Levo Gen 3 Levo Gen 4 2023/4/5/6 Rumours...

[Phil M]

oopps sorry , master of marketing , didnt know i was on the apprentice just expressing an opinion , and btw imho i dont think that it will , most of the people that express an interest in buying an E bike that i talk to dont even mention power , all they are interested in is , how far and how long , i think that range is far more imprtant to people than power , unless you are Jeremy clarkson

I’m with you on this… my current Levo I rarely leave eco mode as I do big rides.

Odd occasion I might put it into trail or turbo but probably for 30 secs max.. I do not need more power at all. Give me an internal 900wh though!!

 

[emtbeast]

If I understand correctly, the power is reduced (at least on the LEVO SL) as soon as the battery reaches the 20% mark, regardless of whether it's the internal battery or the RE.
This means that if I use the RE first and then the internal battery, I go through the 20% limit twice and have the power loss twice. So it makes sense to use the batteries in parallel...

The power is reduced at a low charge at all systems to protect the cells that are at a low voltage at this point, I would be suspicious of a system that does not do this.
This is most probably the idea why the Bosch system works in parallel(dual mode).
If the batterys share the load, they heat up less(are more efficient) and so the whole system works more efficiently.

 

[mike172]

2025 Levo will have an ~850WH battery with an optional 250~300WH range extender. The battery will be modular and can be taken out from the side of the frame, allowing for quick swaps, there will also be no drag when running no battery. There will also be a 600WH option to save weight.

The normal models will come with 100NM of Torque. The S-works model will have 111NM of Torque.

The S-works will be priced around $18,000.

Release will be early to mid april.

This information all looks credible to me.

 

[claho]

It's optional as far as I know, and a range extender on it's own is really weak to consistently power a FF ebike. Probably the name 》range extender 《 says that it's not meant for trail riding, but to extend range, so more for the long days in the wilderness, at the end it's personal choice...

Broke the thread a bit with this back to the Levo shall we

Any leaks in sight

tbh i dont need more power , id buy a motor bike if that was the case ,more range would be my priority

...so, I don't think you've quite grasped the ‘eMTB concept’ yet. If your idea is to get as much battery capacity back home as possible and engine power doesn't matter, then that's a nice toy for you. But if you take the approach that the engine power represents the technical limit of what can be achieved uphill, then your statement that ‘you don't need more powerful engines’ is incomprehensible.
I think both approaches are legitimate – but to say that you don't need more engine power seems amateurish to me...

 

[Bermo EMTB]

no i think youre missing the point ,amateurish pmsl , you are right i dont get paid to ride my bike , do you ?? my point is I DONT NEED ANY MORE POWER to get up the terrain that i use around here , and tbh there wont be many steeper climbs around the country , what there is out there is ample , if you need more power buy a motor bike , i would prefer more range , but to say you need more power to me is pointless because there comes a point where it becomes unusable. you arent Jeremy Clarkson , are you ??? ohhh i love a good debate !!

 

[lar1337]

...so, I don't think you've quite grasped the ‘eMTB concept’ yet. If your idea is to get as much battery capacity back home as possible and engine power doesn't matter, then that's a nice toy for you. But if you take the approach that the engine power represents the technical limit of what can be achieved uphill, then your statement that ‘you don't need more powerful engines’ is incomprehensible.
I think both approaches are legitimate – but to say that you don't need more engine power seems amateurish to me...

With skill 85nm is plenty

 

[claho]

With skill 85nm is plenty

View attachment 153961

you're right!

 

[lar1337]

I still love the tech and new stuff so not against more of anything TBF

 

[head]

I think both approaches are legitimate – but to say that you don't need more engine power seems amateurish to me...

1st, it's not an engine; it's a motor.
2nd, calling someone amateurish just because they don't want (need) more power seems condescending to me.

 

[Murch]

It’s always interesting when people assume that because something works for them, it should work for everyone. We all ride for different reasons, and what I value in an e-bike might be different from what you prioritize. More power might not matter to you, but that doesn’t mean it’s pointless for others. And while skill is important, dismissing power as unnecessary overlooks the fact that different riders, terrains, and riding styles can all benefit from it in their own ways.

