Just say no to integrated batteries

[Eddy Current]

What the integrated batteries benefits are aside pure cosmetic?

They increase weight, they increase gravity center, you have to take the whole bike to charge it, they are most expensive to replace ...

Look the new Overvolt, is still beatifull and from what eye can tell it could be fitted even lower. 46 pounds carbon fiber, I’m sure it can be down to the sub20 grial or maybe it’s not that necessary with improved weight distribution

Canyon ebikes are a light nimble cheap machines and I’m sure is thanks to the external battery, and so are the Vitus

Maybe the difficult to set horst links is the main (huge) downside, is that? what else I’m missing?

So, what do you people think, are we riders or posers? Bring back some of those external batteries

 

[towzer]

My reqts are that I can remove battery to transport bike on motorhome, that I can take battery into hotels/b&b etc to recharge overnight and can keep it out of the cold in winter - much easier if you can quickly and easily pop the battery out. for commuting I think it would help as well -recharge in office and nicking an ebike without a battery is maybe a bit less desirable

given that batteries currently weigh so much and that I don’t always go for a high battery usage ride I’m not really liking the current go big (and heavy) battery trend, if we could get a 2 part 750 or so that you could use as a single 375

focus was nearly this with the tech pack but the main battery is totally non removable

 

[CjP]

- I think external batteries aren’t great looking and yes that is important.
- I have never had an issue taking out an internal battery either, for charging or working on the bike.
- They are more secure unlike the external ones which eventually start to rattle around due to how they’re mounted.
- Centre of gravity? Really? you guys can honestly say that makes a difference worth discussing?
I have ridden a few different types of ebikes and I haven’t noticed any difference with battery location.
That’s my experiences anyway.
?

 

[Eddy Current]

- I think external batteries aren’t great looking and yes that is important.
- I have never had an issue taking out an internal battery either, for charging or working on the bike.
- They are more secure unlike the external ones which eventually start to rattle around due to how they’re mounted.
- Centre of gravity? Really? you guys can honestly say that makes a difference worth discussing?
I have ridden a few different types of ebikes and I haven’t noticed any difference with battery location.
That’s my experiences anyway.
?

ok this guy beat me up, close the thread

 

[Eddy Current]

Ok now check

And compare (sorry spe )

I think this is enough noticeable even at moderate speeds

 

[CjP]

Hahaha no I like threads like this, I enjoy sharing different opinions.
With the Bumblebee bike that location might actually make a slight difference in feel. Unfortunately it also looks like that would cop a shit load of mud and dust in there.
Imagine taking that out to charge or work on the bike and crap dropping onto the terminals?? ?
Then there’s the fact you can’t have a water bottle in there.

 

[Eddy Current]

Hahaha no I like threads like this, I enjoy sharing different opinions.
With the Bumblebee bike that location might actually make a slight difference in feel. Unfortunately it also looks like that would cop a shit load of mud and dust in there.
Imagine taking that out to charge or work on the bike and crap dropping onto the terminals?? ?
Then there’s the fact you can’t have a water bottle in there.

Yes the bottle fact is true but since I use backpack is not a problem for me

This guy still beat me up and he didn’t throw the best shoot (Horst link)

Im almost KO somebody help me

 

[wepn]

we could get a 2 part 750 or so that you could use as a single 375

I totally agree. Definitely stackable, but also integrated and at the same time easily removable would be my preference.

In terms of differences between semi-integrated & fully integrated, I see semi-integrated as a compromise - both in cost of production and aesthetics. The same can be achieved with an integrated design if the battery is just as easily removed.

Im almost KO somebody help me

OK depending on the orientation of the pack, I would say lower COG may be possible but really only makes a huge difference with a heavier battery. Not so much with say a 500 Wh pack but still noticeable. Other than that on the plus side for semi-integrated

 

[SquireRides]

Benefit of internal battery: You can add an external battery!

See, the new Orbea and Haibikes.

I'm excited by the idea of 625Wh in the tube with the option to add 500Wh on the frame.

 

[outerlimits]

Ok now check

And compare (sorry spe )

I think this is enough noticeable even at moderate speeds

That Lappy ?
Looks like it has done a shit in its pants. Does it also come with a colostomy bag, as there is no where to put a water bottle. The in frame battery in my Levo suits me. Easy to remove if I wish, and it looks sexy AF, and has room for a water bottle. Guess if you want to scream, look at me, I got a ebike then the Lappy might be ok,.. looks shit tho ?‍

 

[Doomanic]

@Eddy Current, fixed your pics for you...

Ok now check

And compare

I think this is enough noticeable even at moderate speeds

 

[Jamsxr]

Luckily there are plenty of options for both internal and external. For me, at the moment, external definitely works better, plus you get more bang for your buck. For me component set and value was more important than looks - people hardly notice when you’re shredding along!

If I’ve got a bigger (estate) car and a decent garage within the next year or two I won’t be so bothered.

 

[Zimmerframe]

In terms of "external" I personally feel Shimano bikes quite often have the edge on design. The battery is often partially sunk into the frame shape and "integrates" nicely. The advantages are obvious, you can remove it quickly and easily (if you have your key, if you don't, it might as well be welded in there)

Thok mounted it on the underside and did a really nice job of incorporating it and making an attractive bike. Yes, people do want their bike to be attractive. You've just used the Lapierre as an example - it's attractive (though not to everyone).

External can look ugly thought

Or interesting ..

Internal can take longer to remove, but some, like spesh, just slide out of the bottom, or the older ones just drop out and are basically no different to an "external" battery except the design of the battery was thought about when designing the bike. Most external battery solutions just provide a cheap and simple way for someone to develop an emtb and sadly sometimes the design can be quite compromised ..

Internal is just neater and arguably affords the battery more protection in case of accidents.

