Let’s Be Careful Out There - Cannock Chase Mugging

[Janc]

I only took it to deter the dog.

The oddest thing I take with me on a regular basis is a folding saw.
Highlander Wolverine Folding Saw Green
I have a legitimate reason for carrying it, but given the subject matter of this thread, it is not a quick draw device as it is in my backpack.

I have a mate that regularly carries one of those small folding saws for trail debris clearance. One year he was flying to Greece and taking his bike - he had his bike rucksack as hand luggage and hadn't repacked it! His bag was seized at security and he was marched to a little room. One member of the travelling group was in charge of the IT for that same airport. The IT companion didn't step in as a character reference or acknowledge he knew him! Amazingly the police accepted the guy's his story and he made his flight!

 

[carlbiker]

Not sure on the tracking option, so you get mugged and ‘release’ the bike, so what next? You suddenly cry yourself to sleep and wake up a vigilante and go ‘retrieve’ your loved one?

Police won’t even goto the address you have as they will just say they have tried before and ended up with the wrong address xyz so most likely won’t even try to help…

insurance is the best bet all round but we will have to pay a lot for it

 

[MrMarzocchi]

rape alarm? That’s all you can have under section 5

You can get ink spray which is legal. You spray it in people's faces and it stains the fuck outta them.

It's called Safehaus Mini Criminal Identifier spray

 

[MrMarzocchi]

I insure my eBike (£3300) with CyclePlan in the UK. £17 a month. Which is nothing. I've had bikes stolen off me by 20 guys growing up and it stopped me riding for 17 years, that won't be happening again.

 

[Pyr0]

You can get ink spray which is legal. You spray it in people's faces and it stains the fuck outta them.

It's called Safehaus Mini Criminal Identifier spray

Not sure that's actually legal. I think you can be done for assault if you use it on someone in the uk
I tried looking into those a few months ago

 

[Coolcmsc]

Not sure that's actually legal. I think you can be done for assault if you use it on someone in the uk
I tried looking into those a few months ago

Yes, without a third party witness supporting the truth — preferably independent plus on your GoPro from the beginning — this would be a problem. Especially as the evidence, if the spray worked and they didn’t take your bike, would be poor for theft and excellent for assault by spray paint — ?

Effing world we live in… My neighbour got done for assault when he hoiked out from the back seat of his car the coked-up and now downer downed sleeping joy rider who’d stolen it.. Confused? The stoner was so off his veritable that he’d driven the car back after said ride to outside my neighbours house. His mates ran, but he crashed out in the back where my neighbour found him when he noticed the car was back an hour later ? …. Coke-boy woke up a bit more when the cops arrived shortly after whereupon he accused my neighbour of assault and was let go, whilst my neighbour was cautioned and taken down the nick. In all fairness, mr cokehead had gained a big cut on his cheek through some completely mysterious process — ???— Anyway, my neighbour was then let off once they worked out the stoner had given a false name and address….

 

[smtkelly]

Not sure that's actually legal. I think you can be done for assault if you use it on someone in the uk
I tried looking into those a few months ago

Even squirting some one with a garden hose/water bottle can be considered assault. It sucks, just remember 99% of these things it's your word against theirs best to choose your words very carefully when giving a description to the police, or you could find yourself admitting to an offence ?‍

Anyway I'm sure theres is at least one policeman/laywer on this forum who could chime in, but the fact they haven't probably means something.

 

[steve_sordy]

..........................'

Effing world we live in… My neighbour got done for assault when he hoiked out from the back seat of his car the coked-up and now downer downed sleeping joy rider who’d stolen it.. Confused? The stoner was so off his veritable that he’d driven the car back after said ride to outside my neighbours house. His mates ran, but he crashed out in the back where my neighbour found him when he noticed the car was back an hour later ? …. Coke-boy woke up a bit more when the cops arrived shortly after whereupon he accused my neighbour of assault and was let go, whilst my neighbour was cautioned and taken down the nick. In all fairness, mr cokehead had gained a big cut on his cheek through some completely mysterious process — ???— Anyway, my neighbour was then let off once they worked out the stoner had given a false name and address….

Ref my post#10 about the Police. It is much easier for them to take a law abiding citizen into custody than a coked up druggie who might throw up or even die in his cell.
Believe it or not I am a supporter of the Police; the ones I have met so far (even that traffic cop doing me for speeding) were all decent people just doing their job. But the last member of the Police that I actually met and spoke to was in 1994 (the traffic cop). I do not recognise the Police force (sorry, Police "Service") that I see today.