 

[ckkone]

It’s always interesting when people assume that because something works for them, it should work for everyone.

This why so many people like the Rail+ and Levo, they are jack of all trade bikes but master of none.

All the top bikes will have triple digit Nm, even the Gen5 Bosch after its next software update and new sceen release.

 

[Tooks]

I think this forum struggles between ‘E-MounTain Bike’ and ‘E-MoTor Bike’ at times.

I don’t care if some people want ever higher power EMTBs, but I don’t want every major new release to be the result of some kind of power arms race.

There’s more to mountain biking (even the e-type) than power.

 

[Murch]

Well for the past year it’s been all about SL type bikes so the cycle now is switching to full bikes.

 

[Harold]

Well for the past year it’s been all about SL type bikes so the cycle now is switching to full bikes.

Too bad NM and watts became (again) the main marketing/selling factors, super light ebike with subtle assist motor are just , to me should I precise!

 

[mustclime]

Had a buddy get a mid power Mtb, our group set up a ride that went up a bunch wall climbs that are no problem with full power bikes. My buddy was not amused

 

[AussieRuss]

I think this forum struggles between ‘E-MounTain Bike’ and ‘E-MoTor Bike’ at times.

I don’t care if some people want ever higher power EMTBs, but I don’t want every major new release to be the result of some kind of power arms race.

There’s more to mountain biking (even the e-type) than power.

Not sure why anyone would expect the goal for motocross racing would be any different from the goal of E-Enduro series. Create the most powerful & efficient /best handling bike within the 250 watt nominal power range to help the rider win a title & sell bikes on Monday.

 

[Tooks]

Not sure why anyone would expect the goal for motocross racing would be any different from the goal of E-Enduro series. Create the most powerful & efficient /best handling bike within the 250 watt nominal power range to help the rider win a title & sell bikes on Monday.

The majority of people don’t race, I’m guessing a lot don’t even watch it (even if you can find somewhere that’s broadcasting it) so not sure how it drives pedal cycle sales.

If that is how it works for a handful of riders/customers, then no wonder so many bike companies are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.

We ride pedal bicycles at the end of the day, I’d rather the focus was on reliability, repairability and rideability rather than just power/torque.

I hope that the Gen4 Levo ends up addressing those factors rather than chasing a power headline.

 

[Polar]

Who needs a Porsche or Tesla with all the torque or an ebike some call over torqued I guess the reason is controlling the ebike and not necessarily use all the power all the time but as with cars massive power can in some situations be a lifesaver.

 

[Biano44]

The majority of people don’t race, I’m guessing a lot don’t even watch it (even if you can find somewhere that’s broadcasting it) so not sure how it drives pedal cycle sales.

If that is how it works for a handful of riders/customers, then no wonder so many bike companies are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.

We ride pedal bicycles at the end of the day, I’d rather the focus was on reliability, repairability and rideability rather than just power/torque.

I hope that the Gen4 Levo ends up addressing those factors rather than chasing a power headline.

“We ride pedal bicycles at the end of the day, I’d rather the focus was on reliability, repairability and rideability”

That’s quite a list……you may as well add power/torque to it.

From my experience, not one motor manufacturer has nailed reliability as yet, ‘service’ by Specialized dealers at least seems top draw; So power is the only metric to achieve that will make them market leaders again.
Without it, they will always have competition.

Honestly, something they haven’t really had to worry about for years.

 

[Tooks]

From my experience, not one motor manufacturer has nailed reliability as yet, ‘service’ by Specialized dealers at least seems top draw; So power is the only metric to achieve that will make them market leaders again.
Without it, they will always have competition.

Power shouldn’t be the ‘only’ metric, a bike is a sum of its parts.

Power is the only metric if that’s the only thing important to you.

I might be unusual here, but competition is exactly what we want, but again that’s about way more than just a peak power figure.

 

[AussieRuss]

Power shouldn’t be the ‘only’ metric, a bike is a sum of its parts.

Power is the only metric if that’s the only thing important to you.

I might be unusual here, but competition is exactly what we want, but again that’s about way more than just a peak power figure.

