkd if I can work out which one to replace it with or how hard I can tweak it with the hangy thingy lever from hell chainstay breaker tool thing. Not to mention impulse buys of unnecessary bling whilst I'm waiting to pay for yet another chain / cassette/ bottle of chainlube.

So what is my lbs going to do with all that spare time? Where am I going to go to drool over bikes I have no intention of buying, or hear gossip about the latest big brand secret improvement??? Is my motorbike going to get jealous because it only has 6 gears?

 

[Streddaz]

I'm amongst those who have been impatiently waiting since seeing my first zerode....BUT I'm a bit nervous about what this will do to bike shop viability.

Lets be honest, there are only 2/3 mechanically magical components that the average ham fisted backyard moron pays the lbs to fix:

1 sram brake bleeding ( easy, replace with shimano)
2 wheel rebuilding ( pft, repkacement wheels are cheap now)
3 suspension service ( post it to a specialist)

Which leaves the now threatened

4 derailleur magic - most of us can't even spell it, never mind adjust them. Our cassette tools always seem to be for that other brand, and even if we do have the right tool we don't actually know which way to turn it. Modern gear is though, but that hangy thingy was DESIGNED the break, and frkd if I can work out which one to replace it with or how hard I can tweak it with the hangy thingy lever from hell chainstay breaker tool thing. Not to mention impulse buys of unnecessary bling whilst I'm waiting to pay for yet another chain / cassette/ bottle of chainlube.

So what is my lbs going to do with all that spare time? Where am I going to go to drool over bikes I have no intention of buying, or hear gossip about the latest big brand secret improvement??? Is my motorbike going to get jealous because it only has 6 gears?

It's only going to affect Ebikes on the most part so that's still leaves the larger proportion of the marked of normal bikes still to work on. Also who is going to remove and install all the dead ebike motors. They'll have plenty to do.

 

[Kimmoi]

This is what i have been waiting for! Oh_my_god. It's time to start saving money, i have plenty of time to ride my Levo to the end of it's journey.

 

[RustyIron]

This is exciting

Yup, this is the next logical step in eMTB evolution. Since I first started riding eMTB, I've been saying I wanted an integrated gearbox with a belt drive. I'm still a little skeptical, Rob, because I KNOW you would have asked to ride the bike. Since you don't have a REAL review yet, I'm going to assume that the product isn't quite ready for prime time. When it's offered by one of the BIG bike companies or one of my local boutique manufacturers, it will REALLY get my attention.

 

[Lexle]

It is an interesting question with the major brands probably already committed to contracts with Bosch or Shimano or Yamaha etc................and of course Specialized with their relationship with Brose. I suspect the niche brands will be the first to adopt Pinion plus manufacturers of cargo and city bikes. So it would seem from the video Bulls are signed on........who else??

ZEG and their brands is no niche OEM

 

[Lexle]

Yup, this is the next logical step in eMTB evolution. Since I first started riding eMTB, I've been saying I wanted an integrated gearbox with a belt drive. I'm still a little skeptical, Rob, because I KNOW you would have asked to ride the bike. Since you don't have a REAL review yet, I'm going to assume that the product isn't quite ready for prime time. When it's offered by one of the BIG bike companies or one of my local boutique manufacturers, it will REALLY get my attention.

There are other detailed tests including rides available on Velo motion or emtb News.

You will get my personal opinion end of the week when I tried it..

 

[irie]

It is an interesting question with the major brands probably already committed to contracts with Bosch or Shimano or Yamaha etc................and of course Specialized with their relationship with Brose. I suspect the niche brands will be the first to adopt Pinion plus manufacturers of cargo and city bikes. So it would seem from the video Bulls are signed on........who else??

I meant "motor manufacturer". Edited.

 

[Wilbur]

I’m thinking a modular approach might alleviate cost/reliability concerns about a unit construction, much like Triumph pre-unit engines were designed. Gearboxes are likely to be more reliable than motors, so why not make the motor a replaceable component with a backplane

 

[Zimmerframe]

I've not worked out where the speed sensor is yet ????

De-restricting is going to be difficult/impossible ! Especially if you want to use some of the auto functions like auto shifting, pre-select (where it changes to the right gear for the speed when you're descending).

 

[MrSimmo]

I've not worked out where the speed sensor is yet ????

De-restricting is going to be difficult/impossible ! Especially if you want to use some of the auto functions like auto shifting, pre-select (where it changes to the right gear for the speed when you're descending).

View attachment 118408

I was thinking the same; I think we’ll have to see someone starting to modify the firmware to alleviate the restriction issue. There are early versions of modified Bosch smart firmware floating around so hopefully a clever person will do the same here.

 

[goroncy]

It does sound quite noisy in the lower gears, but the tradeoff is better power efficiency, apparently.
I definitely think it's a step in the right direction. I don't know if I'm likely to buy a first gen tho. I'd like to see if it lives up to the longevity claims first. A simple oil change once a year or every 10000 miles sounds fantastic.
Looking at the brands of bikes it seems unlikely I'd see one in a local shop anyway

Has anyone seen any mention of water proofing or dust/water ratings?

