New/ Fixed 2021 Brose or New Shimano EP8?

[Jimbojetset84]

About to buy for the purpose of doing long weekends away. As we all know the motors on the Turbo Levo have their reliability issues, yes the customer service is great but that’s no good to me when I’m 100s of miles away and weekend is paid for with hotels etc. Is this something that’s going to be ‘fixed’ on the 2021 bike release or do I go for the update of the good reliable Shimano E8000 workhorse which will surely be released with the 2021 bikes.

 

[comtn]

As the owner of a '19 that spun a motor not long ago I would bet on the new Shimano motor for reliability.

 

[Mr CRUD]

I have had nothing but 100% reliable fun out of my 3 heavily-abused Shimano motors. To such an extent that I will not buy another make. The Shimano is perfect. They are only upgrading it next year for marketing reasons, I would imagine.
I am also sticking to external 500 batteries. So easy to take a spare in a rucksack. And the weight is centralised.

Shimano got it right first time.

 

[Mikerb]

I have had nothing but 100% reliable fun out of my 3 heavily-abused Shimano motors. To such an extent that I will not buy another make. The Shimano is perfect. They are only upgrading it next year for marketing reasons, I would imagine.
I am also sticking to external 500 batteries. So easy to take a spare in a rucksack. And the weight is centralised.

Shimano got it right first time.

I can say the same for my 2019 Levo. The issues, such as there are issues, with the Levo can largely be avoided. Electrical elements need some simple additional protection from water and use of the motor needs to avoid excessive/prolonged use of turbo and using turbo in a gear that is too high. Small price to pay for a motor/software that enables over 4 times rider input with minimal noise. It is at least a known quantity whereas timescales and spec for any new Shimano motor are uncertain. Some Shimano motored brands have already released 2021 models still using steps 8000.

 

[Mr CRUD]

But... I excessively use turbo (90% of the time) and don't add any extra water protection. And seriously have not had any probs with my Shimano 8000.

 

[Mikerb]

But... I excessively use turbo (90% of the time) and don't add any extra water protection. And seriously have not had any probs with my Shimano 8000.

......yes on a much less powerful and noisy motor.

 

[Mr CRUD]

And less troublesome??? And it's really not noisy, unless you are a pedant.

 

[Gary]

Shimano got it right first time.

and second time? and third time and fourth time and 5th time... (you get the idea) on all my broken Shimano motors. (Genuinely lost count now)

I have had nothing but 100% reliable fun out of my 3 heavily-abused Shimano motors.

how much riding is that on each motor?
And what sort of riding do you do these days?

 

[Mikerb]

I genuinely hope Shimano produce a really good new motor with more power, better software, better bearing protection, smaller and lighter and with bigger capacity batteries. There are few brands I really like that use the Shimano motor but they are less attractive using the existing E 8000.

 

[InRustWeTrust]

Dont know if it is rumors but i heard that specialized have a new belt that is stronger on the new bikes .

I am gonna stick to Shimano beacuse i think the e8000 is a Good motor that is sustainable and an engine that is durable that you can trust.

 

[Steve940]

I have had nothing but 100% reliable fun out of my 3 heavily-abused Shimano motors. To such an extent that I will not buy another make. The Shimano is perfect. They are only upgrading it next year for marketing reasons, I would imagine.
I am also sticking to external 500 batteries. So easy to take a spare in a rucksack. And the weight is centralised.

Shimano got it right first time.

I've never ridden a shimano but thats an advert for them right there..hope I get so.ething close from my bosch

 

[Mikerb]

So much angst about motor reliability! Every mechanical and electrical device can fail and sometimes that is due to a design fault but no manufacturer ignores identified component or design faults and modifies as required. Therefore a product that has been in production for a while is likely to have greatly improved reliability.
Even so if you use an Emtb some account needs to be taken that it has electronic components and that you can demand motor power to propel the weight of the bike plus rider merely by applying pressure to the cranks.
So what "special" treatment should you consider?
Most e bikes are adequately protected against mud dust and water when riding but care needs to be exercised when washing the bike not to get electrical components wet. So avoid pressure washers and even hose pipes and protect charging points. Dont leave the bike in a cold damp garage in winter. Follow advice on battrry care and charging. I go further by making some simple diy protectors for electrical components.
As far as the motor is concerned there are at least 3 common sense things to avoid. Total water immersion is the first. Whilst motors incorporate thermal cut offs they are mainly designed to protect the motor windings. That heat build up has to dissipate somewhere however and bearings and grease will take the brunt. So avoid overheating. This is most likely in hot ambient temperatures with prolonged use of high power modes. Lastly be aware of the work you are asking the motor to do. Demanding max output in a turbo mode when climbing but in a high gear will for example put a lot of pressure on the drive gears/clutch/belt of the motor. In general emtbs are better used with a higher cadence in all scenarios than an analogue mtb.

