New Nicolai with Pinion gearbox announced

[madre]

HI Everyone, here is some information that not everyone may have. On the Nicolai site you can find a tech sheet for each bike as a public Google DOCs document. There is also the one for the Saturn 16 MGU with exploded drawings and torque for all screws. Possibly helpful for one or the other.

SATURN 16 MGU - 2025 - Tech-Sheet

docs.google.com

 

[madre]

I personally love the look of the raw the best. It just looks badass! Plus it’s also easier to maintain. No paint to chip, no anodizing to fade or scratch. Raw really doesn’t need much at all.

I like Raw very much too ,and it is absolutely robust . Unfortunately my eboxx is already raw and I just didn't want the new bike to look too much like the old one

 

[whitymon]

I just saw that
Is it not the same stuff? See that they have a top tube something instead of the remote on the handlebar, this would be way more suitable for emtb.

I guess Nicolai could do it one day.

NB: bike looks like crap.

 

[whitymon]

Well, looking at this

It just does not seem the best solution but maybe this with the basic eshift would keep the programming in the top tube?

 

[Picard12]

Does pinion motor have drag?

 

[Suns_PSD]

All internal transmissions have drag by their nature.

 

[Picard12]

All internal transmissions have drag by their nature.

How much drag is there? Do you feel the drag significantly when pedaling up hills?

 

[Dirtnvert]

Another good 155 crank option for pinion

Ollie Lowthorpe on Instagram: "The new @nsbillet Pinion Smart.shift cranks are out! Limited stock dropping on the site today. I've been using them for a while and they're a must have upgrade if you're using a Pinion gearbox. •VERY stiff and stron

146 likes, 1 comments - ollielowthorpe on October 7, 2024: "The new @nsbillet Pinion Smart.shift cranks are out! Limited stock dropping on the site today. I've been using them for a while and they're a must have upgrade if you're using a Pinion gearbox. •VERY stiff and strong •Lengths from...

www.instagram.com

 

[madre]

I just saw that
Is it not the same stuff? See that they have a top tube something instead of the remote on the handlebar, this would be way more suitable for emtb.

I guess Nicolai could do it one day.

NB: bike looks like crap.

Maybe its me .. but Bulls is absolutly not the same stuff than Nicolai ..

 

[whitymon]

I do not understand what you are referring to @madre , it is the same `engine`, belt, MGU, pinion.

Apart from that yeah, this is a CF frame with a bit less travel, somehow lesser component, price is not the same nor the target but still same system.

 

[kntr]

Maybe its me .. but Bulls is absolutly not the same stuff than Nicolai ..

I agree. The Bulls is a POS.

 

[Suns_PSD]

How much drag is there? Do you feel the drag significantly when pedaling up hills?

Can you feel the 20 watts of drag (just a guess, but it's been measured out there) on a full power e-bike? Probably not.

Can your battery feel it and therefore drains faster? Of course.

Which is exactly why the Pinion gearbox bikes already have a reputation for poor efficiency.

 

[DirkWisely]

From the relatively limited info I've seen, the Saturn seems roughly as efficient as other bikes.

 

[madre]

 

[shib]

Cinematography is top notch. Not much about the bike though, they basically just explained what it is (and sometimes repeated themselves). And teasered some enduro-style trail riding in the beginning, and then the video was over after the alpine trail stuff. Hmm. Or will there be a second part?

Found it also quite interesting how quiet the bike was. Did they nail the mic placement finally and captured real world noise? Or why are all other videos showing a louder bike? I mean, I'm getting one myself, but this is by far the most commercial-looking and -sounding commercial about the Saturn so far...

 

[whitymon]

This is my feeling now about (e)mbn, it is crystal clear now that they just doing sponsoring advertisement with beautiful images.

No the bike is definitely pretty noisy, from the motor, countless video there and there about it. Either you can accept it or not, some people cannot stand it tbh.

 

[madre]

The Bike is absolut quiet. The MGU is more noisy in Gear 1-4. Everbody has to test it on their own if its ok or not. Personal for me the advantages of the MGU are bigger than the disadvantage ( Noise in Gear 1-4 ) would i prefer that it would be less noisy in gear 1-4 ? OFC Yes, but it is what it is.

 

[shib]

What I was referring to is that, compared to other videos showing the same bike, the MGU seems to be very quiet on the EMBN video. Having ridden it myself I know that it is loud(er than that).

 

[whitymon]

To me they just hide this fact to please the audience, not great, less power to their channel.
,
But if you can accept the noise, belt is awesome, I bet people can overcome this

Careful so about the weight that is not really disclose on these video, being 27+kg, it drastically need change of riding and it cannot go as easily on all trail - like you know natural steep/tight forest trail

Got some trail here that on 20kg is start to be difficult but doable, with 7kg damn I do not think personally I would be able to DH them.

 

[madre]

To me they just hide this fact to please the audience, not great, less power to their channel.
,
But if you can accept the noise, belt is awesome, I bet people can overcome this

Careful so about the weight that is not really disclose on these video, being 27+kg, it drastically need change of riding and it cannot go as easily on all trail - like you know natural steep/tight forest trail

Got some trail here that on 20kg is start to be difficult but doable, with 7kg damn I do not think personally I would be able to DH them.

You'd be surprised how well the Nicolai handles. This is because the weight distribution is much better than on your 20kg bike. The unsprung mass on the rear wheel is significantly less than on other bikes.