 

[Coolcmsc]

Believe it or not I am a supporter of the Police;

This is important. I’m a supporter of the police too. A close relative is a copper. I strongly support them and the service they do their best to provide in a changing country (U.K.). My collar’s been felt for a driving offence (traffic lights) and I couldn’t complain.
My point reporting my neighbour’s experience had only a peripheral relationship to the choices made by the police.
It was all about the impulsive and completely understandable (doomed) choices made by my neighbour.
Most importantly, my neighbour understood what was going on and why. The inevitability of what was about to happen to him and how had no mitigating effect on his decision making. And so, despite knowing that, he went ahead an opened the car door — after all, he’d already called the police. Despite any sense of justice it may have given him, he regretted whatever circumstance had led to that cut. He knew his mistake was to go near his car. He told me he should have ignored his profound emotional impulse to open the back door.
And that’s why I brought the storey here.
I expect most know that the way the law in England and Wales is interpreted for the potential prosecution of those arrested for a crime, is a matter for the Crown Prosecution Service which centres around the concept of ‘public interest’, as interpreted by that service. No public interest = no prosecution. And by the way, that’s in addition to however compelling the evidence for the crime. In Scotland, the law is a bit different and how alleged criminals are taken to court is different too — Google Procurator Fiscal. I don’t know about Northern Ireland.
But this thread concerns Cannock (that’s in England for those from elsewhere).

 

[blueglide]

Even squirting some one with a garden hose/water bottle can be considered assault. It sucks, just remember 99% of these things it's your word against theirs best to choose your words very carefully when giving a description to the police, or you could find yourself admitting to an offence ?‍

Anyway I'm sure theres is at least one policeman/laywer on this forum who could chime in, but the fact they haven't probably means something.

I'm a retired LEO (30 years) but I live in the States. The laws across the 'pond are so effed up I don't know how you stand it. While we certainly have our faults here in the States the idea of self defense and protecting one's life and property is so deeply ingrained in our culture/history that hearing you guys talk about squirt guns, garden hoses, and yelling rape, is completely alien to me.

 

[Tubby G]

A totally irrelevant story but kind of in keeping with this thread, a mate of mine was charged with criminal assault for emptying a bottle of tomato ketchup over an aggressive teenagers head

The aggressive teenager was a random stranger that squared up to my mate over something silly like bumping into him as he walked past. It was at a service station. The teenager was right in his face, shouting & swearing, saying he’d kick the shit out of him outside blah bah blah. Rather than knock him out, the bottle of tomato sauce was to hand and quickly emptied over his head to embarrass the little scrote in front of his chavvy gang of pre-pubescent wannabe gangsters

The teenagers then departed, but not long after the police arrived and the tomato ketchup assault was documented!

 

[Norange]

I'm a retired LEO (30 years) but I live in the States. The laws across the 'pond are so effed up I don't know how you stand it. While we certainly have our faults here in the States the idea of self defense and protecting one's life and property is so deeply ingrained in our culture/history that hearing you guys talk about squirt guns, garden hoses, and yelling rape, is completely alien to me.

It's a sliding scale no doubt. Over here, proportional self defence is fine in the eyes of the law. Think i'm ok with that, not sure i'd be comfortable in a society where i felt i needed a weapon to protect myself. But it's easy for me to say that now i live in a ridiculously low crime area.

 

[LowStandards]

I'd rather the odd bike goes missing than a school shooting every other week


'Murica!!!!!!!!!

 

[blueglide]

It's a sliding scale no doubt. Over here, proportional self defence is fine in the eyes of the law. Think i'm ok with that, not sure i'd be comfortable in a society where i felt i needed a weapon to protect myself. But it's easy for me to say that now i live in a ridiculously low crime area.

Over here we have the freedom to make choices about how best to protect ourselves and loved ones. No one is forced to go armed and honestly most people don't and there's not a need in most cases. But at least we have options that don't rely on a police response that may be a long time coming in some cases. And I say that as a retired cop. Ultimately, every person is responsible for themselves and that's the way it should be. History has abundant examples of those who have surrendered their care to 'benevolent masters' and that never works out well. I saw many times in my career a well prepared and sometimes armed individual save themselves or family from the predators out there who have no care for laws or a civilized society. Also, never forget the media portrayal of the US is carefully crafted to scare people, sell ads, and make one believe that everyone over here is a gun carrying fanatic or a criminal, they are not. Control the media and you control the populace. I rarely carry my gun anymore and that was after carrying one everyday for 30 years.

 

[blueglide]

I'd rather the odd bike goes missing than a school shooting every other week


'Murica!!!!!!!!!

That was dumb!

 

[Norange]

Over here we have the freedom to make choices about how best to protect ourselves and loved ones. No one is forced to go armed and honestly most people don't and there's not a need in most cases. But at least we have options that don't rely on a police response that may be a long time coming in some cases. And I say that as a retired cop. Ultimately, every person is responsible for themselves and that's the way it should be. History has abundant examples of those who have surrendered their care to 'benevolent masters' and that never works out well. I saw many times in my career a well prepared and sometimes armed individual save themselves or family from the predators out there who have no care for laws or a civilized society. Also, never forget the media portrayal of the US is carefully crafted to scare people, sell ads, and make one believe that everyone over here is a gun carrying fanatic or a criminal, they are not. Control the media and you control the populace. I rarely carry my gun anymore and that was after carrying one everyday for 30 years.

I'd say you have more freedom, yes. We would probably disagree on the balance of personal responsibility vs societal regulation I guess the cultures are different enough that neither approach fits the other society well. Just honestly cannot wrap my head around being able to shoot someone for trying to take my stuff.