Power/ torque needs to be a somewhat level playing field though.
As an example I have been on group ride where most are on full fat bikes & one was on a fuel exe. At the end of the ride he was partly cooked trying to keep up & partly cooked due to reduced suspension which gave him a harder ride compared to the full fat bikes.

We had a rider down a while ago on another ride after a bad fall & an Amflow rider & myself raced to meet an ambulance who was entering the trail head. The Amflow left my Levo back in the dust due to the power/torque difference. I don’t know where it ends but on group rides a power equality is no different to someone on an SL vs everyone else on a full power bike if everything else is equal. Not doubt we will see a torque cap placed at some stage

 

[Tooks]

Power/ torque needs to be a somewhat level playing field though.
As an example I have been on group ride where most are on full fat bikes & one was on a fuel exe. At the end of the ride he was partly cooked trying to keep up & partly cooked due to reduced suspension which gave him a harder ride compared to the full fat bikes.

We had a rider down a while ago on another ride after a bad fall & an Amflow rider & myself raced to meet an ambulance who was entering the trail head. The Amflow left my Levo back in the dust due to the power/torque difference. I don’t know where it ends but on group rides a power equality is no different to someone on an SL vs everyone else on a full power bike if everything else is equal. Not doubt we will see a torque cap placed at some stage

Yeah, in that scenario I can see why everybody being on equal bikes is a thing. Like a lot of people I ride alone or in a small group where it’s less of an issue one being faster than another.

Hope your mate made a quick recovery and wasn’t too broken.

 

[gbcoke]

A power race can be extremely problematic for the bike industry looking long term. Most riders will not be able to control a high torque/power bike when tech climbing or something similar and when accidents and insurance claims start piling up, it could cause a lot of issues to the industry (we are not the motor bike or car industry unfortunately).
Also, a lot of components are still not up to the task of handling high torque motors (chains,hubs,tires...).
Lastly, battery consumption suffers when you have a lot of power.
I think 85/90nm and 600w+- peak power is more than enough for most situations .

 

[Biano44]

A power race can be extremely problematic for the bike industry looking long term. Most riders will not be able to control a high torque/power bike when tech climbing or something similar and when accidents and insurance claims start piling up, it could cause a lot of issues to the industry (we are not the motor bike or car industry unfortunately).
Also, a lot of components are still not up to the task of handling high torque motors (chains,hubs,tires...).
Lastly, battery consumption suffers when you have a lot of power.
I think 85/90nm and 600w+- peak power is more than enough for most situations .

“A power race can be extremely problematic for the bike industry looking long term. Most riders will not be able to control a high torque/power bike when tech climbing or something similar and when accidents and insurance claims start piling up, it could cause a lot of issues to the industry”

Absolute nonsense.

As a grown up human, you are responsible for yourself and should ride to your skill level.
Anybody can ride any bike above their skill level, have a crash, it’s never the responsibility of the bike or brake manufacturer.

 

[head]

This thread is not fun anymore.

 

[Bermo EMTB]

when it becomes a serious discussion you just bail ??? if you dont like it move on , nobody is asking you to take part

 

[Pyr0]

I hope it doesn't have a side loading battery.

 

[lar1337]

please tell me you arent a snowflake , ie: when it becomes a serious discussion you just bail ???

Serious!

 

[lar1337]

It's just dull listening to a load of grumpy old tits bickering and talking bolloxs

 

[gbcoke]

“A power race can be extremely problematic for the bike industry looking long term. Most riders will not be able to control a high torque/power bike when tech climbing or something similar and when accidents and insurance claims start piling up, it could cause a lot of issues to the industry”

Absolute nonsense.

As a grown up human, you are responsible for yourself and should ride to your skill level.
Anybody can ride any bike above their skill level, have a crash, it’s never the responsibility of the bike or brake manufacturer.

You are right,in theory!
Who's to "blame* or responsible won't matter to the one's in charge of regulations if there will be a lot of accidents and negative name to the emtb market.
There is a lot of fear among bike brands and motor manufacturers from emtb branded as a dangerous sport.That could have really bad effect on the industry.