 

[shib]

I rode a size L MGU around their test track (which is flat, i.e. highest altitude change is 2m) in eco mode and I was amazed at how well that thing handled... even jumping wasn't that hard and certainly not harder than with my 18kg G1. OK, I suck at jumping though, so that might be me. But really, I found it super easy to throw the bike around under me. Which eventually led me to order one, which is due this week. I'm expecting a delay though.

Edit: ... and there it is. Two weeks later.

 

[slickrock]

It's interesting that Nicolai is not using Pinion's own belt tensioner in favor of their own design, which IMHO, is much better with it's transverse spring design. That said, the Nicolai tensioner was actually designed for their EBOX bikes that directly mount to Bosch Gen 4 motors. and is better tucked away in its location aft of the motor. You can see in the Rob's build video that an extra CNC adapter is required to make it fit on Saturn, which places the tensioner more down than aft - not as clean as with the EBOX but certainly better than the Pinion OEM tensioner.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Tried with Ohlins 38 and Ohlins Coil today. Riding so good!

Out of interest what kind of range are people getting (vertical metres). Was disappointed that I only got 1000 metres today (all in Fly mode though).

 

[shib]

My frame is due any day now. Will report range.

 

[whitymon]

Not sure this version is yet really efficient, and as the bike is heavy it is also a toll on that. Depends also on the rider weight Rob seems a tall dude.

Now except the ride quality, this is still concerning for people wanting a new bike , because on another spectrum some very light big ebike, like the Kenevo SL, are also going to give you around 1000m on same kind of suspension Rob put I guess.

 

[slickrock]

So there’s been a lot of talk about weight when it comes to the Saturn. While most have blamed the MGU and battery itself, and perhaps to lesser extent the aluminum frame vs. some theoretical carbon alternative, I am surprised to find out a potential minor suspect is the the spring belt tensioner itself. It comes in a 503 grams (even sans the adapter mentioned earlier), more than the weight of GX T-Type derailleur with battery, albeit at a sprung weight. Admittedly the tensioner is very well made and has an excellent design, with CNC alloy housing and mounts. And while it does have a metal spring inside, I think the tension arm itself is cast iron instead of forged/cast aluminum - it seems too heavy to be otherwise. It’s a substantial component, and for now is the price you have to pay for dual suspension belt drive capability.

Of course, Nicolai could have gone the Rotwild route with a chained MGU bike with a potentially lighter tensioner that starts to look like derailleur all over again, but frankly the appeal of a belt-driven MTB - informed by and my own experience with dual suspension belt drive transmissions - is too good to choose otherwise.

 

[whitymon]

My guess is that it is a part coming from Pinion looking at other bike?

You go a little too far from one part to they could have gone to Rotwild. Looking at the overall picture, this is just 500g over 27+kg.
Nicolai just build very heavy duty bike that's it. If you look at their other flagship the G1 EBOXX KLF, same kind of bike (remove 2-300g with the coil to compare) but with a Bosch CX motor and classic derailleur .. It is 27.2kg.

Still, if you look at the Saturn 14 - 20.5+kg, with an SX motor, the weight is not that bad, not great if you compare to other brand.

 

[shib]

Nicolai has never been a brand to buy from when you're looking for exceptionally light bikes. Even their motor-less XC machine, the Saturn 11, is way too heavy to be a competitor to the real XC racing machines out there. Still, it rides just fine and I have built mine at 12,6kg, and the most important part is that it actually does not break under my 120 kilos, despite using it for trail riding as well. My G1 was 18kg and survived Finale Ligure under me multiple times. Pedalling it uphill was hard, but doable. The Saturn 11 just flies uphill, mostly due to the light carbon wheelset.

And the tensioner, specifically, has to be quite sturdy when you look at the position where it is mounted. Rock strikes are possible there, so I'd rather have it sturdy and heavy than break in the backcountry, leaving me with no chance to pedal back home. However this is just me, YMMV etc.

My frame should be ready today or tomorrow. Did a last minute shock swap...

 

[whitymon]

True you really do not want it to be broken or bent but by its design and location, any bad case would make it dramatic regardless steel or AL.

Definitely for backcountry you want something solid, I might argue that if they could make a lighter one it would be fantastic (I am pretty light in comparison to you - max 73kg)

 

[Onetime]

View attachment 149720

So there’s been a lot of talk about weight when it comes to the Saturn. While most have blamed the MGU and battery itself, and perhaps to lesser extent the aluminum frame vs. some theoretical carbon alternative, I am surprised to find out a potential minor suspect is the the spring belt tensioner itself. It comes in a 503 grams (even sans the adapter mentioned earlier), more than the weight of GX T-Type derailleur with battery, albeit at a sprung weight. Admittedly the tensioner is very well made and has an excellent design, with CNC alloy housing and mounts. And while it does have a metal spring inside, I think the tension arm itself is cast iron instead of forged/cast aluminum - it seems too heavy to be otherwise. It’s a substantial component, and for now is the price you have to pay for dual suspension belt drive capability.

Of course, Nicolai could have gone the Rotwild route with a chained MGU bike with a potentially lighter tensioner that starts to look like derailleur all over again, but frankly the appeal of a belt-driven MTB - informed by and my own experience with dual suspension belt drive transmissions - is too good to choose otherwise.

That is crazy! That could be made to still be strong, but half that weight In all aluminum. That’s ridiculously heavy!