 

[outerlimits]

Hey @Eddy Current, I did find the perfect Trail Duck to go on the handlebars of that Lappy.... ?‍

 

[Fivetones]

Interesting thread. I must admit something should look ‘right’ and sometimes internal does that, sometimes external does.

1. If you did a proper analysis on the two examples you use I’d be willing to bet the Levo has a lower CoG.
2. As already pointed out a modular battery (say 300wh) would be ideal for lighter riders (which I’d bet is a market that opens out as eMTB riders get younger) and would allow better weight distribution and possible for putting in a pack.
3. I think the currently reality is that design has frozen for the moment. We need smaller lighter motors, better energy density for batteries, integrated gearboxes. All we’re seeing is variations now on the same theme for 2020 bikes.

 

[steve_sordy]

If the bike doesn't look right, I'm not buying it, end of. That is the first hurdle of many.

Buying my first emtb was a big step for me, I didn't know anyone that had one, none of my riding buddies had one, so I was going to be out there on my own (until I found this website ).

My first requirement was for the bike to look good. Then I tested 8 bikes and found the Focus. It not only looks good (IMO), but it was the first emtb I rode where I just enjoyed the ride without having to think about what mode I was in, or needed to be in, or how noisy it was, or even why had the motor noise stopped? I freely admit I was a complete newbie to ebikes, but I still knew how to ride an mtb and I still had some aesthetic sensibility left.

Going for a smaller battery allowed Focus to hide it completely, make the bike lighter, make it stronger (and therefore lighter again), and also allowed Focus to make a nice looking bike. When I showed the Focus to one of my mates, it took him a while to suddenly realise that it was an emtb! He loved it, but can't afford one. He will get first refusal when I come to sell it.

 

[RedTed]

Slightly biased as a Trek owner but I do like the way the battery integrates into the side of the frame on my FS7. Commuted into work the other day and it was obviously a talking point, everyone asked where the battery was.. Not without its faults and I've already had a slight warranty issue with the locking mech, but since then all good. Some muck does get into the battery recess but then again at the moment wherever I ride is just a pure mudfest. I just let it dry then brush it out.

For me I prefer to detach the battery and keep / charge indoors, it was one of the reasons I eventually went with the Trek instead of a Focus, just wasn't keen on the smaller fully integrated battery.

 

[CjP]

I totally agree. Definitely stackable, but also integrated and at the same time easily removable would be my preference.

In terms of differences between semi-integrated & fully integrated, I see semi-integrated as a compromise - both in cost of production and aesthetics. The same can be achieved with an integrated design if the battery is just as easily removed.


OK depending on the orientation of the pack, I would say lower COG may be possible but really only makes a huge difference with a heavier battery. Not so much with say a 500 Wh pack but still noticeable. Other than that on the plus side for semi-integrated

No one likes a semi...

Benefit of internal battery: You can add an external battery!

This is the only time an external battery is a good idea

Also who’s taking their batteries off in a hurry?
FYI I have 3 SWAT tools on my bike at any given time, so I can get my massive heavy integrated 700w battery out in under 30sec

 

[Zimmerframe]

No one likes a semi...

This is the only time an external battery is a good idea

Also who’s taking their batteries off in a hurry?
FYI I have 3 SWAT tools on my bike at any given time, so I can get my massive heavy integrated 700w battery out in under 30sec

I'm totally lost with this post on what points are about batteries and what parts are innuendo ..

 

[CjP]

I'm totally lost with this post on what points are about batteries and what parts are innuendo ..

Lol every time I read it it gets funnier

 

[Eckythump]

He will get first refusal when I come to sell it.

Maybe he’d like to buy mine and you can enjoy the experience together??

 

[outerlimits]

I actually like the intergration of the Battery in my Levo. It means I can stash things in its gash. Tucked up in the top tube above the battery I have tyre levers and a spare tube, as well as a few zip ties, incase I have to tie my shoes to my pedals like @Zimmerframe does ?

 

[ggx]

It´s up to your tast /requirements.
Don´t like Licra but sometimes I use it

 

[CjP]

Lycra on men should banned, like external batteries no one wants to see your bulge

 

[ggx]

Lycra on men should banned, like external batteries no one wants to see your bulge

 

[Jamsxr]

If you’re that bothered about looking good buy an MTB ??

 

[wepn]

Lycra on men should banned, like external batteries no one wants to see your bulge

Isn't that why budgie smugglers were banned or was there some other reason?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Isn't that why budgie smugglers were banned or was there some other reason?

You've got to credit you aussies, carrying a spare pair/thong combination on your heads !

One of Frances strangest rules is that you have to, by law, wear budgie smugglers if you go in a public swimming pool ! This obviously puts a lot of people off. I have a friend who's somewhere in the 150kg + range .. (his nickname is "the twins") They wouldn't make any exceptions. What sick puppy came up with that rule !

 

[CjP]

You've got to credit you aussies, carrying a spare pair/thong combination on your heads !

One of Frances strangest rules is that you have to, by law, wear budgie smugglers if you go in a public swimming pool ! This obviously puts a lot of people off. I have a friend who's somewhere in the 150kg + range .. (his nickname is "the twins") They wouldn't make any exceptions. What sick puppy came up with that rule !

That is a disgusting rule!
Your men love kissing cheeks instead of handshakes, now this.
Why? Just why??

 

[eebit]

Yea, you are 100% right. The trouble is the majorty of people are still buying bikes based on looks, and most people think integrated batteries look better. Manufacturers are having a hard time selling bikes with external batteries anymore.

There are other additional downsides to Integrated batteries too, such as more expensive and complicated construction, problems with heat dissipation, and basically that you have to scale up the rest of the bike to avoid it looking like a snake that swallowed a pig, so weight ends up increasing everywhere.