 

[Jimbojetset84]

......yes on a much less powerful and noisy motor.

But I’m not talking about the E8000 I’m talking about the new upcoming motor. With Brose being the power it is and Bosch now releasing their updates there is now way Shimano are not increasing power.

 

[Jimbojetset84]

I genuinely hope Shimano produce a really good new motor with more power, better software, better bearing protection, smaller and lighter and with bigger capacity batteries. There are few brands I really like that use the Shimano motor but they are less attractive using the existing E 8000.

Motor won’t apparently be smaller as announcements have already been made that it will fit into to same slot and fixing holes as the E8000. This is why bikes that use Shimano brand are already releasing 2021 bikes As they won’t have to change any design aspects of the bike to accommodate it they just sell the bike with a new motor when it’s released

 

[Moe Ped]

Motor won’t apparently be smaller as announcements have already been made that it will fit into to same slot and fixing holes as the E8000. This is why bikes that use Shimano brand are already releasing 2021 bikes As they won’t have to change any design aspects of the bike to accommodate it they just sell the bike with a new motor when it’s released

wow that’s really good to know, can you provide a link to the announcement?

 

[Mr CRUD]

One reason why my e-bikes run flawlessly might well be that I sponge-wash only, straight after every ride, and always keep them in my heated man-cave. A wet bike sat in a cold shed is a recipe for problems.

 

[Mikerb]

Motor won’t apparently be smaller as announcements have already been made that it will fit into to same slot and fixing holes as the E8000. This is why bikes that use Shimano brand are already releasing 2021 bikes As they won’t have to change any design aspects of the bike to accommodate it they just sell the bike with a new motor when it’s released

I read on another thread that it will be smaller whilst still having the same mounting. That said the benefits that can accrue from a smaller design relate to the position of the cranks, and the ability to shorten the chainstays....and even alter both the bb height and weight distribution. Some of those opportunities may be lost. I would be surprised if Shimano miss the opportunity to differentiate rather than merely catch up with Brose Bosch etc

 

[Mikerb]

One reason why my e-bikes run flawlessly might well be that I sponge-wash only, straight after every ride, and always keep them in my heated man-cave. A wet bike sat in a cold shed is a recipe for problems.

Yes....I only sponge wash as well. I keep my bike in the garage during the summer but as soon as it gets colder and damp I keep the bike in the house.

 

[HGmtb]

My car sits outside in the rain / cold / heat / or whatever, and never never doesn't start. But cars weren't always so reliable - back in the 60's getting water in the electrics could be quite problematic (and even more so with motorbikes), so perhaps that's where eMTBs are at in their development cycle now ?

 

[Mikerb]

My car sits outside in the rain / cold / heat / or whatever, and never never doesn't start. But cars weren't always so reliable - back in the 60's getting water in the electrics could be quite problematic (and even more so with motorbikes), so perhaps that's where eMTBs are at in their development cycle now ?

True although as any mechanic will tell you the majority of faults on modern cars are down to the electronics.
A good example of how things used to be was the Mini. They placed the distributor directly behind the front grill so when jt rained it got soaked. Commonplace to see Minis broken down in heavy rain.
Regardless of brand emtbs
electrical connections and components are not well protected from damp and water. They could take lessons from Marine waterproofing methods.

 

[Jimbojetset84]

I read on another thread that it will be smaller whilst still having the same mounting. That said the benefits that can accrue from a smaller design relate to the position of the cranks, and the ability to shorten the chainstays....and even alter both the bb height and weight distribution. Some of those opportunities may be lost. I would be surprised if Shimano miss the opportunity to differentiate rather than merely catch up with Brose Bosch etc

I’d be surprised. Although there is always the possibility. Exactly my point that they won’t just catch up so more power, better efficiency, less noise, or whatever other advancements are going to me made AND making smaller when it was already small in size and quite light is a big ask. I’m expecting same size and maybe same weight (or minimal weight difference) but more power and quieter and a few extra tweaks.