 

[blueglide]

I'd say you have more freedom, yes. We would probably disagree on the balance of personal responsibility vs societal regulation I guess the cultures are different enough that neither approach fits the other society well. Just honestly cannot wrap my head around being able to shoot someone for trying to take my stuff.

I could drink a beer with you. ?

 

[MrMarzocchi]

Not sure that's actually legal. I think you can be done for assault if you use it on someone in the uk
I tried looking into those a few months ago

If you're spraying random people but not attackers

I think it's mad how the police can use pepper spray to defend themselves but the public aren't allowed. Leaves them powerless

 

[Norange]

If you're spraying random people but not attackers

I think it's mad how the police can use pepper spray to defend themselves but the public aren't allowed. Leaves them powerless

Police are more likely to be assaulted and will be trained on when to use it, no?

 

[Mike D.]

Take off and nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[MrMarzocchi]

Police are more likely to be assaulted and will be trained on when to use it, no?

Yeah but it still doesn't diminish the chances of the public being assaulted / attacked. It can't be that hard to use either

 

[Dustjunky]

Wouldn’t it be easy for the manufacturers of the e bikes to make it so you have to put a code in to activate the motor ?

 

[Dustjunky]

I hope no one try’s to steal my bike……..I don’t want to go to prison.

Same here mate …

 

[Labrador29]

@JetSedgwick In the American movies that we see in the UK, the police always turn out in force for just about anything. Never less than two armed officers for even a noise complaint! In the UK, you can get high definition CCTV evidence of the perpetrators, car number plates etc and all you get is a crime number so that you can lodge a claim with your insurance company. Yet they never seem to be lacking in numbers for "hate crimes" which in this country can be perceived as one, therefore they are one; even if they do not meet the legal definition of an actual crime. It appears that anything "woke" is OK, even violent protests. For example the mob in Bristol that demolished and defaced a statue and tipped it in the river, were not hindered by the police who were in attendance.

Goodness me. Sounds like New Zealand Steve!

 

[Underblu]

I'd say you have more freedom, yes. We would probably disagree on the balance of personal responsibility vs societal regulation I guess the cultures are different enough that neither approach fits the other society well. Just honestly cannot wrap my head around being able to shoot someone for trying to take my stuff.

You’re not allowed to shoot someone for trying to take your stuff in the US.

Unfortunately, someone attempting to take your stuff can often result in violence against you. Being able to protect yourself and your loved ones from violence that could result in maming or death should be an inalienable right.

There is a balance, but banning even a non lethal deterrent like pepper spray that might give those most at risk a chance to avoid serious physical and emotional harm tells me that balance is way off.

 

[Labrador29]

Not sure that's actually legal. I think you can be done for assault if you use it on someone in the uk
I tried looking into those a few months ago

Personally mate, I wouldn't give a tuppenny toss, I would let the scumbag have it, and if the local police aren't happy with it and charge me, I would be quite happy to defend myself in Court. The worst that could happen in New Zealand is I would get a harsh Judge and get slapped with a wet bus ticket.

 

[LowStandards]

The heroes are out again

 

[Labrador29]

While this can't be prevented, cops do nothing and perhaps insurance does cover it... the main point is to catch these thieving wankers!

The best option would be a tracker chip if they didn't cost so much to keep it tracked. Since it's 24/7 there's a monthly charge and it's just not worth it for most people. Last time I was looking, those services cost £20+ per month to keep tracking it, on the off chance your bike gets stolen, which most don't.

It's a shame people have to pay through the nose for these things. If tracker chips were something like £30 for the initial chip and £5 per month to track it, that would be more like it, but it costs way more. Also then the company knows where you're going on your bike, which some people might not like the idea of.

EDIT: Oh there's ones where you can track it with your own phone. These are £80+, stick out like a sore thumb and have a subscription charge (one I saw was cheap, £12 a year). I guess if that can be 100% concealed like the ones that fit inside the end of your handlebar, it might be worth it but £80 buys so many other bike parts that actually serve a purpose. If your bike never gets stolen (and most don't) it's just a waste of money isn't it.



What happens when the prosecution brings up the point that a vast majority of people that also had a bad upbringing aren't going around killing people?

It is only used by the Defence at sentencing. Prosecution don't have much say after they suggest an appropriate sentence. Defence can say what they like in mitigation even though it is complete bullshit

 

[Coolcmsc]

The worst that could happen in New Zealand is I would get a harsh Judge and get slapped with a wet bus ticket.

That maybe because of whatever job you have…. In the event of a criminal conviction for bashing somebody, however lame the sentence, some of us would be fired, loose our professional qualification and be unable to work in the profession (employer and regulatory authority immediately informed by courts). This is also true in NZ where I’ve worked.
That doesn’t make me feel better… no, not one tiny little bit….. but it does mean that some have a trickier decision than you imply, even in NZ, when considering lashing out because their bike’s being stolen.

 

[Norange]

You’re not allowed to shoot someone for trying to take your stuff in the US.

In some states you are as I understand. If pepper spray was legal, chances are you'd be pepper sprayed then assaulted before your bike was stolen