I'll say it like that. Pinion has one shot with this. It is a small company that needs a lot of money right now to scale. So they had to do it right. The only one who can do some bad are actually the bike brands. I don't know if Simplon was the best company to choose from. I had massive problems with their China made carbon ebike frames (multiple).

The internals of the motor/gearbox unit have nothing to do even with the best right now - Bosch. Bosch motor has to be fully rebuild around the time the Pinion will need an oil change. This is comparing apples to oranges really. Bosch makes consumer designed motor with multiple plastic parts inside. Pinion just released an industrial machine. I hope that someone will notice this difference in the reviews, and how much money it will save the potential owner that rides a lot.

So I'm very optimistic when it comes to the motor. I am not that ultra optimistic with the bike brands and their first iteration of frame designs for this motor.

 

[RustyMTB]

Would.

Be interesting to see test ride videos which must be round the corner. The bike looks very clean. No mech, cassette, chain, cleaning, lubing etc. is very attractive. I'd want to see riders reactions on drag, weight, balance, range etc. in what genuinely looks like a game changing package. If it delivers on the claims, then you can only see a rush to imitate this system & if that happens, we'll be the winners.

 

[goroncy]

I was thinking the same; I think we’ll have to see someone starting to modify the firmware to alleviate the restriction issue. There are early versions of modified Bosch smart firmware floating around so hopefully a clever person will do the same here.

Yep. As unpopular and "evil" de-restricting is, 25kmh limit is a deal breaker for serious riders. I hope they didn't go full retard on this one like Bosch and they left some relatively easy way to chip hack it.

 

[Jurassic]

I’m thinking a modular approach might alleviate cost/reliability concerns about a unit construction, much like Triumph pre-unit engines were designed. Gearboxes are likely to be more reliable than motors, so why not make the motor a replaceable component with a backplane

I was thinking that this would be logical as well. I know it's seen as very much a retro step with motorbikes (afaik Enfield India were the last to manufacture a non-unit engine/gearbox) but on an ebike with the relatively short life span of current electric motor units it would make more sense.

 

[B1rdie]

I would go with the 9 speed because it has like 33% less parts to break inside than the 12 speed.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Interesting they have gone the heavyweight route of a conventional gearbox with lots of gears all intermeshing. Seems a missed opportunity of updated planetary gears and other CVT type gearing which would reduce the complexity and lower the weight significantly.

I suspect this is just evolution one of a number of evolutions ahead.

 

[maynard]

I want new levo with this .

 

[Zimmerframe]

Interesting they have gone the heavyweight route of a conventional gearbox with lots of gears all intermeshing. Seems a missed opportunity of updated planetary gears and other CVT type gearing which would reduce the complexity and lower the weight significantly.

I suspect this is just evolution one of a number of evolutions ahead.

If you want that, go for the revonte.

 

[emtbeast]

Been waiting for something like this for ever. to Pinion for putting it in reality. Hope it catches up, that though in one part(demand) depends on us...and the other part, preparedness of the big brands accepting the new...since they for sure have big money contracts with bicycle gear manufacturers...that will limit them for a while, time will tell.

There are a few, I think we can say niche(EU) brands using it for now. If these guys do realy everything right, and the bikes perform, this could definitely catch up, what I definitely hope for, more competition, lower the prices.

The MGU on paper and first reports seems amazing, there is a lot to like about a bike with the MGU and belt, although from the first reports it has its flaws also.

1. Really really loud in gears 5 and 9.

2. The shifts 4 to 5 and 8 to 9 gears are a bit long and so disturb the flow when climbing up a hill.

3. In case u need to remove the belt it will probably be a bit tricky.

As the reports are from first models of bikes, Pinion could maybe iron out some of these, although I think this is probably almost the end stage of development/testing etc...so don't have hopes for any significant improvements until fall when first emtbs with it will be available.

As it is these days with any "first" on the market, I don't plan being the BETA tester will let the first adopters to iron out the bugs...and join in later as I see this tech really intriguing

 

[Lexle]

If you want that, go for the revonte.

Which is still not really working

 

[Jurassic]

Whilst I think that a combined mid mounted motor and gearbox is almost certainly the way ahead I'm not so convinced about the belt drive for all conditions. I suspect a conventional chain drive running an eight or nine speed chain (as mentioned previously) may be a better all-round option. I know a few fat bikes run belt drives but I believe that they can be problematic in certain conditions.
A transmission that doesn't require constant lubing does have it's attractions though.

 

[Islandtrader]

I am beyond excited for this. I really hope what I've been reading isn't true though that those of us in north america will have to wait until 2025 to be able to buy a bike with the MGU. I would assume the US would be one of the larger e-bike markets. A huge bummer if that's the case.